Sarge threw some good questions to Ash and Meherringer about reason still running power spread..

[BlockR]

without the QB and athletes needed to run the sets of that power spread offense... and blocking schemes..
some curious answers..IMHO..
http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2016/10/does_rutgers_personnel_fit_drew_mehringers_spread.html

Keith Sargeant Verified account ‏@KSargeantNJ


I pressed Chris Ash on issue plaguing the offense (i.e. Does the personnel fit the scheme?). His answer .

 

[brgRC90]

You can't concede that we've played 3 top 5 teams in the country and then quote the overall stats for offensive production. Of course they're going to be dismal. A better gauge is to see how the offense did against the other teams.

 

[RUskoolie]

It would be beyond moronic to try and run a pro style when you want to run a power spread. It's not the schemes. Take out Carroo from 2015 and what was our offensive production against Wisconsin, OSU, MSU and Michigan? Hot garbage.

Be competitive, win what games you can, recruit your asses off and get through 2016 and 2017. 2018 the worm turns on this program just as the louder idiots are demanding Ash be fired for not being able to go bowling in the B1G with a James Madison level roster.

 

[BlockR]

It would be beyond moronic to try and run a pro style when you want to run a power spread. It's not the schemes. Take out Carroo from 2015 and what was our offensive production against Wisconsin, OSU, MSU and Michigan? Hot garbage.

Be competitive, win what games you can, recruit your asses off and get through 2016 and 2017. 2018 the worm turns on this program just as the louder idiots are demanding Ash be fired for not being able to go bowling in the B1G with a James Madison level roster.

on the flip side its not Moronic to try and run a power spread,EVERY PLAY, without a QB who is NOT a run threat (and cant read a pass defense)or lineman who are unable to block in the power spread? also without Grant there is no homerun threat to make the single matchup power spread work...so Sarges questions are valid..IMHO.

 

[PaKnight]

on the flip side its not Moronic to try and run a power spread,EVERY PLAY, without a QB who is NOT a run threat (and cant read a pass defense)or lineman who are unable to block in the power spread? also without Grant there is no homerun threat to make the single matchup power spread work...so Sarges questions are valid..IMHO.

Wouldn't most of those issues be problems in a pro style too?

 

[RutgersRaRa]

on the flip side its not Moronic to try and run a power spread,EVERY PLAY, without a QB who is NOT a run threat (and cant read a pass defense)or lineman who are unable to block in the power spread? also without Grant there is no homerun threat to make the single matchup power spread work...so Sarges questions are valid..IMHO.

OTOH it's not moronic to show recruits the schemes we'll be running in the future, since the cupboard was half empty when Ash got here and we need to show the players where we're heading schematically.

 

[BlockR]

OTOH it's not moronic to show recruits the schemes we'll be running in the future, since the cupboard was half empty when Ash got here and we need to show the players where we're heading schematically.

and show the recruits..look we will stay running this scheme even after losing 75-0 in this game tonight..never change after Michigan run blitzes every single down..

 

[czxqa]

Wouldn't most of those issues be problems in a pro style too?

They certainly were last year. Laviano went 5 games without a TD pass.

 

[BlockR]

They certainly were last year. Laviano went 5 games without a TD pass.

yet he remains the starting QB... what does that say?

 

[rubigtimenow]

Actually Ash had great responses/questions of his own. Well done coach (imo).

 

[czxqa]

and show the recruits..look we will stay running this scheme even after losing 75-0 in this game tonight..never change after Michigan run blitzes every single down..

SO what do you suggest they change? Who to put in? They've played FOUR different quarterbacks this year in meaningful minutes, completely the opposite of coach Clueless, who played one guy every minute of every game except the one half he was suspended, a handful of garbage plays, and a handoff when he had to come off the field. The guy who left Janarion Grant rotting on the bench for THREE years doing nothing but returning kicks.

Please, offer an alternative. Last year's strategy did not work out so well, and we lost Lumpkin, the entire starting LB corps and Carroo, now let's add Quanzilla, JG, lost for the year, Najee Clayton and Greg Jones done for good, Saquan and Kiy Hester not playing against Michigan due to injury, Josh Hicks in the secondary, true freshman KJ Gray starting at SAM, 26 recruits from the Flood years nonquals, transfers, or expulsions, I think Abro still has some eligibility...

 

[tico brown]

I say run Single Wing Football (Im sorry, Wildcat), snap the ball to the RBs, following some lead blockers on power plays, run some counters and reverses and call it a day. Might as well if QBs ate going to be 2-20 for 5 yards or whatever it was.

I kid. But Baylor actually ran a single wing type offense in their last two games (vs Texas and UNC in a bowl game) when they ran out of QBs.

 

[KnightHound]

Listen, this isn't PlayStation or Xbox. You can't just show up on Sunday and say, " hey let's just scrap everything we've worked on installing for 9 months, and put in a pro style offense". Real football doesn't work like that. It takes months to install a new scheme. You just don't draw stuff up in the dirt and hope it works.

 

[goru7]

It would be beyond moronic to try and run a pro style when you want to run a power spread. It's not the schemes. Take out Carroo from 2015 and what was our offensive production against Wisconsin, OSU, MSU and Michigan? Hot garbage.

Be competitive, win what games you can, recruit your asses off and get through 2016 and 2017. 2018 the worm turns on this program just as the louder idiots are demanding Ash be fired for not being able to go bowling in the B1G with a James Madison level roster.

Except we are not running a power spread when our QB, is not a threat to run ,and does not know how to tuck the ball and pull it out when the defensive end crashes. Couple that with no downfield throws and the field has been condensed and now 8 are in the box and 10 within 8 yards of the line of scrimmage. No downfield threat leads any smart DC to call run blitzes to get our backs in the backfield because 5 cannot block 7. How about keeping a tight end in and run a pitch to Martin where he can get a head of steam and cut upfield and have the wide receivers crapblock the outside linebacker and the defensive end. So it is not a pro style but you have to tweak this offense we have to get our running backs and line a chance. This system is making both look mediocre and bad and worse than they actually are.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

You can't concede that we've played 3 top 5 teams in the country and then quote the overall stats for offensive production. Of course they're going to be dismal. A better gauge is to see how the offense did against the other teams.

I think one thing that has REALLY hurt is that not only is our O struggling mightily, against some of the best D's in the nation, but so are our ST's, which, in turn, kills our D. That's a seriously bad combo against 3 teams with great D's, great ST's, and good-to-very-good O's. I mean we literally had one chance on O and ST's to score, against Michigan and OSU, and that chance ended with Grant's injury.

 

[ashokan]

Doesn't matter what the system is when OL get bull rushed and put on their ass. Coach always said he believes in fundamental football first. Many people think "spread offense" is one thing (like WV under Rich Rod) but there are all sorts of flavors. All of them still need talent - lots of it in B1G

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Except we are not running a power spread when our QB, is not a threat to run ,and does not know how to tuck the ball and pull it out when the defensive end crashes. Couple that with no downfield throws and the field has been condensed and now 8 are in the box and 10 within 8 yards of the line of scrimmage. No downfield threat leads any smart DC to call run blitzes to get our backs in the backfield because 5 cannot block 7. How about keeping a tight end in and run a pitch to Martin where he can get a head of steam and cut upfield and have the wide receivers crapblock the outside linebacker and the defensive end. So it is not a pro style but you have to tweak this offense we have to get our running backs and line a chance. This system is making both look mediocre and bad and worse than they actually are.

I know it sucks - it's painful - but the more reps EVERY guy gets, who will be in the system the next 1, 2, or 3 years, the better it is for every kid coming into the system over the same period of time. It's not going to do those kids ANY good for us to run a different O now then, 2 years from now, switch over without having gotten 70 kids all those reps the previous 2 years. Take your lumps now.

Bottom line, I said it a million times, we weren't winning more than games this year regardless of what O we were running. Same with next year, most likely, unless we get a few really, really key transfers in the right places.

 

[vkj91]

Yes we should go back to the Pro Set. Our stable of TE's, FB's, and tackles will get us over the hump

 

[MADHAT1]

Spread not working like planned and pro set out of picture? QBs can’t play either of those well?
I suggest a starting backfield of Goodwin , Hicks, Martin & Sneed ( was his high school’s Wildcat QB in his junior season)
With that backfield RU could be run this offense >

 

[RutgersRaRa]

and show the recruits..look we will stay running this scheme even after losing 75-0 in this game tonight..never change after Michigan run blitzes every single down..

Dude, I'm not being argumentative, just pointing out part of the thought process that might be going on. The coaches had little talent to work with and are installing a new system, and may have laid out the best three-year plan for success. Fans want more immediate results, but wisdom dictates having a medium- to long-range plan. In college football a medium-range plan extends to year two, and a long-range plan is (ballpark) year three. In order to succeed in year three we need recruits now, and perhaps the coaches believe the best way to get them is to show them what we'll be running.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Spread not working like planned and pro set out of picture? QBs can’t play either of those well?
I suggest a starting backfield of Goodwin , Hicks, Martin & Sneed ( was his high school’s Wildcat QB in his junior season)
With that backfield RU could be run this offense >

Odin with 3 backs...put 2 TE's on the same side...see if you can stop us.

 

[RutgersRaRa]

Listen, this isn't PlayStation or Xbox. You can't just show up on Sunday and say, " hey let's just scrap everything we've worked on installing for 9 months, and put in a pro style offense". Real football doesn't work like that. It takes months to install a new scheme. You just don't draw stuff up in the dirt and hope it works.

This should be pinned for all the people who basically think it's just a matter of changing the playcalling.

 

[Caliknight]

yet he remains the starting QB... what does that say?

Exactly what it says. Flood left nothing on this roster.

 

[Knight Shift]

Take out Carroo from 2015 and what was our offensive production against Wisconsin, OSU, MSU and Michigan? Hot garbage.

Do you check what you are saying before posting?

Michigan
We had 225 yards of offense, 17 first downs and 16 points against Michigan last year. Not world beating and that's a hot mess? And Carroo does not appear in the stats.

tOSU
We had 293 yards of total offense. Take out Carroo--he had 55 yards and no TDs--245 total yards and 12 first downs.

Wisconsin
Carroo does not show up on the stat sheet. 165 Total yards of offense, 8 first downs and 10 points.

----
Will take each of those results 1000 times over 29 total yards, two first downs and zero points.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Doesn't matter what the system is when OL get bull rushed and put on their ass. Coach always said he believes in fundamental football first. Many people think "spread offense" is one thing (like WV under Rich Rod) but there are all sorts of flavors. All of them still need talent - lots of it in B1G

Bingo. And Rich Rod went 3-9 his first year at WVU.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Do you check what you are saying before posting?

Michigan
We had 225 yards of offense, 17 first downs and 16 points against Michigan last year. Not world beating and that's a hot mess? And Carroo does not appear in the stats.

tOSU
We had 293 yards of total offense. Take out Carroo--he had 55 yards and no TDs--245 total yards and 12 first downs.

Wisconsin
Carroo does not show up on the stat sheet. 165 Total yards of offense, 8 first downs and 10 points.

----
Will take each of those results 1000 times over 29 total yards, two first downs and zero points.

All 3 were still losses. I will gladly endure 2 years of bad football if it means the days of pumping up moral victories at Rutgers comes to an end. I mean we have actual fans who take pride in almost beating Alabama and tying Florida. That's sad. A loss is a loss in the record books. The stat sheets give the analysts and "journalists" something to fill the time with between games. We had some ugly stat lines in 2001 too which people have already forgotten about. Proves my point.

 

[rubjk]

If your pocket collapses in 2-3 seconds, and you can't complete screens and short passes no offense is going to work. Defense gets to stack the box, you can't run and you loose...plain and simple.

 

[RU4Real]

yet he remains the starting QB... what does that say?

That it's hard to recruit good quarterbacks when you're sneaking around in a Groucho mustache and sunglasses?

 

[devoted2ru]

I thought CA's answers were direct and on the mark. -No matter the system, whether you're employing the power spread, the pro set, (and we would have still gotten crushed by Washington, tOSU, and UM even if that was being run), or you have your QB going back to his sandlot days and drawing up plays in the turf before each snap, linemen still have to block, your signal caller still has to make good throws, and your receivers still have to get separation and catch the ball when it comes to them.

This staff is dedicated to running the power spread. I've no doubt they're trying to figure out ways to tweak it and adjust it to the extent they feel is possible right now, but there really is only so much you can do until the talent level is brought up to speed, (literally and figuratively), to run it effectively, and that's simply the fact of the matter. -And yeah, we'll take our lumps now and again until players are in the program that truly fit the schemes we're trying to run, but that's how things are when a coaching staff inherits a situation that requires a complete and total turnaround.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Wouldn't most of those issues be problems in a pro style too?

It would be just as bad or worse. Passing in the Pro-Set or the Spread is the same thing, if you can't complete a pass in one you won't be able to do it in the other. This isn't rocket science.

 

[ruready07]

I know Blazek is a fun and loving guy - but our Oline has been the second least productive unit and the most contributing unit to everyone else's issues on offense..

Whats up Blaze? Our line is playing soft as hell. They don't even care if they get the quarterback killed, they just trot off the field and find the bench. Have some pride for crying out loud.

 

[BoogieKnight]

I know Blazek is a fun and loving guy - but our Oline has been the second least productive unit and the most contributing unit to everyone else's issues on offense..

Whats up Blaze? Our line is playing soft as hell. They don't even care if they get the quarterback killed, they just trot off the field and find the bench. Have some pride for crying out loud.

Agree somewhat but they are just not very good. The C and LG can play and that's about it. The right side was way overrated coming out of high school. It happens.

 

[Knight Shift]

All 3 were still losses. I will gladly endure 2 years of bad football if it means the days of pumping up moral victories at Rutgers comes to an end. I mean we have actual fans who take pride in almost beating Alabama and tying Florida. That's sad. A loss is a loss in the record books. The stat sheets give the analysts and "journalists" something to fill the time with between games. We had some ugly stat lines in 2001 too which people have already forgotten about. Proves my point.

I partially agree and it wasn't really my point. The OP was prattling on about the contributions of Carroo in those 4 games, and they were basically nonexistent in 3 of those 4 games. But we also had fans expecting us to look more competitive this year against the titans of the B1G with better conditioning, better schemes and better tackling. For me, it's too early to draw any conclusions, but the constant drumbeat against the QB alone and hailing Carroo as our savior last year against the titans is not only comical, it's wrong. Yes, he made a big contribution in some games, but that again speaks to the main problems with our offense not being limited to QB play--it's the OL and WRs and TE's problem too.

 

[RU#1fan]

You can't concede that we've played 3 top 5 teams in the country and then quote the overall stats for offensive production. Of course they're going to be dismal. A better gauge is to see how the offense did against the other teams.

And how did that Spread Offense look against New Mexico and Iowa ?
One TD over the last 6 Qtrs, of those 2 games.
Stop the with the " but we played the great almighty " defenses.
It ain't working folks unless we are playing the bottom feeder of the FCS football.( like a Howard).

 

[BoogieKnight]

I partially agree and it wasn't really my point. The OP was prattling on about the contributions of Carroo in those 4 games, and they were basically nonexistent in 3 of those 4 games. But we also had fans expecting us to look more competitive this year against the titans of the B1G with better conditioning, better schemes and better tackling. For me, it's too early to draw any conclusions, but the constant drumbeat against the QB alone and hailing Carroo as our savior last year against the titans is not only comical, it's wrong. Yes, he made a big contribution in some games, but that again speaks to the main problems with our offense not being limited to QB play--it's the OL and WRs and TE's problem too.

While I agree everything is the problem and not one or two position groups, we don't beat IU last year without Carroo. We will likely finish 3-9 this season and last season we would have too without Leonte.

 

[Veiox]

And how did that Spread Offense look against New Mexico and Iowa ?
One TD over the last 6 Qtrs, of those 2 games.
Stop the with the " but we played the great almighty " defenses.
It ain't working folks unless we are playing the bottom feeder of the FCS football.( like a Howard).

Beat me to it

 

[PaKnight]

And how did that Spread Offense look against New Mexico and Iowa ?
One TD over the last 6 Qtrs, of those 2 games.
Stop the with the " but we played the great almighty " defenses.
It ain't working folks unless we are playing the bottom feeder of the FCS football.( like a Howard).

You are conveniently leaving off the first half of the New Mexico game, the offense score 30 points not including the return TD in the game.

 

[Veiox]

You are conveniently leaving off the first half of the New Mexico game, the offense score 30 points not including the return TD in the game.

Actually it was 21 points in the first half not including Grant's return and only one of those was a sustained drive, the other two were each 1 big play.

 

[PaKnight]

Actually it was 21 points in the first half not including Grant's return

I said in the game.

 

[Knight Ed]

I remember when Fridge got here and when asked about what offense he would run he said he had to see what his players could do first and he would adjust accordingly. Mehringer is a kid who only knows how to run the one offense he has been taught. That's the problem when you hire the least experienced OC in the country. Why would anyone think he has any idea how to run any other offense?