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Why I'm befuddled by Laurent

J

jerzeyguy

All Conference
May 18, 2008
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Late Jan thru Feb -Freshmen year

12pts, 6Rebs vs FDU
13pts, 15Rebs vs ULM
23pts, 8Rebs vs ILL
19pts, 15Rebs vs PSU
18pts, 11Rebs vs ILL
17pts, 6Rebs vs NW

Had sum other nice games too. Just seems odd that he showed so much promise as a Freshman and now he's only useful for 5 mins a game. Not even good enough to play over Omoruyi
 
rubaseball78 said:
Not really. Football team was 2-10. Bball team is 9-1.
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So we shouldn't discipline/grant minutes the same way if we have a losing record as opposed to winning? If anything, maintaining discipline and rewarding hard work is more important on a losing team.
 
AshCatchEm said:
So we shouldn't discipline/grant minutes the same way if we have a losing record as opposed to winning? If anything, maintaining discipline and rewarding hard work is more important on a losing team.
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Not what I'm saying at all A poster was saying Laurents not playing was akin to why Hicks, Martin, etc. My point is bball and football are not the same situations. I don't see anyone right now to sub Laurent in for where you would say we are better.
 
Not sure if he has been trying to do to much but he seems like a turnover machine on offense. Has played lackluster defense. I hope for the sake of this team he snaps out of the funk.
 
rubaseball78 said:
Not what I'm saying at all A poster was saying Laurents not playing was akin to why Hicks, Martin, etc. My point is bball and football are not the same situations. I don't see anyone right now to sub Laurent in for where you would say we are better.
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im just saying we dont know...maybe its because pikiell wants different personnel..maybe its connected to some way hes been approaching practice..theres just little reason to worry ourselves when we dont have the full scoop because if it is an issue that goes beyond talent, we'll never formally know because pikiell can basically never state it out loud
 
I would NOT say Laurent is not buying in - there is no evidence of that. After all, he IS starting, eh?

I think he is just not playing well enough to gain more minutes - not at this time. His defense has been so-so at best and he has forced too much on offense. When in, he does seem okay in the rebounding department.

RU has chosen to go with 3 guards at times: Sanders, Johnson and Williams. That cuts into the SF slot playing time (Laurent). And while Omoruyi has also been inconsistent on defense, and does not add a lot to offense, he appears to be making fewer MISTAKES on offense ... thus getting some chances over Laurent in some situations.
 
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Laurent was very into the game and animated from the bench, not to worry.
 
jerzeyguy said:
Late Jan thru Feb -Freshmen year

12pts, 6Rebs vs FDU
13pts, 15Rebs vs ULM
23pts, 8Rebs vs ILL
19pts, 15Rebs vs PSU
18pts, 11Rebs vs ILL
17pts, 6Rebs vs NW

Had sum other nice games too. Just seems odd that he showed so much promise as a Freshman and now he's only useful for 5 mins a game. Not even good enough to play over Omoruyi
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He was a favorite of mine last year because you could see tremendous potential...perhaps a future star. I am puzzled that he hasn't stepped up this year, perhaps a good question for coach at CC meeting. He starts but doesn't seem to get into the flow of the game when he's pulled 4 minutes into the game.
 
Freelaurent#

This is actual comical. When we make it to the 2017-18 NCAA tournament (according to Shack) are we going to lament who isn't playing

Trust in Pikiell
 
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Greene Rice FIG said:
Freelaurent#

This is actual comical. When we make it to the 2017-18 NCAA tournament (according to Shack) are we going to lament who isn't playing

Trust in Pikiell
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At this pace you might be a dollar short and a day late with the tournament predictions.[winking]
 
Even with as bad as we've been I don't believe the NCAA is going to allow us to play with 6 guys on the floor. For Laurent to get more minutes either Sanders, Nigel, Thiam or Williams is going to have to get less minutes. Until and unless he (or Eugene) makes us better than we are with those guys on the floor then he will be battling with Eugene for the few remaining minutes at the 3. No more no less.

Competition for minutes is good for a basketball team.
 
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jellyman said:
I would NOT say Laurent is not buying in - there is no evidence of that. After all, he IS starting, eh?

I think he is just not playing well enough to gain more minutes - not at this time. His defense has been so-so at best and he has forced too much on offense. When in, he does seem okay in the rebounding department.

RU has chosen to go with 3 guards at times: Sanders, Johnson and Williams. That cuts into the SF slot playing time (Laurent). And while Omoruyi has also been inconsistent on defense, and does not add a lot to offense, he appears to be making fewer MISTAKES on offense ... thus getting some chances over Laurent in some situations.
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Agree. That is all I have said. Other guys are playing better to deserve the minutes and have disagreed with those that have said he should be given more minutes. If we were 1-9, maybe you give more minutes to just try something different, but we are 9-1. Right now there is no indication giving him more minutes makes us a better team.
 
It important to note that those points his freshman year were done as a power forward.....in many cases he was a matchup problem (on the offensive end) for the bigger and slower opposing PF. This year the person that covers him usually is just like him. So you almost have to think if this is his freshman year at his new position-he has to get used to the speed of the opposition.
 
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You can throw out last year because most of those stats are irrelevant. You have players playing more minutes than they should and a lot of garbage minutes stats. The simple answer to why he is not playing is because of style of play. He'll be more involved when we play more athletic teams.
 
Penn State game was not garbage, Sanders was out and Laurent played great.
 
Pikiell is giving playing time based on performance ,foul trouble and matchups.Laurent needs to improve his outside shot and dribble drive to the basket because Freeman and Gettys are the inside post players.
 
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Playing on a freewheeling team with no depth, being asked to play 28-30 minutes a night and scoring points in an up-tempo system is far different than a defensive-first, half court, more focused game plan, where you have a game plan on both ends of the court.

Sanders numbers are all down from last year as well, Mike Williams PPG and shooting percentages may look exactly the same this year vs last year when the season ends....Both Sanders and Williams are playing complete, team-oriented basketball vs last year. Williams is gobbling up rebounds, loose balls, scraping for everything, which is how certain stat-sheets are graded, not by PPG or RPG

Laurent is fine, he is not going to score double digits in this system but will have more than enough opportunities the rest of the year to grow into his role as a winning basketball player. Eugene was brought in, because as we move into the teeth of the B1G calendar, his size and length will be more likely to have an impact in the next months. Laurent will need to match that effort, but it will always be graded on defense, rebounding, are you efficient based on grading defensive rotations, box-outs, etc.

Losing basketball teams grade or look at PPG, because you have to outscore your opponents to win.....winning basketball teams don't allow second shots down the stretch of games, get rebounds and do the things Mike Williams is doing, while developing a leadership trait early in the season.....that's where Laurent's value will eventually show up and will he'll add most value to the roster.
 
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NewJerseyHawk said:
Playing on a freewheeling team with no depth, being asked to play 28-30 minutes a night and scoring points in an up-tempo system is far different than a defensive-first, half court, more focused game plan, where you have a game plan on both ends of the court.

Sanders numbers are all down from last year as well, Mike Williams PPG and shooting percentages may look exactly the same this year vs last year when the season ends....Both Sanders and Williams are playing complete, team-oriented basketball vs last year. Williams is gobbling up rebounds, loose balls, scraping for everything, which is how certain stat-sheets are graded, not by PPG or RPG

Laurent is fine, he is not going to score double digits in this system but will have more than enough opportunities the rest of the year to grow into his role as a winning basketball player. Eugene was brought in, because as we move into the teeth of the B1G calendar, his size and length will be more likely to have an impact in the next months. Laurent will need to match that effort, but it will always be graded on defense, rebounding, are you efficient based on grading defensive rotations, box-outs, etc.

Losing basketball teams grade or look at PPG, because you have to outscore your opponents to win.....winning basketball teams don't allow second shots down the stretch of games, get rebounds and do the things Mike Williams is doing, while developing a leadership trait early in the season.....that's where Laurent's value will eventually show up and will he'll add most value to the roster.
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This plus stats for some players tend to be inflated on bad teams.
 
NewJerseyHawk said:
Playing on a freewheeling team with no depth, being asked to play 28-30 minutes a night and scoring points in an up-tempo system is far different than a defensive-first, half court, more focused game plan, where you have a game plan on both ends of the court.
Sanders numbers are all down from last year as well, Mike Williams PPG and shooting percentages may look exactly the same this year vs last year when the season ends....Both Sanders and Williams are playing complete, team-oriented basketball vs last year. Williams is gobbling up rebounds, loose balls, scraping for everything, which is how certain stat-sheets are graded, not by PPG or RPG
Laurent is fine, he is not going to score double digits in this system but will have more than enough opportunities the rest of the year to grow into his role as a winning basketball player. Eugene was brought in, because as we move into the teeth of the B1G calendar, his size and length will be more likely to have an impact in the next months. Laurent will need to match that effort, but it will always be graded on defense, rebounding, are you efficient based on grading defensive rotations, box-outs, etc.
Losing basketball teams grade or look at PPG, because you have to outscore your opponents to win.....winning basketball teams don't allow second shots down the stretch of games, get rebounds and do the things Mike Williams is doing, while developing a leadership trait early in the season.....that's where Laurent's value will eventually show up and will he'll add most value to the roster.
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Hawk, I agree. Coach P is playing ten guys in many combinations. He needs this group to be a unit, especially on defense. Laurent may or may not have bought in, we don't know. My guess is that he has. That does not mean that the coach feels that the team plays better with him on the court or not. Also, coach may like him with certain people and not like him when other players are on the court. Whatever, Laurent needs to produce more on offense when he is in because the guards are all playing great defense. He needs to be as good as the rest of them defensively and produce on the offensive end. To those posters who want him to get more time. That means someone has to lose time. Which of the three guards do you want to take time away from to get Laurent more minutes
 
Why are some ignoring the obvious? SB played 10 players, 7 were guards.

Rutgers went 3 guards for most of the game. Williams got 29 minutes, Johnson got 31 minutes. Even the walkon guard Batie played. It's really obvious why Laurent and Eugene O. only got 5 minutes each.

Against perimeter teams the minutes will go to the best perimeter defenders....Williams, Johnson, Sanders and Thiam.
 
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Laurent had 15pts, 5Rebs vs Drexel in our second win this year. So he's shown he can contribute in this system too. It most be effort. I love this team, so overall I'm happy. But I'm I'm also aware that Pikel hasn't shown the ability (yet) to recruit in the type of talent Eddie left him. He's swung and missed on everything but Baker. Adding Laurent to the loss of Johnson, Sanders, Williams, Sa, and Freeman after next year is cornering. If Pikel was landing Alvarado type players then I'd be less worried
 
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I see coach P is using 10 men..and to me the last few spots are based on how well defense is played
the KEY is how well you play defense

seems he is TRYING to use Doorson as a #10
but thus far he hasnt done much( 1 turnover, 1 foul & was yanked quickly last night)

Omoruyi and Laurent are fighting for more minutes
thus far Omoruyi is playing better D than Laurent from what ive seen

It might also explain why Bullock hasnt been used....
he is a bull from what I have read....but that could also translate into "fouls a lot" hence he sits

just some thoughts
 
Reading the game, defensive intensity, and soft passing have been a problem.

Jonathan has a chance still, but performance = minutes.
 
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RU-Choppin-Ohio said:
Why are some ignoring the obvious? SB played 10 players, 7 were guards.

Rutgers went 3 guards for most of the game. Williams got 29 minutes, Johnson got 31 minutes. Even the walkon guard Batie played. It's really obvious why Laurent and Eugene O. only got 5 minutes each.

Against perimeter teams the minutes will go to the best perimeter defenders....Williams, Johnson, Sanders and Thiam.
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I appreciate the facts, Choppin.
 
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