So why is Michigan State so bad now?
- Thread starter soundcrib
- Start date
Watched their games. No simple answer or one reason - QB play, very high penalty rate in some of the earlier games (lack of discipline), no pass rush, poor secondary play, injuries especially at LBer position. They're mixing in younger players as the season goes on and during the last 2 games have been hit by a slew of injuries. It's snowballed out of control
Gotta hand it to Flood. He was so good at screwing up things, it affected not just Rutgers, bit apparently Michigan State as well. I wonder if Julie apologized to MSU's AD yet?
People just assume they would be good because they've been good for the last few years, but a closer look shows they had a lot of problems. They had to replace one of the best quarterbacks ever to come through that program. The secondary lost a lot of depth do transfers and another quitting. While the d-line looks good on paper they lost a lot of experienced starters. The OL hasn't performed anywhere near Michigan State Standards. It's been the perfect storm.
For starters, they replaced an elite QB with one of the worst in D1. While 2-7 is very surprising, I figured Michigan State would suffer a setback eventually. They are not a reload program like OSU or UM yet.
imo Narduzzi had a significant contribution to MSU's recent success. think they are still trying to fill the hole he left behind.
Except last year when they beat OSU, won the B1G and played in the playoffs.
Never good when your program is being compared to us. Therefore, it should be a great game.
- pretty sure every member of that great D all graduated or went pro the last 2 seasons and they were GREAT for the the entire 3-4 years in the program
- losing not only a very good QB, BUT, one who knew how to win games, and had some great weapons along with an OL that was mostly together for those last 2 years and very experienced (IIRC)
- shit happens.
- losing not only a very good QB, BUT, one who knew how to win games, and had some great weapons along with an OL that was mostly together for those last 2 years and very experienced (IIRC)
- shit happens.
Michigan State will have some success in their program, but their not a reload team! The departure of Narduzzi hurts them and it shows.They are beatable this Saturday.
There are programs that rebuild and programs that reload. MSU doesn't get the same quality of recruit that Ohio State gets. They've been successful because of experienced players developing over a 3-4 year period. Those players are gone
Pretty simple, they lost too many good players. MSU is not that like OSU and Michigan who both have TONS of 4 and 5 stars riding the bench waiting for their chance to start.
MSU instead is all about developing players to NFL levels. When they were having great success they will able to get their share of 4 stars as well, but that is not their bread and butter which is why down years happen, it happen a few years ago as well. But their foundation and system is strong enough that they will bounce right back soon enough.
MSU instead is all about developing players to NFL levels. When they were having great success they will able to get their share of 4 stars as well, but that is not their bread and butter which is why down years happen, it happen a few years ago as well. But their foundation and system is strong enough that they will bounce right back soon enough.
On Defense Michigan State returned the following from their Playoff team:
- Entire secondary (Copeland was starting last year until his injury)
- 2 out of 3 LBers (Bullough and Reschke)
- Malik McDowell (Cooper and Knox rotating in last year)
On Offense:
- Stable of RBs (Scott, Holmes and London)
- 1 out of 2 WRs (Shelton)
- TE (Price)
- 3 out of 5 on the OL
Since their Rose Bowl win, they've recruited better than ever with an average of 8 four star recruits per year for the last 3 years.
Disagree with making a simple statement that they lost too many good players as a reason for their current results. They experienced no more or no less attrition from last year then other B1G programs.
- Entire secondary (Copeland was starting last year until his injury)
- 2 out of 3 LBers (Bullough and Reschke)
- Malik McDowell (Cooper and Knox rotating in last year)
On Offense:
- Stable of RBs (Scott, Holmes and London)
- 1 out of 2 WRs (Shelton)
- TE (Price)
- 3 out of 5 on the OL
Since their Rose Bowl win, they've recruited better than ever with an average of 8 four star recruits per year for the last 3 years.
Disagree with making a simple statement that they lost too many good players as a reason for their current results. They experienced no more or no less attrition from last year then other B1G programs.
Last edited:
They lost a ton on the DL and a ton on the OL. They also didn't return "1 of 2 WRs", they lost 3 of their top 4. They lost the best QB in school history and replaced him with crap.
That is way more attrition than most programs, if not in numbers then certainly in quality. And the players they did return (for the most part) were the weak links on the team last year. Their secondary was atrocious and they brought everybody back. That's not always a good thing.
Agree with you on DL noting their best DL player from the 2015 team returned. As for OL, as stated they had to replace 2 out of the 5 starters from the 2015 team. WRs they lost Burbrdige and Kings with Burbridge as their leading receiver. Kings had a nice year but replacing approx. 500 receiving yards isn't a huge deal. Corley with 3 games to go isn't that far off. They didn't lose even close to the production that Ohio State lost.
Yes, every year College Football programs lose key players. Dantonio has won 11 games or more 5 out of the last 6 seasons and made a bowl game all of his 9 seasons at MSU. Lose of players doesn't explain why he's sitting at 2 wins this season. He's had to re-tool multiple times during his 9 seasons with less talent and always makes a bowl game. It's a poor excuse.
Last edited:
Then add in the fact that they probably weren't as good as their record the last couple of years. They won more than their share of games that could have gone either way. Two or three more plays go our way and RU would have defeated them last year.
1) OL. They only had 1 great OL last year and he was a 1st round pick and is playing great in the NFL. They had 1 good OL to go with him and he also graduated. The 3 returning OL were all nothing special last year.
2) They lost Burbridge, Kings, and Arnett at WR that were 3 of their top 4 playmakers outside. Only Shelton returns. Corley has some talent, but he's getting most of his production in garbage time.
Did MSU lose as much as OSU lost? Of course not. But OSU lost the most in the country. MSU lost the 2nd most in the Big Ten. And while OSU replaced those guys with a bunch of 4 and 5 star recruits, MSU replaced them with a bunch of 3 star recruits. Dantonio has done wonders over the years, but a lot of that was having 6 out of 7 years QBd by the best QB in school history (Kirk Cousins) who then got replaced by an even better QB (Connor Cook). Hard to win that lottery a 3rd time in a row.
MSU has never lost as much talent as they did heading into this season and anybody with a brain that wasn't Dantonio brainwashed knew they would take a big step back. I certainly did.
Then you must be a freakin
WRs - Kings was a nice player, however, not a huge loss. Your mention of Arnett is a joke. Arnett caught 6 passes last year. Little used Felton Davis has as much receptions as Arnett's total season receptions in 1 game this year against Illinois. 33% of Arnett's production in receptions and yardage last year came against Rutgers.
OL - Michigan State was moving pieces around last year due to injuries including Conklin out for 2.5 games. Brian Allen has been starting since his freshman year. Kieler had 19 starts coming into this season. Yeah, Conklin and big brother Allen were losses, however, it's not a situation where Michigan State wasn't returning players who played the last few seasons including the Cotton Bowl and last year's playoffs.
You're the only one who forecasted MSU would be sitting at 2 wins to date. Since Dantonio has always gotten the program to a bowl game in his 9 years, you must be a freaking genius.
[QUOTE="RURM85, post: 2459793, member: 5090"
You're the only one who forecasted MSU would be sitting at 2 wins to date. Since Dantonio has always gotten the program to a bowl game in his 9 years, you must be a freaking genius.[/QUOTE]
I didn't forecast 2 wins, but I said they'd be lucky to be much above .500 for the year and that 7 wins was about their ceiling.
I get that people are infatuated with Dantonio, but they failed to see just how poor his returning talent was.
You're the only one who forecasted MSU would be sitting at 2 wins to date. Since Dantonio has always gotten the program to a bowl game in his 9 years, you must be a freaking genius.[/QUOTE]
I didn't forecast 2 wins, but I said they'd be lucky to be much above .500 for the year and that 7 wins was about their ceiling.
I get that people are infatuated with Dantonio, but they failed to see just how poor his returning talent was.
+1. Just think, clean up the Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, and Minn. games and we could be 6-3 and talking about a successful debut for the Ash Era.
Most of what is wrtten above is correct. I'll also add lack of leadership. The past few years it's been strong. This year, not so much. They essentially have none.
Injuries have been never ending this year and make an already shaky situation even worse.
D.L.: Three starters graduated (all in the NFL), five guys who were supposed to be filling those holes are gone from the program (variety of reasons), throw in weekly injuries to DL, and on any one week, they are down 8-10 DL compared to the end of last year. They even had to bring in a fifth year grad transfer from power Delaware State. Had a great frosh DL class, and most are now playing, but their freshman.
After such a poor start, they are starting to go with the kids and take their lumps. A lot of redshirts have been burned.
Injuries have been never ending this year and make an already shaky situation even worse.
D.L.: Three starters graduated (all in the NFL), five guys who were supposed to be filling those holes are gone from the program (variety of reasons), throw in weekly injuries to DL, and on any one week, they are down 8-10 DL compared to the end of last year. They even had to bring in a fifth year grad transfer from power Delaware State. Had a great frosh DL class, and most are now playing, but their freshman.
After such a poor start, they are starting to go with the kids and take their lumps. A lot of redshirts have been burned.
