OK, but the fact that a feeling is irrational in one situation is at best weak evidence that it is irrational in another that is quite different.
What did Austin Williams say?
- Thread starter dpwhite
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Agree. You can’t take the emotion out of the game. If you do, it’s time for us all to go home. We have all been watching a lot of basketball over the years, we all know what a real T looks like.
In all sports, it has become increasingly common for players to display emotion. There was a time when baseball players did not cheer themselves on getting a hit and when football coaches stressed to their players not to make a big deal out of scoring a touchdown: "act like you've been there before." In all sports referees/umpires/judges have been trying more and more to curb the trend toward celebration or mocking an opponent. Whether that's good or bad, players need to adjust their behavior to avoid hurting their teams through a penalty or a T.
Blowing layups… seems to be a thing.. but man those dunks during warmups sure are amazing!
It IS a thing. The issue is that people exaggerate it so much that “it’s not a thing at all” is closer to reality than the prevailing opinion is.
Dave, watching it on TV (I live 3,000 miles away) it WAS a BS call. Austin was just celebrating the block, and NOT taunting Reese or anyone else. The official misread it and reacted poorly. Austin did nothing a player who makes a good play wouldn't do in that situation. He showed emotion and shouted out, because he was happy, not because he was showing anyone up.
Steve Bardo, on TV, ripped the official. He absolutely ripped the official over and over again for that BS call at the worst time possible. And yes, who knows if we would have won, but at that point in the game, with plenty of time left and now only down 10, 47-37, everything had turned around for us, and Maryland was discombobulated, and that horrible call changed everything! For me, that was the turning point that sunk us.
After that call, it knocked the air out of our players and the crowd. Maryland would go on a 7-0 run, and the game was over.
Why did it deflate everybody? We were in the midst of a great run. Give up one point and it’s all gone? Soft.
Sorry, disagree with you. Yes, he yelled out, because it was an exciting and emotional play, but in no way did he say ANYTHING directly to ANY of the Maryland players, especially Reese, who was an asshole throughout the game and based on the official, should have been T'd up 10 times.
that is what i am asking..the crowd was louder than ever for that defensive stop where we got 2 blocks and a breakaway..the blown layup was the letting the air out the tire moment
It’s the call. They felt like they were getting jobbed a lot and the. There’s a ticky tack right when the run is happening AT HOME. Players at this age are very emotional and don’t just shrug their shoulders and move on to the next play.
The Williams T was definitely a momentum changer. It gave Maryland a chance to catch their breath and it shook our team. You could see it after the Reese dunk when he was screaming away, and Jeremiah and whoever the other RU guy was (I forget) turned to the ref asking why that wasn't a T on Reese compared to the Williams T. It did seem ridiculous to call it on us but not on them.
I don’t get the point of this exercise or how it relates to the OP.
Anyone who thinks there’s momentum in a game of poker or blackjack (unless you’re counting cards) is either a moron or a degenerate gambler.
Your response says you’re not highly educated on momentum.
You’d be surprised by how many people actually do believe that to be honest. But the point is that you will perceive momentum in these things too even though you (should) know it’s not there. Feeling momentum is not good evidence for its existence.
Never understand this logic. It’s fine to complain about the refs. At the same time the reality is we played our worst game of the year
No fluo.
It is the momentum thing. It feels like flow (evidence supports it) for the team on the run. And it feels like chaos for the team getting run on.
Those feelings matter.
And the call ended both
I agree but there are a lot of morons and degenerate gamblers out there.
Your example doesn’t really apply here because a game of college basketball certainly does include levels of emotion and human behavior/decision making that can impact the game and outcome.
We went 11 minutes without scoring a field goal yesterday. We then proceeded to score 8 field goals over the next 5 + minutes.
There is definitely a level of momentum that can be associated (but not measured) in runs like this.
Another example is the horrid finish we had in the Minnesota game last year. The human element and pressure took over and we completely clamped up and choked which contributed to the loss (along with the idiotic dancing on the bench lol).
I think what you’re saying is that fans over emphasize momentum but it definitely exists and comes into play.
If that technical doesn’t get called yesterday the chances of us winning the game are still very small but that call definitely took the air out of the sails and impacted the run we were making.
The last sentence is what I'm trying to say. We still probably don't win the game, but that call ensured it was a blow out instead of giving us a chance of making it interesting.
Based on my experience, momentum is more about the past than the future. Everybody on this board has played and watched a lot sports extensively. When we're sitting on our couches with a beer and a hotdog, and our teams makes three in a row as the other team misses three in a row, we think we've captured this mythical beast called "momentum."
Sometimes I try to visualize this creature (although he is invisible, ha ha).
I certainly think there is something real about it -- maybe a player on the other team gets rattled and makes a poor decision or he forgets about proper mechanics when his opponent has a sudden burst of success. But "momentum" isn't some tangible thing that will keep the other team's shots from going in the basket...
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While momentum might play into it in a small way, it's not nearly as much as fans believe or remember (and I'm sure that @fluoxetine is coming at it from a gambling angle like I am, where you track these things to be able to make in-game plays, and realize how much it's overblown to most when you look at the real numbers). It's like the arguments that people have when they mock the analytics of NFL coaches going for 2 when down 9 or down 8...even though the math backs it up, I always hear "but you lose the momentum". In those spots, the math is so strong that momentum shouldn't be a factor in your decision.
It's like Home field/court advantage...manual casual fans greatly over-exaggerate it's impact. A fan on the PSU site claimed that if we played all of our home games at Rec Hall instead of the BJC this year, we'd be undefeated. When I pointed out that we've lost games by 9, 9, 8, and 4 at home, he countered that Rec Hall is worth 10 more points than the BJC. In actuality, that number is probably closer to something between 0 and 1 point. (and those that don't handicap/model seriously do the same thing with injuries, overestimating their impact)
As is often said, basketball is a game of runs. There's definitely a psychological element to runs, whether or not you want to call it "momentum".
It's why coaches will call time outs to resettle their team and make adjustments to try to stop a run, or why a certain lineup might be left on longer than planned if they were on a run.
It's a double-edged sword, though. While on the receiving end of a run, you may get sped up, make poorer decisions, try to force things, lose focus, etc... which can lead to missed shots, turnovers, etc. When on a run, though, riding the high of concurrent successes, sometimes players take "heat check" shots or overcommit to a steal or otherwise step outside of the type of play that had led to success.
A time out creates a psychological break/restart and helps to refocus a team that had been on its heels - and a technical foul is just a free time out.
In this case, instead of it being an immediate MD inbound under the basket with a very short play clock after just being stuffed - they got a break in the action for Willard to settle them down, then got the ball back up 1 more point, with a reset clock.
As has been said - would it have changed the outcome? Likely not the way we'd been playing, because runs don't last forever, and your opponent will also have their opportunity for their own runs. And a stop and a score to bring Rutgers within 8 would have likely forced a Willard timeout, anyway.
It's why coaches will call time outs to resettle their team and make adjustments to try to stop a run, or why a certain lineup might be left on longer than planned if they were on a run.
It's a double-edged sword, though. While on the receiving end of a run, you may get sped up, make poorer decisions, try to force things, lose focus, etc... which can lead to missed shots, turnovers, etc. When on a run, though, riding the high of concurrent successes, sometimes players take "heat check" shots or overcommit to a steal or otherwise step outside of the type of play that had led to success.
A time out creates a psychological break/restart and helps to refocus a team that had been on its heels - and a technical foul is just a free time out.
In this case, instead of it being an immediate MD inbound under the basket with a very short play clock after just being stuffed - they got a break in the action for Willard to settle them down, then got the ball back up 1 more point, with a reset clock.
As has been said - would it have changed the outcome? Likely not the way we'd been playing, because runs don't last forever, and your opponent will also have their opportunity for their own runs. And a stop and a score to bring Rutgers within 8 would have likely forced a Willard timeout, anyway.
You have to add in the T on Mawot because that was a dead play with a foul called at midcourt and the ref not blowing his whistle loud enough so that was a 3-5 point swing that play was at the 16:37 mark
Momentum is not real in truly random events like dealing cards or a roulette wheel.
Momentum can absolutely be a real thing in competition where the mental aspect matters. Nerves, confidence, and emotion can all play a part when things seem to be going your way or against you. These are not robots playing the game.
Momentum can absolutely be a real thing in competition where the mental aspect matters. Nerves, confidence, and emotion can all play a part when things seem to be going your way or against you. These are not robots playing the game.
Before the T: 10-0 run RU
After the T: 7-0 run Maryland
But yea no such thing as momentum. Have any of you ever played a team sport beyond backyard football??
After the T: 7-0 run Maryland
But yea no such thing as momentum. Have any of you ever played a team sport beyond backyard football??
With the RAC behind them no less. That T totally deflated the place.
The problem for the analytics guys is that you can’t measure momentum, human behavior, nerves etc. so they tend to dismiss these as factors.
It’s not nearly as much as fans believe - but it IS a factor.
The technical last night definitely impacted the momentum and flow of the game.
How much? It’s debatable and not measurable.
Can I give a really old example? The Cubs led the National League East most of the 1969 season. The Mets rallied in September and tied the Cubs for 1st. As Jim Bouton , then pitching for Houston, commented at the time, there was no doubt which team felt better about that -- and the rest is history. Momentum may be intangible, but intangibles can be quite real.
Yet a sport like tennis has noted gamblers that say momentum matters….
Nerds like you have ruined sports.
You can in fact use data to see whether momentum exists in a significant way and it wouldn't be particularly hard to model if it did.
Yes, knowing things does tend to ruin things for children. Kind of like learning that Santa Clause isn't real. But don't worry, it seems likely you are maintaining the mystery of ignorance in many places in your life.
lol how about rutgers missed shots and maryland made them...nothing to do with a technical
this thread is just another way for fans to try and brightside a loss as if only the big bad refs didnt **** us we would have completed the 21 point rally and won the game. I am not giving hope up yet.
Im more concerned about the momentum that led to 11 minutes without a fg and going down 21
This talk of momentum is just a device to take an irrelevant play from the game and imbue it with make-believe importance.
When the RAC sustains 110 decibels, and gets to 120 when you sink a shot, its factor.
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