What a way to lose today in baseball

[80RU]

The bats were pretty dead as usual but they managed to tie the score at 2-2 in the top of the ninth with their second unearned run.

In the bottom of the ninth, with one out and a runner on first, a fly ball to centerfield is catchable but the centerfielder loses sight of it and now there are runners on first and third.

A new reliever comes in. Before he throws a pitch, even though the winning run is on third, he goes to first. But the first baseman is playing behind the runner. Game over. Fourth error of the game, but the first one that cost them.

A team with the limits that this team has right now can’t afford to lose a game on a miscommunication.

I wonder if someone who has played the game on a high level could tell us whether that is typically the fault of the first baseman for not communicating or the fault of the pitcher. Zap, anyone?

 

[JimmyJack39]

It’s on the pitcher. That run means nothing there’s absolutely no reason for that pick off attempt. Just a brain fart. The first baseman should’ve told him he’s playing back but it’s honestly common sense that he’s playing back in that situation. However, mental errors always fall back to coaching

 

[80RU]

It’s on the pitcher. That run means nothing there’s absolutely no reason for that pick off attempt. Just a brain fart. The first baseman should’ve told him he’s playing back but it’s honestly common sense that he’s playing back in that situation. However, mental errors always fall back to coaching

The only thing I could think of was that he was trying to keep him fairly close for a potential double play. But the infield would be in anyway. I just don’t know. Thanks for the info.

 

[zappaa]

The only thing I could think of was that he was trying to keep him fairly close for a potential double play. But the infield would be in anyway. I just don’t know. Thanks for the info.

Lots of things at play here, but none of them include the first baseman playing behind the runner if you’re gonna pitch to the batter.

Generally, you’d hold the runner on to keep the double in order.
If you give him second, you immediately walk the bases loaded.
The guy at 3rd with one out is going on contact with a man at first... you have to give yourselves the opportunity to throw him out by playing the infield at minimum half way... there’s just no reason to play behind the runner ever in that situation

 

[zappaa]

It’s on the pitcher. That run means nothing there’s absolutely no reason for that pick off attempt. Just a brain fart. The first baseman should’ve told him he’s playing back but it’s honestly common sense that he’s playing back in that situation. However, mental errors always fall back to coaching

How are you playing back?
The winning run is on 3rd.. if you’re back, I bunt it down first, game over

 

[Mr_Twister]

From the Hampton VA Daily Press newspaper ...

Old Dominion edged Rutgers 3-2 with a bizarre walk-off win in a series opener in Norfolk.

After Rutgers (2-5) tied the game with an unearned run with two outs in the ninth, ODU (6-2) had runners on first and third with two outs in the bottom half. The Scarlet Knights brought in a new pitcher, Tommy Genuario, and before he delivered a pitch, he tried a pickoff attempt at first base, where no one was covering, allowing Matt Schwarz to score from third. ...

 

[zappaa]

From the Hampton VA Daily Press newspaper ...

Old Dominion edged Rutgers 3-2 with a bizarre walk-off win in a series opener in Norfolk.

After Rutgers (2-5) tied the game with an unearned run with two outs in the ninth, ODU (6-2) had runners on first and third with two outs in the bottom half. The Scarlet Knights brought in a new pitcher, Tommy Genuario, and before he delivered a pitch, he tried a pickoff attempt at first base, where no one was covering, allowing Matt Schwarz to score from third. ...

Two outs, play behind the runner is fine.
Horrible communication.
1st basemen litterely has to walk up eye to eye and tell the pitcher, he’s not holding the runner on...imo
That’s how we did it in the big leagues.
I get a kick out of these baseball coaches not telling junior players the situations because they need to learn them for themselves.
We communicated with our bench and fellow infielders between every batter, if it was good enough for us, it’s good enough for junior players

 

[zappaa]

Oh yea, with two outs you COMMUNICATE to your pitcher, he has responsibilitiy for all bunts up the first base line, he has to cheat to allow the first basemen to play behind the runner.

 

[rudad02]

The bats were pretty dead as usual but they managed to tie the score at 2-2 in the top of the ninth with their second unearned run.

In the bottom of the ninth, with one out and a runner on first, a fly ball to centerfield is catchable but the centerfielder loses sight of it and now there are runners on first and third.

A new reliever comes in. Before he throws a pitch, even though the winning run is on third, he goes to first. But the first baseman is playing behind the runner. Game over. Fourth error of the game, but the first one that cost them.

A team with the limits that this team has right now can’t afford to lose a game on a miscommunication.

I wonder if someone who has played the game on a high level could tell us whether that is typically the fault of the first baseman for not communicating or the fault of the pitcher. Zap, anyone?

Ist baseman should be playing behind the runner. His run

 

[rudad02]

With two outs he can play behind, but they've got to talk to each other. With one out he's got to hold the runner on for the potential DP.

 

[zappaa]

With two outs he can play behind, but they've got to talk to each other. With one out he's got to hold the runner on for the potential DP.

With one out,
You have to able to play a slow hit ball and take the bunt away, must hold runner on.
You have to know the runners and determine immediately whether the ball is hit hard enough to turn two or go home with it.

 

[zappaa]

Dad
I love strategy debate, but you need to read all the posts in the thread before you respond to properly debate the situation on here.. ok

 

[80RU]

Thanks for the analysis – – the first baseman is a freshman; I guess that may have had something to do with his not communicating.

 

[zappaa]

Thanks for the analysis – – the first baseman is a freshman; I guess that may have had something to do with his not communicating.

Coach needs to communicate to him, inexcusable if that did’nt happen.

Billy Martin would stand on top of the dugout steps and yell to Mattingly “play behind”
Or “hold him on”
Then Mattingly would yell it and use hand signals to all of us.
There was no guessing.
My point is when you go a junior level game or high school game, and there’s runners on first and third.
If you don’t hear the coach yelling, and the players chatting up the situation... something is wrong.

 

[zappaa]

To further expound, do you really think a 15 year veteran like Craig Nettles needed to be told with men on first and second, two outs...
Hard hit ball to you step on 3rd...or as a SS, I tell him ball in the hole I might come to you.
We did that between every batter.

 

[knights1212]

This is just pathetic to hear. Things are seriously wrong with our baseball team and have been now for several years.

 

[rudad02]

Dad
I love strategy debate, but you need to read all the posts in the thread before you respond to properly debate the situation on here.. ok

Zap, don't quite get your point. I wasn't getting into all of the potential situations, just a couple of basic points. With one out you've got to hold him on, with two out you can play behind him.

 

[zappaa]

Zap, don't quite get your point. I wasn't getting into all of the potential situations, just a couple of basic points. With one out you've got to hold him on, with two out you can play behind him.

I understand that, but I already said that in posts in front of yours.
If you quoted my posts, we could then talk about the real options available in that situation

 

[rudad02]

I understand that, but I already said that in posts in front of yours.
If you quoted my posts, we could then talk about the real options available in that situation

Looked at a couple of your earlier posts. Yeah, if it's not hit hard enough you've got to come home. You also have to be able to defend the squeeze. Once in a while a guy will just bunt for a base hit.

 

[zappaa]

Looked at a couple of your earlier posts. Yeah, if it's not hit hard enough you've got to come home. You also have to be able to defend the squeeze. Once in a while a guy will just bunt for a base hit.

Forget it, the entire thread is about communication, and how it’s done.
It’s not remotely as simple as you hold the guy on.
We didn’t lose because we did or didn’t hold the guy on, we lost because of a manager and infield not communicating, something good little league teams do.

 

[rudad02]

Forget it, the entire thread is about communication, and how it’s done.
It’s not remotely as simple as you hold the guy on.
We didn’t lose because we did or didn’t hold the guy on, we lost because of a manager and infield not communicating, something good little league teams do.

Oh, your telling me that there has to be communication & guys have to talk. Well duh. Guess you're the only guy who has ever played this game or coached & managed it. So yeah forget it.

 

[zappaa]

Oh, your telling me that there has to be communication & guys have to talk. Well duh. Guess you're the only guy who has ever played this game or coached & managed it. So yeah forget it.

Don’t get mad dad, I know you know the game very well.
You’d be shocked at the knowledge we both have and take for granted, that travel team coaches are clueless about.

 

[koleszar]

Anyway you guys want to slice it there's something seriously wrong with this program. The coaches not communicating with their players let alone a freshman in a game losing situation is cause for great concern. Hopefully Hobbs takes a good look at what's going on here and decides to finally take action. Real shame what this program has become under Litterio's guidance.

 

[rudad02]

Don’t get mad dad, I know you know the game very well.
You’d be shocked at the knowledge we both have and take for granted, that travel team coaches are clueless about.

That's for sure. I've seen it with high school & legion coaches for years as well.

 

[rubaseball78]

Don't know where the communication failure occurred but this is primarily on the pitcher who needs to know what the play is before he throws a pitch (or does a pick off). Having been a pitcher, I would always be looking over the way we were positioned.

 

[Caliknight]

Oh yea, with two outs you COMMUNICATE to your pitcher, he has responsibilitiy for all bunts up the first base line, he has to cheat to allow the first basemen to play behind the runner.

I think a basic concept in sport is communication. In lacrosse, communication at the D1 level is exponentially more than you’d see at the high school level. I would imagine every sport is like that the higher you go up in levels.

 

[zappaa]

Don't know where the communication failure occurred but this is primarily on the pitcher who needs to know what the play is before he throws a pitch (or does a pick off). Having been a pitcher, I would always be looking over the way we were positioned.

The manager or pitching coach needs to get your attention as well.
You need to jump on bunts with the winning run on 3rd, and verbally told where you’re first basemen is playing.
Then you look it how everyone is positioned on top of it.

 

[rubaseball78]

The manager or pitching coach needs to get your attention as well.
You need to jump on bunts with the winning run on 3rd, and verbally told where you’re first basemen is playing.
Then you look it how everyone is positioned on top of it.

I'm not disputing that. Just saying the pitcher owns his game and needs to be aware of whats going on around him.