What's criminal about players taking money?

[czxqa]

In all honesty, the Feds can also choose to prosecute this case under RICO. It certainly does fit the bill as a widespread corrupt enterprise. That's probably the best chance they have to get the head coaches who make sure they are never in the room or on the phone when these deals are done. The Feds will have to decide just how far they want to take this thing. The potential to take down a lot of people is there.

 

[koleszar]

There is no federal statute against commercial "bribery.' Bribery is a crime when it is used to influence government or legal authority. Slipping the hostess a fin for a good table or paying a kid $100,000 to look favorable on some potential future agent representation is not a federal crime. State law is another matter with a wide slew of possibilities. Federal mail and wire fraud laws can come into play if the actors are bribing to engage in fraud. Seems like a stretch, although they are, strictly speaking, defrauding the NCAA into thinking the kids are compliant with rules.

Any person who willfully attempts to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof. However, for a teenage kid, who was paid an amount in $100,000 fewer than a couple of years from the point the tax was due, it would probably be considered Tax Negligence. Wouldn't need much of a lawyer to get off with the tax plus a minor fine.

I think the FBI would only go after the players for tax negligence and seek like you said a small fine and tax reimbursement. But the persons who perpetrated this scheme would be charged with interstate wire fraud. They were defrauding the school and NCAA that these were amateur athletes. However by paying them to come to certain schools they were no longer amateur but had then become professional athletes upon payment. That's where the recorded phone calls will show the payments were knowingly and willfully devised to defraud. I'm sure a lot was divulged in those phone calls. As they all know the NCAA can't wire tap. However, I'm 100% sure they didn't know the FBI was involved

 

[LC-88]

In all honesty, the Feds can also choose to prosecute this case under RICO. It certainly does fit the bill as a widespread corrupt enterprise. That's probably the best chance they have to get the head coaches who make sure they are never in the room or on the phone when these deals are done. The Feds will have to decide just how far they want to take this thing. The potential to take down a lot of people is there.

RICO would bring things to a whole new level. Potential property forfeiture.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Racketeer-Influenced-and-Corrupt-Organizations-Act

"In addition, RICO lists numerous federal offenses that the statute defines as racketeering: bribery, sports bribery, counterfeiting, embezzlement from union funds, loan sharking, mail fraud, wire fraud, obstruction of justice, trafficking in contraband cigarettes, prostitution and trafficking in people, bankruptcy fraud, drug violations, and obscenity. As long as the “racketeering activity” is “chargeable” or “indictable” under an applicable criminal statute, the substantive RICO charge is available.

RICO creates offenses and penalties above and beyond those prescribed for specific criminal offenses for those involved in an ongoing illegal enterprise that engages in racketeering. The maximum criminal penalties for violating RICO include a $25,000 fine and imprisonment for 20 years. These penalties are imposed on top of the criminal penalties resulting from two or more substantive offenses that the individual or organization has committed in the 10-year period. In addition to the criminal penalties, there are forfeiture provisions requiring the violators to forfeit any business or property derived from their illegal offenses.

Alongside criminal actions, RICO permits private plaintiffs and the government to seek redress in a civil action. Indeed, perhaps the most controversial aspect of RICO is that the government can seize and confiscate what it deems to be the proceeds of crime through the civil courts.

With respect to asset forfeiture, the state can seize property without notice upon an ex parte application of probable cause that the property is associated with criminal activity. In this case, criminal charges need not be provided against a defendant. In contrast to criminal prosecutions, where the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt, only the lesser standard of proof—a balance of probabilities—is required under the civil provisions of RICO. The attraction of this approach is that the onus of proof is shifted to the defendant, who must prove that the assets were acquired through legitimate means.

 

[c_husk]

If I understand your question, and if I can take a crack at some of the issues:

1) Taking ANY benefits other, non-student athletes would not have access to - even if not for yourself, but family members - by NCAA rules should mean instant - and retroactive - loss of amateur status, and the school for which you had played have all wins vacated in games in which that player played. Apparently, Cam Newton is the exception to these rules. So that is not criminal.

2) However, taking money, and not declaring it as income, might be construed as TAX FRAUD ... which is criminal - and a felony.

3) I had not heard a heavy focus in yesterday's news about ficus on the PLAYERS. Rather the focus has been on the FBI investigating agents, apparel companies and coaches.

4) What I do not know is whether student athletes could be accused of fraud, or defrauding, their colleges, if they take money from outside parties in order to choose a college ... I think there might have been some cases surrounding that in the past. But I cannot remember the exact arguments.

5) Apparently, one pressure point on the COLLEGES is that if any receive ANY Federal funding, those colleges could be subjected to charges of wire fraud of some sort, and risk losing Federal funding ... if a legitimate charge, that is a big financial hammer to force colleges to take action, and/or to cooperate with the investigation.

Player could always declare income on tax return;) on tax return.

FBI would not be involved in Tax Fraud, IRS Criminal Investigation Special Agents would be involved Tax Fraud. Which you will most likely see dovetailed on top of FBI Investigation.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Starting paying college athletes......RU would be forced to cut all men's sports and just keep enough women's sports to equal the number of players on the men's football and basketball teams.

These kids are getting 200Kish worth benefit in form of a college education. If that isn't enough OR a college education doesn't have value they shouldn't be in college basketball.

I blame the NBA. 1 fix. If a college player leaves for the NBA his scholarship is free after 4 years have elapsed. The John Calapari model is an absolute joke and a mockery of college.

 

[c_husk]

Starting paying college athletes......RU would be forced to cut all men's sports and just keep enough women's sports to equal the number of players on the men's football and basketball teams.

These kids are getting 200Kish worth benefit in form of a college education. If that isn't enough OR a college education doesn't have value they shouldn't be in college basketball.

I blame the NBA. 1 fix. If a college player leaves for the NBA his scholarship is free after 4 years have elapsed. The John Calapari model is an absolute joke and a mockery of college.

The NBA made the minimum age of 19 (one and done rule). The kids are going to NBA afer 1 year. You can't put that on Calapari. He took advantage of it, but if it wasn't him the kids would have gone somewhere else and split after 1 year.

 

[TDIrish27]

Greenie if a kid doesn't want to be in college why should he be forced to go there ?

College holds less than zero interest for many of these kids.

I don't understand why they aren't allowed to go to the NBA beyond the Players Association looking after their own.

I do not want to hear about going to Europe----these kids aren't interested.

Let them go to the NBA and if it doesn't work out they have to live with their decision.

 

[rutgersguy1]

I blame the NBA. 1 fix. If a college player leaves for the NBA his scholarship is free after 4 years have elapsed. The John Calapari model is an absolute joke and a mockery of college.

I kind of like that idea. Let kids go to the NBA out of high school if they want and those who decide to got college let them come and they can leave early as well if they like BUT if they leave that scholarship is still on the books for 3 years (taking it to a hypothetical junior season rather than the 4 you suggest).

That way kids can still leave whenever they like from high school on but coaches now might think twice about offering a kid who won't take college the least bit seriously because they would be hamstringing themselves down the line. It might limit this rent-a-player mentality and MAYBE bring things back to a "student-athlete" mentality.

The one drawback I see is that a coach can theoretically still execute the rent-a-player model and jump to another school and leave the current institution hamstrung while he didn't face the consequences of said strategy.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

There is no federal statute against commercial "bribery.' Bribery is a crime when it is used to influence government or legal authority. Slipping the hostess a fin for a good table or paying a kid $100,000 to look favorable on some potential future agent representation is not a federal crime. State law is another matter with a wide slew of possibilities. Federal mail and wire fraud laws can come into play if the actors are bribing to engage in fraud. Seems like a stretch, although they are, strictly speaking, defrauding the NCAA into thinking the kids are compliant with rules.

Any person who willfully attempts to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof. However, for a teenage kid, who was paid an amount in $100,000 fewer than a couple of years from the point the tax was due, it would probably be considered Tax Negligence. Wouldn't need much of a lawyer to get off with the tax plus a minor fine.

This is not about tax. This is about bribery and corruption. These are public universities, and those statutes are much broader than they appear to be by the letter of just reading the statute. This is not a tax prosecution. A tax prosecution would be focused on the players.

This will be focused on the coaches and the sneaker reps, as you have seen from the first round of arrests. Bribery is prosecutable if it is adverse to the public good. There are countless bribery cases that involve the private sector. That is also why you see the wire and mail fraud statutes being used n these types of cases. Those statutes have the breadth necessary to let them prosecute commercial bribes. They will also use state laws. I am not familiar with Arizona or Kentucky law but it may very well be the schools they went after were in states with favorable laws.

They are trying to shut down the exact practices the NCAA was unable or unwilling to.

 

[letterman]

I didn't know that it was ok for a sneaker company to pay part of a coach's salary. 2.5m is a lot of money to help fund pitino's salary.

 

[miketd1]

If any American professional league screamed for a promotion/relegation structure like Euro soccer, it's the NBA.

Then you'd have the small market teams developing and trading players for profit and the bigger market/marquee teams slugging it out for a championship.

I mean, that's pretty much what the super-team era NBA is anyway.

 

[TDIrish27]

Cleveland is a big market ?

Without knowing exact numbers NY , Chicago and LA are the biggest markets and in the last 3-4 years they aren't very good.

Miami , Bay Area , OKC and Houston have the best teams and with the exception of the Bay Area I wouldn't call them marquee or big market franchises.

 

[miketd1]

Irish: I meant the league has moved towards a super-team concept. Not that big market teams are doing well. The reason why I would push for larger market success = more $$$. For everyone.

Sort of like how baseball is. The large market teams are buoying up player salaries as a whole since they can pretty much pay whatever they want for players.

 

[TDIrish27]

Maybe Mike----but Cleveland , Minnesota and Houston are all Playoff Bound

 

[miketd1]

Maybe Mike----but Cleveland , Minnesota and Houston are all Playoff Bound

I don't disagree. But the idea of (promotion/relegation) was meant as a way to avoid all these bag men in MBB while simultaneously addressing the tanking issue. Big market winners & additional money was more of natural outcome of such a system.

 

[scarlet_fort]

Maybe Mike----but Cleveland , Minnesota and Houston are all Playoff Bound

Cleveland also had their big fish bail on them to join a super team in Miami. Before he rejoined them they received 3 1st overall picks and two 4th picks. His first season gone they had no draft picks(basically over 3 seasons). Lebron came back once their team was stacked with top draft picks and he was taking them to the playoffs when they had nobody

 

[TDIrish27]

My post you're responding to was about baseball.