We will know in 366 days...

[letitrip2]

By any measure this has been a very disappointing start to the Ash era. This board has laid out both points of view pretty clearly. 1) Ash is new and did not have the time to recruit vs. 2) there are other programs in the same conference, or even lesser conferences, with new coaches and they found a way to sign decent classes.

Given the sting of supporting coach flood up until the academic and off the field issues (despite 3 very mediocre recruiting classes) I am on red flag alert already. Natural reaction I guess from 36 years as a season ticket holder.

Of course I will support HCCA but 2 things must happen during the upcoming year:

1) A disciplined team that "improves every game" must take the field each week (even if we have early blowout loses we need to get better each week)

"and"

2) Next years recruiting class must be much much improved - top 30 or so.

If these 2 benchmarks occur we will feel the "momentum" of a 3-4 year plan that will lead us to be a competitive member of the B1G. If "both" do not occur we are looking at more years of bottom feeding - The next year is absolutely critical.....

 

[RUBlackout]

This is so funny to me! While I do agree with your point #1 in improving throughout the season, your point #2 is nearly impossible. How many top 30 classes did we have under schiano, who actually had momentum from the 2006 season?

People are really setting themselves up for failure and Ash is already doomed to fail based on message board posters. This guy took over a program that was being run more like a kindergarten than a top level D1 program. That has lingering effects in recruiting which we all witnessed yet out the blame on Ash. All of our decommits were already in the works before Ash even took place. I blame flood for the past few years and truly put it in his superiors more than anything for not investing properly in the program.

I think some people need to take a step back from the ledge and realistically look at the bigger picture of where this program was when Ash took over. We almost had more people in jail than on our commitment list. Let's give Ash a chance to prove himself with his vision. Give him 2-3yrs and if things are not panning out than we have something to complain about. Otherwise, support your team!! If I were a recruit or parent of a recruit reading these boards I wouldn't want any part of this program necause of those diehards that are closest to the team aren't supportive why would I have interest.

 

[rufeelinit]

I agree that top 30 is a stretch. Top 40~45 would alleviate any concerns I have. Particularly if he does show the ability to keep us competitive in most games this coming season.

 

[Saint Puppy]

I think in general people are being unrealistic with Ash.

1. The situation he is coming into vs. the one Flood came into are night and day.
2. He's been on the job full time about a month or so - crazy to think recruits were just going to start following him here.
3. The next season and (and the season after that) will probably not being very good ones - not what people want to hear, but most likely the truth.
4. Everybody kept saying how many years Flood was setting this program back - well here it is. Ash is just not going to come in here and undo all the damage Flood has done over the years in a few months.

I hate to say it, but I think the key word is patience with Ash (not something I like or am very good at either).

 

[jreinsdorf]

RU is in one of the top 2 conferences in the country in the B1G. RU in in arguably the toughest (read attractive) division in the country being in the B1G east. RU is in a top 12 state for producing talent. No reason a top 35 or even top 30 class should be out of reach with a lot of hard work by our energetic staff. Not to mention the fact that it will be a huge class signed next year.

 

[KnightsofChrome]

The opinion of the OP, is that of a "fans." Fans who are consistently unrealistic in their approach to any sport. The "other" coaches have filled the recruiting class in their respective Universities with kids they thought they needed. Listen to Ash! This is not same o, same o. Stars are for the fans and recruits, coaches should recruit based on perspective needs, philosophy, and player potential within their program!
I think Ash has done that. Look at all the common denominators these recruits share, integrity, heart, drive, toughness, fight, intelligence, and then ability. Ash is setting the groundwork for a program. Want instant gratification, go to the dog track!
Now, if his plan fails, say three, four years, then you can start wondering if this program is on the right course, or mission. Until then, enjoy the ride.

 

[RUChoppin]

While not quite as severe as the OP, I am also expecting a significant bump in recruiting next year.

Ash's team, on paper, is made up of a bunch of guys who have had success recruiting. We need a much improved level of recruiting to compete in what is arguably the hardest division in college football. While I give the staff a pass on this first year given circumstances, I'm expecting much more next year. I wouldn't necessarily say "Top 30", but this staff has to show a serious bump next year in the number of top players coming in.

I think Ash knows that as well or better than we do.

 

[Pritz99]

ALREADY Saint Puppy and Knights of Chrome are making excuses for NEXT year! Rightly or wrongly, Ash hurt the recruiting potential by staying in Ohio for two weeks. Some of the excitement of the new hire was squandered. If there's no buzz for the NEXT recruiting class then we're probably done.

I'm hoping...praying that's not the case. I DO like what I see from Ash and I believe he'll get it done.

 

[lighty]

4. Everybody kept saying how many years Flood was setting this program back - well here it is. Ash is just not going to come in here and undo all the damage Flood has done over the years in a few months.

It's funny how many people forget that the warning signs were sounded years ago. Guess they just didn't want to believe it back then 'cause the coach was a "nice guy"

 

[RUchip]

Although fair I think the critism of Ash is unwarranted.

Some of you still don't realize how much of a upgrade this is over Flood. Talking light years.

Chris Ash can coach and I 100% believe he will win. Otherwise he would have never left OSU. Same thing for Herman who nearly went undefeated and beat Florida State in a bowl. Just wait and see and give him time.

 

[cRURah]

Its unrealistic expectations like this that set us up for failure. Ash is "selling" Rutgers, a school that even during its best years on the field has accomplished nothing of national significance. His peers in the division are "selling" some of the most revered college football programs that ever existed that only continue to get stronger in recruiting, facilities, support, exposure and reputation. He's probably a smart guy but he's going up against some of the most experienced and successful coaches on the planet on game day and he's competing with lesser talent on the field. It's not going to be easy to move forward. Let's start with a culture change introducing a strong work ethic and discipline to the football program. I don't see how being perceived as a perpetual doormat in one of the toughest divisions in college football is going to give him an advantage in recruiting.

 

[WhiteBus]

I think in general people are being unrealistic with Ash.

1. The situation he is coming into vs. the one Flood came into are night and day.
2. He's been on the job full time about a month or so - crazy to think recruits were just going to start following him here.
3. The next season and (and the season after that) will probably not being very good ones - not what people want to hear, but most likely the truth.
4. Everybody kept saying how many years Flood was setting this program back - well here it is. Ash is just not going to come in here and undo all the damage Flood has done over the years in a few months.

I hate to say it, but I think the key word is patience with Ash (not something I like or am very good at either).

This. People putting Flood's failures on Coach Ash is mind boggling.

 

[RUChoppin]

Some of you still don't realize how much of a upgrade this is over Flood. Talking light years.

That's a low bar to clear. It remains to be seen whether he'll be a competitive coach in the Big Ten East Division - both on the field and in recruits' living rooms.

I've already said I'm giving him a pass for the 2016 recruiting class and season to get his legs under him, build relationships with HS coaches, and change the culture/system. I'm expecting the 2017 class and season to show marked improvement.

 

[brista21]

The 2016 recruiting class was always going to be patchwork due to the coaching change. The 2016 season was going to look similar to last season because Flood ran things into the ground. Unless its purely coaching and not talent on the roster like say Michigan this past year, the new head coach is not going to have a magical year 1 turnaround. The 2017 class needs to be better yes and fully stocked in numbers. I absolutely agree. But I won't put an exact number on that. The 2017 season is the absolute earliest you can expect to see a major turnaround, but I wouldn't count on it. 2018 is the next time we're going to be plausibly expected to be highly competitive.

 

[G- RUnit]

This. People putting Flood's failures on Coach Ash is mind boggling.

To be fair two years ago we were 8-5 and won a bowl game. This is not Terry Shea's Rutgers. Blaming Flood too much and have to compare to other new coaches.

 

[WhiteBus]

To be fair two years ago we were 8-5 and won a bowl game. This is not Terry Shea's Rutgers. Blaming Flood too much and have to compare to other new coaches.

Yes but the Floodies will point out his "8-5 record first year in the Big Ten" but than kill Schiano for his conference record. They need to be fair. His first year in the Big Ten was 3-5, his conference record was 12-19.
And to start blaming Ash right away is bogus especially when the situation he walked into is drastically different.
Flood was handed a great team and a great 1st recruiting class. Ash is coming into a lot less and will have to start from the ground up.

 

[CuredbywinningRU]

It is likely too early for a funeral as to Ash's potential. However, he certainly did nothing in this class to dispell my concerns voiced when he was hired as to his recruiting abilities. And I remain the only person apparently on earth who thought several parts of his acceptance speech were entirely inappropriate - especially his suggesting that there was a "culture" at RU that needs changing (a bad year of arrests, etc. does not mean a bad culture for a school that has had such a great APR track record). Also, his implication that we were not at least a decent program on the field was also palpable and inappropriate. So if we're so bad Coach Ash - why don't you get players so change that - so far you haven't in a meaningful way.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

I just think that far too many people are underestimating the damage that Flood cause and how many years the program got set back. It is shocking and highly disturbing. Were these people not paying any attention whatsoever to the past 4 years? WTF?!?

 

[ru66]

by any measure??? what the heck are you talking about??? ash's start has been better than fine unless you are just of that certain mindset that loves to find fault

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Observations from afar.

I think the OP gave a realistic assessment of what needs to happen.

To begin with don't take Ash's recruiting ranking (Rivals #76) this year too seriously.
Everyone would want it to be higher but first coaches transitioning need to be given time.

Next year will be the year that you will see how good Ash and staff are on the recruiting trail.
Next year going from #76 to #30 (Pitt went from #65 to #30) is possible and that is when you know how good he is.

Rutgers (like Pitt) is in a prime recruiting area and it is vital to keep your home grown talent. You have to feed off the Big Boys coming after them.
Just using Pitt as an example of what Rutgers needs to do.
The Greater Pittsburgh area produces a number of good recruits. Our local Paper identified 15 local seniors who good potential (Rival-4 and 3 stars). Nine of the fifteen received P5 offers. Two used football to get offers from the "Ivy League" and one is going to Penn and the other to Princeton.
Distribution of the nine top recruits: Pitt (5), Michigan (1), Penn State (1), WVU (1) and Syracuse (1).

Rutgers needs to "Dominate the State". Oh wait Jimmy already said that.

Next year Ash (Rutgers) needs to play competitive football in all of their games to prove he can develop players (short window) and prove he is a good game day coach. If Rutgers can win 6 games and go to a bowl would be a huge positive.

At this point no one can say Ash and staff are going to be successful but this time next year you will have a good indication.

Lastly, if you find a good coach you must keep him long term and your program will prosper.

Pitt is at the junction where we have to keep Narduzzi long term (ala Beamer at VT). VT(established program) also had a coaching change with more time to recruit and only got a Rivals ranking #49.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

No way next years class will in 76th.

It should be much higher than that.

Anyone who thinks it will go from 76th to top 25 in one year is just being unrealistic.

Hopefully we will never have a 70's class again.

I am hoping for a top 50 class or better.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

It simply amazes me that some here have not heard all the recruiting accolades heaped upon Ash, by coaches and broadcasters/gurus alike, over the past 2 months. Or maybe they just choose to ignore/think everybody is lying, who knows, but I'll move on from that for now.

I think some here are going to be eating their words in a major way over the course of the next 12 months.

- the top local kids wanted nothing to do with this program

- this program was a train wreck, on and off the field, in 2016

- this class wasn't ranked well (52nd/54th in Rivals/247) when Flood was fired

- we only signed 16 kids which hurt our class ranking in a pretty big way

- our average star rating is 2.63 there are 15 classes ahead of us, with more signees, but a LOWER average star rating

- we probably lost a few more kids then expected due to a couple of reasons: the change in the O, telling kids they will not play on D or O until they earn their stripes on ST's, and the fact that Ash has put his foot down. Many here heard the "rumblings" from the last recruiting weekend.

- anybody who read the TOS piece the other day will finally understand what some of us here have been saying for a long time: Flood burned LOTS of bridges due to his recruiting issues/ways and Ash, unfortunately, needs to mend them.

Ash will bring in a very nice class this year. IMHO Top 40 but we'll see. Should be fun!

 

[RU4Real]

By any measure this has been a very disappointing start to the Ash era.

When you lose your argument in the first sentence, you're not having a good day.

 

[mrslate]

We are making real progress here, as some people are now able to say out loud that this class is disappointing. I don't know why that is so hard for others to admit. If back in December I had posted a prediction of a class ranked somewhere 70 and 90, and either last or next to last in the Big 10, these same posters would have gone ballistic: calling me a troll (whatever that is), saying I know nothing about football, saying I have to trust the coach (just like with Coach Flood), etc. I'm optimistic about Coach Ash, but the Ash era has not exactly started with a big bang, for whatever reason. Hopefully, this is what rock bottom looks like.

 

[Queztastic]

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

We got binders, 530 am workouts and nutrition.

I'm not worried.

 

[letitrip2]

When you lose your argument in the first sentence, you're not having a good day.

Not sure what "measure" you would use to argue that this is a good start but I would like to hear it. And please don't use the "he had the best interview that Hobbs ever participated in" or that he comes from a good coaching tree. I am only looking at one thing-results. And the recruiting results (the only measure we have at this point) have been terrible. I am fully on board with HCCA but the point of my post is that no way am I (or most fans) going to be so patient this time around. On field game to game improvement and much improved recruiting are an absolute must this year.

 

[RU4Real]

Not sure what "measure" you would use to argue that this is a good start but I would like to hear it. And please don't use the "he had the best interview that Hobbs ever participated in" or that he comes from a good coaching tree. I am only looking at one thing-results. And the recruiting results (the only measure we have at this point) have been terrible. I am fully on board with HCCA but the point of my post is that no way am I (or most fans) going to be so patient this time around. On field game to game improvement and much improved recruiting are an absolute must this year.

Your first line (in case you forgot) was, "By any measure this has been a disappointing start to the Ash era."

Since your entire post is based on your opinion, the absolute declarative is incorrect.

 

[letitrip2]

Your first line (in case you forgot) was, "By any measure this has been a disappointing start to the Ash era."

Since your entire post is based on your opinion, the absolute declarative is incorrect.

Thank you counselor. So I guess this means you can't come up with anything.

 

[RU4Real]

Thank you counselor. So I guess this means you can't come up with anything.

I don't have to. The position you took is self-defeating. Nobody who disagrees with you need do anything more than look down upon you, in your wrongness.

 

[derleider]

This is so funny to me! While I do agree with your point #1 in improving throughout the season, your point #2 is nearly impossible. How many top 30 classes did we have under schiano, who actually had momentum from the 2006 season?

People are really setting themselves up for failure and Ash is already doomed to fail based on message board posters. This guy took over a program that was being run more like a kindergarten than a top level D1 program. That has lingering effects in recruiting which we all witnessed yet out the blame on Ash. All of our decommits were already in the works before Ash even took place. I blame flood for the past few years and truly put it in his superiors more than anything for not investing properly in the program.

I think some people need to take a step back from the ledge and realistically look at the bigger picture of where this program was when Ash took over. We almost had more people in jail than on our commitment list. Let's give Ash a chance to prove himself with his vision. Give him 2-3yrs and if things are not panning out than we have something to complain about. Otherwise, support your team!! If I were a recruit or parent of a recruit reading these boards I wouldn't want any part of this program necause of those diehards that are closest to the team aren't supportive why would I have interest.

To me there needs to be two things -

1) The defense has to be better than last year. It doesn have to be top 10 or even to p40. But it needs to be observably better. If not, I suspect we are in for a long five years.

2) Similar with the recruiting. His first full class MUST be better than Flood's best class (which I think came in around 45 on this site). If he can't do that, then I dont think he ever will, and I dont think he can win in this division without being at least in the top 2/3rds of P5 teams in recruiting. Top 30 is a huge ask. But top 45, I think is within range - if its not - we have another dud on our hands.

 

[letitrip2]

To me there needs to be two things -

1) The defense has to be better than last year. It doesn have to be top 10 or even to p40. But it needs to be observably better. If not, I suspect we are in for a long five years.

2) Similar with the recruiting. His first full class MUST be better than Flood's best class (which I think came in around 45 on this site). If he can't do that, then I dont think he ever will, and I dont think he can win in this division without being at least in the top 2/3rds of P5 teams in recruiting. Top 30 is a huge ask. But top 45, I think is within range - if its not - we have another dud on our hands.

I would be happy with that also. Top 45 would work as long as the on the field performance shows solid progress. But as I inferred in the OP there is an important program momentum part of this equation which can not be underestimated and the window to get that rolling is short - which is why year 1 is so important.

 

[RU4Real]

I would be happy with that also. Top 45 would work as long as the on the field performance shows solid progress. But as I inferred in the OP there is an important program momentum part of this equation which can not be underestimated and the window to get that rolling is short - which is why year 1 is so important.

Year 1 is important, but there's no constraint on momentum. Schiano certainly didn't get any in his first couple of years. The program had essentially none, post-Flood. As the old saying aptly goes, it's all downhill from here - and I mean that in a good way.

 

[derleider]

Year 1 is important, but there's no constraint on momentum. Schiano certainly didn't get any in his first couple of years. The program had essentially none, post-Flood. As the old saying aptly goes, it's all downhill from here - and I mean that in a good way.

Schiano had momentum from the jump - he improved recruiting right off the bat, and improved on field play in each of the first three years (despite losing more in the 2nd year than the first).