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GAME 7 ILLINOIS: A cold slap to the face

bac2therac

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Jul 30, 2001
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My fears were realized. I know I am not alone here. The messiness could be excused for the Princeton game. It appeared we made some strides in a few of the following game. The St Peters game raised major red flags for me despite winning by 31. Today, the program has a hard cold slap in the face. Coming off of 4 successful years (albeit last year failing to make the NCAA tourney) the program has grown a reputation for being legit and a tough out. The fanbase has come to expect Rutgers to compete night and out with a gritty toughness that leans mainly on defense. We have also had expecations of competing for a NCAA bid this year. I will say some offseason departures have thrown quite the monkey wrench into this and its highlighting a bunch of recruiting miscues that to me is going to have an impact on the ceiling for this season. Next year is next year and it happens when it happens. We have Ace and Summerville coming in and fingers crossed for Dylan. I know Pike is going to get a pass for shaky recruiting this year because of what is coming next year. I get that but the plain fact may remain this team as its currently constructed does not look good enough to contend for a NCAA bid in 2024. Now this is just one game but this team as CURRENTLY constructed with this CURRENT lineup and CURRENT philosophy is not going to get it done.

For starters lost in all this is how good Illinois is. This is clearly a team going places. Illinois is likely a top 4 Big 10 team and shoo in NCAA participant. They have incredible physical presence on the court. Their rebounding philosphy is a thing of beauty. Underwood has them brimming with confidence and you can see that with their purpose offensively to attack and attack and then if they miss attack the glass. There is no shame in losing to Illinois. Its not that we lost or even that we lost by 18. Its that we looked like boys against men. To me that is a bucket of ice water to the balls for the 2023-2024 season. How does Rutgers go from being at the Illinois level and beating them 4 of 5 times to basically being wiped off their own home court by them. Pikiell traded in his big guard philsophy for a bunch of midgets who bounce off and getting swatted away like flies by a bunch of studs. Again recruiting recruiting recruiting and Pikiell has recruited a group of nice players but most of them complimentary players not Big 10 starting level. Would any of our current starting lineup except perhaps Cliff start on Illinois? Yet we keep hearing a small segment of our fans lecture on how Cam and Mulcahy were not huge losses. They were but I do not want to lament that. They are gone and Pike has to win with what he has

I keep hearing stuff how we need Mag back. Well I hope Pike went into the year knowing that Mag might not be back until January or even February. IMO, Pike has had plenty of time dating back to last year to make up for the loss of Mag. Mag is not some miracle vaccine for this team which has multiple ailments. Be prepared to play without Mag. Be prepared for the possibility that Mag does not even come back. I am not saying its going to happen but this program needs to develop with or without Mag. I actually am not happy that Mag tried to cash in and got more money from Rutgers coming off an injury. To me that just did not sit well with me given Rutgers was going to do everything to make sure Mag was well taken care of his with his health and education. So for now there is no Mag and more importantly a 100% Mag is likely needed for this team to reach any lofty goals.

As far as whats going on with court play. The continuation of slow starts has hampered Rutgers almost every game this year. Multiple horrid offensive stretches vs St Peters were realized again vs Illinois. To start the game Rutgers could not buy as basket and what an indictment that the first basket until 13:31 mark of the 1st half. By then RU was already down 14-2 and playing catch up right from the get go. A team cannot spot 15-16 point leads to a team as talented as Illinois and expect a positive result. To Rutgers credit they did not give up and showed some major resilience riding a crest from a press that bothered the bejesused out the Illini and a raucous RAC crowd that was carrying this team on its bad even when down double digits. Its amazing the resilience the RAC crowd showed in the first half. RU would raise hopes getting within 3 late in the first half. Yet it was fools gold really. RU down just 41-36 at half. It seemed like a game yet it appeared that RU had no business being that close. That proved true as RU was not able to mount any serious challenge to Illinois in the first few minutes of the 2nd half going back to its same predictable inefficient starting lineup and forcing offensive plays that have proven not to work. Alas the dam would break over a 6 minute period where Illinois just beat Rutgers down like a drum. An 18-2 run where RU had exactly zero field goals made. It was about as noxious a stretch under a Pikiell coached team as you have ever seen at the RAC and magnifed where Illinios currently sits and how much Rutgers has fallen behind.

Lineups and rotations are a hot topic on the board and they should be. 7 games and Pike still is confused. Players are being forced to do things they simply are not capable for. Perhaps a realization sets in that this year in terms of NCAA may not be in the cards. Youth and promise vs the old tired routine of trying to make something square fit in a round hole. The insistence on trying to feed the ball to Cliff every single game is not working. It did not work vs the weaker schools then why would it work against a team like Illinois. Cliff has regressed. There I said it. Yes he can play defense at time and block shots and had 8 tonight but he is just not cutting it as an offensive threat. Cliff with 5 turnovers, catching air and missing surefire alleyoops. Hyatt is our leading shot taker and our offense is running through him yet on most Big 10 teams he is a 7th player at best. 5-22 fg over the past 2 games. Our 3 small guards going 3-17 fg combined with only 4 assists. Physically totally overmatched vs Illinois. I like Woofolk but he is not starter and starting him with Cliff is killing our offense. They cannot be playing together. He had only 2 rebounds in 23 minutes!

No surprise that our biggest guard had the most impact in this game. Bravo Austin Williams who has had sporadic play all year long. Austin had 9 tonight on 3-6 fg, 4 boards, 3 assists and was almost single handedly responsible for getting RU back into the game offensively in the first half. A case could be made Austin needed to play more and that Pike took him out just as he was getting hot and unfortunately didnt start him in the 2nd. Pike's stubborness of having to play the same starters in the 2nd half is mind boggling. Not one person on this team really except for Cliff should be guarantee a starting spot on the roster. That some players like Hyatt are just given minutes needs to change.

And then we come to Gavin. You know I for one and tired of the he does not play bullshit thing especially when I saw a few small guards give up wide open 3s and get blown by for layups. Lets cut this ridiculous notion that he isnt playing because he is defense is terrible. Gavin needs to start. There I said it. He needs to be a more focal point of our offense. This is one of the highest rated recruits Rutgers has ever had yet somehow on a team that cannot put the ball on the bucket he sits during scoring droughts and when he is inserted his role is to hang out on the perimeter. Pike you need to do better with him. Gavin is part of the future. He will not be if he continues to play limited role. I get why a freshman should not shoulder a large rule. Unfortunately because of how Pike has handled recruiting, this is the situation we find ourselves at. The options are limited and I have seen enough to realize what we are seeing on offense this year is not working

And what is the Rutgers offense? Alot of discussion on the boards about identity and purpose. If RU is not converting off of turnovers it does not look they are comfortable at all in the half court set. I see alot of ill advised hoists and one on one stuff with no one under the boards not to mention Rutgers likely leading the lead in missed bunnies. There was talk in the offseason about this team being the fastest ever and capable of scoring 75 plus a game..wait wut. With what players and what shooting capabilities?

Again Illinois is very good. RU got a test today and failed. Not every team will pose the same challenges. These next two games though really are the acid test for the program. ANY hope of reaching the NCAA rests in the next 2. Wake is going to present problems on the road in a different way than Illinois more finesse than physical. Seton Hall a rivarly game that could exploit the perceived softness of Rutgers. Pike is going to have to make changes and make them quickly. Its has to happen. It needs to happen.
 
Austin Williams needs to start as he brings an experience and toughness that I don’t see in the other guards. His shooting from 3 is not great but this team has not shot the 3 that good this year anyway. They were 28% from 3 coming into this game. This team has a lot of holes.
 
Not convinced there's any kind of fix to this team. Think by late January we're going to be better off leaning on JMike and Gavin and getting ready for next year. Not saying Davis will make the same strides but Dug McDaniel was overwhelmed early as a freshman but was forced to play because of an injury and he's so much better this year for it.
 
My fears were realized. I know I am not alone here. The messiness could be excused for the Princeton game. It appeared we made some strides in a few of the following game. The St Peters game raised major red flags for me despite winning by 31. Today, the program has a hard cold slap in the face. Coming off of 4 successful years (albeit last year failing to make the NCAA tourney) the program has grown a reputation for being legit and a tough out. The fanbase has come to expect Rutgers to compete night and out with a gritty toughness that leans mainly on defense. We have also had expecations of competing for a NCAA bid this year. I will say some offseason departures have thrown quite the monkey wrench into this and its highlighting a bunch of recruiting miscues that to me is going to have an impact on the ceiling for this season. Next year is next year and it happens when it happens. We have Ace and Summerville coming in and fingers crossed for Dylan. I know Pike is going to get a pass for shaky recruiting this year because of what is coming next year. I get that but the plain fact may remain this team as its currently constructed does not look good enough to contend for a NCAA bid in 2024. Now this is just one game but this team as CURRENTLY constructed with this CURRENT lineup and CURRENT philosophy is not going to get it done.

For starters lost in all this is how good Illinois is. This is clearly a team going places. Illinois is likely a top 4 Big 10 team and shoo in NCAA participant. They have incredible physical presence on the court. Their rebounding philosphy is a thing of beauty. Underwood has them brimming with confidence and you can see that with their purpose offensively to attack and attack and then if they miss attack the glass. There is no shame in losing to Illinois. Its not that we lost or even that we lost by 18. Its that we looked like boys against men. To me that is a bucket of ice water to the balls for the 2023-2024 season. How does Rutgers go from being at the Illinois level and beating them 4 of 5 times to basically being wiped off their own home court by them. Pikiell traded in his big guard philsophy for a bunch of midgets who bounce off and getting swatted away like flies by a bunch of studs. Again recruiting recruiting recruiting and Pikiell has recruited a group of nice players but most of them complimentary players not Big 10 starting level. Would any of our current starting lineup except perhaps Cliff start on Illinois? Yet we keep hearing a small segment of our fans lecture on how Cam and Mulcahy were not huge losses. They were but I do not want to lament that. They are gone and Pike has to win with what he has

I keep hearing stuff how we need Mag back. Well I hope Pike went into the year knowing that Mag might not be back until January or even February. IMO, Pike has had plenty of time dating back to last year to make up for the loss of Mag. Mag is not some miracle vaccine for this team which has multiple ailments. Be prepared to play without Mag. Be prepared for the possibility that Mag does not even come back. I am not saying its going to happen but this program needs to develop with or without Mag. I actually am not happy that Mag tried to cash in and got more money from Rutgers coming off an injury. To me that just did not sit well with me given Rutgers was going to do everything to make sure Mag was well taken care of his with his health and education. So for now there is no Mag and more importantly a 100% Mag is likely needed for this team to reach any lofty goals.

As far as whats going on with court play. The continuation of slow starts has hampered Rutgers almost every game this year. Multiple horrid offensive stretches vs St Peters were realized again vs Illinois. To start the game Rutgers could not buy as basket and what an indictment that the first basket until 13:31 mark of the 1st half. By then RU was already down 14-2 and playing catch up right from the get go. A team cannot spot 15-16 point leads to a team as talented as Illinois and expect a positive result. To Rutgers credit they did not give up and showed some major resilience riding a crest from a press that bothered the bejesused out the Illini and a raucous RAC crowd that was carrying this team on its bad even when down double digits. Its amazing the resilience the RAC crowd showed in the first half. RU would raise hopes getting within 3 late in the first half. Yet it was fools gold really. RU down just 41-36 at half. It seemed like a game yet it appeared that RU had no business being that close. That proved true as RU was not able to mount any serious challenge to Illinois in the first few minutes of the 2nd half going back to its same predictable inefficient starting lineup and forcing offensive plays that have proven not to work. Alas the dam would break over a 6 minute period where Illinois just beat Rutgers down like a drum. An 18-2 run where RU had exactly zero field goals made. It was about as noxious a stretch under a Pikiell coached team as you have ever seen at the RAC and magnifed where Illinios currently sits and how much Rutgers has fallen behind.

Lineups and rotations are a hot topic on the board and they should be. 7 games and Pike still is confused. Players are being forced to do things they simply are not capable for. Perhaps a realization sets in that this year in terms of NCAA may not be in the cards. Youth and promise vs the old tired routine of trying to make something square fit in a round hole. The insistence on trying to feed the ball to Cliff every single game is not working. It did not work vs the weaker schools then why would it work against a team like Illinois. Cliff has regressed. There I said it. Yes he can play defense at time and block shots and had 8 tonight but he is just not cutting it as an offensive threat. Cliff with 5 turnovers, catching air and missing surefire alleyoops. Hyatt is our leading shot taker and our offense is running through him yet on most Big 10 teams he is a 7th player at best. 5-22 fg over the past 2 games. Our 3 small guards going 3-17 fg combined with only 4 assists. Physically totally overmatched vs Illinois. I like Woofolk but he is not starter and starting him with Cliff is killing our offense. They cannot be playing together. He had only 2 rebounds in 23 minutes!

No surprise that our biggest guard had the most impact in this game. Bravo Austin Williams who has had sporadic play all year long. Austin had 9 tonight on 3-6 fg, 4 boards, 3 assists and was almost single handedly responsible for getting RU back into the game offensively in the first half. A case could be made Austin needed to play more and that Pike took him out just as he was getting hot and unfortunately didnt start him in the 2nd. Pike's stubborness of having to play the same starters in the 2nd half is mind boggling. Not one person on this team really except for Cliff should be guarantee a starting spot on the roster. That some players like Hyatt are just given minutes needs to change.

And then we come to Gavin. You know I for one and tired of the he does not play bullshit thing especially when I saw a few small guards give up wide open 3s and get blown by for layups. Lets cut this ridiculous notion that he isnt playing because he is defense is terrible. Gavin needs to start. There I said it. He needs to be a more focal point of our offense. This is one of the highest rated recruits Rutgers has ever had yet somehow on a team that cannot put the ball on the bucket he sits during scoring droughts and when he is inserted his role is to hang out on the perimeter. Pike you need to do better with him. Gavin is part of the future. He will not be if he continues to play limited role. I get why a freshman should not shoulder a large rule. Unfortunately because of how Pike has handled recruiting, this is the situation we find ourselves at. The options are limited and I have seen enough to realize what we are seeing on offense this year is not working

And what is the Rutgers offense? Alot of discussion on the boards about identity and purpose. If RU is not converting off of turnovers it does not look they are comfortable at all in the half court set. I see alot of ill advised hoists and one on one stuff with no one under the boards not to mention Rutgers likely leading the lead in missed bunnies. There was talk in the offseason about this team being the fastest ever and capable of scoring 75 plus a game..wait wut. With what players and what shooting capabilities?

Again Illinois is very good. RU got a test today and failed. Not every team will pose the same challenges. These next two games though really are the acid test for the program. ANY hope of reaching the NCAA rests in the next 2. Wake is going to present problems on the road in a different way than Illinois more finesse than physical. Seton Hall a rivarly game that could exploit the perceived softness of Rutgers. Pike is going to have to make changes and make them quickly. Its has to happen. It needs to happen.

Starting 5 I like best is: Simpson, A Williams, Gavin, Mag (unfortunately Hyatt for now), and Cliff. We bring Hyatt, Noah, JMike, Wolf, and Oscar off the bench. Wolf is actually better at putting the ball in the basket than Cliff so the minute distribution may need to be like 24 Cliff/16 Wolf.
 
The whole goal of this season should be to get the young guys experience in preparation for next season. J-mike and gavin namely. Derek will be a good 7th/8th man type off the bench in 24-25 much like montez was back in the 2019-2020 season.

I just dont know how people looked at this roster coming into the season and thought this could be a tourney team. Our BEST team this century was the 2019-2020 team and that team was 11-9 in conference and likely were going to be an 11 seed, 10 at best.

The biggest tell to me is there is no “guy”. Like if we have a close game, who do we turn to for a bucket? I cant think of one.

And also, this is fine. Every program has step back years. This is ours
 
Not convinced there's any kind of fix to this team. Think by late January we're going to be better off leaning on JMike and Gavin and getting ready for next year. Not saying Davis will make the same strides but Dug McDaniel was overwhelmed early as a freshman but was forced to play because of an injury and he's so much better this year for it.
Gavin has talent but needs to add muscle and weight to be an effective stretch 4 IMO. Doesnt seem to have the lateral quickness to guard your standard 2 guards.
 
Not convinced there's any kind of fix to this team. Think by late January we're going to be better off leaning on JMike and Gavin and getting ready for next year. Not saying Davis will make the same strides but Dug McDaniel was overwhelmed early as a freshman but was forced to play because of an injury and he's so much better this year for it.
yup agreed. To me its likely a question of when that decision is made and given what is coming in and the whole portal mess to keep in mind, Pike needs to play it right
 
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Austin Williams needs to start as he brings an experience and toughness that I don’t see in the other guards. His shooting from 3 is not great but this team has not shot the 3 that good this year anyway. They were 28% from 3 coming into this game. This team has a lot of holes.
He played tough tough today, but not sure it's enough to start. Simpson really needs to up his game because I don't think Noah has the size for the B1G.
 
The whole goal of this season should be to get the young guys experience in preparation for next season. J-mike and gavin namely. Derek will be a good 7th/8th man type off the bench in 24-25 much like montez was back in the 2019-2020 season.

I just dont know how people looked at this roster coming into the season and thought this could be a tourney team. Our BEST team this century was the 2019-2020 team and that team was 11-9 in conference and likely were going to be an 11 seed, 10 at best.

The biggest tell to me is there is no “guy”. Like if we have a close game, who do we turn to for a bucket? I cant think of one.
bingo....other years there was a geo or ron or cam or even Paul to turn too late...other years we bounced back from early season losses because we had proven commodities and talent we could count on....are we counting on A10 player and 7th men type to rescue us this season
 
Is Derek Simpson getting a pass? He has by far been the most disappointing player this season after his late season success last year. He doesn’t seem involved enough, he isn’t a true point guard, and isn’t a shot maker. He still seems very weak getting to and finishing at the rim. Is it a lack of confidence? Coach seems to sit him the most when he’s not playing well. We know Carino loves his Jersey Under recruited story, but perhaps we see why now he had few power 5 offers.
 
He played tough tough today, but not sure it's enough to start. Simpson really needs to up his game because I don't think Noah has the size for the B1G.

He was the only showed any life, toughness and ability to finish at the rim! Hell, he even helped out with rebounding which is atrocious for this team so far this season. No one on this team should be entitled to a starting role or starters minutes. Anyone should be fair game to have their minutes reduced. I am all for Williams starting if the way he played today is what we would see from him on a consistent basis.
 
1. Austin Williams should start opposite D. Simpson.

2. Team plays better when Cliff is on bench. I would make Cliff a bench player and rely on a smaller lineup.
 
My fears were realized. I know I am not alone here. The messiness could be excused for the Princeton game. It appeared we made some strides in a few of the following game. The St Peters game raised major red flags for me despite winning by 31. Today, the program has a hard cold slap in the face. Coming off of 4 successful years (albeit last year failing to make the NCAA tourney) the program has grown a reputation for being legit and a tough out. The fanbase has come to expect Rutgers to compete night and out with a gritty toughness that leans mainly on defense. We have also had expecations of competing for a NCAA bid this year. I will say some offseason departures have thrown quite the monkey wrench into this and its highlighting a bunch of recruiting miscues that to me is going to have an impact on the ceiling for this season. Next year is next year and it happens when it happens. We have Ace and Summerville coming in and fingers crossed for Dylan. I know Pike is going to get a pass for shaky recruiting this year because of what is coming next year. I get that but the plain fact may remain this team as its currently constructed does not look good enough to contend for a NCAA bid in 2024. Now this is just one game but this team as CURRENTLY constructed with this CURRENT lineup and CURRENT philosophy is not going to get it done.

For starters lost in all this is how good Illinois is. This is clearly a team going places. Illinois is likely a top 4 Big 10 team and shoo in NCAA participant. They have incredible physical presence on the court. Their rebounding philosphy is a thing of beauty. Underwood has them brimming with confidence and you can see that with their purpose offensively to attack and attack and then if they miss attack the glass. There is no shame in losing to Illinois. Its not that we lost or even that we lost by 18. Its that we looked like boys against men. To me that is a bucket of ice water to the balls for the 2023-2024 season. How does Rutgers go from being at the Illinois level and beating them 4 of 5 times to basically being wiped off their own home court by them. Pikiell traded in his big guard philsophy for a bunch of midgets who bounce off and getting swatted away like flies by a bunch of studs. Again recruiting recruiting recruiting and Pikiell has recruited a group of nice players but most of them complimentary players not Big 10 starting level. Would any of our current starting lineup except perhaps Cliff start on Illinois? Yet we keep hearing a small segment of our fans lecture on how Cam and Mulcahy were not huge losses. They were but I do not want to lament that. They are gone and Pike has to win with what he has

I keep hearing stuff how we need Mag back. Well I hope Pike went into the year knowing that Mag might not be back until January or even February. IMO, Pike has had plenty of time dating back to last year to make up for the loss of Mag. Mag is not some miracle vaccine for this team which has multiple ailments. Be prepared to play without Mag. Be prepared for the possibility that Mag does not even come back. I am not saying its going to happen but this program needs to develop with or without Mag. I actually am not happy that Mag tried to cash in and got more money from Rutgers coming off an injury. To me that just did not sit well with me given Rutgers was going to do everything to make sure Mag was well taken care of his with his health and education. So for now there is no Mag and more importantly a 100% Mag is likely needed for this team to reach any lofty goals.

As far as whats going on with court play. The continuation of slow starts has hampered Rutgers almost every game this year. Multiple horrid offensive stretches vs St Peters were realized again vs Illinois. To start the game Rutgers could not buy as basket and what an indictment that the first basket until 13:31 mark of the 1st half. By then RU was already down 14-2 and playing catch up right from the get go. A team cannot spot 15-16 point leads to a team as talented as Illinois and expect a positive result. To Rutgers credit they did not give up and showed some major resilience riding a crest from a press that bothered the bejesused out the Illini and a raucous RAC crowd that was carrying this team on its bad even when down double digits. Its amazing the resilience the RAC crowd showed in the first half. RU would raise hopes getting within 3 late in the first half. Yet it was fools gold really. RU down just 41-36 at half. It seemed like a game yet it appeared that RU had no business being that close. That proved true as RU was not able to mount any serious challenge to Illinois in the first few minutes of the 2nd half going back to its same predictable inefficient starting lineup and forcing offensive plays that have proven not to work. Alas the dam would break over a 6 minute period where Illinois just beat Rutgers down like a drum. An 18-2 run where RU had exactly zero field goals made. It was about as noxious a stretch under a Pikiell coached team as you have ever seen at the RAC and magnifed where Illinios currently sits and how much Rutgers has fallen behind.

Lineups and rotations are a hot topic on the board and they should be. 7 games and Pike still is confused. Players are being forced to do things they simply are not capable for. Perhaps a realization sets in that this year in terms of NCAA may not be in the cards. Youth and promise vs the old tired routine of trying to make something square fit in a round hole. The insistence on trying to feed the ball to Cliff every single game is not working. It did not work vs the weaker schools then why would it work against a team like Illinois. Cliff has regressed. There I said it. Yes he can play defense at time and block shots and had 8 tonight but he is just not cutting it as an offensive threat. Cliff with 5 turnovers, catching air and missing surefire alleyoops. Hyatt is our leading shot taker and our offense is running through him yet on most Big 10 teams he is a 7th player at best. 5-22 fg over the past 2 games. Our 3 small guards going 3-17 fg combined with only 4 assists. Physically totally overmatched vs Illinois. I like Woofolk but he is not starter and starting him with Cliff is killing our offense. They cannot be playing together. He had only 2 rebounds in 23 minutes!

No surprise that our biggest guard had the most impact in this game. Bravo Austin Williams who has had sporadic play all year long. Austin had 9 tonight on 3-6 fg, 4 boards, 3 assists and was almost single handedly responsible for getting RU back into the game offensively in the first half. A case could be made Austin needed to play more and that Pike took him out just as he was getting hot and unfortunately didnt start him in the 2nd. Pike's stubborness of having to play the same starters in the 2nd half is mind boggling. Not one person on this team really except for Cliff should be guarantee a starting spot on the roster. That some players like Hyatt are just given minutes needs to change.

And then we come to Gavin. You know I for one and tired of the he does not play bullshit thing especially when I saw a few small guards give up wide open 3s and get blown by for layups. Lets cut this ridiculous notion that he isnt playing because he is defense is terrible. Gavin needs to start. There I said it. He needs to be a more focal point of our offense. This is one of the highest rated recruits Rutgers has ever had yet somehow on a team that cannot put the ball on the bucket he sits during scoring droughts and when he is inserted his role is to hang out on the perimeter. Pike you need to do better with him. Gavin is part of the future. He will not be if he continues to play limited role. I get why a freshman should not shoulder a large rule. Unfortunately because of how Pike has handled recruiting, this is the situation we find ourselves at. The options are limited and I have seen enough to realize what we are seeing on offense this year is not working

And what is the Rutgers offense? Alot of discussion on the boards about identity and purpose. If RU is not converting off of turnovers it does not look they are comfortable at all in the half court set. I see alot of ill advised hoists and one on one stuff with no one under the boards not to mention Rutgers likely leading the lead in missed bunnies. There was talk in the offseason about this team being the fastest ever and capable of scoring 75 plus a game..wait wut. With what players and what shooting capabilities?

Again Illinois is very good. RU got a test today and failed. Not every team will pose the same challenges. These next two games though really are the acid test for the program. ANY hope of reaching the NCAA rests in the next 2. Wake is going to present problems on the road in a different way than Illinois more finesse than physical. Seton Hall a rivarly game that could exploit the perceived softness of Rutgers. Pike is going to have to make changes and make them quickly. Its has to happen. It needs to happen.
On point
 
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1. Austin Williams should start opposite D. Simpson.

2. Team plays better when Cliff is on bench. I would make Cliff a bench player and rely on a smaller lineup.
3. Griffith should start, but needs to be more assertive, play tougher.
4. Need to stick with Hyatt thru good and bad.
 
We are currently missing 4 starters from last years team. We’ve replaced them with less experienced and possibly less talented players. We are a very short and not very tough team. I predicted 15-16 record before the season and I may have been too optimistic. I am hopeful that the team will show progress through the season and we surprise a team or two at the RAC.
 
1. Cliff. Stop with All BIG hype. He’s bad can’t rebound through contact. Can’t play with his back to the basket. Giving him post touches should count as turnovers. Throwing the ball no where near the rim actually makes me chuckle.
2. SOFT. Don’t remember an RU game with a rebounding differential like that since the Jordan years. It’s embarrassing. A lot of it has to do with how small we are at guard but look at St. Peter’s they out rebounded us too. This team plays soft, simple.
3. Guard play. Not good. Can’t finish and can’t get our bigs in space. We will continue to get bullied by bigger guards in big10 play.
4. Hyatt. Oozes potential. But that all it has been. He has RHJ potential but will never realize it with his inconsistent play. This team needs Mag and they need him to be Mag from last year.
5. Gavin. Best offensive player on the team. Needs more touches and minutes. If you’re playing fast and want to be a “85” team like Pike says, it runs through GG and you won’t get there without him. Let him eat and let him learn on the job defensively.
6. This team can still turn it around but it’s up to Pike to find the formula, otherwise it’ll get ugly.
 
The team has changed from tall guards to small guards and the result has been missed layups and getting destroyed by wide margins in rebounding.The notion that this team would be better with a up tempo offense is really wishful thinking.Its a talent/recruiting problem that hopefully will be corrected next season.
 
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My fears were realized. I know I am not alone here. The messiness could be excused for the Princeton game. It appeared we made some strides in a few of the following game. The St Peters game raised major red flags for me despite winning by 31. Today, the program has a hard cold slap in the face. Coming off of 4 successful years (albeit last year failing to make the NCAA tourney) the program has grown a reputation for being legit and a tough out. The fanbase has come to expect Rutgers to compete night and out with a gritty toughness that leans mainly on defense. We have also had expecations of competing for a NCAA bid this year. I will say some offseason departures have thrown quite the monkey wrench into this and its highlighting a bunch of recruiting miscues that to me is going to have an impact on the ceiling for this season. Next year is next year and it happens when it happens. We have Ace and Summerville coming in and fingers crossed for Dylan. I know Pike is going to get a pass for shaky recruiting this year because of what is coming next year. I get that but the plain fact may remain this team as its currently constructed does not look good enough to contend for a NCAA bid in 2024. Now this is just one game but this team as CURRENTLY constructed with this CURRENT lineup and CURRENT philosophy is not going to get it done.

For starters lost in all this is how good Illinois is. This is clearly a team going places. Illinois is likely a top 4 Big 10 team and shoo in NCAA participant. They have incredible physical presence on the court. Their rebounding philosphy is a thing of beauty. Underwood has them brimming with confidence and you can see that with their purpose offensively to attack and attack and then if they miss attack the glass. There is no shame in losing to Illinois. Its not that we lost or even that we lost by 18. Its that we looked like boys against men. To me that is a bucket of ice water to the balls for the 2023-2024 season. How does Rutgers go from being at the Illinois level and beating them 4 of 5 times to basically being wiped off their own home court by them. Pikiell traded in his big guard philsophy for a bunch of midgets who bounce off and getting swatted away like flies by a bunch of studs. Again recruiting recruiting recruiting and Pikiell has recruited a group of nice players but most of them complimentary players not Big 10 starting level. Would any of our current starting lineup except perhaps Cliff start on Illinois? Yet we keep hearing a small segment of our fans lecture on how Cam and Mulcahy were not huge losses. They were but I do not want to lament that. They are gone and Pike has to win with what he has

I keep hearing stuff how we need Mag back. Well I hope Pike went into the year knowing that Mag might not be back until January or even February. IMO, Pike has had plenty of time dating back to last year to make up for the loss of Mag. Mag is not some miracle vaccine for this team which has multiple ailments. Be prepared to play without Mag. Be prepared for the possibility that Mag does not even come back. I am not saying its going to happen but this program needs to develop with or without Mag. I actually am not happy that Mag tried to cash in and got more money from Rutgers coming off an injury. To me that just did not sit well with me given Rutgers was going to do everything to make sure Mag was well taken care of his with his health and education. So for now there is no Mag and more importantly a 100% Mag is likely needed for this team to reach any lofty goals.

As far as whats going on with court play. The continuation of slow starts has hampered Rutgers almost every game this year. Multiple horrid offensive stretches vs St Peters were realized again vs Illinois. To start the game Rutgers could not buy as basket and what an indictment that the first basket until 13:31 mark of the 1st half. By then RU was already down 14-2 and playing catch up right from the get go. A team cannot spot 15-16 point leads to a team as talented as Illinois and expect a positive result. To Rutgers credit they did not give up and showed some major resilience riding a crest from a press that bothered the bejesused out the Illini and a raucous RAC crowd that was carrying this team on its bad even when down double digits. Its amazing the resilience the RAC crowd showed in the first half. RU would raise hopes getting within 3 late in the first half. Yet it was fools gold really. RU down just 41-36 at half. It seemed like a game yet it appeared that RU had no business being that close. That proved true as RU was not able to mount any serious challenge to Illinois in the first few minutes of the 2nd half going back to its same predictable inefficient starting lineup and forcing offensive plays that have proven not to work. Alas the dam would break over a 6 minute period where Illinois just beat Rutgers down like a drum. An 18-2 run where RU had exactly zero field goals made. It was about as noxious a stretch under a Pikiell coached team as you have ever seen at the RAC and magnifed where Illinios currently sits and how much Rutgers has fallen behind.

Lineups and rotations are a hot topic on the board and they should be. 7 games and Pike still is confused. Players are being forced to do things they simply are not capable for. Perhaps a realization sets in that this year in terms of NCAA may not be in the cards. Youth and promise vs the old tired routine of trying to make something square fit in a round hole. The insistence on trying to feed the ball to Cliff every single game is not working. It did not work vs the weaker schools then why would it work against a team like Illinois. Cliff has regressed. There I said it. Yes he can play defense at time and block shots and had 8 tonight but he is just not cutting it as an offensive threat. Cliff with 5 turnovers, catching air and missing surefire alleyoops. Hyatt is our leading shot taker and our offense is running through him yet on most Big 10 teams he is a 7th player at best. 5-22 fg over the past 2 games. Our 3 small guards going 3-17 fg combined with only 4 assists. Physically totally overmatched vs Illinois. I like Woofolk but he is not starter and starting him with Cliff is killing our offense. They cannot be playing together. He had only 2 rebounds in 23 minutes!

No surprise that our biggest guard had the most impact in this game. Bravo Austin Williams who has had sporadic play all year long. Austin had 9 tonight on 3-6 fg, 4 boards, 3 assists and was almost single handedly responsible for getting RU back into the game offensively in the first half. A case could be made Austin needed to play more and that Pike took him out just as he was getting hot and unfortunately didnt start him in the 2nd. Pike's stubborness of having to play the same starters in the 2nd half is mind boggling. Not one person on this team really except for Cliff should be guarantee a starting spot on the roster. That some players like Hyatt are just given minutes needs to change.

And then we come to Gavin. You know I for one and tired of the he does not play bullshit thing especially when I saw a few small guards give up wide open 3s and get blown by for layups. Lets cut this ridiculous notion that he isnt playing because he is defense is terrible. Gavin needs to start. There I said it. He needs to be a more focal point of our offense. This is one of the highest rated recruits Rutgers has ever had yet somehow on a team that cannot put the ball on the bucket he sits during scoring droughts and when he is inserted his role is to hang out on the perimeter. Pike you need to do better with him. Gavin is part of the future. He will not be if he continues to play limited role. I get why a freshman should not shoulder a large rule. Unfortunately because of how Pike has handled recruiting, this is the situation we find ourselves at. The options are limited and I have seen enough to realize what we are seeing on offense this year is not working

And what is the Rutgers offense? Alot of discussion on the boards about identity and purpose. If RU is not converting off of turnovers it does not look they are comfortable at all in the half court set. I see alot of ill advised hoists and one on one stuff with no one under the boards not to mention Rutgers likely leading the lead in missed bunnies. There was talk in the offseason about this team being the fastest ever and capable of scoring 75 plus a game..wait wut. With what players and what shooting capabilities?

Again Illinois is very good. RU got a test today and failed. Not every team will pose the same challenges. These next two games though really are the acid test for the program. ANY hope of reaching the NCAA rests in the next 2. Wake is going to present problems on the road in a different way than Illinois more finesse than physical. Seton Hall a rivarly game that could exploit the perceived softness of Rutgers. Pike is going to have to make changes and make them quickly. Its has to happen. It needs to happen.
Good analysis
 
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Not convinced there's any kind of fix to this team. Think by late January we're going to be better off leaning on JMike and Gavin and getting ready for next year. Not saying Davis will make the same strides but Dug McDaniel was overwhelmed early as a freshman but was forced to play because of an injury and he's so much better this year for it.
Stop with the JMike is our savior stuff. He’s been as responsible as any with no offense.
 
Great review BAC.
RAC was there despite RU doing absolutely nothing to promote this game. No pre game holiday tent? It’s R House and tradition not “Our”. So lame.
Gavin has to play. Only scorer.
Woolfolk has improved his shot but rebounds have disappeared. We need rebounds.
AWilliams and Simpson
AWilliams and Noah
JMike for all his D and hustle kills us on offense.
Not ready again? So many slow starts! Pike?
Foul shooting awful again.
Oskar surprisingly good again.
Can’t get doubled in rebounding.
Down 30-15 and we cut it to 6 at half.
First half press D was good.
Illinois coach looks like a wrestling coach.
 
Boys vs. men.

Illinois wanted every rebound. They attacked the ball like their life depended on it.

Williams needs more minutes.

Trying to feed it into cliff in the post had BRUTAL results. The staff is fooling themselves if they think that will work. I will say he is doing a better job in getting the ball closer to the basket.

Outside of dunks, Wolf is better offensively than cliff.

Stop all 15 ft to 20 ft 2's effectively immediately (with more than 5 seconds on the shot clock). Jmike and Simpson each had a mid range jumpers miss early in the shot clock towards the end of the 1st half. Wtf?

What is jmike's make percentage when driving? 6%?

There is NO margin for error with this team. The staff has their work cut out for them.
 
Cliff has to get the ball closer to the hoop. Either guards or him…,

Starting way too far away from basket.

Missing Paul. It’s true.
 
I love the breakdown and share many of those thoughts. My concerns though go beyond this year. Look at this team. It’s a group of mostly mid-major talent that, even with extra summer practices, has very poor fundamentals.

Right from the get go, and against cupcakes, no rebounding, poor three point shooting, turnovers, flat play and very poor offensive movement and efficiency. To be honest you knew right away this was not a tourney team, it’s all because as starved fans, we’ve enjoyed the last couple years and didn’t want it to end, that we held too much optimistic hope for this team. This is a bad power 6 team.

Pike is a great guy who leads high character young men. However his recruiting and roster building has been below average. RHJ, Geo even back to Myles playing above themselves sugar coated poor recruiting. This year it’s time to pay the piper. Those who spoke how we were better without the best defender in the country, better without last years leading scorer and better without Paul who (for all his faults) was a Legit B1G guard were just being silly.

Next year should be more fun. Let’s hope very talented frosh can perform early and Gavin, Derek and Wolf don’t become NIL casualties. If it falls into place we could have a nice run. But what happens when Ace and maybe Dylan are gone in a year? Do we replace them or is it more of the same type of recruiting overall that leaves the cupboard bare? My real fear is the peak for the program under Pike was up vs HOU late in the second round of the NCAAs a few years ago. I fear we don’t get that far again and this was just a mirage of a few years for a program that’s used to decades of irrelevance.
 
Cliff has to get the ball closer to the hoop. Either guards or him…,

Starting way too far away from basket.

Missing Paul. It’s true.
He’s never been able to. Posts up on the “block” 12’ from the basket. Always has. Drives me nuts.
 
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Is Derek Simpson getting a pass? He has by far been the most disappointing player this season after his late season success last year. He doesn’t seem involved enough, he isn’t a true point guard, and isn’t a shot maker. He still seems very weak getting to and finishing at the rim. Is it a lack of confidence? Coach seems to sit him the most when he’s not playing well. We know Carino loves his Jersey Under recruited story, but perhaps we see why now he had few power 5 offers.
He has the body of a high school sophomore. Not sure what his workout program is, but whatever it is, he hasn't put on an ounce of muscle. Defenders are able to swat him away like a gnat. Watching him try and rebound is like watching bowling pins get knock around.
 
Pretty spot on OP.
I don’t k is what the heck I watched today and sadly I don’t think Pike does either. I think Austin Williams gets more time. Physically he’s the only guard who looked like a B1G guard today. The others were flat out overmatched today.
Pike attempting to run the offense through Hyatt is laughable.
The fact that we didn’t try ANYTHING different to start the second half is so frustrating. Did he even watch the first half. So stubborn
 
@bac2therac the one comment about recruiting is not really fair because it was assumed paul and you know who would be here. but they left late. so not all on pike. the pieces were there for this to be a tourney team. Simpson and davis would be role players not starting or playing huge minutes.

woolfolk needs to rebound better yes but so should cliff.

as far as gavin, if jaden jones didn't happen the way it did would pike treat gavin the same way? gavin has been pretty bad on D. That was why jones didn't play. pike seems reluctant to play him because of his D. I love the D philosophy but shit you gotta score to win. idk this one I'm just really throwing it out there.

edit: always awesome analysis....look forward to it every game
 
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Writing was on the wall. I posted it in other threads from other games. We’re a team with many warts and all were exposed today against a damn good quality team.

We don’t / can’t rebound. We were out rebounded 55-27 tonight and remember St Peter’s out rebound us. Is Eddie Jordan on the coaching staff?

We shoot horribly. We shot 33% today from 2 pojnt range. We can’t finish at the rim. Is there a worst finisher than Hyatt at the rim ?

Our small guards - Derek and Noah- are abused defensively.

Pike s rotations have been awful. Gavin needs more minutes as does Austin Williams.

Cliff was awful today. He needs to be coached up as his offensive game is awful. Hopefully Jay Young will return.

Some very bad minus minutes today: Hyatt -17 / Cliff -18 / Derek -24 / Gavin -17.

We were 4-8 last year after Mag got hurt. This current team is worse as there is no Caleb / no Paul / no Cam etc.

Hopefully Mag is back by when conference play starts in January but next 2 games may be ugly. I ll be thrilled with 1 win
 
Unfortunately I agree with almost everything I’m seeing in this thread.

This team isn’t even a bubble team right now. I expect things to get better as the season goes on and to knock off some quality teams in the conference but this team just isn’t as good/experienced as we’ve had the past 4 years.

I’ll wait for Hawk to make me feel better and tell us how how talented this lineup is and how much better we are than previous years or without Cam/Paul lol.
 
Unfortunately I agree with almost everything I’m seeing in this thread.

This team isn’t even a bubble team right now. I expect things to get better as the season goes on and to knock off some quality teams in the conference but this team just isn’t as good/experienced as we’ve had the past 4 years.

I’ll wait for Hawk to make me feel better and tell us how how talented this lineup is and how much better we are than previous years or without Cam/Paul lol.
Yes where is Hawk?
 
BAC said it really well. I feel like this team is afraid to be physical. There is zero swagger and we're always a step late. A few years ago teams would complain about us...we would beat the crap out of them. We are also not mentally tough or focused. Last few games I've several time where the opposing team's center rim runs in transition and we totally miss it. They get an easy pass straight to the basket and we almost don't even see it happen. To me that's a team that isn't buying into Pike's defensive philosophy or giving the effort and focus to pull it off. Something is really wrong....this doesn't look like a Rutgers team.
 
Gavin has talent but needs to add muscle and weight to be an effective stretch 4 IMO. Doesnt seem to have the lateral quickness to guard your standard 2 guards.
In basketball, muscle and weight doesn’t have the same effect as in football. He needs to learn defensive and offensive concepts that are crucial to play. There are many times where he is lost on both ends of the court. This is normal and not a dig. It’s just going to take time as it does for most freshmen.
 
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