Is the clock didn’t start at the right time after the missed free throw. There was 5 seconds left when Caleb shot free throw. The rebounder caught the ball and passed it to #2 and when #2 caught the ball there was still seconds left. I have to think that at least a second should have transpired between the rebound and the pass. The ball left the shooter’s hands with .5 seconds left, so the clock operator is complicit in us losing. This is a clear cut violation of a home team clock operator ****ing us. That should be reviewed and conference should time that pass to #2 and change the verdict of the game
The thing that pisses me off the most about last play
- Thread starter mugrat86
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Yeah this has been discussed in other threads there were 3 times where the clock operator started or stopped the clock too early or late game should have been over with no shot
My point is the clock operator is likely a Buckeye fan and that is something easy to monitor and say that Rutgers was cheated
I timed it a few times, and by my estimation the clock on the last play started 0.4 to 0.5 seconds late at the most. But the ball left the shooters hand with 0.6 seconds still showing on the clock, so he might still have gotten the shot off even with a competent (or ethical) clock operator. Regardless, it was an insane play. Everything that could've gone wrong for RU did, whether it be the clock operation, the refs missing calls, or the extremely low percentage shot going in.
Just curious how did you time it? The reason I ask is. Try starting a stopwatch on iPhone and then try stopping it as fast as you could. I could not do it in under .26 seconds. It seems impossible to catch the ball and pass it 15 feet and only .4 seconds go off
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Obviously not officially, which is why I said by my estimation. Used stopwatch along with DVR video on regular speed multiple times when timing it, and also on 0.25 speed multiple times to make it easier to see the game clock on the screen at any given point during the play. I paused the video just as the ball cleared the shooter's hand and did it several times until I had a freeze frame of the ball just after it left his hands and the time from the television screen game clock. That's the best I could do.
No how did you time the period between the rebound and the pass. There is no way it could only take .4 seconds for a player to rebound the ball and then make a 15 foot pass
Understand the clock operator used to work the Tennessee Woman's games back in the day ...
Guys - you don’t need to speculate. Go zoom in on the damn 16 second you tube video clip. Hit the pause button and toggle to the point in the clip where the rebounder first touches the ball. The you tube clip just went to 2 seconds. The game clock is at 5. You can skip ahead to the point where Thorton catches the pass and begins to start his dribble. Game clock is still at 5. You can see exactly where it finally goes to 4.9. The you tube clip is at 3 seconds (and had already gone to 3 seconds just as the first passer released the ball - again you can zoom in and see this conclusively).
There is conclusive video evidence that the delay was at least a second.
There is conclusive video evidence that the delay was at least a second.
The clock starting is controlled by the referee on the court by a pack on their belt. The clock is stopped by the referee by their whistle, which has a microphone to hear it blow and is transmitted to the clock. If you ever get to a game early, you will see each referee calibrate their whistle/pack. Thus, the blame is on the refs, not the clock operator...
As per my other post on this, I have the delay at 0.7-0.8 seconds from the time the rebounder first touches the ball to when the clock starts moving from 5.0 to 4.9 seconds, when Thornton catches the ball. And the shot is released at 0.6-0.7 seconds left, so it's much closer than you're saying above, IMO, although I still think it should've been waved off. Also, clock issues in an endgame play are absolutely reviewable, unlike the OSU player stepping out of bounds before passing the ball to Holden for the winning shot and, of course, Holden voluntarily stepping OOB and then being the first person to touch the ball after being OOB, which is an absolute violation, by rule. Still sucks a day later.
Scab hasn't healed. Looong memory.
UTenn
Men's St. Johns MSG game
Last night.
What school has been more abused by refs in college sports.
I’m not sure how your getting that. I see first contact with ball at about 2.1 seconds (2.2 tops). There is no way the clock turned to 4.9 prior to 3.2.
Can't follow what you're saying, as you have minimal specificity in your description. The clock was at 5.0 seconds before the FT and should've started when first touched by the rebounder, but 0.7-0.8 seconds elapsed between being first touched and when the clock actually ticked from 5.0 to 4.9 seconds (when Thornton received the pass). I estimated that time elapsed by measuring on my screen, the distance from being rebounded and when the clock ticked to 4.9 seconds and then seeing how much time elapsed when that same distance was traveled with the clock running. That's much easier and more accurate than trying to "time" less than 1 second of elapsed time, since the video moves at a constant speed, so length does equal time elapsed. Once the clock is running, like for the shot, one doesn't need to do that as one can simply keep pausing the video and determine how much time was left on the clock at shot release, which was about 0.6-0.7 seconds.
Well, I also tried using your method using the youtubetv video time on 1/4 speed (the video time is still the same regardless of playback speed), and it's definitely not a one second delay or longer. From what I can see in slow mo it's O.7sec at the most on the video timer from the time the ball hits the rebounder's hands until the time the game clock starts to move. My video timer doesn't change to the next second until 3 or 4 tenths have already ticked off the game clock after Thornton is dribbling.
It's hard to be really accurate to the tenth of a second when timing using most video playback time, since it doesn't include tenths of a second like the game clock does, but I paid careful attention to when the second on the video timer changed in relation to the rebounder first touching the ball.
Is the video that you're timing from calibrated in tenths of a second?
Respectfully …the clock operator is the official on the court . They have a remote control that is black on the refs belt.
This was another one on the refs…but not home cooking
Is there a way to attach short videos from a phone on here without publishing them to you tube? I couldn’t figure out how to do it.
I’m just freezing the video and looking at the you tube clip timer. You can freeze it right when the 16 second clip moved to the 4 second mark and see the game clock at 4.3. Thorton is starting his dribble. So only 7 tenths of a second had come off by that point.
You can also freeze the screen with the ball in the air on its way down after hitting the rim from Caleb’s missed shot and see the you tube clip clock was still at 1 second. Assume the you tube clock is at 1.9 there.
That means there was a min of 2.1 seconds between that point when the ball was already on its way down for the rebound to be grabbed and the point I froze where the game clock had only shaved 0.7 seconds. So that’s 1.4 seconds unaccounted for - of that, the clock only shouldn’t have been running for the few tenths of a second it took for the ball to finish coming down and get touched by the rebounder. Anyone who thinks it took as much time (0.7/0.7) or more time for the ball to finish coming down and first touch the rebounder as it did for the rebounder to then secure the ball, pass it to Thorton, Thorton secure the ball and also begin his dribble motion, well I don’t know what to tell you.
If I could figure out how to post pics of the time stamp I would. Technology isn’t my strong point. Anyone can easily freeze and see what I’m talking about though.
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You guys are making the same mistake that Purdue fans made last year when they claimed the clock started late on RHJ's buzzer beater:
You are assuming the clock at the bottom of the TV screen is accurate. It is not. It is out of sync with the game clock. You can see this clearly if you pause the video when the TV clock shows there is 30.6 seconds left in the game and 4.5 seconds left on the shot clock. At that point you can clearly see the game clock on top of the basket which shows 30.2 seconds left in the game and 4.1 seconds on the shot clock.
You can't see the game clock over the basket when OSU rebounds the ball after the missed free throw, but you can see the game clock over the basket as Holden releases his illegal buzzer-beater. The game clock goes to 0.0 just after the ball leaves Holden's hand, but the TV clock still reads 0.4.
The game clock is not an issue here. The two out-of-bounds no-calls are the issue.
You are assuming the clock at the bottom of the TV screen is accurate. It is not. It is out of sync with the game clock. You can see this clearly if you pause the video when the TV clock shows there is 30.6 seconds left in the game and 4.5 seconds left on the shot clock. At that point you can clearly see the game clock on top of the basket which shows 30.2 seconds left in the game and 4.1 seconds on the shot clock.
You can't see the game clock over the basket when OSU rebounds the ball after the missed free throw, but you can see the game clock over the basket as Holden releases his illegal buzzer-beater. The game clock goes to 0.0 just after the ball leaves Holden's hand, but the TV clock still reads 0.4.
The game clock is not an issue here. The two out-of-bounds no-calls are the issue.
A few days removed
1. Refs are humans and they make mistakes
2. How many officials would have correctly made the coming back inbounds call?
3. How many posters blasting the officials would have made the correct call if they were officials?
4. Most of us watch a lot of basketball….how many times have you seen that infraction called? It just doesn’t happen often.
1. Refs are humans and they make mistakes
2. How many officials would have correctly made the coming back inbounds call?
3. How many posters blasting the officials would have made the correct call if they were officials?
4. Most of us watch a lot of basketball….how many times have you seen that infraction called? It just doesn’t happen often.
That’s a fair point - the red light on the backboard comes on in the video with 0.4 seconds remaining on the TV screen game clock. Regardless even if you assume the real game clock was at 3.9 not 4.3 at 4 seconds into the video,there’s still a whole second unaccounted for from the point the rebound was coming down and the time Thorton started his dribblr motion. At least half of that (probably more) had to have been subsequent to the rebounder touching the ball.
Should we also overturn the phantom foul giving Quincy Douby 2 shots against SHU with no time left.
I'd love to see our fan reactions to Seton Hall fans being upset after it occurred.
I'd love to see our fan reactions to Seton Hall fans being upset after it occurred.
I can honestly say I thought the initial player stepped out from the sight line of my couch while the ref three steps behind the play had his eyes focused skyward.
Not for nothing but try throwing a basketball 50 mph…
Most healthy men between 18-30 can barely hit 70 with a baseball and windup.,,
2. Hopefully all of them. He was so far ridiculously blatantly out of bounds RIGHT where the play was happening. There is really no excuse at all to miss it
3. Fans aren't refs. Fans might not know the ins and outs of obscure rarely used rules. Refs are expected to know them. It's their profession
It’s not the same thing at all. Fouls are subjective. Calls go both ways throughout a game.
If the whistle was supposed to blow right when Holden stepped out and didn’t - I’d be more okay with the lack of review. Then it’s more like a blatantly missed traveling call followed by a buzzer beater shot. There -the defender should continue playing defense on the shooter until a whistle blows. In this case - Mag did the right thing in leaving Holden because Holden was not eligible to receive a pass and therefore could not have legally been a threat to score a basket in regulation based on the amount of time left. That decision led directly to the open look. The violation caused it.
There is a lot to look at for 3 officials to see. Yes their vision should be wider to what is happening on the court, but the primary focus really is being in the best position to call a foul if a foul occurs on the shooter. That call or non call is going to be the play 99% of the time. They aren't thinking (until now) is a player off the court coming on the court. Obviously theu should, but they have officiated thousands of games and it isn't something that ever occurs (except for maybe under the basket)
There’s no way the refs didn’t see that Holden was out of bounds. Regardless of what the official statement says, they didn’t recall the technicalities of the rule in that moment which is why shame on them not to call for a review. It all happened with under a second on the game clock. A whistle after the buzzer wouldn’t even qualify as a late whistle. So it’s hard to even classify it as a missed call.
That is a separate arguement that would be a problem for me.
I am OK with the officials missing the player out of bounds coming back in.
I would not be OK with them not knowing the rule.
You don’t honestly believe all 3 floor refs did not see Holden go out of bounds at any point do you? That seems impossible. He emerged from out of bounds to catch the pass. The only plausible possibility is that they didn’t see how he ended up out of bounds in the first place and assumed it was based on momentum - but why is it fair for them to make that assumption rather than review the play?
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