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8 Man Rotation

Good-Knight

Good-Knight

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Jul 21, 2008
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The most obvious strategy is to play your best players the most minutes. Coach K can take his super talented teams and put 6 scholarship guys that were top 100 recruits in Antartica when he shrinks down to a 7 man rotation starting with the ACC Conference tourney. I actually think 8 is optimal. At RU after Geo and Harper the next 10 guys seem pretty close. I guess you can say Johnson's minutes are pretty guaranteed. That leaves 9 guys for 5 spots. Come Jan 1, 2020, who is going to go dormant? Maybe it's McConnell or Matis but not both. Peter Kiss would need a great OOC. Did Yeboah come a long way to play sparingly? Is Mulcahy told to wait til next year? Who do you see as definitely in the mix and who is in danger of being marginalized?
 
Good-Knight said:
The most obvious strategy is to play your best players the most minutes. Coach K can take his super talented teams and put 6 scholarship guys that were top 100 recruits in Antartica when he shrinks down to a 7 man rotation starting with the ACC Conference tourney. I actually think 8 is optimal. At RU after Geo and Harper the next 10 guys seem pretty close. I guess you can say Johnson's minutes are pretty guaranteed. That leaves 9 guys for 5 spots. Come Jan 1, 2020, who is going to go dormant? Maybe it's McConnell or Matis but not both. Peter Kiss would need a great OOC. Did Yeboah come a long way to play sparingly? Is Mulcahy told to wait til next year? Who do you see as definitely in the mix and who is in danger of being marginalized?
Click to expand...
Our strength lies in our depth. Don’t see a reason why we’d feel a need to cut down to a rigid 8-man rotation at any point in the season.
 
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I went back and looked at Pike's Stony Brook rotations here: https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/distribution-of-minutes.152397/#post-3480355

These were my takeaways:
- It looks like Pike likes going 10-11 deep, but that the last 2-3 guys in the rotation tend to only get between 6.5-8.0 min
- He's not afraid to switch players lower in the rotation into the starting lineup occasionally, especially in non-conference play. Possibly due to injury/matchup, but also possibly to send messages to starters
- He tends to tighten up a bit in conference play, with the lowest guys in the rotation getting fewer minutes than they do in non-conference and fewer guys seeing starts
- He tends to have 4-5 players each year that miss 6-10 games entirely. This may be due to injury/illness, but we also saw this at times at Rutgers, where a guy like Doorson or Sa might not see the floor against certain matchups
 
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Geo Harper Young Myles Shaq Yeboah Mathis Caleb would be my top 8 with Kiss and Doucoure getting less minutes. Paul is a wild card. I hope he gets more minutes in some of the OOC schedule to get him ready for B1G play.
 
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Johnson, Carter, and Doucoure are the only 3 bigs. Unless we're going back to the days of 6'5" Rashod Kent playing center, I think Doucore can count on 12 minutes.
 
Very simple! Most great college teams play they're best 5. Pike at times I question his rotations. Can't appease all 11 or 13 players. Play your best 5..All possible NBA prospects that can play.

Pg. Young -can score, defend, shoot, pass.

G. Baker-can score, defend, shoot, pass.

SG. Caleb-can shoot, defend, rebound, pass, length, slightly score.

PF. Ron-can shoot, rebound, score, slightly defend.

C. Myles-score, rebound, pass, defend, length.

Paul in for Young. Paul can play.
Mathis in for Baker
Kiss in for Caleb
Yeb/Carter/Douc in for Ron
Carter/Douc in for Myles

We can most definitely win with this starting line up...All 5 potential NBA prospects.
 
Rutgrsman said:
Very simple! Most great college teams play they're best 5. Pike at times I question his rotations. Can't appease all 11 or 13 players. Play your best 5..All possible NBA prospects that can play.
Click to expand...

No team has a 5 player rotation. Most great college teams have at least an 8-man rotation.

Even Duke's team last year, with 3 of the first 10 draft picks in the 2019 NBA draft, had a rotation of 8 guys averaging at least 14 minutes and a 9th averaging 8.6 min.
 
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I seriously doubt we will have an 8 man rotation. I believe it will include 10 and at times all 11. All of our guys deserve to play and are good enough to play. We don't want to force guys to leave.
 
Rutgers is not good enough to afford taking minutes away from the 6th, 7th and 8th best players and gving them to the 9th, 10th, and 11th best players. Stepping down in talent makes us less competitve. It is actually a very importantfor coach to identify his starting five and then the next three. I'm not saying no minutes for 9th, 10th, and 11th, but only a few minutes in games that are not close. Of course the 8th best in December might not be the 8th best in February. Remember how Pike basically stuck Issa Thiam in the janitor's closet when he wasn't getting it done on the court.
 
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Playing only 5 was not my main point. That's why I made mention who should be each starters back up. My point was, play those 5 majority of the minutes with Mathis being 6th man. All 5 of those starters have high BB IQs and 4 of those guys have NBA scout interests, Myles, Caleb, Ron and Geo.

Duke played their 4 best guys an average of 36 min, Virginia played their best 3 guys 30 + min and the other 2 20 + min. My point is play your horses majority min and we will win.

7th - 8th graders and younger deserve to play not grown men. Play your horses and let's win and worry about feelings later. No playing time means get your but in the gym and work!
 
If we have an 8 man rotation that would mean......
injuries OR guys not ready to play

Neither we want.

I hesitate even guessing what minutes distribution is going to look like....so many unknowns.

Educated guess
Baker 30+
Harper 26+
Young 20+
Yeboah 20+
Myles 20+
Mathis 20+

That is 136 bare minimum....adding 20 to Carter or Duke to round 40 minutes at the 5 you have 44 minutes left

Caleb
Kiss
Mulcahy

Not political correct.....gun to my head...10 game moving average minutes

Baker 32
Harper 26
Yeboah 26
Myles 24
Young 22
Mathis 22
Caleb/Kiss 18
Carter 14
Duke 8
Mulcahy 8

Again mega guess...I had to make a prediction. I think Yeboah and Harper will 80-90% man the 4th perimeter spot (aka the "4"). 50% of the time there will be 2 PG on the floor (Young, Mulcahy, Baker). Caleb will almost certainly take all those minutes and Kiss will have to fight to stay in the rotation, BUT he is 1 injury away from playing a role.

Defense will mean a lot who plays and I may be light on Mathis.

I could totally be wrong on Baker and he could move back to the pack as someone who AVERAGES in a 10 game moving average 24-28 minutes. He needs to significantly improve his shooting. There appears to be PGs on this roster so he no longer has something no one else has.

Yeboah a big wild card here. Is he a 6'6'' Keith Hughes? Is he a 6'6'' tweener that has a tough time adapting to longer and faster competition. No idea
 
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Before I SMH. Why wouldn't you play your best players 30 + min?

Michigan St. Played 3 players 30+min. They Win. Why not us?

Harper only 26 min. He's a horse! Can play BB at another level.. Just curious why he shouldn't get 30 + min.

Your numbers make no sense. Young only 22 min. He's a horse.
Pike tried that last year by playing Kiss and Issa neither can play. Those min should have gone to the freshmen. That's 3 or 4 games RU could have won. Can't win trying to play everyone.. 8 players that's it. Unless injured, foul trouble etc..js.
 
Rutgrsman said:
Before I SMH. Why wouldn't you play your best players 30 + min?

Michigan St. Played 3 players 30+min. They Win. Why not us?

Harper only 26 min. He's a horse! Can play BB at another level.. Just curious why he shouldn't get 30 + min.

Your numbers make no sense. Young only 22 min. He's a horse.
Pike tried that last year by playing Kiss and Issa neither can play. Those min should have gone to the freshmen. That's 3 or 4 games RU could have won. Can't win trying to play everyone.. 8 players that's it. Unless injured, foul trouble etc..js.
Click to expand...

Because our best players aren't Cassius Winston and Xavier Tillman. You're assuming Harper could've played at the same level if he played 50% more minutes.
 
We talk too much about averages when each in-game performance will also play a factor in minutes.

If Geo is having an off day, I suspect Caleb will get some of his minutes. Same with every other player, starter or not. There is someone equally good, ready to jump in and take his place.

If we win 20 games I’m not gonna kill Pike for not giving more “average” minutes to the guys we think should play the most.
 
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My guess -- rotation will be up to 11, but the total number of minutes you play at 7-11, will be highly dependent on how strong your defensive play is. This is just a hunch.
 
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RU can win this year. May not make it to the dance this year, but if RU strategically prepare for next year this is the time to do it. Play your horses more min, they are the future. MSU is not that far ahead of RU. RU was kicking their butt last year but emploded. Should've played the horses more. RU can beat MSU or atleast be competitive. Put Young on Winston different story. He's the difference maker. IMO Young is better than Simpson. Definitely a better shooter and just as good of defender. Young will give those guys problems. RU is ready to take the next step, play your horses. Lol. .Ron is ready! Just like his dad, he exploded as a junior at Miami. Solid sophomore year. Not highly recruited out of highschool. So, play Jr. Play that starting 5 Majority min. There's other teams that have no Winston nor Tillman but WIN. These guys are very special, keep them on the floor.. Off the bench.. Mathis, Yeb, Carter, Paul.
 
top 8 I think it's fairly straightforward...
Baker
Young
Caleb
Harper Jr
Johnson
Mathis
Carter
Yeboah
--what's less clear is the breakdown in minutes and rotations...I assume Baker, Harper, and Johnson will start and be in crunch time...Pikell may tinker with different combinations in OOC...
 
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Great question? We do know MJ, RH, GB will start. We have no idea how the min will be distributed. Game plan should be starters dont come out unless it's for a break, foul trouble etc. We do know who's in at the end of the game because of last year. 3 above, next was Caleb and Eugen. should be young, caleb. Because what they bring. Young defense, tenacity, maturity, passing and scorer. Caleb best shooter on the team (ft% 3pt%) length, defense, scorer, passing and rebounder. So why wouldn't you have those guys in at ANY POINT of the game. Who else on the bench could bring all those assets. No one. JS.
 
Have to see if he can play first. If in fact he can play and he's better than a starter, then that starter gets bumped. He should have an opportunity to take a spot. Most teams that WIN! Has 3 or 4 players that can: shoot, dribble, pass, rebound, defense, high IQ etc. That should be the barometer. Playing guys that have the most assets. Theirs a whole lot of players that does not have one two of those assets. One dimensional. College and NBA. Teach kids to be multi dimensional players. Called being a basketball player. All Truth JS.
 
I don't get it. GRF has Caleb McConnell for only 18 minutes combined with Kiss. Caleb has interest from a pro scout. IS GRF not watching the same Caleb that I have been watching. I also believe Carter will get over 14 minutes. I still believe we will be over an 8 man rotation. We should have a minimum of 9 and I believe in the OOC it will be 11 and for most games it will be 10.
 
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I Agree. Probably too busy watching elephants and horses on YouTube than watching RU basketball games. Lol!!
 
Greene Rice FIG said:
If we have an 8 man rotation that would mean......
injuries OR guys not ready to play

Neither we want.

I hesitate even guessing what minutes distribution is going to look like....so many unknowns.

Educated guess
Baker 30+
Harper 26+
Young 20+
Yeboah 20+
Myles 20+
Mathis 20+

That is 136 bare minimum....adding 20 to Carter or Duke to round 40 minutes at the 5 you have 44 minutes left

Caleb
Kiss
Mulcahy

Not political correct.....gun to my head...10 game moving average minutes

Baker 32
Harper 26
Yeboah 26
Myles 24
Young 22
Mathis 22
Caleb/Kiss 18
Carter 14
Duke 8
Mulcahy 8

Again mega guess...I had to make a prediction. I think Yeboah and Harper will 80-90% man the 4th perimeter spot (aka the "4"). 50% of the time there will be 2 PG on the floor (Young, Mulcahy, Baker). Caleb will almost certainly take all those minutes and Kiss will have to fight to stay in the rotation, BUT he is 1 injury away from playing a role.

Defense will mean a lot who plays and I may be light on Mathis.

I could totally be wrong on Baker and he could move back to the pack as someone who AVERAGES in a 10 game moving average 24-28 minutes. He needs to significantly improve his shooting. There appears to be PGs on this roster so he no longer has something no one else has.

Yeboah a big wild card here. Is he a 6'6'' Keith Hughes? Is he a 6'6'' tweener that has a tough time adapting to longer and faster competition. No idea
Click to expand...
Baker is still the best shooter on the team right now I believe. Shooters stay on the court.
 
knights1212 said:
I don't get it. GRF has Caleb McConnell for only 18 minutes combined with Kiss. Caleb has interest from a pro scout. IS GRF not watching the same Caleb that I have been watching. I also believe Carter will get over 14 minutes. I still believe we will be over an 8 man rotation. We should have a minimum of 9 and I believe in the OOC it will be 11 and for most games it will be 10.
Click to expand...


Educated guess...there are only so many minutes for a ton of players.

I could be very wrong...

You only get 200 minutes....How about you take a stab.

Answer cant be
Baker 34
Mulcahy 17
Young 30
Mathis 26
Caleb 26
RHJ 32
Yeboah 28
Carter 20
Johnson 28
Duke 12
Kiss 12
 
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Baker is best at creating high-percentage shots with his pull-up jumper. But for my money Caleb is the best pure shooter.
 
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Game plan should be:
Jy 30 Pm back up jy if in trouble. Or just slide gb or CM over if pm is not completely ready.
Gb 29 MM, CM, or PM
Cm 29 MM, YA or Pk
Rh 30 YA, and/or SC
MJ 20 SC
MM 17
SC 15
Ya 15
Pm 10
5 or so minutes left to play with.

So many players can play different positions. Therefore no drop offs and everyone can clock minutes. Even for PK and Duke. Especially due to injuries, foul trouble, rest etc. That starting 5 can pretty much do everything. Reminds me of St. Johns team who came to the rack and ran RU off the floor. Their starting 5 all had many assets and could flat out play basketball. All 5 clock 30 + min and WIN! We didn't have that. Too many drop offs. Just look at all the successful teams and how they divy out minutes. Best 5. RU can do that now. We have the players now. Am I missing something?
 
I wouldn't say GB is better than CM or CM is better than GB They both have many assets and can play basketball. They compliment eachother very well. Them two on the floor together I'll bet my money. Both can shoot, pass, rebound, defense, IQ, anticipation. I can go on and on.. Them two should be nurtured to play together and be good teammates.
 
knights1212 said:
I don't get it. GRF has Caleb McConnell for only 18 minutes combined with Kiss. Caleb has interest from a pro scout. IS GRF not watching the same Caleb that I have been watching. I also believe Carter will get over 14 minutes. I still believe we will be over an 8 man rotation. We should have a minimum of 9 and I believe in the OOC it will be 11 and for most games it will be 10.
Click to expand...
Agree FIG is off on Caleb and Carter
 
By February, I think it will be an 8-man core, but 9 through 11 will still play significant roles.

GUARD (80)
Baker - 30
Young - 24
Mathis - 22
McConnell - 4
Mulcahy -
Kiss -

WING (40)
Harper - 20
McConnell - 15
Yeboah - 5

BIGS (80)
Yeboah - 15
Harper - 10
Carter - 22
Johnson - 25
Doucoure - 8

Not saying Mulcahy won’t play, just having a hard time subtracting minutes from the other guards. Damn we’re deep.
 
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