Who is to blame for the decline in Our MBB?

[rucook08]

As we are close to hitting rock bottom

Was trying to gauge everyone's opinion on how we got into this mess

What was the tipping point?

I honestly think it was firing Gary Waters

We were a middle of the road team in an elite conference and just wanted more. What he did with our resources at the time was pretty amazing

 

[Seton75]

A lot of RU fans have disagreed with me when I said it previously, but I agree with you on GW. I think he was close to turning you around. I have been told he had gained some traction with NJ HS kids, and he was a good coach. Mulcahy was enamored of Fred and f'ed up.

I never thought Fred would be as bad a coach and program mgr as he was at RU.

 

[soundcrib]

Uncle Bob

Correction: Fred the Golfer

 

[MadRU]

Missing out on the initial Big East. Or should I say opting out

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Lack of investment in facilities over 25 years. Recruits don't see Rutgers as being serious about Basketball.

 

[bac2therac]

Fred Grunninger for decling the Big East invitation two times

Bob Mulcahy for being criminally negligent with the basketball program..all but burying it with his lack of support, funnel of profits away from it, extending head coaches, lockerroom tirades, and his biggest folly of all which put the final nail in the coffin..hiring Fred Hill...that was the point of no return for me. Hill decimated the fanbase and student interest and it led to all the other crap down the road

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Greg Schiano

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

....however he is the reason we are in B1G and not AAC

 

[Kbee3]

Lack of investment in facilities over 25 years. Recruits don't see Rutgers as being serious about Basketball.

Rutgers ISN'T serious about mens' basketball.

 

[MadRU]

Greg Schiano

Happened way before Schiano

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

Lack of investment in facilities over 25 years. Recruits don't see Rutgers as being serious about Basketball.

That's the reason. Years of neglect.

 

[Upstream]

Fred Grunninger for decling the Big East invitation two times

Bob Mulcahy for being criminally negligent with the basketball program..all but burying it with his lack of support, funnel of profits away from it, extending head coaches, lockerroom tirades, and his biggest folly of all which put the final nail in the coffin..hiring Fred Hill...that was the point of no return for me. Hill decimated the fanbase and student interest and it led to all the other crap down the road

This is pretty much it.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

The golf coach
The golf coach
The golf coach

If you were around Rutgers basketball in the 70a we were the best program in the east

 

[megadrone]

Joe Paterno.

Reason 1:
If he didn't have the insane, State Penn friendly revenue sharing in the conference he was trying to put together, that conference would have formed, Syracuse and BC leave the Big East, Pitt doesn't join, and the Big East is a collection of basketball schools only.

Reason 2:
If he didn't put a hex on Gruninger, and our AD didn't follow Paterno around like Satan's lapdog, he would have joined the Big East in 1979 and Seton Hall doesn't get our spot. Perhaps State Penn is invited in (perhaps not) and the Big East becomes the all sports conference it needed to be and doesn't break up.

Well, that was fun!

Seriously, split it between Gruninger and Mulcahy, though I think Gruninger was probably right in trying to find a home for football and everything else. Littlepage was a terrible hire, and the lack of a TV contract in the Eastern 8/A10 hurt us while the Big East's visibility helped Seton Hall and St. John's, probably at our expense. But that is hindsight being 20/20.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Fore!

 

[DHajekRC84]

Kevin Bannon. He had us up and coming and he blew the frack up and started the bizarre series of unfortunate events that continues today.

That or the guy that decided to relocate the ancient burial ground remains discovered under the RAC in the mid-80's.

 

[Caliknight]

Gruninger just wasn't cut out to run a big time department that needed to make moves. He kept the status quo instead of making it better.

BM made a calculated risk. He leveraged every sport besides W. basketball to build football in hopes of getting into a secure conference. It sucked for the other sports, but you have to say that it, along with our location, got the job done.

Now is the time to fix all of the other sports that were bled dry during that period. And make no mistake, they were bled dry. I know of some horror stories some of the programs had to put up with due to money being funneled to football. Needless to say, they had very little chance for success.

 

[RU82]

No one person is responsible. It's been an unbroken chain of missteps coupled with a general lack of institutional commitment.

Grunniger declining the BE invite was obviously a fateful decision for basketball. But it's more or less been downhill since Bannon got canned. Mulcahy's emphasis was on Football, which in the end turned out to be a grand slam for RU so...

We all talk about this as if it's the end of the world sports wise. But in reality, if someone had offered us the proposition of our basketball program taking a nose dive while our football program reached a level of respectability that would land us a Big 10 invite, every one of us would have signed up for that.

Our basketball program won't be this bad forever. We just haven't found the right guy yet who can rescue us from the abyss.

 

[SAE96]

Every AD over the last 25 years.

 

[DocRU]

Bac is correct. Gruninger for the Big East decline, and Mulcahy for selling our soul for football. But in fairness it may be my fault:
1976 Pete Malloy at the line to win it for Princeton and spoil RU's perfect season. "Please miss and I don't care if RU stinks for the next 40 years" I prayed.

 

[LC-88]

Lack of investment in facilities over 25 years. Recruits don't see Rutgers as being serious about Basketball.

RU joins Big East in 1979, then most likely funding not an issue. The timing would have been perfect. We were near the top of the pile in the north-east in 1979. What could have been.

 

[RICOelectric]

Bac is correct. Gruninger for the Big East decline, and Mulcahy for selling our soul for football. But in fairness it may be my fault:
1976 Pete Malloy at the line to win it for Princeton and spoil RU's perfect season. "Please miss and I don't care if RU stinks for the next 40 years" I prayed.

I was at that game in Providence, RU totally outplayed and out coached by Princeton but somehow with their sheer athleticism were able to pull out a victory.

 

[TDIrish27]

Plenty of blame to go around IMO.

All mentioned had a hand in it------with the exception of the Malloy kid. :)

 

[wheezer]

Bac is correct. Gruninger for the Big East decline, and Mulcahy for selling our soul for football. But in fairness it may be my fault:
1976 Pete Malloy at the line to win it for Princeton and spoil RU's perfect season. "Please miss and I don't care if RU stinks for the next 40 years" I prayed.

-----
Most specifically, the first rejection of the big east, when it was formed.... Seton hall would not have been invited that go round had we said yes..... From that point on you could be certain we would have done our best to block them from ever joining...... History would be way different now.

 

[Unionst]

As we are close to hitting rock bottom

Was trying to gauge everyone's opinion on how we got into this mess

What was the tipping point?

I honestly think it was firing Gary Waters

We were a middle of the road team in an elite conference and just wanted more. What he did with our resources at the time was pretty amazing

1. Gruninger. However, know that when we declined the Big East our league at that time included Villanova, Pitt and WVU. With RU strong then, it certainly was not clear that the new Big East was going to be superior to the Eastern 8.
2. Bannon. Best recruiter we have had since the 70's. screwed it up.
3. Mike Rice. The depths to which we have fallen are to a large extent his doing.

Gary Waters' success, if any, can be summed up in 2 words: Quincy Douby. He was not a good coach. OMG I hated Waters' offense.

Last, I had a lengthy discussion over the holidays with my nephew who was recruited, but not offered, about 9 years ago by RU. He saw lots of schools during his recruitment (ended up playing mid-major) and told me he loved the RAC, the volume etc, and would have loved playing there. He spent quite a lot of time behind the scenes at
Louisville and Syracuse as well as others so he has some perspective. He was shocked when I mentioned some of the conversations about the RAC on this Board.

 

[RUJMM78]

It started after the Final Four where Young was unable to attract top recruits .Since that time Bannon,Rice,Waters,Hill problems off the court , poor decisions by athletic directors,transfers of top recruits/players,no connection with top NJ high schools,lack of financial support for basketball including RAC/practice facility and total indifference by sports fans in NJ are all contributing factors.You put all these interconnecting pieces together over time and the result is chaos ,indifference and lack of relevance in college basketball.

 

[Kbee3]

It started after the Final Four where Young was unable to attract top recruits .Since that time Bannon,Rice,Waters,Hill problems off the court , poor decisions by athletic directors,transfers of top recruits/players,no connection with top NJ high schools,lack of financial support for basketball including RAC/practice facility and total indifference by sports fans in NJ are all contributing factors.You put all these interconnecting pieces together over time and the result is chaos ,indifference and lack of relevance in college basketball.

That's a pretty good summary.
One thing I would add is Bird Vitale. I was once told that his personality was so off-putting that the milquetoast leadership at RU decided that if THIS was big-time college basketball....nah...we'll pass.

 

[wheezer]

Q

That's a pretty good summary.
One thing I would add is Bird Vitale. I was once told that his personality was so off-putting that the milquetoast leadership at RU decided that if THIS was big-time college basketball....nah...we'll pass.

-----
It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Dick Vitale had become our head coach, but I fully agree it went against the
personality of our athletic director at the time.

Knowing Vitale a bit personally, I would suggest that he probably could not have lasted a long time as a head coach with the stress and strain.....
certain health issues always seemed to crop up and his tenure as a head coach seemed to be hampered ...he did muddle through as best he
could......

 

[wheezer]

It started after the Final Four where Young was unable to attract top recruits .Since that time Bannon,Rice,Waters,Hill problems off the court , poor decisions by athletic directors,transfers of top recruits/players,no connection with top NJ high schools,lack of financial support for basketball including RAC/practice facility and total indifference by sports fans in NJ are all contributing factors.You put all these interconnecting pieces together over time and the result is chaos ,indifference and lack of relevance in college basketball.

--------------
yeah, the JoJo Hunter affair..... we blamed the after season trip to Europe for Young losing Hunter and that other recruit...... I don't even know if Hunter turned out to be any good.....anyway, we wound up with very little, two players I believe, one being little Rodney Duncan?

 

[SkilletHead2]

If I had to point at one thing, it would be Tom Young. I know he is beloved by many, but he took us from the heights right into mediocrity in the A-10.

After that, it was a lot of bad decisions, both by various ADs, but also by coaches.

 

[RobertG]

As we are close to hitting rock bottom

Was trying to gauge everyone's opinion on how we got into this mess

What was the tipping point?

I honestly think it was firing Gary Waters

We were a middle of the road team in an elite conference and just wanted more. What he did with our resources at the time was pretty amazing

Everybody. You cannot have this level of ineptitude without everybody's help.

 

[wheezer]

If I had to point at one thing, it would be Tom Young. I know he is beloved by many, but he took us from the heights right into mediocrity in the A-10.

After that, it was a lot of bad decisions, both by various ADs, but also by coaches.

----
I blame the rise of the big east more than the results in the a 10.... I feel Young would have recruited on a high level had we gone...

 

[JQRU91]

Bac is correct. Gruninger for the Big East decline, and Mulcahy for selling our soul for football. But in fairness it may be my fault:
1976 Pete Malloy at the line to win it for Princeton and spoil RU's perfect season. "Please miss and I don't care if RU stinks for the next 40 years" I prayed.

Well at least the forty years is up. Time to come out of the wilderness.

 

[mikefla]

As we are close to hitting rock bottom

Was trying to gauge everyone's opinion on how we got into this mess

What was the tipping point?

I honestly think it was firing Gary Waters

We were a middle of the road team in an elite conference and just wanted more. What he did with our resources at the time was pretty amazing

I agree. When you fire/railroad a guy like Waters who brought full houses, wins and enthusiasm to the program
We beat Cuse the year thy won the national championship!
not a decent coach on the planet would take a chance on RU possibly tanking their career

 

[ruman]

Eddie Jordan has stolen his paycheck for the past 2 and one half years

 

[LotusAggressor]

This state of affairs was decades in the making. Declining the BE invite was the first domino. Hiring Littlepage instead of a real coach after Young left was the second. They just kept falling after that.

 

[srru86]

But in fairness it may be my fault:1976 Pete Malloy at the line to win it for Princeton and spoil RU's perfect season. "Please miss and I don't care if RU stinks for the next 40 years" I prayed.

You monster!

 

[80RU]

--------------
yeah, the JoJo Hunter affair..... we blamed the after season trip to Europe for Young losing Hunter and that other recruit...... I don't even know if Hunter turned out to be any good.....anyway, we wound up with very little, two players I believe, one being little Rodney Duncan?

Hunter and Bryant were committed when RU left for the city of Rome tournament. If I remember correctly the Maryland coach hired one of their their coaches while Young was away and that was that. Perhaps someone could shed some light on this, but I have a vague recollection of this being the case. Hawkeye Whitney had been on the verge of committing and was probably following those two before they flipped. One of the replacements that was hastily recruited thereafter ultimately worked very hard to undermine Tom Young so the program suffered a secondary injury because of these flips.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sheridan

 

[80RU]

Sheridan

He was the coaching hire at Maryland?