“I’m worried for Steve Pikiell”: Coaching Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper might be challenging for Rutgers HC, claims basketball analyst

[Greene Rice FIG]

When do you have optimism, Greene? I must have missed that! Lol

I was very optimistic a few weeks before Mag went down...that didn't go well.

There have been many times over the past 6 seasons where I was optimistic. I can go through the archives to demonstrate that. A few years ago i actually got push back with a few posts when during a losing streak I posted things aren't as bad as they seem.

 

[RUsojo]

This is something Pikiell has never done it’s not outrageous to wonder if he can do it and certainly all outcomes are possible to some degree.

There have also been rumors from year to year, some public some not, of the team not necessarily gelling, or particular cliques of the team not gelling, so a potential lockeroom issue with two guys focused on a larger goal is a scenario that could lead to lack of chemistry or buy in situations.

Ace and Dylan seem to be good dudes though from what the public sees ( I did not see what @Westcoast saw at the exhibition game but seems overplayed that stuff is normal ).

 

[RUPete]

I have to admit - I am approaching this season with caution. As Sojo said, this is new territory for Pike and us. Finding chemistry can be a difficult thing too. Even though it was a much different era, remember when Duncan and Hughes became eligible after the surprise NCAA year? It took that team all year to find itself and squeak into the NIT. They were much better the following season after playing together for a year and bringing in Dabbs.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This is something Pikiell has never done it’s not outrageous to wonder if he can do it and certainly all outcomes are possible to some degree.

There have also been rumors from year to year, some public some not, of the team not necessarily gelling, or particular cliques of the team not gelling, so a potential lockeroom issue with two guys focused on a larger goal is a scenario that could lead to lack of chemistry or buy in situations.

Ace and Dylan seem to be good dudes though from what the public sees ( I did not see what @Westcoast saw at the exhibition game but seems overplayed that stuff is normal ).

Chemistry is ALWAYS great 11/1. Chemistry is very important, but to me our best team ever (Pike era) actually had chemistry problems.

@Westcoast is a good poster and has no reason to lie so that concerns me a little.

 

[Scarlet83]

I was very optimistic a few weeks before Mag went down...that didn't go well.

There have been many times over the past 6 seasons where I was optimistic. I can go through the archives to demonstrate that. A few years ago i actually got push back with a few posts when during a losing streak I posted things aren't as bad as they seem.

I believe you. Just funning around.

 

[G- RUnit]

What are you talking about ? Kyrie returned for Duke after an injury when he could have just shut it down

Everybody’s fan favorite, Mawot Mag, shut it down.
Fans drove a player who gave heart and soul and 100 % effort in Simpson off the team.
Cant help being humored by the irony.
Never know what may happen.

 

[RUsojo]

It can turn out great we’ll wait and see. I’m hoping to make the tournament. I like that we dodged Houston. If we are on the bubble we may be in a position to get the benefit of the doubt for a change with Dylan and Ace. I think it can go either way.

Pike is a coach em up type of coach. We’ve seen him bring our program to respectability by getting kids whose realistic motivation is good college player success.

Ace and Dylan are already higher up the basketball community food chain the Pike is - that’s seismic shift in team dynamics.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Everybody’s fan favorite, Mawot Mag, shut it down.
Fans drove a player who gave heart and soul and 100 % effort in Simpson off the team.
Cant help being humored by the irony.
Never know what may happen.

teammates might have been driving this bus too

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I know this is difficult for some fans to digest, but recruiting is about guidance AND allowing the freedom of kids to experience and make mistakes, so the coaching can actually correct those mistakes along the way.

And those kids also add valuable coaching experience on how to coach other high caliber, high maintenance or high profile recruits. In the Greene world, he doesn't embrace the "referral factor".....that means that perhaps Pike or RU could be more strict or hammer kids to dive for loose balls and risk a separated shoulder, but how do we think we landed these better players to begin with?? By being inflexible and rigid?? LMAO

We have the blessing of a multiyear NBA champion in Harper's Dad and he and his Mom signed off on RU. To think Pike has final say on anything, would be laughable....it's not different than Calipari or Hubert Davis or Tom Izzo etc. To acquire higher level talent, requires flexibility.

Enjoy the process because it will be other higher level recruiting people asking Dylan and Ace for their thoughts on RU.....treating them like they aren't different is silly....if Ace and Dylan are built and wired the right way, that is part of why they picked RU to begin with. I think trusting Pike, BKnight. TJ, Smoke and Jay Young etc, is what we all want to see....and let the RAC environment and fanbase, take over the excitement/energy factors.

RU is blowing up in hoops social circles, social media and that's all what the goal should be, when we hire any coach, add visibility and become an attractive option, near NYC...... I don't think anyone can really appreciate what this will ultimately mean for RU, it may be a decade long term positive impact, in my opinion.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

NJH and I kind of agree on things here and he kind of agrees with Goodman's premise.

This isn't fantasy baseball. You don't just draft a bunch of good pitchers (bad strategy IMO) and all of a suddenly be a team that wins with pitching.

Pike isn't Dan Hurley. Pike is a Top 10 coaching in college basketball and he put us on the map by winning with defense, rebounding and toughness. He isn't an offensive mind and we don't have offensive minds sitting as assistant coaches. We had Gavin last year and quite frankly the staff didn't know how to use him in the offense. i think a grand total of 5 times did we actually run the 1 play we had for him that had Cliff set a down screen.

when we win at Rutgers it is because of defense.

Now it is OK to have 40% of our lineup not to play 100% and dive for loose balls and aggressively go after rebounds?

I am not concluding that Ace and Dylan won't be wired to play harder when the ball isn't in their hands or the man they are guarding have the ball. I think there is a good chance we see significant improvement over what we saw in the exhibition game.

In 1 year we aren't going from the 1986 Bears to St. Louis Rams of what ever the F the year was.

 

[linzalonic]

Of course I do. Do you realize how much money both of these guys are going to make in 8 months? We are both fans so i don't want to be a jerk....but you may be Alex Verdugo here. Have fun playing golf today and sorry you made the last out.

You'll have to explain the Verdugo comment because it makes zero sense.

Ace/Dylan NIL income is not a predictor of their effort on the court.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You'll have to explain the Verdugo comment because it makes zero sense.

Ace/Dylan NIL income is not a predictor of their effort on the court.

You mentioned i was out of left field

Yankees lost, thankfully, and now he can play golf

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Ace/Dylan NIL income is not a predictor of their effort on the court.

How about the exhibition game and AAU games?

 

[linzalonic]

How about the exhibition game and AAU games?

Have you seen their full AAU games? I have not. Only highlights. I do know that AAU is notorious for inattentiveness towards team defense. It doesn't predict how hard they will play next week and beyond.

I attended the exhibition. I didn't notice any glaring effort shortcomings. I did notice poor positioning / boxing out at times by both players. It was an exhibition a month before the regular season, so I wasn't overly concerned by it. It's great fodder for the coaching staff to point out during film review.

Do you acknowledge the sequence when Dylan got the crowd pumped up by completely shutting down SJU's PG during a half court set?

If either player slacks on D / rebounding during the regular season, I'll fully acknowledge it. But we haven't seen them play a regular season game yet. And while they will make substantial money this year, their performance will impact how much they stand to make in the pros. Even NBA GM's value defense, hustle and rebounding.

 

[lion1983]

NJH and I kind of agree on things here and he kind of agrees with Goodman's premise.

This isn't fantasy baseball. You don't just draft a bunch of good pitchers (bad strategy IMO) and all of a suddenly be a team that wins with pitching.

Pike isn't Dan Hurley. Pike is a Top 10 coaching in college basketball and he put us on the map by winning with defense, rebounding and toughness. He isn't an offensive mind and we don't have offensive minds sitting as assistant coaches. We had Gavin last year and quite frankly the staff didn't know how to use him in the offense. i think a grand total of 5 times did we actually run the 1 play we had for him that had Cliff set a down screen.

when we win at Rutgers it is because of defense.

Now it is OK to have 40% of our lineup not to play 100% and dive for loose balls and aggressively go after rebounds?

I am not concluding that Ace and Dylan won't be wired to play harder when the ball isn't in their hands or the man they are guarding have the ball. I think there is a good chance we see significant improvement over what we saw in the exhibition game.

In 1 year we aren't going from the 1986 Bears to St. Louis Rams of what ever the F the year was.

I do not even know what to do with a post like this ... which basically says RU's prospects will never be other than a middle of the pack, grind it out, defensive focused only, occasional NCAA appearance, program. And in this new portal environment, RU will NEVER be able to compete for top 25 portal players ... and the program is doomed to mediocrity with the occasional lucky development of a 3- to 4-year player who develops into a star ... sort of the Northwestern type-program (best year was with a 5th year senior, Boo Boui (sp), as an example).

Hey, maybe Pikiell is clueless how to coach offensive talent ... and maybe Rutgers can ONLY win if RU has a top 5 defense nationally (i.e. like UVA and Bennett) - but with a ceiling of the occasional NCAA invite.

Or ... maybe ... maybe Pikiell has never had the transformative offensive talent TO coach, either at his prior stop and at RU. When you do not have access to transformative offensive talent, you have to find a way to win with ... let's say ... defense and rebounding. And we know he and his staff can teach and coach defense. I guess we will find out this season how they meld that defensive coaching capability with having transformational offensive talent.

What a depressing view of RU by some posters ... even if they are correct, it must still be very depressing to be those fans, rather than have higher hopes.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Have you seen their full AAU games? I have not. Only highlights. I do know that AAU is notorious for inattentiveness towards team defense. It doesn't predict how hard they will play next week and beyond.

I attended the exhibition. I didn't notice any glaring effort shortcomings. I did notice poor positioning / boxing out at times by both players. It was an exhibition a month before the regular season, so I wasn't overly concerned by it. It's great fodder for the coaching staff to point out during film review.

Do you acknowledge the sequence when Dylan got the crowd pumped up by completely shutting down SJU's PG during a half court set?

If either player slacks on D / rebounding during the regular season, I'll fully acknowledge it. But we haven't seen them play a regular season game yet. And while they will make substantial money this year, their performance will impact how much they stand to make in the pros. Even NBA GM's value defense, hustle and rebounding.

Please do me a favor and watch. In 1 minute and 3 seconds (youtube time) you will see 5 bad effort plays that led to us losing.
13:54 losses man back door
14:10 makes bad pass and doesn't hustle back
14:27 loses man back door on an in bound play
14:42 his man outworks him and gets the offensive rebound and scores
14:57 make a nice pass to ogobole who doesn't finish and Harper doesnt hustle back

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I do not even know what to do with a post like this ... which basically says RU's prospects will never be other than a middle of the pack, grind it out, defensive focused only, occasional NCAA appearance, program. And in this new portal environment, RU will NEVER be able to compete for top 25 portal players ... and the program is doomed to mediocrity with the occasional lucky development of a 3- to 4-year player who develops into a star ... sort of the Northwestern type-program (best year was with a 5th year senior, Boo Boui (sp), as an example).

Hey, maybe Pikiell is clueless how to coach offensive talent ... and maybe Rutgers can ONLY win if RU has a top 5 defense nationally (i.e. like UVA and Bennett) - but with a ceiling of the occasional NCAA invite.

Or ... maybe ... maybe Pikiell has never had the transformative offensive talent TO coach, either at his prior stop and at RU. When you do not have access to transformative offensive talent, you have to find a way to win with ... let's say ... defense and rebounding. And we know he and his staff can teach and coach defense. I guess we will find out this season how they meld that defensive coaching capability with having transformational offensive talent.

What a depressing view of RU by some posters ... even if they are correct, it must still be very depressing to be those fans, rather than have higher hopes.

I think it would be one thing if we had a returning core of players and added a ultra talented piece. This is just a 180.

Everything we read preseason last year was how we had shooters and we were going to play uptempo and maybe outscore teams. We had an ultra talented freshman that could the ball in the basket. In the end what happened....we got killed on the boards and our D was only above average....Everytime we have had losing skids in the past the solution has always been play the scrappiest and best defensive team.....and it always has worked.

 

[RUInsanity]

View embedded media

Please do me a favor and watch. In 1 minute and 3 seconds (youtube time) you will see 5 bad effort plays that led to us losing.
13:54 losses man back door
14:10 makes bad pass and doesn't hustle back
14:27 loses man back door on an in bound play
14:42 his man outworks him and gets the offensive rebound and scores
14:57 make a nice pass to ogobole who doesn't finish and Harper doesnt hustle back

13:54 was not a "bad hustle" play - he lost his man. It was also his 4th foul.

14:10 - you are correct

14:27 - again, not a lack of hustle, rather lack of awareness.

14:42 - seemed more like a rebound positioning issue as well as a long bounce off the previous shot.

14:57 - not sure I agree. Seemed more like he was winded.

Now how about you do others on the team including seniors and defensive specialists? For instance, how about when 5th year senior captain Martini was out positioned and gave up an offensive rebound in the first half?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We can coin certain things and explain why they may have happened.....bottom line that stuff needs to get cleaned if we want to be comfortably in the NCAA tournament.

 

[RUInsanity]

We can coin certain things and explain why they may have happened.....bottom line that stuff needs to get cleaned if we want to be comfortably in the NCAA tournament.

This is something we all can agree on. But the good news is that the season is just starting so there at least is some time to clean up and gel together as a roster.

 

[rutobs]

Green Rice FIG, I don't think any reasonable fan doesn't recognize that there are questions marks about this team. There was a huge roster turnover. How will the pieces fit together? Will the superstar freshman live up to the hype? Will we get any rebounds 🙂? It will take time for those questions to be answered. In my opinion, Pike is a very good coach and I tend to be an optimistic fan, so I believe that ultimately those questions are going to be answered positively. Based on everything I've seen and heard, I certainly don't think Dylan and Ace are going to turn out to be un-coachable prima donnas.

In any case, whether it's a college or NBA team, it takes actual experience playing together to work things out. It isn't reasonable to expect that we'd have a finished product the first time the coaches rolled the ball out on the court to start practice. My biggest issue is simply people putting too much emphasis on an exhibition game played three weeks before the start of the regular season (at a time when not too long ago we'd be holding midnight madness and celebrating the official start of practice) against what I think will turn out to be a pretty damn good power 5 team in a game played at a very fast pace. Were there issues that need to be addressed? Absolutely, that's the advantage of playing an early exhibition game. I also saw a lot of very positive things in that game.

The team is going to be really tested by the end of November. Hopefully they'll have enough time to gel somewhat in the games leading up to ND. No matter how good we're going to be at the end of the day, we may take some lumps in Vegas. Ultimately the season is going to come down to how we do in conference play. I think we're going to have a different team in late January than we had on October 17th. That's the beauty of sports, we're going to play the games and we'll find out exactly who we are as the season progresses.

I understand having some concerns. I've been a season ticket holder for more than 35 years so god knows I've got plenty of reasons to be concerned deeply ingrained in me. But I'm viewing this season in a very positive way right now. I can't wait to see how the team grows and comes together. I'm looking forward to the excitement Dylan and Ace are going to bring and to following their development. I can't wait to see all of the newcomers and returning players and what they all bring to the table. I'm also going to go on the record again and predict that Emanuel is going to contribute more than a lot of people think.

It's going to be a fun and exciting season. Part of the fun for me is seeing how the coaches and players deal with and adapt to adversity. I can't wait for the season to start. Go RU!

Very well said. I think we have some legitimate concerns going into the season, but confident we can work through them.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

View embedded media

Please do me a favor and watch. In 1 minute and 3 seconds (youtube time) you will see 5 bad effort plays that led to us losing.
13:54 losses man back door
14:10 makes bad pass and doesn't hustle back
14:27 loses man back door on an in bound play
14:42 his man outworks him and gets the offensive rebound and scores
14:57 make a nice pass to ogobole who doesn't finish and Harper doesnt hustle back

Your focus is so crazy weird. You go out of your way to criticize the two freshman who scored 25 and 20 points respectively and kept us in the game against a very talented St. John’s squad. You have nothing to say about the two 5th year seniors, JWill and Martini, who got into foul trouble within a couple minutes into the game and basically had zero positive impact on the game.

 

[RUsojo]

I do not even know what to do with a post like this ... which basically says RU's prospects will never be other than a middle of the pack, grind it out, defensive focused only, occasional NCAA appearance, program. And in this new portal environment, RU will NEVER be able to compete for top 25 portal players ... and the program is doomed to mediocrity with the occasional lucky development of a 3- to 4-year player who develops into a star ... sort of the Northwestern type-program (best year was with a 5th year senior, Boo Boui (sp), as an example).

Hey, maybe Pikiell is clueless how to coach offensive talent ... and maybe Rutgers can ONLY win if RU has a top 5 defense nationally (i.e. like UVA and Bennett) - but with a ceiling of the occasional NCAA invite.

Or ... maybe ... maybe Pikiell has never had the transformative offensive talent TO coach, either at his prior stop and at RU. When you do not have access to transformative offensive talent, you have to find a way to win with ... let's say ... defense and rebounding. And we know he and his staff can teach and coach defense. I guess we will find out this season how they meld that defensive coaching capability with having transformational offensive talent.

What a depressing view of RU by some posters ... even if they are correct, it must still be very depressing to be those fans, rather than have higher hopes.

my honest opinion what’s depressing is your view of that post. If you are a fan of college sports and not just one college team, there is an understanding that the description of Rutgers general ceiling is something that can be appreciated and when fulfilled still be considered successful.

Laddering up in college sports doesn’t happen often. When it does, it’s typically bc you either happened to luck onto the absolute best coach in the country on his ascension journey to a blue blood, or you spend significantly more money as an administration and fanbase than the schools in that direct tier above you.

There is no shame in accepting, owning, and celebrating program status such as ours when we achieve the goals a program of that nature is reasonably expected to achieve by the standards of the college sports world.

 

[Degaz-RU]

my honest opinion what’s depressing is your view of that post. If you are a fan of college sports and not just one college team, there is an understanding that the description of Rutgers general ceiling is something that can be appreciated and when fulfilled still be considered successful.

Laddering up in college sports doesn’t happen often. When it does, it’s typically bc you either happened to luck onto the absolute best coach in the country on his ascension journey to a blue blood, or you spend significantly more money as an administration and fanbase than the schools in that direct tier above you.

There is no shame in accepting, owning, and celebrating program status such as ours when we achieve the goals a program of that nature is reasonably expected to achieve by the standards of the college sports world.

Let me get this straight — It’s depressing that lion is taken aback by Greene’s negative take on two future lottery picks (and Rutgers’ chances this year) and desires a path for Rutgers to excel this year, but it’s NOT depressing that you’re basically accepting mediocrity and accepting our middling “status” in the college sports hierarchy?

With all due respect, sojo, that’s poppycock.

I’m not devoting my passion, energy, time, and money to accept our so-called “status.” I want our sports teams to achieve greatness, whatever our historical “status” in the college sports hierarchy might be.

And in terms of this year’s basketball team, we should be hoping for greatness — even if we end up being disappointed in the end.

 

[RUBlackout]

Let me get this straight — It’s depressing that lion is taken aback by Greene’s negative take on two future lottery picks (and Rutgers’ chances this year) and desires a path for Rutgers to excel this year, but it’s NOT depressing that you’re basically accepting mediocrity and accepting our middling “status” in the college sports hierarchy?

With all due respect, sojo, that’s poppycock.

I’m not devoting my passion, energy, time, and money to accept our so-called “status.” I want our sports teams to achieve greatness, whatever our historical “status” in the college sports hierarchy might be.

And in terms of this year’s basketball team, we should be hoping for greatness — even if we end up being disappointed in the end.

1000%

 

[Rhuarc]

Everybody’s fan favorite, Mawot Mag, shut it down.
Fans drove a player who gave heart and soul and 100 % effort in Simpson off the team.
Cant help being humored by the irony.
Never know what may happen.

If Derek Simpson left the team because of the fans and not his shooting ability, that might be more of a indictment on him. Just sayin.....

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Let me get this straight — It’s depressing that lion is taken aback by Greene’s negative take on two future lottery picks (and Rutgers’ chances this year) and desires a path for Rutgers to excel this year, but it’s NOT depressing that you’re basically accepting mediocrity and accepting our middling “status” in the college sports hierarchy?

With all due respect, sojo, that’s poppycock.

I’m not devoting my passion, energy, time, and money to accept our so-called “status.” I want our sports teams to achieve greatness, whatever our historical “status” in the college sports hierarchy might be.

And in terms of this year’s basketball team, we should be hoping for greatness — even if we end up being disappointed in the end.

we were Mag being healthy and one additional rotation player away from a ream that could have won it all 2 years ago.

The path to being an elite team doesnt have to go through a one and done.

 

[G- RUnit]

If Derek Simpson left the team because of the fans and not his shooting ability, that might be more of an indictment on him. Just sayin.....

I don’t know. He did have a great handle, played very good D and an excellent foul shooter. Some years RU fans love players like that.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Don't know these guys but Jim Calhoun just said about the same thing the Carino arricle. Pikiell has to let them play. Mentions how Pikiell likes to win games 65-60 but needs to be comfortable winning 95-90.

 

[PaKnight]

I don’t know. He did have a great handle, played very good D and an excellent foul shooter. Some years RU fans love players like that.

I don’t recall the fans being overly harsh to him, not sure where you are getting the fans drove him away.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don’t know. He did have a great handle, played very good D and an excellent foul shooter. Some years RU fans love players like that.

The inability to pass to others is the part the fans didn't appreciate. Definitely appreciated his hustle

 

[RUInsanity]

I don’t know. He did have a great handle, played very good D and an excellent foul shooter. Some years RU fans love players like that.

But that's not really the point you made. I believe you were attempting to indicate that Simpson transferred because he was driven away by RU fans. The (likely) reality is that he transferred as a result of the fact that he would have lost significant playing time this season with Harper on the roster. He probably saw the writing on the wall and sought out a new program for more minutes.