Forgot who asked for it, but someone asked me for the plus / minus of the team this year. Here's a breakdown from each Big Ten game.
McConnells issues isn't he can't score, because he's very good in the mid range.Jalen Miller has the highest plus minus on team. Some like to say we are 4 on 5 offensively. Maybe we are 6 on 5 defensively.
Several posters - who were bashing Miller - should hopefully see the chart that Richie put up and learn to appreciate the good that Miller does - given defense is 50% of the game. Though in fairness I do realize his offensive limitations and the issue having him and Caleb on the court at the same time for long periods of time.Jalen Miller has the highest plus minus on team. Some like to say we are 4 on 5 offensively. Maybe we are 6 on 5 defensively.
Geo got saved for not absorbing blow out loss at Illinois.On a team like ours where the starters play basically the whole game, + / - is completely useless. Especially taken as an average as it’s not SD adjusted.
Caleb didn’t play in the second half of the NW game when we made that come back. His +/- goes to -0- without that one game alone. We lost it anyway
Meanwhile Hyatt was on the floor absorbing a ton of meaningless minutes during a blow out win vs Nebraska. Think we don’t pull that one out without him? His +/- is getting a +33 boost from that one game.
As a blended average it is completely useless.Not completely
I have gone back and forth with this and tend to agree for most part. Not sure what the real hoops analytics say about + / -?+ / - is basically meaningless
sometimes, but not always.I have gone back and forth with this and tend to agree for most part. Not sure what the real hoops analytics say about + / -?
There is something to be said for being on the court in a 5 man game during a nice 17-4 stretch , but does it REALLY tell you how they contributed?
Yes - for the bench players for sure.sometimes, but not always.
There is some relevance to the Miller and Reiber numbers, IMO.
Yes - for the bench players for sure.
Not for starters that are playing 30+ minutes a game though. They really aren’t on the bench long enough to form a correlation.
Not completely
+/- would be useful but it just takes forever to converge. The noise to signal ratio is so high that over the numbers of games that are actually played in a season it's pretty meaningless as an evaluative or predictive measure. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting though.I have gone back and forth with this and tend to agree for most part. Not sure what the real hoops analytics say about + / -?
There is something to be said for being on the court in a 5 man game during a nice 17-4 stretch , but does it REALLY tell you how they contributed?
I think that’s what he meant. It can be useful on a case by case basis. Never blended across a ton of games unless your looking at a kid who plays limited minutes and showing that there’s really no game where that player’s +/- is worse than the team average for any one game. Where that’s true - it sort of shows it’s not hurting the team to have to play that kid.+/- would be useful but it just takes forever to converge. The noise to signal ratio is so high that over the numbers of games that are actually played in a season it's pretty meaningless as an evaluative or predictive measure. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting though.
I posted a link upthread with Kenpom's take on it.
hmmm.. maybe Miller has a good +/- because he doesn't shoot.. unlike the guard he replaces most often. Meaning he lets others shoot the ball.Several posters - who were bashing Miller - should hopefully see the chart that Richie put up and learn to appreciate the good that Miller does - given defense is 50% of the game. Though in fairness I do realize his offensive limitations and the issue having him and Caleb on the court at the same time for long periods of time.
You have to admit there is relevance when looking at miller and Reiber+/- would be useful but it just takes forever to converge. The noise to signal ratio is so high that over the numbers of games that are actually played in a season it's pretty meaningless as an evaluative or predictive measure. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting though.
I posted a link upthread with Kenpom's take on it.
It's a good argument against people who say things like "we always fall behind when X is on the floor!" but I don't think the fact that Miller and Reiber have good +/- really tells us anything we couldn't already see. If that was all the information I had and someone asked me if there were good I think the correct answer is a giant shrug.You have to admit there is relevance when looking at miller and Reiber
You have to admit there is relevance when looking at miller and Reiber