The efficiency and stat breakdown- Omoyuri vs Harper Jr.

[NewJerseyHawk]

Since there's emotion and anxiety involved whenever change occurs, the best way is to just look at raw data, the common sense "eye-test" and then make your evaluation. Hyperbole and "warrior mentality" all sound good, but the actual data tells a different story. I recognize intangibles and taking charges and other variables that are not on a stat sheet, but it's really not a huge issue, if we look at the numbers.

The best comparison is to not compare Eugene to Yeboah....that's one where I can go down that route, but the variable that fans point to is the conference difference between the America East stats and shooting percentages and the clearly more difficult B1G. Those are legitimate items, but I would not compare Yeboah as a 5th year senior to Kiss as a 3rd year sophomore, from smaller leagues as a item to point to as a concern.

Since we didn't watch shot selection or 30+ Stony Brook games, we have to assume the numbers are the same (Kiss shooting percentages were about the same, just less attempts etc). Maybe he's coached with better options around him at RU and takes better shots here and his percentages are higher here BUT the B1G opponents defense is better, so we land him where he was last year, when he was the primary scoring option.

My easier measurable is Eugene as a junior vs Harper as a freshman or project forward to Harper into his sophomore season. It's not that far apart and Harper is based on the numbers below, the overall better and more efficient player. Harper is with the stats, not emotion....

A) The overall better basketball player
B) The more efficient basketball player
C) The better overall shooter
D) The better shooter from 3 point range
E) The better player who takes care of the ball

Harper trails Eugene in PPG and RPG, but that can be explained with the stat line, minutes per game and touches per game. I am going to go with the games since Eugene returned from the injury in January, since that allowed more minutes for others to play and get comfortable.

OMOYURI since returning from injury vs Nebraska.

13.00 PPG
6.85 RPG
63-150 FG (42%)
2-12 3 PT FG (16.66%)
53-72 FT's (73.6%)
43 Assists (very good passer when players were available)
31 Turnovers (2.2 per game)
31.14 Minutes per game
14 Total games post injury
10.71 Shot attempts per game

HARPER Jr. since EO injury vs Ohio State

8.94 PPG
3.68 RPG
59-134 FG (44%)
23-68 3 PT (33.82%)
25-34 FT (73.5%)
19 Assists
13 Turnovers (0.72 per game)
25.61 Minutes per game
18 Total games post EO injury
7.44 Shot attempts per game

Obviously there are factors to consider since the players both started games together, but the trend line is a little more defined if I reduce it to Harper's last 8 games, after the OT loss at Illinois...keep in mind, I can include the Illinois game and they still stand out pretty well. Harper went 0-7 from 3 vs Illinois, but made the tying 2 pointer to force OT...finished 6-15, 15 points (0-7 from 3), 3-3 FT's, 6 boards, and no turnovers.

Harper's last 8 games are below.

12.0 PPG
3.37 RPG
35-66 FG (53%)
13-34 3 PT (38.2%)
10-14 FT (71.4%)
10 Turnovers (1.25 per game)
28.5 Minutes per game
Final 8 games of season
8.25 Shot attempts per game

I know it doesn't fit what the storyline is or adds clicks here or on Twitter....it was shocking to hear Eugene departing, but this roster has the firepower and will be more efficient with Harper and Yeboah.

Eugene averaged 2.5 turnovers in the last 8 games of the season, to Harper's 1.25 turnovers in the same games.

I could simplify this by stating Harper hit 21 more 3's in the games since EO went down......How many shot attempts will Yeboah pick up???....

What if it's the 10 or 11 that Eugene had....?? With the same minutes per game that Eugene had or perhaps 5 to 6 minutes less per game, he's going to make more 3's, shoot the same FT % and shoot s similar FG%.I feel comfortable landing Yeboah exactly where Eugene was as a worse case scenario, but he's a better shooter from 3, so if he takes 11 to 12 shots per game, RU will score more PPG. They average the same FT attempts per game, IMO.

Feel free to fire away, these are the numbers or raw data. And since we are adding Yeboah and Harper, you cannot say RU was going to be better with all 3 of Eugene, Harper and Yeboah....two of the 3 are drastically more efficient than Eugene.....There are only so many touches, only one basketball and only so many shot attempts or possessions per game and someone's stat line was going to look different.

 

[dpwhite]

How do you quantify the defense of Eugene vs. Ron?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

KGC and I are going to look at RHJs usage. Only 3 games in that span was he at 20%. Will his efficiency be there when those numbers approach 25%

Sophomore Issa was very efficient. When all you do is take the “Issa 3” you better shoot it at 40% and be real efficient.

Without Eugene coming in at 27% who takes up the load and does their efficiency suffer?

Caleb and Ron can shoot it. We know that. Can they stay efficient and be in the 22% range?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

http://barttorvik.com/team.php?filter=&year=2019&team=Rutgers

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

How do you quantify the defense of Eugene vs. Ron?

I use a 75% Eugene as a best case scenario as an average at best defender....I watched the remaining 4 games, after we destroyed Iowa on the road and Eugene reinjured the knee or ankle and he was significanrly worse defensively than before the injury in January.

I don't think Harper is a bad defender, but I don't believe Eugene's defense was as good as many want to believe it was...We had multiple kids go for career highs against a RU defense, that doesn't have elite athletes, lacks a shot blocker and included Eugene playing 31 minutes a night.

Giorgi from Illinois and Wesson from Ohio State went 10-12 vs Eugene and Shaq Doorson. Shaq Carter actually played better defense in spots but was not quick enough as well.

I will leave out Lamar Stevens torching RU at the RAC in the 1st half, getting pretty much whatever he wanted....yes he shot 8-24 overall and had 4 turnovers after RU decided to play in the 2nd half.....then we finished up at Indiana with Juwan Morgan going 10-12 from the field for 25 points.....while giving up 89 total....

Then James Palmer rings up 34 points in the B1G tournament...

The defense in general is a concern and to be fair, Eugene was severely compromised, gave it his best effort, but he stopped the ball on offense way too much for me and turned it over a lot, for someone that isn't a guard..... but if Eugene is a huge difference maker defensively, how do you measure that beyond drawing charges....???

If you turn it 5 times over every 2 game span, how many charges do you have to draw to make up the difference??

These aren't opinions, it's just numbers that jump off the page or stand out. If Eugene pushed up 95 to 100 3's and make 25% of them, it's better than a turnover IMO....You can't turn it over if you take what the defense gives you...Yeboah and Harper will be dangerous as a combination....we need a mobile PF, with length that can run and jump...find that type of player and the upside of this roster goes way up.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Don’t minimize Eugene’s charges. Charges terminate possessions where blocks result in a rebound opportunity if blocked in bounds.

If he averaged 1 per game it moves the defensive efficiency needle a bunch.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

How do you quantify the defense of Eugene vs. Ron?

This is the big question

In the one third to one half of the time where big ten teams play two bigs ...can RHJ match up with the 6’9 260 lb guys on the block defensively and on the glass ?

I have no doubt that he will be able to exploit those guys on offense but can he defend and board as a four

We don’t know. If he can ...then it will be an upgrade.

And the defense and rebounding ...might take a year.

Time will tell

But I have no doubt that he will be an offensive upgrade on offense to EO

 

[RutgersDom]

Since there's emotion and anxiety involved whenever change occurs, the best way is to just look at raw data, the common sense "eye-test" and then make your evaluation. Hyperbole and "warrior mentality" all sound good, but the actual data tells a different story. I recognize intangibles and taking charges and other variables that are not on a stat sheet, but it's really not a huge issue, if we look at the numbers.

The best comparison is to not compare Eugene to Yeboah....that's one where I can go down that route, but the variable that fans point to is the conference difference between the America East stats and shooting percentages and the clearly more difficult B1G. Those are legitimate items, but I would not compare Yeboah as a 5th year senior to Kiss as a 3rd year sophomore, from smaller leagues as a item to point to as a concern.

Since we didn't watch shot selection or 30+ Stony Brook games, we have to assume the numbers are the same (Kiss shooting percentages were about the same, just less attempts etc). Maybe he's coached with better options around him at RU and takes better shots here and his percentages are higher here BUT the B1G opponents defense is better, so we land him where he was last year, when he was the primary scoring option.

My easier measurable is Eugene as a junior vs Harper as a freshman or project forward to Harper into his sophomore season. It's not that far apart and Harper is based on the numbers below, the overall better and more efficient player. Harper is with the stats, not emotion....

A) The overall better basketball player
B) The more efficient basketball player
C) The better overall shooter
D) The better shooter from 3 point range
E) The better player who takes care of the ball

Harper trails Eugene in PPG and RPG, but that can be explained with the stat line, minutes per game and touches per game. I am going to go with the games since Eugene returned from the injury in January, since that allowed more minutes for others to play and get comfortable.

OMOYURI since returning from injury vs Nebraska.

13.00 PPG
6.85 RPG
63-150 FG (42%)
2-12 3 PT FG (16.66%)
53-72 FT's (73.6%)
43 Assists (very good passer when players were available)
31 Turnovers (2.2 per game)
31.14 Minutes per game
14 Total games post injury
10.71 Shot attempts per game

HARPER Jr. since EO injury vs Ohio State

8.94 PPG
3.68 RPG
59-134 FG (44%)
23-68 3 PT (33.82%)
25-34 FT (73.5%)
19 Assists
13 Turnovers (0.72 per game)
25.61 Minutes per game
18 Total games post EO injury
7.44 Shot attempts per game

Obviously there are factors to consider since the players both started games together, but the trend line is a little more defined if I reduce it to Harper's last 8 games, after the OT loss at Illinois...keep in mind, I can include the Illinois game and they still stand out pretty well. Harper went 0-7 from 3 vs Illinois, but made the tying 2 pointer to force OT...finished 6-15, 15 points (0-7 from 3), 3-3 FT's, 6 boards, and no turnovers.

Harper's last 8 games are below.

12.0 PPG
3.37 RPG
35-66 FG (53%)
13-34 3 PT (38.2%)
10-14 FT (71.4%)
10 Turnovers (1.25 per game)
28.5 Minutes per game
Final 8 games of season
8.25 Shot attempts per game

I know it doesn't fit what the storyline is or adds clicks here or on Twitter....it was shocking to hear Eugene departing, but this roster has the firepower and will be more efficient with Harper and Yeboah.

Eugene averaged 2.5 turnovers in the last 8 games of the season, to Harper's 1.25 turnovers in the same games.

I could simplify this by stating Harper hit 21 more 3's in the games since EO went down......How many shot attempts will Yeboah pick up???....

What if it's the 10 or 11 that Eugene had....?? With the same minutes per game that Eugene had or perhaps 5 to 6 minutes less per game, he's going to make more 3's, shoot the same FT % and shoot s similar FG%.I feel comfortable landing Yeboah exactly where Eugene was as a worse case scenario, but he's a better shooter from 3, so if he takes 11 to 12 shots per game, RU will score more PPG. They average the same FT attempts per game, IMO.

Feel free to fire away, these are the numbers or raw data. And since we are adding Yeboah and Harper, you cannot say RU was going to be better with all 3 of Eugene, Harper and Yeboah....two of the 3 are drastically more efficient than Eugene.....There are only so many touches, only one basketball and only so many shot attempts or possessions per game and someone's stat line was going to look different.

Good arguments both ways on this board as to the impact of UO departure. We really don’t know. Very simply. What we do know is our depth took a hit. Period.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don’t fully agree with SS and NJH viewpoint that our offense will be better without EO, but totally respect the opinion. I do think the ball at times stuck with him too much and a fear it could get worse as a senior is legitimate.

Does this team have guys that will step up and take and make tough shots?

 

[dkostus]

I don’t fully agree with SS and NJH viewpoint that our offense will be better without EO, but totally respect the opinion. I do think the ball at times stuck with him too much and a fear it could get worse as a senior is legitimate.

Does this team have guys that will step up and take and make tough shots?

While I dont want to reference a 'fictional Yeboah' you have previously cited, he appears (in real life) to be someone who will pull the trigger on a 3 coming off a screen much faster than most of our current roster. According to highlights, of course, but he shot a $hit ton of threes in those highlights

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

While I dont want to reference a 'fictional Yeboah' you have previously cited, he appears (in real life) to be someone who will pull the trigger on a 3 coming off a screen much faster than most of our current roster. According to highlights, of course, but he shot a $hit ton of threes in those highlights

noted and needed and he had a 26.7% usage....wasnt just taking "Issa 3s"

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I don’t fully agree with SS and NJH viewpoint that our offense will be better without EO, but totally respect the opinion. I do think the ball at times stuck with him too much and a fear it could get worse as a senior is legitimate.

Does this team have guys that will step up and take and make tough shots?

It is not a viewpoint or opinion...

Yeboah took the following shot attempts at Stony Brook

132 3s pointers as a freshman...34.1 %

166 3 pointers as a sophomore...35.3%

209 3 pointers as a junior.....31.6%

Even if you want to shave 4 to 5% off his 3 point shooting percentages here, he's still at 30%....which I can live with...

But if he's a worse case 30 to 31% shooter from 3 and he takes 180 (6 per game....that's about 2 makes per game...even 150 next year is 5 per game or 2 to 3 per half....not totally out of the question.

Eugene player 31 minutes and averaged 11 attempts per game...even if Yeboah took 6 3s a game and made 2, you still have 4 to 5 other attempts/drives from 2 point range. Mix in a couple of FTs and he's right at 13 to 15 PPG. If he shoots less and RHJ shoots more, same percentages and better efficiency.

Eugene's inability to be a willing 3 point shooter is a huge problem when he's not a dominating quick player offensively and not able to take defenders off the dribble and had limited mobility.

I don't see the issue, other than being blindsided with the transfer. RU wasn't going to win games night in and night out, with Eugene leading in shot attempts, touches and minutes played. Especially when you're not a threat from 3.

If you gave me the Eugene in the 1st 2 games vs Drexel and FDU, hitting 6 of 7 from 3, totally different ballgame....once teams started to defend RU differently and the level of competition went up, his inability or choosing not to shoot 3s AND holding the ball too much AND having too many turnovers AND being injured and not able to defend....i don't see what else people want to see.....this isn't made up or pulled out of thin air.....I don't see the loss, other than a lot of hype.....anyone can argue on his behalf, the numbers don't support it anywhere as the primary, go to player....

RUs win loss record when Eugene is under 10 shot attempts per game, after the injury.

WIN vs Nebraska 2 of 9 FG
WIN at Penn State 2 of 9 FG
LOSS at Illinois in OT 3-6 FG
LOSS Iowa via miracle by Iowa 3-7 FG
WIN at Iowa 3-7 FG

I could argue very easily RU could have been 5-0 in those 5 games when he took less than 10 shots and those extra shot attempts went elsewhere.

In games with double digit shot attempts for EO

WIN Indiana...5-11 FG 0 3s 1 TOs

LOSS Ohio State 7-11 FG, 0 3s, 2 TOs

LOSS Michigan 8-17 FG, 1 3's, 3 TOs

WIN Northwestern 4-12 FG, 1 3, 5 TOs

LOSS MSU 4-13 FG, 0 3's, 2 TOs

WIN Minnesota 6-15 FG, 0 3's, 1 TOs

LOSS PSU 7-14 FG, 0 3's, 3 TOs

LOSS Indiana 5-10 FG, 0 3's, 4 TOs

LOSS Nebraska 6-12 FG, 0 3's, 2 TOs

RU 3-2 with EO under 10 attempts after he returned

RU 3-6 with EO over 10 attempts after he returned.

The 3-2 should be 5-0 or.4-1, if not for some spotty refs at Illinois and/or a miracle 3 by Iowa...

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

NJH,

Will Wisconsin miss Ethan Happ?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

[QUOTE="NewJerseyHawk, post: 3878208, member: 2870" RU wasn't going to win games night in and night out, with Eugene leading in shot attempts, touches and minutes played. Especially when you're not a threat from 3.

.[/QUOTE]

Sorry can't let this one go.....We were 7-10 in B1G with Eugene doing all of that. We were 0-3 with him out in our worst 3 game stretch of the year.

 

[kcg88]

KGC and I are going to look at RHJs usage. Only 3 games in that span was he at 20%. Will his efficiency be there when those numbers approach 25%

Sophomore Issa was very efficient. When all you do is take the “Issa 3” you better shoot it at 40% and be real efficient.

Without Eugene coming in at 27% who takes up the load and does their efficiency suffer?

Caleb and Ron can shoot it. We know that. Can they stay efficient and be in the 22% range?

Agree about the usage but Harper's was in the same range as guys like Wieskamp and higher than Myles Dread. Going from 20.9% to 22-23% isn't a wild jump.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I had him at 16.9% in conference

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

NJH,

Will Wisconsin miss Ethan Happ?

Personally I don't think so....if you have a normal forward who can stretch the floor and is a better FT shooter, Wisconsin's other players would be better off. Trice (to me) is a tremendous guard and in a quicker and looser system, would score more....Davison is a smart guard who is a little limited with some injuries.

I equate this to fans stating Michigan State was in deep trouble once Nick Ward was injured....in steps Tillman, Henry and Goins all getting more minutes and able to shoot from.12 to 18 feet....offense looks significantly better and defense goes from very good and at times, unable to keep up with shooters at Michigan or Duke, to matchup much better and stop two very dangerous offensive teams.

You have to be an overwhelmingly good low post offensive player and FT shooter to play significant minutes and not have it impact your roster, if it has players who can score in a variety of ways inside 15 feet. Eugene, at this stage, post 2 injuries to the same knee is not even Deshawn Freeman.

He developed into a better passer, dribbler and creative offensive player this past season, but similar to Freeman, when he got the ball, it stopped or slowed down, because that's the strength of their offense.

But Freeman, for some of the limitations on shooting range, was quicker, a better finisher in traffic and could at least elevate to the basket, but was 6'5 to 6'6. At this stage, I cannot see Eugene being better than Freeman was next year or even being a better version of Eugene this past year, when he was somewhat healthy prior to Ohio State. The metrics still say 42 to 43% from 2 point range, not 50-55%.

The "comparable" of what a best case scenario is, would be a Caleb Wesson of Ohio State....huge interior player, but limited defensively....but Wesson is 50% from the field and took 75 3s, probably because he was left wide open....made 26 of 75 from 3....he is a 14.6 and 7 RPG player, but is 6'9 and a player you must double, unless you have a shot blocking or defensive matchup to control him.....otherwise he kills you like the 2nd matchup in Columbus.

Nick Ward gives you 13 and 6 all day long, but plays on a Top 5 or 10 caliber program....and he shoots 58 60% from 2....and I'll maintain that's rare to be that efficient and even with that, he's a liability defensively and cant play more than 22 to 24 minutes without being exposed.

Eugene is not 6'9", not an automatic 2 points...Wesson is 6'8 or 6'9....and is 50% from, but willing to shoot an occasional shot from 3.

Happ, Wesson, Ward are all better, bigger players that impact their rosters, but I would not attempt to compare Eugene to any of the 3 B1G comparables....without even looking, I can probably guess he carries as much or more usage, touches and shot attempts other than Happ.....

There's no way RU isn't better with a more efficient player with that many touches and shot attempts, without being a 3 point threat. Those shots need to be spread out elsewhere OR come from 3 point range, where you open up driving lanes and other opportunities for others.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

Please tell us what you’ve been hearing about McConnell and Mulcahy!

Personally I don't think so....if you have a normal forward who can stretch the floor and is a better FT shooter, Wisconsin's other players would be better off. Trice (to me) is a tremendous guard and in a quicker and looser system, would score more....Davison is a smart guard who is a little limited with some injuries.

I equate this to fans stating Michigan State was in deep trouble once Nick Ward was injured....in steps Tillman, Henry and Goins all getting more minutes and able to shoot from.12 to 18 feet....offense looks significantly better and defense goes from very good and at times, unable to keep up with shooters at Michigan or Duke, to matchup much better and stop two very dangerous offensive teams.

You have to be an overwhelmingly good low post offensive player and FT shooter to play significant minutes and not have it impact your roster, if it has players who can score in a variety of ways inside 15 feet. Eugene, at this stage, post 2 injuries to the same knee is not even Deshawn Freeman.

He developed into a better passer, dribbler and creative offensive player this past season, but similar to Freeman, when he got the ball, it stopped or slowed down, because that's the strength of their offense.

But Freeman, for some of the limitations on shooting range, was quicker, a better finisher in traffic and could at least elevate to the basket, but was 6'5 to 6'6. At this stage, I cannot see Eugene being better than Freeman was next year or even being a better version of Eugene this past year, when he was somewhat healthy prior to Ohio State. The metrics still say 42 to 43% from 2 point range, not 50-55%.

The "comparable" of what a best case scenario is, would be a Caleb Wesson of Ohio State....huge interior player, but limited defensively....but Wesson is 50% from the field and took 75 3s, probably because he was left wide open....made 26 of 75 from 3....he is a 14.6 and 7 RPG player, but is 6'9 and a player you must double, unless you have a shot blocking or defensive matchup to control him.....otherwise he kills you like the 2nd matchup in Columbus.

Nick Ward gives you 13 and 6 all day long, but plays on a Top 5 or 10 caliber program....and he shoots 58 60% from 2....and I'll maintain that's rare to be that efficient and even with that, he's a liability defensively and cant play more than 22 to 24 minutes without being exposed.

Eugene is not 6'9", not an automatic 2 points...Wesson is 6'8 or 6'9....and is 50% from, but willing to shoot an occasional shot from 3.

Happ, Wesson, Ward are all better, bigger players that impact their rosters, but I would not attempt to compare Eugene to any of the 3 B1G comparables....without even looking, I can probably guess he carries as much or more usage, touches and shot attempts other than Happ.....

There's no way RU isn't better with a more efficient player with that many touches and shot attempts, without being a 3 point threat. Those shots need to be spread out elsewhere OR come from 3 point range, where you open up driving lanes and other opportunities for others.

Pl

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

[QUOTE="NewJerseyHawk, post: 3878208, member: 2870" RU wasn't going to win games night in and night out, with Eugene leading in shot attempts, touches and minutes played. Especially when you're not a threat from 3.

.

Sorry can't let this one go.....We were 7-10 in B1G with Eugene doing all of that. We were 0-3 with him out in our worst 3 game stretch of the year.[/QUOTE]

I would say 1 and 3, if you count Ohio State at home, when he played 7 minutes and RU won. There is adjustment period without Eugene and the next 3 games were at Minnesota at Purdue and home for Northwestern.

Eugene playing or not was not going to impact either game on the road, although I would give you the possibility that we beat Northwestern at home, with a healthy Eugene. But I would pin the Northwestern game on poor defense by Thiam, in losing track of shooting Ryan Taylor and a bad offensive game across the board by RU.

Less Thiam and less Eugene opened up the options for others from post injury forward, Thiam and Eugene were huge limitations as a tandem in the 1st half of the season.

RU improved in the 2nd half of the season, against better competition, better opponents coaching and game planning. The team is better with better and more efficient and complete basketball players who can dribble, shoot, drive and pass. Thiam and Eugene were both Incomplete offensive players. Yeboah and Harper are more complete basketball players overall.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I''ve stated for 6 to 9 months how much I love Mulcahy BUT he has 1 huge hurdle....being a willing shooter from 3....

If you are going to ask Mulcahy at any point and time to be your full time PG next year or in the future, he absolutely must not be just reliant on slashing/drives to the basket and has to develop a willing shot from distance.

Teams in this league are too good in scouting reports and as good as he is off the dribble as a playmaker, it could be a huge liability if he's not a confident shooter. He could dribble himself into turnovers by passing up shot attempts because that is the scouting report.

Caleb and Mulcahy are both doing well from what I have heard. Now, if Mulcahy takes the steps this summer to get stronger AND is just an OK 3 point shooter (22 -24%), RU becomes very much improved

My issues with RU are defense, or lacking athletic ability in the front court AND not having a shot altering player or a quicker PF who can close out on shooters or switch defensively. Jay Young gets a lot of credit for RUs defense, but the roster in Year 1 and 2, had better athletes in Freeman, Corey Sanders, Nigel Johnson, Eugene at full speed and Mike Williams took extreme pride in rebounding and defending.

This past season showed huge gaps on defense but, because the offense was significantly better across the board as a shooting team, RU improved dramatically. It will be better than last year with Yeboah as an offensive force and others, despite the defense not being as good and even without a PF who can defend, run and jump

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You answered the question consistently. I get your argument and agree the NCAA 4 has to knockdown perimeter shots. I argued the NCAA 1 can't be a non entity from 3 and the same arguments I was making against sanders you are making against Eugene.

So let's give you your offensive argument because you may be right.

Let's look at a different angle......
We both follow things pretty closely. I think we can both agree teammates had the respect for Eugene, and he was a lead by example player, but he wasn't a leader. To a man I'd bet he wasn't well liked. He came across, at least to me, as above everyone else.

Having said that he was our defensive identity. Not a coincidence that the 2 games after he was hurt we had 2 disgusting no shows defensively. The only thing left on the roster that has the defensive identity is Mathis. However he is still young (not physically) and his motor isn't always on.

My biggest fear is 2-3 steps back defensively with Eugene.

A completely different angle......
The knee. Armageddon to 2019-20 was a unhealthy Eugene trying to play through at 50%. That would have been diasterous as he would not have taken to reduced minutes kindly.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I''ve stated for 6 to 9 months how much I love Mulcahy BUT he has 1 huge hurdle....being a willing shooter from 3....

Tough seeing him on the court with Mathis unless Mathis improves his shooting.

Defense is the other issue.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

NJH,

You are also making an assumption that Eugene doesn't improve his outside shooting. He has added to his game every offseason.

He is a good passer and has a good handle at his position

 

[kcg88]

I had him at 16.9% in conference

Sorry, I was looking at Shot%. KenPom has Harper at 17.4% in conference play for Usage Rate.

One thing about Harper is that he has a very good turnover rate so his usage rate "takes a hit" in that sense. If he had more possessions end in turnovers, his usage rate would've been higher.

 

[Scarlet83]

Hawk - EO is a good passer for a 4. And a lot of his passes led to easy baskets for others. So for anyone that pounds the table that EO slowed the offense down when he got the rock, you really have to also credit him for his passing and his assists.

I don’t see you doing that.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sorry, I was looking at Shot%. KenPom has Harper at 17.4% in conference play for Usage Rate.

One thing about Harper is that he has a very good turnover rate so his usage rate "takes a hit" in that sense. If he had more possessions end in turnovers, his usage rate would've been higher.

I probably need to try and find the usage formula to understand what it really measures. I’d think both assists and turnovers are inputs.

My eye tells me we can’t anoint anything to Caleb or Ron until they add more “volume”.

Geo has bad percentages, which need to improve, but he clearly is willing to take shots.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Issa was the extreme. If we had 5 Issas we’d be efficient but never score. 80% of possessions would end in a horn.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Issa who ? Eugene who ?

 

[kcg88]

I probably need to try and find the usage formula to understand what it really measures. I’d think both assists and turnovers are inputs.

My eye tells me we can’t anoint anything to Caleb or Ron until they add more “volume”.

Geo has bad percentages, which need to improve, but he clearly is willing to take shots.

Poss% is only shots made, shots resulting in a defensive rebound, or turnovers.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Poss% is only shots made, shots resulting in a defensive rebound, or turnovers.

looks like no assists

 

[kcg88]

looks like no assists

Gotcha. Not sure what Bart uses for his formula. Has to be relatively close to KP's.

 

[linzalonic]

Don’t minimize Eugene’s charges. Charges terminate possessions where blocks result in a rebound opportunity if blocked in bounds.

If he averaged 1 per game it moves the defensive efficiency needle a bunch.

He also committed a fair amount of fouls on unsuccessful attempts to draw charges. I think he went for them too much.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Eugene who ?

6n4

 

[Scangg]

He also committed a fair amount of fouls on unsuccessful attempts to draw charges. I think he went for them too much.

And flops that were no calls and easy buckets. He went for charges too often. Fell in love with it when sound defense was called for and a charge attempt was a bad decision

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Cmon guys....every guy taking charges is going to get some wrong. Every guy who blocks shots will miss some and leave the offensive rebounder wide open.

I am all in being concerned about ball movement on offense, but this is over the top.

 

[Scangg]

While I dont want to reference a 'fictional Yeboah' you have previously cited, he appears (in real life) to be someone who will pull the trigger on a 3 coming off a screen much faster than most of our current roster. According to highlights, of course, but he shot a $hit ton of threes in those highlights

FIG admitted to not watching any of Yeboah which explains his skepticism. Still has plenty to say though for some reason

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

FIG admitted to not watching any of Yeboah which explains his skepticism. Still has plenty to say though for some reason

My life is certainly not all that busy, with that being said i don't have an interest in watching Stony Brook games to see him play. If anyone is gathering info from highlight tapes....

Too busy watching this....

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I did actually watch 1/2 of that highlight video and NONE OF THE NBPA FINALS

 

[Scangg]

My life is certainly not all that busy, with that being said i don't have an interest in watching Stony Brook games to see him play. If anyone is gathering info from highlight tapes....

It is obviously better than having an opinion without watching the player at all. How can anyone take your opinion seriously if you haven't seen him play? Pretty ridiculous

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Hawk - EO is a good passer for a 4. And a lot of his passes led to easy baskets for others. So for anyone that pounds the table that EO slowed the offense down when he got the rock, you really have to also credit him for his passing and his assists.

I don’t see you doing that.

I am taking the sample size from Ohio State forward. 43 assists to 31 turnovers. It's Ok....maybe it should have been higher assists because we blew a layup or missed an easy shot.

Maybe there are "hockey assists", where the 2nd pass led to a basket.

All comes down to the notion fans buying that he was the best player....he was the player who scored the most per game and grabbed the most rebounds per game and let the front court in minutes played.

My notion is, he's not a #1, 2, 3rd or 4th option, anywhere on this planet, for a program geared to win games. He is a player caught in the crossfire of a violent rebuild, that will have a couple of casualties during this process. In order to move the program forward, we need better players to play a complete game of basketball on both ends and not be a one or two dimensional player.

Does that mean he's the 7th best player in our 9 or 10 man rotation?? I'm not going that far, but he would not have started this coming season, with Yeboah, Harper playing on this roster IMO.

That may be a harsh but reasonable and documented assessment that takes the emotional aspect of items that dont factor in to stats, metrics and other aspects that are thrown around like warrior and leadership.

I'm looking to win games, not appease players who believe they're entitled to play 30 minutes a night, take the most amount of shots, and monopolize the ball at times.

If we are talking about leadership and warrior mentality, Mike Williams is my definition. He's not or wasn't physically as talented as others and perhaps not the scoring threat like Eugene. But he deferred to a freshman like Geo, bought in as his role, kept his head down and impacted the game without the basketball.

He found other ways to contribute and saw a larger picture....it's called "buying in" and Eugene didn't do that. He bought in by playing hurt when he didn't have to and that's as far as I'm willing to go.

At a crossroads when a more efficient player started to emerge in Harper and others, the ball started sticking more to him, when he got it...he, at times, tried to do things on his own, when he physically didn't have the ability to do so. That is not his fault, but he decided to bounce.....

He decided to bounce because he was being passed by.....he was not ever RUs best player on skill level IMO....he could've deferred for the betterment of the program and saw the writing on the wall. Step back and evaluate the larger picture, reward a coach who opened doors and entrusted a leadership role.

What did he do, when perhaps things were passing him by and better talent was emerging or being recruited as targets....he skipped town at Midnight, without the respect I feel, our program warranted....and without the skill level, warranting a pass.

He is a player I believe helped rebuild the program, but that's as much as I'm giving him. He's not Mike Williams who showed what that means and set a high standard for buying in.