GAME 13 OHIO STATE: One Small Step

[NewJerseyHawk]

If we really are playing for next year he should be off the ball, learning how to move without the ball. When he drives to the paint his primary focus should be looking for others. That is what we want for 2024-25.

In 2023-24 we have a players who has lead the nation in blocks and a 4/5 star recruit who is a lights out shooter. All year our small guards drive full speed, downhill in to the paint and look for neither of our best pieces. Our offensive efficiency demonstrates how that is working. Last night we got top 10 percentile results from Simpson, something that will rarely be repeated.

I just want to be clear, this is not 100% about next year, we can win games this year, with this roster.

I think we just view the game differently, in terms of roles and responsibilities.....the more rigid you make one players role, the easier it becomes for the opponent to defend us (which killed us over time last year).

I don't want Gavin Griffiths restricted into a catch and shoot role like Spencer last year. That's the easy way out.....I want him cutting to the basket, slashing and scoring and if he gets his shot blocked at the rim, like last night, I am 100% fine with it......it's better than no attempt or ability to get to the rim.

I also think there's a dimension to Gavins game, that we haven't gotten to yet....he is 6'7" and he has good shooting form. You can run a isolation for him in the post or along the wing and let him create his own offense, with the ability to rely on his shooting touch, if he cannot drive and score. He's not being guarded by forwards, he's being defended by other guards.

The goal is to look like Ohio State, where the guards are interchangeable and can create and score. There's no true difference between Thornton or Gayle in terms of creativity on offense.....(or Sensabaugh last year.

I think this roster has upside and it still has an anchor in Cliff and a willing defender in Mag. We tried to expand Cliffs offense early in the season, and every RU fan cried bloody murder. Now we have to get Mags game expanded beyond a putback and rebound player. Otherwise we are playing 3 vs 5 and have no chance of success.

We are on the right path for this season, just by playing pieces that will be here beyond this season.

We overpassed vs Mississippi State and Illinois and created unforced turnovers....it is not selfish play to take the available shots instead of forcing a bad pass, with players who are not skilled passers in the front court.

 

[kcg88]

Ultimately (and this is what bac has been saying I think) is that it's a roster construction problem. Our options are:

1. Try to force Simpson and Fernandes to become creators even though they're not really capable. This will result in some better looks for other players but also a lot more turnovers and sloppy passes. Also, we're not really sure if guys like Gavin or Mag can be dependable scorers even if they were being involved in a better way.

2. Accept that they're not creators and tell them to try to score. This results in what we saw last night: They'll take shots and some nights they'll go down, but other players are not involved and when the shots aren't falling it gets real ugly.

Either way our offense has a very firm, very low ceiling. There's no formula with this group of players that will produce high or even medium efficiency. It's just a matter of which way you'd prefer us to post a low efficiency.

 

[goru7]

Our offense was essentially Noah and Simpson going one on one to score. How many games will that lead to victories? I'm a bit skeptical that is going to be a reliable strategy

I agree that the guards are still doing too much unnecessary dribbling instead of swinging the ball and quick passes and better entry passes are needed but we missed 4 wide wide wide open 3’s in the second half by Gavin, Hyatt, Noah and Derek. Gavin’s was on a swing pass, Hyatt’s was on a pass in transition , Noah ‘s was on a swing pass and Derek was on getting his own rebound off his own Miss. so that is at least 3 more assists.

The path to wins offensively needs 30-40 from our guards , better passing from our guards to our wings and our bigs , better entry passes to Cliff , play inside out with Cliff to kick out for a 3 , stop the excessive dribbling out high , and our 3 point shooters have to at a minimum hit the wide open 3’s.
That second half defense especially the last 13-14 minutes was the first time all year we saw the famous RU defense and hustle and toughness and blocking shots and rebounding as a team. That is the defensive recipe for wins. Having seen it for the first time this year now gives me the belief we are capable of running that effort back going forward. Must have seen a huge smile on Greene’s watching that second half especially the last 10 minutes.

 

[Doctorzit]

Look at every pass to cliff (exclude the ones where he gets it at the top 20+ feet from the basket). What was the end result? Freaking brutal. WAKE UP Pike.

A coach for a CYO girls team would know it's an exercise in futility and stop the players from passing to that player if they were in a bad position to receive the ball.

Cliff sets up way too far from the basket, is looking for the ball and we pass it to him. Holy hell. Repeatedly do dumb things and you deserve the results you get.


You could tell the announcer was just flabbergasted by the frequency of low quality shots (by many of the players).


RU has to win the games where Simpson gets hot because he has been consistently not hot.

Let's face it; Cliff has a forwards body and unfortunately, can't shoot. Establishing position is difficult for him because of lack of bulk or enough strength. He is a dunking machine, but only with guards knowing how to pass to him.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

To simplify the conversation...

Everyone in the B1G, knows who Gavin Griffiths is....they've all seen him, they know his ranking, they know his skill sets.

Just because RU has a highly recruited capable shooter, doesn't mean teams aren't going to defend him closely or reduce his chances of scoring.

Also, opponents are looming at the shot attempts and PPG and common sense would indicate that Hyatt, will get more attention as the #1 shooting option from opponents scouting reports. So if Hyatt only has 1 shot attempts, it could be a lack of ball movement by RU, or it could be too much attention paid by Ohio State, focusing on Hyatt and paying close attention to Griffiths, as soon as he hits the floor.

You have to "break" scouting reports.....that means eventually, once we stopped falling asleep on guarding Jamison Battle, suddenly OSU started to struggle.....then they countered and stopped running their offense completely and let Thornton, go one on one, vs a smaller Davis.

If I am Ohio State, why would I run my entire offense into the teeth of RUs post defense with Cliff, or into Mawot Mag, if I can get an easier look, with Thornton over Davis?? That is the essential points of taking what an opponent gives you.

Then, Pike removes Davis and assigns Austin Williams on Thornton and Mag starts paying closer attention to Battle.....suddenly Ohio State was on their way to 90+ points and slowed down considerably.

The same process happens on RU....the scouting report had to be "let Simpson shoot mid range and prevent Hyatt from getting 3s.

Fans interpret that as selfish play by the guards, it is not.....it is "breaking " the scouting report.....and Simpson and Fernandes, took what the defense gave up. And it was successful, because Simpson or Fernandes are not the 1st or 2nd option to score, from an RU perspective.

That is why, I am advocating for Mag to continue to shoot and score, because he is essentially the 5th most likely player to shoot and score, behind Cliff, Hyatt, Simpson or Fernandes and Gavin Griffiths.....teams are not dedicating any resources to stop Mag from taking 3s.....if it was Oskar Palmquist in Mags spot, rest assured the scouting report would say "capable 3 point shooter".

I hope this makes sense.....the goal to win, is to have any of the 5 players on the court, willing and confident enough to shoot. If the best defensive player behind Cliff (Mag) then becomes a willing shooter AND can knock down 3s, it breaks the scouting reports by opponents, while also keeping our best defensive player on the opponents best scorer.

It is why to me, Ace Bailey is a CLEAR cut #1 player in 2024....he has extremely quick feet and erases shots from the weak side. I don't see him unable to move his feet and prevent a player from getting good shots against our defense next year....

And then on the other end of the court, his skill sets and abilities allow him to get you 20+ points, while preventing the opponents best scorer from getting 20+ points. Any notion that Cooper Flagg approaches Bailey in terms of defense is absurd, Bailey is the ultimate 2-way player and clear cut #1 recruit in 2024.

 

[RU24]

Says a lot that a loss is considered "one small step" with this team. Not at all a knock on the OP (good analysis) but the bottom line is this isn't a tournament team and the goal this year is to get experience for the young guys in advance of (hopefully) a big NCAA run next year and beyond.

 

[jonS]

This is not an NCAA team...Biggest plus from last night was Rutgers showing toughness and a willingness to attack the boards. Rutgers still has problems defending against bigger physical guards who dominate our smaller guards. Noah and Simpson were aggressive in the first half and made shots that energized the team. They were hot last night but neither have them shown any consistency in their offense . I thought Noah came in to be our PG but he's demonstrated nothing as far as directing an offense . Derek is more shooting guard than playmaker. He has talent but IMO plays selfishly--typical last night was his stealing a pass , leading a break and not passing off to an open trailing teammate while Derek is fouled. What Rutgers lacks in addition to a true PG is a true power forward who consistently rebounds and plays tough physical defense. When Cliff is away from the basket there is no one left to protect the paint and grab rebounds. Earlier this season Pike tried to play Wolf with Cliff but that combo did not work out. We got away with this last year because we had bigger guards who rebounded and RHJ was a physical presence. I'm not a fan of Hyatt. He had 10 rebounds last night but that's an outlier--his game is chucking up 3 pointers and little else. Lastly Pike needs to let Gavin play through his mistakes. His shooting is off and it's affected his confidence. His avoiding a last second shot and passing to Cliff was telling. Gavin has talent and needs to be encouraged. He's begun to show a life on defense and grab a few rebounds but needs to hit the weight room in the off season. This is a transition year for the team and it's better to give those kids who will play next year the opportunity to get minutes , work on their game , and build confidence for the future.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Ace Baileys final recruiting numbers mean ZERO.

Plop Ace Bailey on to our offense right now and what do you get?

Probably a guy hunting 23 foot 3 pointers. We aren’t utilizing Cliff, why are we so confident Ace will be utilized. Cliff is a freak athlete whose talent is being wasted.

All preseason i heard how Cliff will benefit from faster guards.

 

[jonS]

Ace Baileys final recruiting numbers mean ZERO.

Plop Ace Bailey on to our offense right now and what do you get?

Probably a guy hunting 23 foot 3 pointers. We aren’t utilizing Cliff, why are we so confident Ace will be utilized. Cliff is a freak athlete whose talent is being wasted.

All preseason i heard how Cliff will benefit from faster guards.

Agree regarding Cliff. He needs to be moving or near the basket and scoring off errant shots or dishes from a penetrating guard. He still can't do anything on offense when away from the basket .

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Cliff's game is suffering because the four guards on the roster don't have enough experience playing with a back to the basket big like Cliff beside Simpson last year. Noah played with Tre Mitchell a big who plays from the outside in and Trent Buttrick isn't close to the skill set Cliff has and Noah only played a handful of games healthy last year with Trent. JMike played with Ace who is a big that plays from the outside in. I doubt AWill played with a big like Cliff at Hartford. I could see this being Cliff's last year whether NBA or Grad Transfer to bring his stock back up, I don't see his stock improving here in 24-25.

Mag being back gives us a second post up option we've sorely lacked this year and the end of last year. It will pay dividends for Cliff later in the season when our guards figure out how to use Cliff better. Mag is getting closer to form which I like our chances vs anyone when he plays in that 7-3 vs the B1G form before injury. I think we need to do everything we can to keep Mag for 24-25 for the young guys like Bryce Dortch and Dylan Grant to learn how to play from Mag.

Yesterday's game just seemed to be a guards/wings game. Rutgers 7-11 at the rim and Ohio St. 5-11. Rutgers 4 pt edge. Mid range, Rutgers 14-32 vs Ohio St 11-24, Rutgers 6 PT edge. We lost this game in that 9-11 start from 3 pt range for Ohio St.

I've watched a game, two or more of every team in the B1G and I don't see us being a day 1 team. Penn St and Maryland look like the worst 2 teams in the B1G. Minnesota hasn't proven anything that they will be better this year. Indiana struggled to beat bad Q4 teams like Army, FGCU and Louisville were early red flags on the season like Rutgers 21-22 or like NW struggling to beat multiple bad Q4 teams, W. Mich, Depaul, and Binghamton and losing to Chicago St. Iowa is 8-6 and Michigan sits at 6-7. We are getting closer to 100% healthy and figuring things out. We will know more of the story @ Iowa, hopefully Gavin can break out of his slump vs Iowa's poor defense. That will get us closer to the team we should be this year.

 

[bac2therac]

Ultimately (and this is what bac has been saying I think) is that it's a roster construction problem. Our options are:

1. Try to force Simpson and Fernandes to become creators even though they're not really capable. This will result in some better looks for other players but also a lot more turnovers and sloppy passes. Also, we're not really sure if guys like Gavin or Mag can be dependable scorers even if they were being involved in a better way.

2. Accept that they're not creators and tell them to try to score. This results in what we saw last night: They'll take shots and some nights they'll go down, but other players are not involved and when the shots aren't falling it gets real ugly.

Either way our offense has a very firm, very low ceiling. There's no formula with this group of players that will produce high or even medium efficiency. It's just a matter of which way you'd prefer us to post a low efficiency.

nailed it...its reality where we are right now with Griffiths not providing the offense that was expected and Cliffs offensive game being totally ineffective

 

[Scangg]

Simpson won't control the ball.The offense will be focused on Harper and Bailey and the three other players on the court should have open shots .The center position will be the biggest concern and getting a player from the transfer portal should be a viable option.

Can Simpson be an effective off ball player though?

Every good game he has ever had is when he is dominating the ball and going one on one or off high ball screen and looking to score himself

 

[Scangg]

nailed it...its reality where we are right now with Griffiths not providing the offense that was expected and Cliffs offensive game being totally ineffective

This is why I said a productive Gavin would make a significant impact on this team on your post

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Can Simpson be an effective off ball player though?

Every good game he has ever had is when he is dominating the ball and going one on one or off high ball screen and looking to score himself

I have those concerns….plus he is small.

 

[G- RUnit]

I have those concerns….plus he is small

Can’t teach speed. Won Indiana game last year for us. How quickly we forget.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Can’t teach speed. Won Indiana game last year for us. How quickly we forget.

I haven't forgotten. I put all 3 of the PGs in the bucket. We are 273rd in adjusted offensive efficiency. That is a number that is inconceivable for a power conference.

Our offense is broken. It is rotten. Everything about it needs to be fixed. Our offense was the exact same as it has been all year. No different except we made more shots than most.

We talk about fool's gold.....this is EXHIBIT A. We have enough of a sample size to know having our guards look for their own shots and not look for others rarely ever works.

 

[bac2therac]

This is why I said a productive Gavin would make a significant impact on this team on your post

but its yet to happen and he is getting worse by the game and then having Derek/Noah unleashed does not help the Gavin issue

we are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't spot. I do not evny Pike's job this year

 

[G- RUnit]

I haven't forgotten. I put all 3 of the PGs in the bucket. We are 273rd in adjusted offensive efficiency. That is a number that is inconceivable for a power conference.

Our offense is broken. It is rotten. Everything about it needs to be fixed. Our offense was the exact same as it has been all year. No different except we made more shots than most.

We talk about fool's gold.....this is EXHIBIT A. We have enough of a sample size to know having our guards look for their own shots and not look for others rarely ever works.I

Unfortunately fools gold may be all we have. I agree but…..
Hyatt sometimes hits the three’s but I’d rather him drive to the hoop.
Mags was 1 for 9 against Stonehill.
Cliff has to post closer to the basket which means better position and catching the ball.
Gavin just has to hit. I rather him at top of key than the corner. I think still rushing a tad. He showed signs at MSU.
Simpson is the only guy right now I’m confident that can get off his own shot. Fernandes seems to have a good game and then a bad game. JMike hasn’t shown he is any kind of shooter. Maybe it will come with newness for the last two.
Unfortunately right now, Simpson is our best weapon.

 

[jonS]

nailed it...its reality where we are right now with Griffiths not providing the offense that was expected and Cliffs offensive game being totally ineffective

My concern is who will play point guard next year? I haven't seen enough of Dylan's game to know if he's that guy or even if he wants to be that guy? If not him , then who else?

 

[bac2therac]

its like J Mike

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

its like J Mike

Maybe there is a Anthony Collins type guy who is in his 5th year and is a great ball handler, plays D, and is Ok just setting others up

Guy from USF and transfered to real program senio year

 

[G- RUnit]

Maybe there is a Anthony Collins type guy who is in his 5th year and is a great ball handler, plays D, and is Ok just setting others up

Guy from USF and transfered to real program senio year

Mark Conlin? ;-)

 

[Scangg]

No one on the team is consistent and reliable. At least not yet. For all we know Simpson has another terrible shooting night against Iowa and Noah disappears again. Davis has a great game and Hyatt lights it up

Not everyone is going to play well every game but we need more players having a good game each night and for players with an off night to avoid contributing nothing

 

[bac2therac]

There hasn't been a game yet where everybody clicked.

Shu was close but...

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

There hasn't been a game yet where everybody clicked.

Shu was close but...

We desperately need a RAC game where we win a tight one and players feel good about themselves.

That has not happened in a LONG time

 

[bac2therac]

We desperately need a RAC game where we win a tight one and players feel good about themselves.

That has not happened in a LONG time

Indiana...but we win by 7-10 so not that tight

 

[bac2therac]

Rutgers was pretty bad at the RAc last year...Iowa, Nebby, Mich, Northwestern were not close. Illinois to start the year

Is it 5of 6 losses maybe 5 of 7

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Ohio St, Penn St, Minnesota Michigan St(MSG)
4 game Home win streak

Currently on a 4 game B1G losing streak, all without Mag
Nebraska, Michigan, NW, and Illinois

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Currently on a 4 game B1G losing streak, all without Mag
Nebraska, Michigan, NW, and Illinois

All four were double-digit losses. RU needs to right the ship in the RAC pronto.