Recruiting vs production

[sct1111]

You guys do realize that Flood was one of the major recruiters when Schiano was head coach right? He was pretty instrumental at getting those 2011 and 2012 classes. I think one of the major reasons they hired Flood was he recruited a lot of the bigger time recruits.

I don't know though ever since the 2014 class debacle, he can't seem to land any blue chip classes. He's very good at finding under the radar guys but the way he's been recruiting our home state has been unacceptable. Even Gerry DiNardo tweeted today that Rutgers could easily be competitive with the top of the Big Ten if we could just recruit our state like the top programs do.

 

[vkj91]

Originally posted by RUTGERZ_R00LZWeren't the large majority of players in these games Schiano recruits? I don't thinks so. Anyway in my post which had those scores, I was responding to the OP's listing of the Flood recruits that will return for this year -- those same recruits who allowed those beatdowns. Here's the OPs list.

Rushing: 4 top rushers all Flood recruits
Passing: obviously Nova and jury is out going forward but i you are a star gazer Rettig should make you excited.
Receiving: 3 of 5 were Flood recruits
Punt returns: all Flood recruits
KO returns: all Flood recruits
Interceptions: 2 of 3 Flood recruits
All purpose yards: 7 of 8 Flood recruits
Scoring: 2 of 3 were Flood recruits(did not include kicker)
total offense: 5 of 6 Flood recruits

Where did I say they would win the conference? Far cry from that and setting team back 10 years which was the mantra last year.

 

[vkj91]

Originally posted by rutgersdave:
Why did you start this thread? No one was complaining recently unless it was discussed on the paid site.

I accept our fate just like Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Maryland and Iowa fans. Why don't the rest of the fans accept our situation? The other teams don't get excited whether they win or lose. We might beat Penn State or Michigan this year but we will be considered heavy underdog. With Michigan already having 3 4 star QB recuits and most recruits being 4 stars. I don't expect to beat them in the future. Ihope we can stay with Penn State but unlikely unless there coach really sucks. We will battle Maryland for fifth place in the Big Ten East in most years. It is what it is.

If we get lucky, with some major changes we might be able to change things just like Duke becoming a winner or Texas A& M becoming a winner recently in 7-15 years.

This post was edited on 4/14 2:05 PM by rutgersdave

Why did I star this thread? Lol. Thought this was where we came to discuss football and specifically RU. My bad.....
accept our fate? Yea, would suck to be like Iowa has been over the last 10 years. You know Michigan had all those highly rated kids when we beat them this year......right?

 

[RU4Real]

There's something that people tend to exclude from this conversation.

Rutgers has NEVER been a top program. Rutgers has NEVER been in a legit recruiting battle for the likes of Jarrett Gurantano and Dwayne Haskins, recruiting head-to-head against the defending National Champions.

This is a new development.

And it's not a point that you can simply dismiss.

 

[sct1111]

Originally posted by RU4Real:
There's something that people tend to exclude from this conversation.

Rutgers has NEVER been a top program. Rutgers has NEVER been in a legit recruiting battle for the likes of Jarrett Gurantano and Dwayne Haskins, recruiting head-to-head against the defending National Champions.

This is a new development.

And it's not a point that you can simply dismiss.

I think the 2011 and 2012 classes showed that Rutgers can compete for top recruits and get them to commit. Flood has just been unable to reproduce that level of recruiting since he's taken over. It's amazing how poorly Rutgers recruits our own state but 2011 and 2012 showed that it could be done.

 

[Knight Shift]

Originally posted by sct1111:

Originally posted by RU4Real:
There's something that people tend to exclude from this conversation.

Rutgers has NEVER been a top program. Rutgers has NEVER been in a legit recruiting battle for the likes of Jarrett Gurantano and Dwayne Haskins, recruiting head-to-head against the defending National Champions.

This is a new development.

And it's not a point that you can simply dismiss.

I think the 2011 and 2012 classes showed that Rutgers can compete for top recruits and get them to commit. Flood has just been unable to reproduce that level of recruiting since he's taken over. It's amazing how poorly Rutgers recruits our own state but 2011 and 2012 showed that it could be done.

And look at the debacles of 2013 on and off the field, people who hate their own state and wan to leave, and a hostile media at (star-liar/NJ.com) and you have your answers. Things are getting better. Patience. . . . .

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by Knight Shift:

Originally posted by JPhoboken:

Originally posted by jmc11201:

Good post by the OP.

In general, I think that there is something to the idea that Flood is bringing in better players than the stars would suggest, but I am also in the camp that says that the more high-star players you bring in, on average the better your team will be.

I agree. Looking at the Ohio States and Alabamas of the world prove this.

I think you have a hard time finding someone who disagrees with this.

What amazes me is the complainers who think we should be competing with the Ohio States and Alabamas for recruits after we have been in the B1G for only one year. They will trot out the 2013 class (not in the B1G that year) or the 2014 class (first year in the B1G, coming off a really bad year in 2013 on the field and with all the media circuses) and simply say "Flood can't recruit.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Flood has done well given the hand he was dealt, and I see steady improvement in job performance and recruiting.

Do some of you complainers continually dwell on the worst years or events of your lives, or do you learn from them and move forward in a positive direction?

No one thinks that. I (and they) do think we should beat out OSU and Alabama occasionally for high end local recruits (maybe one guy a year at this point who is just coveted by everyone from OSU on down), beat out somewhat lesser teams more frequently (so win a couple of battles against PSU for NJ top ten level players), and more or less always beat out anyone from Pittsburgh and BC on down (obviously there will be exceptions, but they should be just that - as at the end of the Schiano era - where basically it took a true regional if not national power to come in and beat us for top NJ kids).

Schiano, not in the Big Ten ever, and not even able to sell it as more than a pipe dream, recruited better than Flood on the whole, even early on. So using not being in the Big Ten as an excuse for Flood's bad (on paper) classes is not really supported.

Im not sure we have seen steady improvement - we were decent, terrible, then decent again. Basing your judgement on one year is kind of meaningless. But recruiting rankings between 2014 and 2015 were more or less the same and slightly worse according to all websites I believe than 2013. Its just one class started out great and ended badly, and the other started out poorly and ended better.

Now thats not including this year. There SEEMs to have been great improvement in recruiting - or at least in interest level from high profile players. Its very promising.

Flood has had to grow as a recruiter. He clearly isn't one of those guys who is just born with that ability. This year will tell alot about whether he is capable of making that transition. There is no reason we shouldn't have a substantially better year than the previous three. It doesn't need to be top 25 (although given the interest levels out there, it could be), but top 40 should be a bare minimum (which still puts us in the bottom half of the P5, despite being in the top half in in state talent).

If not, then he will have to prove to be a really elite level coach to compete for even just the top half of this division.

 

[RCTrooper]

Originally posted by RU4Real:
There's something that people tend to exclude from this conversation.

Rutgers has NEVER been a top program. Rutgers has NEVER been in a legit recruiting battle for the likes of Jarrett Gurantano and Dwayne Haskins, recruiting head-to-head against the defending National Champions.

This is a new development.

And it's not a point that you can simply dismiss.

Dismissing it. Tom Savage was the #8 ranked pro-passer in the nation and we actually landed him. Anthony Davis was the #2 rated OT and we beat out OSU for him. Darius Hamilton was the #2 DT in the nation and a 5* recruit. The new development is that Schiano isn't here to recruit anymore so we don't close these guys anymore. Honestly GS would sell the sh!t out the value proposition of RU in the BiG right now. Flood, honestly, is mediocre. Let's call a spade a spade.

Moreover, that is such a loser's argument: "Wow, we never had long conversations with the hottest girl in school. We've arrived !" (hot girl then goes to the prom with Mr. Popular and bangs him out afterwards).






This post was edited on 4/14 5:09 PM by RCTrooper

 

[MADHAT1]

OSU beat Maryland 52-14 and beat Wisconsin in Championship game 59-
zip

Losing to the Buckeyes isn't as bad as it seems, but wasn't a nice
loss.

Wisconsin beat Maryland 52-7 and Nebraska by 35 , RU losing 37-0 was bad ,
but not the end of world.

Mich St did put a beating on RU, but they nailed PSU pretty good as
well.

Also soundly handled the Turtles when they played.

The Cornhusker defeat was another bad one and Nebraska did win convincingly


We can put up those loses to make RU's season look bad, even if it did far
better than most posting her thought the season would look like and the media experts proved wrong about how bad it would be.


Top programs win big, sometimes against other good ones, RU just ran into
those type of programs in the losses pointed out

to make the 2014 FB look less than it was and act like RU was supposed to
stay close to the top B1G programs with AAC type players filling most of the
roster .

RU looked good in 2014 despite those losses and now are starting to recruit the B1G type players needee to compete with the top Big Ten programs.
Production will come with a roster filled mainly with B1G type recruits and the blowouts might happen, but won't be expected as
they were going into RU's first B1G season in 2014.

 

[ScarletKnightRider]

Originally posted by RCTrooper:

Originally posted by RU4Real:
There's something that people tend to exclude from this conversation.

Rutgers has NEVER been a top program. Rutgers has NEVER been in a legit recruiting battle for the likes of Jarrett Gurantano and Dwayne Haskins, recruiting head-to-head against the defending National Champions.

This is a new development.

And it's not a point that you can simply dismiss.

Dismissing it. Tom Savage was the #8 ranked pro-passer in the nation and we actually landed him. Anthony Davis was the #2 rated OT and we beat out OSU for him. Darius Hamilton was the #2 DT in the nation and a 5* recruit.

Moreover, that is such a loser's argument: "Wow, we never had long conversations with the hottest girl in school. We've arrived !" (hot girl then goes to the prom with Mr. Popular and bangs him out afterwards).

This post was edited on 4/14 5:02 PM by RCTrooper

If she is the one "banging HIM out", then maybe its best that we never got any further than a long conversation with ... um... "her"

 

[vkj91]

Originally posted by RCTrooper:

Dismissing it. Tom Savage was the #8 ranked pro-passer in the nation and we actually landed him. Anthony Davis was the #2 rated OT and we beat out OSU for him. Darius Hamilton was the #2 DT in the nation and a 5* recruit. The new development is that Schiano isn't here to recruit anymore so we don't close these guys anymore. Honestly GS would sell the sh!t out the value proposition of RU in the BiG right now. Flood, honestly, is mediocre. Let's call a spade a spade.

Moreover, that is such a loser's argument: "Wow, we never had long conversations with the hottest girl in school. We've arrived !" (hot girl then goes to the prom with Mr. Popular and bangs him out afterwards).



This post was edited on 4/14 5:09 PM by RCTrooper

Why do you believe Schiano would sell the shit out of it? Even if he could it doesn't mean he'd be out recruiting OSU and PSU. If you are honest, you'll admit his classes were never better than 3rd the Big East UNTIL he added Hafley. Also, these mythical classes you guys love to talk about, what did they produce? How many of those 4 stars were really being pursued by the top programs? I mean actual committable offers? You ever question why so many of those guys never panned out?

 

[RU4Real]

Originally posted by RCTrooper:

Originally posted by RU4Real:
There's something that people tend to exclude from this conversation.

Rutgers has NEVER been a top program. Rutgers has NEVER been in a legit recruiting battle for the likes of Jarrett Gurantano and Dwayne Haskins, recruiting head-to-head against the defending National Champions.

This is a new development.

And it's not a point that you can simply dismiss.

Dismissing it. Tom Savage was the #8 ranked pro-passer in the nation and we actually landed him. Anthony Davis was the #2 rated OT and we beat out OSU for him. Darius Hamilton was the #2 DT in the nation and a 5* recruit. The new development is that Schiano isn't here to recruit anymore so we don't close these guys anymore. Honestly GS would sell the sh!t out the value proposition of RU in the BiG right now. Flood, honestly, is mediocre. Let's call a spade a spade.

Moreover, that is such a loser's argument: "Wow, we never had long conversations with the hottest girl in school. We've arrived !" (hot girl then goes to the prom with Mr. Popular and bangs him out afterwards).






This post was edited on 4/14 5:09 PM by RCTrooper

Flood kept Hamilton. Which fact may not fit your narrative, but... There it is.

And it's not a loser argument except to those who fail to see the not-so-nuanced point, which is that you don't go from not being on the radar of the Tier 1 recruits to landing them all in one fell swoop. In between not being on their radar and getting them all comes the part where you're on their radar and you get one, then two, then five...

 

[JPhoboken]

Originally posted by Yeah Baby:

Originally posted by JPhoboken:

Originally posted by jmc11201:

Good post by the OP.

In general, I think that there is something to the idea that Flood is bringing in better players than the stars would suggest, but I am also in the camp that says that the more high-star players you bring in, on average the better your team will be.

I agree. Looking at the Ohio States and Alabamas of the world prove this.

I get what you guys are saying and agree but how can you make the comment that OSU and Bama PROVE this when examples already given PROVE otherwise?

I certainly am always happy to see 4 stars sign on here. But our production over the years has come from 2 and 3 stars and some 4 stars. Same with Oregon and same with TCU.

Regarding the OP, it is the trenches that Flood wants to win games and I like who he has brought in to date. We lacked some depth when we played the better teams last year up front and that to me is an area we can improve on going forward.

I don't understand what you are disagreeing with. We all know that some 4 and 5 star guys don't work out and some 2 and 3 star guys become stars. This is not what we are talking about.

Yes there are teams who compete at high levels without getting top 5 recruiting classes, again, not disputing this. But look at the teams who are consistently at the top, and you will see that they have highly ranked recruiting classes. The more highly rated guys you bring in, the more chance you have of them working out and playing up to their ranking.

 

[RU#1fan]

Originally posted by KnightRecruiting ....steady improvement ? Rankings : 2012 = #21, 2013= #52 , 2014= #53 , 2015 = # 56. What was the hand he was dealt ? First year in the periennial CFB Conference in the Country .

How many times does it have to be explained? I'll give a short synopsis. You do realize 52, 53, 56, are statistically insignificant, don't you?
The hand:
1. Schiano bails, takes all coaches and others with him. Flood is named head coach, and given peanuts to hire coordinators and it shows. 2012 season ends with a slide and move to AAC--not an exciting conference to recruit and entice players for the 2013 class.
2. 2013 is a media circus with Rice-gate, firing of Pernetti, hiring of Julie with multiple dramas, bad year on the field (part of that is on Flood), and a terrible end of year slide. This hurts 2014 recruiting.
3. 2014-respectable first year in B1G, but damage from 2013 season has not been fully undone.
4. 2015- We have yet to see how 2015 will impact 2016 recruiting class. There are positive signs, but we will not know until national signing day.
Don't know what kind of results you are expecting from a guy learning on the job, but seems to be improving in many areas. Do you really expect Rutgers to be in the top quarter of recruiting after a single year in the B1G?
You must be a blast to live with, harping on the negatives only. Are you sure you are the #1 fan of Rutgers?

You are still missing the point. Recruiting IS NOT improving as you state. If not #1 Fan , I am sure I am close. A non -alumni who donates thousand + every year to RU football ( and not making $100k either) and travels to 2-3.away games every year. What's your commitment loudmouth ? Your comment on being a blast to live with shows your maturity.

 

[rutgersdave]

This is why we shouldn't post anything about recruiting. Don't try to convince people that recruit rankings doesn't mean anything. The majority of the people know that it means something.

 

[vkj91]

Originally posted by rutgersdave:
This is why we shouldn't post anything about recruiting. Don't try to convince people that recruit rankings doesn't mean anything. The majority of the people know that it means something.

Ok no more recruiting talk on a recruiting website. Sounds good.....BTW, who said recruiting doesn't mean a thing? Please show one place where I said that?