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With the talent on the team, and the in coming class.

ruready4somefootball

ruready4somefootball

Heisman Winner
Nov 10, 2003
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What do you think is a realistic win total if a completely new staff and HC were hired and were the right choice? I don't believe anything less than 7 or 8 wins can be listed since, with a year under their belts, Flood as bad as he's been would win 6, since there's a better than 50-50 chance he'll win 5 this season. Of course 6-6 is not the goal next season, but if the talent level isn't good enough to win 7 or 8 games does it make sense to cut Flood loose? I guess if you factor in future recruiting classes then you have to no matter what, and if the talent level isn't up to par right now, then that's on Flood anyway. We've seen quick turn a rounds across the country many times, but I always wonder if the talent WAS already there and the staff didn't know how to utilize it,or if that new staff just was able to squeeze out way more out of the existing talent. Chicken or egg theory maybe?
 
"but if the talent level isn't good enough to win 7 or 8 games does it make sense to cut Flood loose?"


It depends. Do you think having Flood in charge makes the program better each year or worse?

If things look like they are in a downward spiral (my take), cutting him loose would be the smartest move RU could make. Each year they wait makes the program get farther and farther away from being competitive in the Big Ten.
 
The talent level will save Flood. RU is young in areas & will win games next year so Flood will actually get an extension.
 
we all know this is really not a qb problem--it's many issues
 
Personally I don't see him surviving but if he did there's no excuses anymore. Floods 1st recruiting class where he gets full credit or blame will be 4th year seniors next year. He is now solely responsible for the players you see on the field. No Schiano credit or blame,

Before anyone assumes anything about next year, you have to ask yourself if you see a competitive team in 2016? Yes, something like 38 of the 44 players on the 2 deep are back. Are they good enough with an extra year of experience and growth to go head to head with the rest of the conference?

You also have to ask yourself if Flood is getting the most out of the kids? Yes, they play every down like it's their last no matter the score but are they playing their best? Are they well prepared? Are they being given the tools to succeed? It's a two way street and something the decision makers are going to have to determine.

Hope this makes sense. I worked late last night, watched a recording of the game and got 4.5 hours sleep. I'm surviving by big cups of coffee right now lol.
 
ru66 said:
we all know this is really not a qb problem--it's many issues
Click to expand...

...then the OP's original premise (talent/ depth) is inaccurate. If that's the case, and our staff has not built up adequate starting units and depth, isn't that on the staff?


Joe P.
 
JoeRU0304 said:
...then the OP's original premise (talent/ depth) is inaccurate. If that's the case, and our staff has not built up adequate starting units and depth, isn't that on the staff?


Joe P.
Click to expand...
lol, I never gave a premise, I merely, I think, asked questions. I really don't know what the right answers are. Is there enough talent and it wasn't used to the fullest,or has recruitment been so bad the program has no chance to turn it around? Can a new fresh face turn things around quickly or are we years away? I DON'T know.
 
You are giving Flood too much credit saying 6 wins next year. I think 3-4 wins next year with Flood. We have so much talent on the field? Who's going to replace Carroo our main TD player? I expect 5-6 win with another coach and better the next year. If we just look at the difference in wins it's not much but we will continue to have 2-4 wins every season with Flood. The difference in wins will keep more fans in the stadium and have unexpected wins occasionally against the Big Boys.

The problem is our fan's expectation. I think a good great coach will win 7-8 wins most seasons for Rutgers. This coach may be great but we still are playing coaches that are the BEST in College football. We are going to have 3-4 automatic losses with Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State and Penn State. All are in the top 15 recruiting class. Our great coach might get us into the 35-25 range.
 
We have some individual players that are legitimate Big 10-caliber, but as a program we're playing a lot of kids that aren't really at that level. The myth that we're "young" has been debunked numerous times now - the vast majority of kids we're playing have been in the program at least three years, so it isn't like we're playing a bunch of true freshmen. Maybe some will take a quantum leap with better coaching.

I think no matter what happens this really is a teardown and rebuild project. If you bring in a new coach you need to expect a year or two of bad results with the hope of a turnaround in year three.
 
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knightfan7 said:
Personally I don't see him surviving but if he did there's no excuses anymore. Floods 1st recruiting class where he gets full credit or blame will be 4th year seniors next year. He is now solely responsible for the players you see on the field. No Schiano credit or blame,

Before anyone assumes anything about next year, you have to ask yourself if you see a competitive team in 2016? Yes, something like 38 of the 44 players on the 2 deep are back. Are they good enough with an extra year of experience and growth to go head to head with the rest of the conference?

You also have to ask yourself if Flood is getting the most out of the kids? Yes, they play every down like it's their last no matter the score but are they playing their best? Are they well prepared? Are they being given the tools to succeed? It's a two way street and something the decision makers are going to have to determine.

Hope this makes sense. I worked late last night, watched a recording of the game and got 4.5 hours sleep. I'm surviving by big cups of coffee right now lol.
Click to expand...
Knightfan7 good post. I personally feel he doesn't survive. A lot of people like to point to that 38 players returning on the two deep and that the experience will pay off next year.

However, if that experience is not showing progress then it's basically useless. We have 10 games of experience for our new starters but we are seeing regression instead of progression. Could other teams just be progressing at a faster rate? Sure but that still leaves you behind the game. If you are gaining experience but are being taught incorrectly then next year you will just be a year older doing things the wrong way. If a guy does a job for 30 yrs. but was not taught properly how to do that job from the start. Sure he's got a lot of experience but it doesn't mean he's doing the job correctly for those 30 yrs.

In conclusion I just don't see how a year of experience is going to make that much difference next year when that year is almost up and no significant progress has been achieved. Will we be better sure but just not enough to make any significant gains in the win column.
 
We need schemes that compensate for lack of talent....flood can't recruit and he uses a pro style offense where you need major talent to execute against good defenses....this is why we are getting blown out by good teams.
 
cRURah said:
This thread is depressing to even think about Flood coaching the team next year.
Click to expand...
We lose our best player in Caroo. Our offensive line will lose Lumpkin. The line has not been good this year. Laviano will most likely be starting quarterback. Chances are that the offense could be worse next year without Caroo.. On defense, worried about linebackers other than Longa. The defensive backs are young, but how high is their ceiling? Team could be very similar next year.
 
With a really good coach, this could be a good team. Good coaches know how to get the best out of their players. And they do things with schemes to hide a weakness and make players look better.
Just look at Michigan. They don't have any stars on offense. But they have an offense that puts their players in a position to score. That's what a good coach does.
Anyone think a blitz up the middle all game would result in multiple sacks on a Michigan QB? No chance. UM HC would have stopped that after the first time it happened. RU has no idea how to stop it and it's been done now 4 straight games.
 
The cupboard;s not bare on talent, but the overall level is lower. And I think we lose more than we gain for next year. As I've seen very little growth of the players with this coaching staff, I see no reason I will going forward, e.g., last year we were hearing how we had 2 Sunday players on the OL (from BTN announcers). Little talk of that now. And I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone (other than Flood) who believes Laviano has improved one iota over the year.

Michigan has shown what a real "coach" can do. Of course we're not getting someone THAT good. But we have to start. Not waste the talent we have.
 
There is a enough talent on the team right now plus more will return that didn't play this year or is coming in next year that a new H|C and staff could at least us get us back to a bowl game. However, lets not kid ourselves, it will take years to undo the damage that Flood has done. We won't get back to anything close to 2006 levels for at least 3-4 years.
 
rutgersdave said:
You are giving Flood too much credit saying 6 wins next year. I think 3-4 wins next year with Flood. We have so much talent on the field? Who's going to replace Carroo our main TD player? I expect 5-6 win with another coach and better the next year. If we just look at the difference in wins it's not much but we will continue to have 2-4 wins every season with Flood. The difference in wins will keep more fans in the stadium and have unexpected wins occasionally against the Big Boys.

The problem is our fan's expectation. I think a good great coach will win 7-8 wins most seasons for Rutgers. This coach may be great but we still are playing coaches that are the BEST in College football. We are going to have 3-4 automatic losses with Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State and Penn State. All are in the top 15 recruiting class. Our great coach might get us into the 35-25 range.
Click to expand...
Outside of running back position group we are weak in every area,
 
zappaa said:
Outside of running back position group we are weak in every area,
Click to expand...

DING DING DING!!! People need to stop making our position groups out to be so good based on things like, I don't know, "spring games," "summer camp," and games against FCS teams and/or God-awful ones.
 
zappaa said:
Outside of running back position group we are weak in every area,
Click to expand...

I think RU has made a significant upgrade at DT. I believe Wilkins and Joseph are better right now than Kirksey and Stephenson were as seniors and they're still relatively young. If Hamilton comes back with the true freshman behind him, it's could be a position of strength imo.
 
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People also seem to assume that young players will automatically get better with experience. That's not always the case. Sometimes they stay the same or even regress.
 
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knightfan7 said:
I think RU has made a significant upgrade at DT. I believe Wilkins and Joseph are better right now than Kirksey and Stephenson were as seniors and they're still relatively young. If Hamilton comes back with the true freshman behind him, it's could be a position of strength imo.
Click to expand...

This. Flood is definitely not the answer, but one thing he has done better than Schiano is recruit some solid dlinemen. Flood has missed on the 4 and 5 star big dudes, but his 2 and 3 star big dudes have developed and are making contributions very early in their careers.
 
OriginalKnight said:
People also seem to assume that young players will automatically get better with experience. That's not always the case. Sometimes they stay the same or even regress.
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume this is in response to me since it came right after my post. Do you not believe the 2 NT's are already an upgrade over their predecessors?
 
redking said:
This. Flood is definitely not the answer, but one thing he has done better than Schiano is recruit some solid dlinemen. Flood has missed on the 4 and 5 star big dudes, but his 2 and 3 star big dudes have developed and are making contributions very early in their careers.
Click to expand...

They're making "contributions" because there are no other options. Let's not get too crazy bout how well these guys have "developed."
 
Nuts, no one knows how good these kids could be because they've not been developed. Most of these guys had multiple offers and offers from some good teams. That tells me someone saw something in them. But that talent still has to be developed.
Plus, and think about this, the defense has done pretty well early in most games including OSU until the offense had them on the field forever. so no, it's not the kids. It's development, it's schemes (I'm not sure our coaches know what that means) but a good coach, no these kids would do much better.
 
You have four teams with better coaches and talent in our Big division, OSU, MSU, PSU and UM, it's a toss at this point between Indiana & Maryland (quite frankly Indiana looks a lot better than we do right now) so let's say you still lose four and go 1-1 with Maryland and Indiana in 2016 you are still going to lose 5 games at a minimum and I don't care who the coach is. If you begin to out recruit or recruit at par with the upper tier teams it will still take multiple years to get players who may be equal to these four teams. KF has had 3 years to recruit for the BIG and his recruiting is below par against his peers, there is just no other way to look at it. RU is not moving up in the BIG anytime soon even with a new coach. (plus it is ridiculous to expect a new coach to out coach people like Urban Meier and Di'Antonio. this is a complete rebuild even with the right guy.
 
vandalen1 said:
Nuts, no one knows how good these kids could be because they've not been developed. Most of these guys had multiple offers andoffers from some good teams. That tells me someone saw something in them. But that talent still has to be developed.
Plus, and think about this, the defense has done pretty well early in most games including OSU until the offense had them on the field forever. so no, it's not the kids. It's development, it's schemes (I'm not sure our coaches know what that means) but a good coach, no these kids would do much better.
Click to expand...

....the other guy just told us he has "developed" these kids, hence my comments, and looking good for a single drive, against OSU, has NOTHING to do with the O. Teams pretty much figure our D out after a drive or two. Sorry, this D SUCKS, and it isn't going to be much better next year, without a staff that has a clue.

BTW - whose offer lists are you talking about?
 
No doubt our DB's are not developed. Hell, they haven't even had much time to learn the position yet.

But look at the Dline- Lambert 4 star ND, OU, OSU, Auburn and 20 other offers. AS a LB. RU makes him an DE.
JPO 3 star offers PSU, Mich St and 10-12 others. A DE that we make a DT.
Wilkens was a 3 star with BC and Maryland offers. few others.
And Mera was a 4 star. These were not low ranked kids. Do you really think none of them had any potential?

To me, this D doesn't suck. These coaches, who put together game plans suck. Anyway, with these coaches, I don't see anything changing. And I doubt the administration will make a change either.
 
vandalen1 said:
No doubt our DB's are not developed. Hell, they haven't even had much time to learn the position yet.

But look at the Dline- Lambert 4 star ND, OU, OSU, Auburn and 20 other offers. AS a LB. RU makes him an DE.
JPO 3 star offers PSU, Mich St and 10-12 others. A DE that we make a DT.
Wilkens was a 3 star with BC and Maryland offers. few others.
And Mera was a 4 star. These were not low ranked kids. Do you really think none of them had any potential?

To me, this D doesn't suck. These coaches, who put together game plans suck. Anyway, with these coaches, I don't see anything changing. And I doubt the administration will make a change either.
Click to expand...

This "D doesn't suck"???? You wanna think that over again:

Total D - 101st
Pass D - 117th (thanks to 3 balls thrown directly to defenders, yesterday, otherwise we might be about 125th)
Run D - 53rd (but there are 28 teams, currently ranked below us, who give us less ypc AND we still have to play the #9 Run Offense in the nation this Saturday)
Scoring D - 109th
Tackle for Loss - 71st
Sacks - 118th
3rd Down Conversion - 97th
Defensive TD's - didn't make the list (2+ makes the list)
 
AreYouNUTS said:
This "D doesn't suck"???? You wanna think that over again:

Total D - 101st
Pass D - 117th (thanks to 3 balls thrown directly to defenders, yesterday, otherwise we might be about 125th)
Run D - 53rd (but there are 28 teams, currently ranked below us, who give us less ypc AND we still have to play the #9 Run Offense in the nation this Saturday)
Scoring D - 109th
Tackle for Loss - 71st
Sacks - 118th
3rd Down Conversion - 97th
Defensive TD's - didn't make the list (2+ makes the list)
Click to expand...
No I don't need to think it over. You can play 3 FR DB's and expect much with these coaches. It doesn't take a friggin genius to figure that out. Yo show me once thing these coaches have done to protect the CB's, one thing nuts and I'll agree with you. Give me 1. You must know quite a bit about how to play this game. So you watch it live. What have you seen?
And don't give me they just stink because that's bull shit. You watch, you know the game, tell me what you've seen from a coaching perspective.
 
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