Zach Martini - most impactful defensive player? Most important metric says so

[Greene Rice FIG]

Defensive efficiency just measures points allowed PER possession. To me the most pure metrics when evaluating a team's defense
Adjusted defensive efficiency adjusts defensive efficiency for the strength of the offense you are playing against.

evanmiya.com offers OFF and DEF adjusted efficiency when a player is on the court.

Based on this metric Zack Martini is our most important player on the defensive end. He also has the highest +/- on the season (not adjusted for opponent).

Worst to best
Grant 1.069
PJ 1.045
Derkack 1.008
Ogbole .994
Harper .983
Acuff .972
Sommerville .972
JaMike .968
JWill .961
Ace .956
Martini .933

 

[RUChoppin]

Defense is a team thing, not an individual thing. Stats like this fall on their face, in my opinion. Martini happens to rotate on the floor with a unit that defends well, that doesn't speak to his individual level of defense.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Defense is a team thing, not an individual thing. Stats like this fall on their face, in my opinion. Martini happens to rotate on the floor with a unit that defends well, that doesn't speak to his individual level of defense.

So your arguement is his metrics are way better than everyone else because Pike puts him on the floor with only the better defensive players?

Sorry.....don't buy that AT ALL!

This isn't a stat per say. It is a measurement of how many points are scored when a player is on the floor.

I am sorry we are better with him on the floor on D despite his inability to rebound. Our D is based on switching and he by far gets this more than any other of our bigs. In the Pike Defense this is so important.

 

[goru7]

Defensive efficiency just measures points allowed PER possession. To me the most pure metrics when evaluating a team's defense
Adjusted defensive efficiency adjusts defensive efficiency for the strength of the offense you are playing against.

evanmiya.com offers OFF and DEF adjusted efficiency when a player is on the court.

Based on this metric Zack Martini is our most important player on the defensive end. He also has the highest +/- on the season (not adjusted for opponent).

Worst to best
Grant 1.069
PJ 1.045
Derkack 1.008
Ogbole .994
Harper .983
Acuff .972
Sommerville .972
JaMike .968
JWill .961
Ace .956
Martini .933

Wonder where ACE is on this list , someone you bash repeatedly supposedly for his terrible defense. Where is Zach in the offensive metrics and on the backboards or steals or assists or anything else to help the team. ? Have to think they are at the very bottom. You have to do more than 3 points , 2 rebounds in 27 minutes. Pretty simple factual statement. Difference between winning and losing.

 

[RUJMM78]

Martini was recruited because of his 3 point shooting and leadership qualities.Rutgers loss the game to Michigan because of abysmal shooting not defense.The team simply can't get consistent performances at both ends of the court.Winning or losing is becoming more dependent on Bailey scoring at least 25 points.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Martini was recruited because of his 3 point shooting and leadership qualities.Rutgers loss the game to Michigan because of abysmal shooting not defense.The team simply can't get consistent performances at both ends of the court.Winning or losing is becoming more dependent on Bailey scoring at least 25 points.

Those leadership qualities and quite frankly experience show up on the defensive end. In a perfect world what he offers on the defensive end is the baseline. On past teams he might not be needed because everyone might be able to do what Martini does on D. Not this team.

 

[RUChoppin]

So your arguement is his metrics are way better than everyone else because Pike puts him on the floor with only the better defensive players?

Sorry.....don't buy that AT ALL!

This isn't a stat per say. It is a measurement of how many points are scored when a player is on the floor.

I am sorry we are better with him on the floor on D despite his inability to rebound. Our D is based on switching and he by far gets this more than any other of our bigs. In the Pike Defense this is so important.

No, my argument is that individual defensive metrics are tenuous at best. No individual player plays defense in a vacuum. It's not like field goal percentage, assists, or other stats where you are actively doing an individual activity that is either successful or not successful.

Defense is a team concept. You can do everything right defensively, but if your teammate isn't where he needs to be, it won't matter. Or you could do everything wrong, but the players around you are plus help defenders.

Defensive efficiency is a team stat... more specifically a lineup stat, but that sort of data is not tracked. Same goes for box plus minus, which is a combination of offense and defense.

 

[RUBigFrank]

Martini had a good game yesterday with a lot of hustle!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

No, my argument is that individual defensive metrics are tenuous at best. No individual player plays defense in a vacuum. It's not like field goal percentage, assists, or other stats where you are actively doing an individual activity that is either successful or not successful.

Defense is a team concept. You can do everything right defensively, but if your teammate isn't where he needs to be, it won't matter. Or you could do everything wrong, but the players around you are plus help defenders.

Defensive efficiency is a team stat... more specifically a lineup stat, but that sort of data is not tracked. Same goes for box plus minus, which is a combination of offense and defense.

Yes but adj def eff is not looking at any stats. When you see that much of a delta of Martini to others it cant be ignored

Same differential you would see with Caleb in past years and Myles

 

[Shelby65]

Defense is a team thing, not an individual thing. Stats like this fall on their face, in my opinion. Martini happens to rotate on the floor with a unit that defends well, that doesn't speak to his individual level of defense.

Isn’t offense a team thing too ?

Besides, that’s a cute 5th grade effort without facts:

1. he does not always, or even usually play with the better defensive grouping.
2. How come the players in your imaginary strong D are below his metrics ?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

With the sample and the difference between him and other bigs it is meaningful

 

[cRURah]

Martini had a good game yesterday with a lot of hustle!

correct, i watched him closely , he was very good.

 

[G- RUnit]

correct, i watched him closely , he was very good.

Confirms my post on BAC’s game review yesterday.
Good to know my eye test was accurate and judging correctly.

 

[seansherm]

No, my argument is that individual defensive metrics are tenuous at best. No individual player plays defense in a vacuum. It's not like field goal percentage, assists, or other stats where you are actively doing an individual activity that is either successful or not successful.

Defense is a team concept. You can do everything right defensively, but if your teammate isn't where he needs to be, it won't matter. Or you could do everything wrong, but the players around you are plus help defenders.

Defensive efficiency is a team stat... more specifically a lineup stat, but that sort of data is not tracked. Same goes for box plus minus, which is a combination of offense and defense.

Pretty sure defensive efficiency is tracked for line ups, as is box plus minus.

 

[RUChoppin]

Pretty sure defensive efficiency is tracked for line ups, as is box plus minus.

By the team, yes, but not in any site I've been able to find... unless there's something paywalled out there. I tried to cobble it together a couple years back from available info on sk dot com, but it had a lot of gaps.

 

[RUChoppin]

Yes but adj def eff is not looking at any stats. When you see that much of a delta of Martini to others it cant be ignored

Same differential you would see with Caleb in past years and Myles

Adj def eff is not looking at stats? Of course it is, just not individual player stats. It's trying to assign a team stat to a player.

 

[seansherm]

By the team, yes, but not in any site I've been able to find... unless there's something paywalled out there. I tried to cobble it together a couple years back from available info on sk dot com, but it had a lot of gaps.

Cbbanalytics.com I think is one

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Gavin Griffiths would be at the very top of this metrics if he stayed at RU, just a matter of watching the games I guess.....🤣🤣

 

[RUChoppin]

Individual on/off metrics (like evanmiya) have several issues/criticisms. Saying Martini and Bailey are our best defenders just doesn't hold water

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Adj def eff is not looking at stats? Of course it is, just not individual player stats. It's trying to assign a team stat to a player.

It says when martini is one the ice the opposition scores less

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Gavin Griffiths would be at the very top of this metrics if he stayed at RU, just a matter of watching the games I guess.....🤣🤣

Stop it. My eyeballs said team was different when Martini came in. I said it in the media TO right after he came in to one of our most respected posters. Also why would Pike play him 27 minutes?

You can ask him…..not Pike

 

[ru-baby]

Martini has been good last few games. Shots didnt fall but we never seem to get the wide open 3s other teams get. All of ours are mostly rushed or defended.

 

[Big East Beast]

So your arguement is his metrics are way better than everyone else because Pike puts him on the floor with only the better defensive players?

Sorry.....don't buy that AT ALL!

This isn't a stat per say. It is a measurement of how many points are scored when a player is on the floor.

I am sorry we are better with him on the floor on D despite his inability to rebound. Our D is based on switching and he by far gets this more than any other of our bigs. In the Pike Defense this is so important.

When you are a forward/center, rebounding is a primary defensive responsibility, not “switching”.
Antone Woolfolk would have gotten major minutes this year if he’d stayed.

 

[RUChoppin]

It says when martini is one the ice the opposition scores less

... scores less than when his positional replacement is on the floor. That speaks as much to how poor his replacement is vs how good he is, since it's a delta between on and off.

On/off metrics aren't great.

 

[RUskoolie]

OP still rides the short bus

 

[Salvi's Headband]

I've come to appreciate the Lynch scholar.

 

[PhillyRU]

I mean ultimately I think Grant is a bad defender because he's played like 8 games of college basketball and didn't have a chance to learn the ropes against St. Monmerrimack.

Martini is almost certainly a better defender than Grant/Sommerville/Dortch right now, but the latter trio should also play more and develop under pike on defense. The season is already over.

 

[G- RUnit]

The thing is watching this league, season is by no means over. A healthy and re-freshed Dylan….Just make the B1G Tourney. Many teams already in. Dare to dream.

 

[Hondo77]

The only metric that matters are wins and losses.

 

[Hondo77]

OP still rides the short bus

Now was that really necessary?

 

[seansherm]

When you are a forward/center, rebounding is a primary defensive responsibility, not “switching”.
Antone Woolfolk would have gotten major minutes this year if he’d stayed.

In Pike's defense the ability to correctly switch is pretty important, we switch so much. All you need to do was watch how Ace and Lathan repeatedly screwed it up recently.

 

[Simce91]

Gavin Griffiths would be at the very top of this metrics if he stayed at RU, just a matter of watching the games I guess.....🤣🤣

NJH HOF worthy ! 👍😁

 

[RUskoolie]

Now was that really necessary?

Have you read his posts all season? Yes absolutely.

 

[Hondo77]

Have you read his posts all season? Yes absolutely.

This is part of the reason why I've not been commenting as much over the past few years. If you don't like somebody put them on ignore. This board (as well as the football board) is just turning into stupid insults and a lot of the posters I used to see here are gone.

 

[Big East Beast]

In Pike's defense the ability to correctly switch is pretty important, we switch so much. All you need to do was watch how Ace and Lathan repeatedly screwed it up recently.

That’s a ridiculously low bar.

Would you rather have 7’0 260 lb Amari Williams’ 10 pts, 9 rebs, 1.4 blocks for Kentucky via Drexel this year?

Or 6’9 240 Bashir Jihad 12 pts, 6.2 reb, 1 blk at Arizona State via Ball State this year?

Or Antwone Woolfolk 6’9 250 8 pts, 6 rebs, 1 blk for Miami OH via RU?

We completely whiffed on replacing our three best post players all of whom had eligibility remaining.

We bet the house on Ogbole- a raw JUCO coming off a major knee injury, a true frosh and a 6’8 guy who got 3 rpg in the Ivy League.

Dylan Grant is listed at 6’7” 205
Dortch is 6’9” 205

So Ace has been forced to carry a rebounding load that takes a toll on him physically AND prevents him from getting out on the break into open floor where he’s lethal or having fresh legs for shooting.

If we were forced to settle for an undersized guy because of $$, why not go for guys like

Matt Cross 6’7 220 from UMass who averaged 15 & 8 (went to SMU)

NJ’s Rasheer Fleming 6’9 220 @ St Joes (10 pts, 7.4 rebs)

Rashawn Agee 6’7 210 Bowling Green (13.3, 10 Rebs (went to USC)

Jonnivious Smith 6’9 210 (8 pts, 8 Rebs, 1 blk (Buffalo went to USTA)

it was obvious to anyone that our frontcourt was too thin and he’d brought in too many guys with similar skillset (shooting) at the same time he had two ball-dominant nba players coming in.

Numerous people here were questioning this approach and now here we are people trying to say fighting over a screen or hedging properly is some kind of important defensive skill. That’s tablestakes.

 

[Shelby65]

I mean ultimately I think Grant is a bad defender because he's played like 8 games of college basketball and didn't have a chance to learn the ropes against St. Monmerrimack.

Martini is almost certainly a better defender than Grant/Sommerville/Dortch right now, but the latter trio should also play more and develop under pike on defense. The season is already over.

one year at a time. less reason to develop players when it’s so easy to leave.

 

[Shelby65]

That’s a ridiculously low bar.

Would you rather have 7’0 260 lb Amari Williams’ 10 pts, 9 rebs, 1.4 blocks for Kentucky via Drexel this year?

Or 6’9 240 Bashir Jihad 12 pts, 6.2 reb, 1 blk at Arizona State via Ball State this year?

Or Antwone Woolfolk 6’9 250 8 pts, 6 rebs, 1 blk for Miami OH via RU?

We completely whiffed on replacing our three best post players all of whom had eligibility remaining.

We bet the house on Ogbole- a raw JUCO coming off a major knee injury, a true frosh and a 6’8 guy who got 3 rpg in the Ivy League.

Dylan Grant is listed at 6’7” 205
Dortch is 6’9” 205

So Ace has been forced to carry a rebounding load that takes a toll on him physically AND prevents him from getting out on the break into open floor where he’s lethal or having fresh legs for shooting.

If we were forced to settle for an undersized guy because of $$, why not go for guys like

Matt Cross 6’7 220 from UMass who averaged 15 & 8 (went to SMU)

NJ’s Rasheer Fleming 6’9 220 @ St Joes (10 pts, 7.4 rebs)

Rashawn Agee 6’7 210 Bowling Green (13.3, 10 Rebs (went to USC)

Jonnivious Smith 6’9 210 (8 pts, 8 Rebs, 1 blk (Buffalo went to USTA)

it was obvious to anyone that our frontcourt was too thin and he’d brought in too many guys with similar skillset (shooting) at the same time he had two ball-dominant nba players coming in.

Numerous people here were questioning this approach and now here we are.

Did Pike bet the house on Ogbole ? Or did he utterly deprioritize the position in favor of small ball sharpshooters. Shelby believes the latter. Or, better yet…Sommerville opposed bringing in a transfer 5.

Either way, Pike absolutely did not bet on Ogbole.

 

[RUskoolie]

This is part of the reason why I've not been commenting as much over the past few years. If you don't like somebody put them on ignore. This board (as well as the football board) is just turning into stupid insults and a lot of the posters I used to see here are gone.

Put them on ignore?? No. Thats what a 12 year old does. You can choose not to read someone's opinion instead of turning your message board into an echo chamber.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

... scores less than when his positional replacement is on the floor. That speaks as much to how poor his replacement is vs how good he is, since it's a delta between on and off.

On/off metrics aren't great.

which shows how important he can be to us defensively.

the argument isn't how good of a defensive player martini is....it is how much better does he make our D and why he is on the court

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The only metric that matters are wins and losses.

which is what this measures...points scored and points allowed. just breaks it up in 2