You don't have to read between the lines

[motel00]

When you consider what Coach Pikiell stated on press day, Eddie Jordan was really doing a very poor job in several areas and although not intended as such, his words were in part an indictment of the Jordan era.

We all knew Jordan simply did not know how to coach defense, it was quite apparent. But Pikiell really stressed the fact that these players have not been pushed to play the type of and level of defense needed to be successful over the last several years. He feels they're STILL not there which says a lot about what wasn't happening last year in practice.

Jordan himself admitted that he doesn't coach rebounding. This was a mind blower. He seemed to think that high school kids should come to college knowing what it takes to rebound in the Big10. Great to see Pikiell and staff are coaching it, emphasizing it and establishing it as a condition to getting playing time.

But the statement regarding conditioning is really damning. It was pretty clear that these guys were very poorly conditioned athletes which led to injuries and second half blowouts. But Pikiell termed them the worst conditioned group he's ever seen. And if you're not conditioned, it takes away from a team's toughness as well. It will be interesting to see if this team can stay healthy and deep this year given the clear focus on getting stronger and in better shape.

I think we all had our doubts about Eddie pretty early on (although I never doubted his desire to do well for RU despite the obvious failings) but PIkiell's comments have really exposed the very fundamental and basic elements that were amazingly absent from this team during Jordan's years and (sorry to say) what a profoundly awful job he was doing. We all saw the injuries and poor performances and all suspected he was an NBA assistant who was way over his head as a college head coach but this really puts it all into perspective.

I hope we can refrain from establishing bench marks for this coach and just appreciate the way the team plays. I think it's clear Pikiell knows what he needs to do to turn things around, his plan is one we can all get behind, he has the best staff I've ever seen here, and it's not going to produce miracles but hopefully we'll see a team grow, play tough, and make us proud whatever the outcome. That would be a tremendous first step.

 

[higgins3]

Eddie Jordan was an NBA coach. Steve Pikiell is a college coach.

I think we are in for an uptrend. I am bullish in this market.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

You cannot say "it's clear that they had injuries because they were very poorly conditioned athletes". It's not clear and it's not fair. That's just piling on. I could just as easily make the case that the players were poorly conditioned because they had no one pushing them in practice due to lack of talent on the roster and because there were not enough healthy guys to practice against. Eddie's gone - it didn't work out, he wasn't a good college coach. Pikiell seems to be doing the right things to make the best of what he has and being in the college game for 25 years is a major plus. In the end, improving the talent level will be his most important task.

 

[Plum Street]

Eddie did a poor job and it was time for him to go . But let's remember the situation he walked into . We weren't going to get a better coach and there were doubts that we would have enough scholarship guys in year 1. He stabilized the program from a PR standpoint so pikiell can now take over scandal and drama free.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The team practices hard and has a complete staff right now...what I think fans will see is a gradual improvement as the schedule gets tougher....which may be problematic for those looking at wins and losses as the only way to judge success.......so even though there will be some really ugly basketball played early, while they work out the rotation and get everyone used to each other, hopefully they avoid a couple crazy losses in the process and can develop some confidence and chemistry at the same time.

 

[higgins3]

Jordan and his staff recruited Sanders, Johnson, etc. Pikiell got them to stay.

EJ was good for something. It was not rebounding.

 

[higgins3]

The team practices hard and has a complete staff right now...what I think fans will see is a gradual improvement as the schedule gets tougher....which may be problematic for those looking at wins and losses as the only way to judge success.......so even though there will be some really ugly basketball played early, while they work out the rotation and get everyone used to each other, hopefully they avoid a couple crazy losses in the process and can develop some confidence and chemistry at the same time.

3pt defense will be the difference between if the team can get 16 wins versus 11 wins. And Gettys. Do not forget about Gettys.

 

[lester19]

The lack of conditioning may have been due to the fact that they were down to 7 scholarship players and a couple of walk-ons. They couldn't go full bore in practice for fear of someone else getting injured.

 

[Mr_Twister]

"Conditioning" is partly new coach party line stuff. Most new coaches cite conditioning. Let's face it -- Rutgers needs to make a quantum leap in talent to compete in the Big Ten. New coaches can not say at media events that the talent on the roster is inadequate to compete. You have to have players on the team that would see significant minutes and contribute if they were on other Big Ten rosters. We didn't have too many of those last season, and it had nothing to do with conditioning.

 

[4theknights]

Eddie, despite all the issues, did bring in "Shoes" and Pikiell was smart enough to retain him. "shoes" has been key for us in forming this roster.

 

[RU_DIO]

Eddie frigging sucked.

 

[knights1212]

That is true. Shoes deserves his due.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

How many B1G wins has a Shoes recruit have? Isn't it 1 or 0. Too early to give Shoes credit for anything. Let things play out. Games are NOT won in October.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

One interesting thing I noticed was the difference between Pikiell and Chris Ash in addressing the past.

Ash will essentially refuse to comment on anything that occurred prior to his arriving here. He makes it seem like he has zero knowledge of any of the players, as if it was a true clean slate. All he will typically say in interviews is that "he doesn't know about what was done in the past, but ..." He acts like everything that happened before he arrived is totally irrelevant.

Pikiell has a completely different approach. He talks about last year almost as if he was part of the program last year. He uses "we" to refer to the team in the past or present context. He discusses the injuries holding us back last year, as well as the lack of a complete roster, and will detail shortcomings.

Its an interesting difference in approach. I tend to think that Ash's manner of addressing it is a bit less sophisticated. Its appealing on the surface to act like its all new and the past doesn't matter, but its ultimately not reality. The reality is that the past does matter, the experiences of the upperclassmen on roster does matter, and the things they know how to do and don't know how to do will impact the team moving forward. I like Pikiell's approach a bit better. Reality doesn't change, so moving forward doesn't necessarily require you to deny the past.

 

[Dpgru]

Cabbage - I can agree with your statements at face value with one important caveat - just because Ash chooses not to throw the previous staff under the bus with his public statements doesn't mean he isn't aware of them nor does it mean he hasn't addressed the past with the seniors behind closed doors in meetings. I am sure he told them things were going to change. The difference between the two coaches may only be what they say in public.

 

[knights1212]

Shoes got us Sanders, Doorson, Thiam and Sa who are all important to our team. He might have had a role in landing a few others but I am not certain. I think he might have had a role in getting Laurent as well. Yes we only won one BIG game last season but we hardly even had a team last year after everything that happened with the injuries.

 

[rubaseball78]

You cannot say "it's clear that they had injuries because they were very poorly conditioned athletes". It's not clear and it's not fair. That's just piling on. I could just as easily make the case that the players were poorly conditioned because they had no one pushing them in practice due to lack of talent on the roster and because there were not enough healthy guys to practice against. Eddie's gone - it didn't work out, he wasn't a good college coach. Pikiell seems to be doing the right things to make the best of what he has and being in the college game for 25 years is a major plus. In the end, improving the talent level will be his most important task.

Yes you can. Poorly conditioned athletes lead to tired athletes during games which lead to injuries.

 

[motel00]

Colonel: not piling on. If you looked at any of my posts last season, I would probably have been characterized as a Jordan apologist. But conditioning occurs in the summer and fall before the season starts. But many of the injuries that occurred were likely due in no small part to poor conditioning. But let's see what happens this year with the team clearly in better physical condition.

4theknights: that's why I specified that in particular areas Jordan was negligent. Hiring Shoes was probably the best thing he did as coach.

Mr. Twister: can't agree. I do think this team was very poorly conditioned and it was evident for the reasons stated. Of course they need to upgrade the talent and conditioning alone is not going to result in a drastic change in our fortunes but it will certainly make us a tougher opponent and establish a better culture for the talent that comes in the future. Obviously talent alone will not get it done without conditioning, toughness and accountability (another thing that was clearly lacking under Jordan).

Dpgru: I don't think Pikiell threw last year's staff under the bus. I think he was in part deferential recognizing that they had a depleted roster, etc. but brutally honest about the culture, conditioning, defense, etc. and all of these things were painfully apparent.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

How many B1G wins has a Shoes recruit have? Isn't it 1 or 0. Too early to give Shoes credit for anything. Let things play out. Games are NOT won in October.

Sorry but that is bs. You would have no team right now without Shoes. He kept the team together and then singlehandedly brought in Sa and Thiam. Shoes deserves credit.

 

[letterman]

I'm not getting excited with all the talk about conditioning,hydration, strength coaching, etc. learned my lesson with football this year .

 

[motel00]

Conditioning isn't going to translate directly into wins. The point is, it's a basic requirement of any program and it really wasn't there last year! BK gave some insight into that when he referenced soft practices that Jordan was running.

 

[RUinFla]

To be fair, EJ's experience was as an NBA HC and assistant. The guys that make it onto an NBA roster are in good condition or they would not be there. They also have some grasp of fundamentals; this can vary with the player and the program they were in. It is kind of like a person that teaches 9th Grade algebra has to first determine the basic math skills of their students, and perhaps do some remedial work. A person teaching a first year college math course expects that the students are proficient in basic math concepts, or they would not have made it through the college boards. That was Eddie; his NBA coaching experience led him to maybe make some unwarranted assumptions about the skills and conditioning of his players. Certainly not excusing him, but that is where his staff really dropped the ball.
TL

 

[RUMBA-JK]

Eddie did a poor job and it was time for him to go . But let's remember the situation he walked into . We weren't going to get a better coach and there were doubts that we would have enough scholarship guys in year 1. He stabilized the program from a PR standpoint so pikiell can now take over scandal and drama free.

spot-on Jordan took over a job that no sane coach with long term career aspirations would have touched - and Jordan had modest resources (note the $$ that Pikell did get to bring this program's staff up many notches) and one paramount instruction - do not incur any scandals
- - granted Jordan did not appear to take the world by storm - and he was used to dealing with professionals who generally took care of their basics - like conditioning - and he should have adjusted ... but his number one job was to drag this mess out into the sunshine and let the toxic aura dissipate ... time and the absence of scandal were what was needed. Now Jordan is gone and the slate is now clean and it is only up from here.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sorry but that is bs. You would have no team right now without Shoes. He kept the team together and then singlehandedly brought in Sa and Thiam. Shoes deserves credit.

Last year with Shoes we didn't have a team. Sanders and Freeman were suspended when B1G games were winnable.

People conveniently forget these important details.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

Oh please. Let's talk about this year and try not to be captain negativity. The games haven't even started yet. FIG, I know its hard for you but at least attempt to move on.

And for the record, Freeman was suspended while he was hurt (in case you conveniently forgot). Don't worry FIG, we will give you a pass when it comes to details.

You know, hope springs eternal with the new season.

 

[MCKnight2004]

I'm not getting excited with all the talk about conditioning,hydration, strength coaching, etc. learned my lesson with football this year .

To this point, while it is hard to judge from watching the open practice tonight, other than Shaq, there's not one player who looked physically different. Yes they may be in better shape, but as far as strength and bodies, that's still a work in progress to look like a BIG TEN team

 

[Vegas pj]

EJ also had a major distraction - a Housewife of DC.

 

[Dpgru]

Conditioning isn't going to translate directly into wins. The point is, it's a basic requirement of any program and it really wasn't there last year! BK gave some insight into that when he referenced soft practices that Jordan was running.

Very true. Conditioning doesn't translate to wins because all good teams are well conditioned. BUT, as we have seen from EJ's teams a lack of conditioning leads to losing, and losing big. So, a better conditioned team should at the very least be a step in the right direction.

 

[RU_DIO]

spot-on Jordan took over a job that no sane coach with long term career aspirations would have touched - and Jordan had modest resources (note the $$ that Pikell did get to bring this program's staff up many notches) and one paramount instruction - do not incur any scandals
- - granted Jordan did not appear to take the world by storm - and he was used to dealing with professionals who generally took care of their basics - like conditioning - and he should have adjusted ... but his number one job was to drag this mess out into the sunshine and let the toxic aura dissipate ... time and the absence of scandal were what was needed. Now Jordan is gone and the slate is now clean and it is only up from here.

I forgive Eddie for year 1. After year 1 he should have assessed the situation, realized what the kids had to work on, ie. rebounding, conditioning etc... and put in place processes to improve these areas. A good coach would have but Eddie didnt. He wasn't just brought in to run a clean program. He unfortunately took a bad situation and.made.it worse by bringing our program down to Littlepage levels.