Anyone who thought Ash was going to come in and compete with this roster is crazy.

[WGLTAUD]

The fact of the matter is, Flood was a horrific recruiter. He was the beneficiary of Schiano's final class (which if you want to give him credit for keeping it together, fine) and was not able to bring in substantial talent after that. Luckily, Coach Ash hasn't been competing with Old Dominion for recruits this year.

At the end of the day, Laviano might be our best and only choice at QB. Would I like to see what the rest of the players look like? Absolutely. Can I understand how Laviano is able to convince every coaching staff that he is beyond replacement? No....I don't get it. But we may just not have any viable replacements. Change doesn't automatically equal better.

Irregardless, a change at quarterback on Saturday was not going to change the outcome of the game. We did not have the athletic talent to compete with Washington, and I think we'll see the same thing in a number of games this year. No fault of Coach Ash and the staff, its just the state of the roster.

We have a great class coming in next year, and more bad news....an incoming Freshman class is not going to change the trajectory of the team over night. This is going to be a process, so anyone who wants to attack the coaching staff for "stubbornness" because they think the fan base knows more than they do is delusional. This thing will turn around, but we need to give the staff the chance to do it.

 

[RU-05]

There are still players on this squad from Schiano's final class.

Flood was not a good recruiter, no doubt, but this is not a roster devoid of talent. Not to the point where we can't compete with Washington, a team that has not been a recruiting powerhouse.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

There are still players on this squad from Schiano's final class.

Flood was not a good recruiter, no doubt, but this is not a roster devoid of talent. Not to the point where we can't compete with Washington, a team that has not been a recruiting powerhouse.

Of course there is SOME "talent" on this roster but, otherwise, but for the most part it's filled with kids who weren't highly recruited by other P5 teams. This isn't exactly new info to most of us here, agree?. Washington not only has MORE talent than us, but, they are a much better program and team as of today, no question IMHO.

BTW - here's the class breakdown:

2012 - RU 25 Wash 22
2013 - RU 44 Wash 18
2014 - RU 58 Wash 37
2015 - RU 54 Wash 31
2016 - RU 78 Wash 37

...so not only do they have more recruited talent in the program, but, they've got an excellent, much more experienced HC, in the program for his 3rd season now IIRC. That's a big difference at THIS point.

 

[rutgersdave]

Of course there is SOME "talent" on this roster but, otherwise, but for the most part it's filled with kids who weren't highly recruited by other P5 teams. This isn't exactly new info to most of us here, agree?. Washington not only has MORE talent than us, but, they are a much better program and team as of today, no question IMHO.

BTW - here's the class breakdown:

2012 - RU 25 Wash 22
2013 - RU 44 Wash 18
2014 - RU 58 Wash 37
2015 - RU 54 Wash 31
2016 - RU 78 Wash 37

...so not only do they have more recruited talent in the program, but, they've got an excellent, much more experienced HC, in the program for his 3rd season now IIRC. That's a big difference at THIS point.

There was one poster that said 2014 had to be the best recruiting year for Rutgers EVER. I had to simply explode on him but many actually defended him.

 

[newwavedave1]

The fact of the matter is, Flood was a horrific recruiter. He was the beneficiary of Schiano's final class (which if you want to give him credit for keeping it together, fine) and was not able to bring in substantial talent after that. Luckily, Coach Ash hasn't been competing with Old Dominion for recruits this year.

At the end of the day, Laviano might be our best and only choice at QB. Would I like to see what the rest of the players look like? Absolutely. Can I understand how Laviano is able to convince every coaching staff that he is beyond replacement? No....I don't get it. But we may just not have any viable replacements. Change doesn't automatically equal better.

Irregardless, a change at quarterback on Saturday was not going to change the outcome of the game. We did not have the athletic talent to compete with Washington, and I think we'll see the same thing in a number of games this year. No fault of Coach Ash and the staff, its just the state of the roster.

We have a great class coming in next year, and more bad news....an incoming Freshman class is not going to change the trajectory of the team over night. This is going to be a process, so anyone who wants to attack the coaching staff for "stubbornness" because they think the fan base knows more than they do is delusional. This thing will turn around, but we need to give the staff the chance to do it.

+1. A dose of reality that is much needed on this site. My main worry is that a poor season may lead to decommits from this class and a poor 2018 recruiting class. Patience is usually not a virtue of youngsters.

 

[Knight Shift]

+1. A dose of reality that is much needed on this site. My main worry is that a poor season may lead to decommits from this class and a poor 2018 recruiting class. Patience is usually not a virtue of youngsters.

Or our fans.
ITT we crap on our roster because we lost our first game. SMH.

 

[RU-05]

...so not only do they have more recruited talent in the program, but, they've got an excellent, much more experienced HC, in the program for his 3rd season now IIRC. That's a big difference at THIS point.

Aight, but let's not act like it is Flood's recruiting alone that is at play.

I'm not trying to get Flood off the hook here. In fact I'm glad he was fired, but I also don't want to give Ash a free pass for 3 years waiting for his guys to come through.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

There was one poster that said 2014 had to be the best recruiting year for Rutgers EVER. I had to simply explode on him but many actually defended him.

There are plenty of posters who were tricked into believing:

- every kid Flood recruited was a "hidden gem" or a "diamond in the rough"
- every kid Flood recruited was "wanted by plenty of P5 schools" despite the complete lack of, or lack of, offers most of these kids had from such programs.

...they were, for the most part, the same posters lulled into a trance with the "Dream Team '16 bullshit that was, well, NEVER happening. They wanted to believe in something that simply wasn't there, regardless of fact-based reality, which can happen with college football. We're all emotional, passionate, "fan"atics!

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Or our fans.
ITT we crap on our roster because we lost our first game. SMH.

Sorry, but that's 100% unfair and you know it, Shift. Many of us have been talking about the coming roster issues for a couple of years now.

 

[Caliknight]

There are still players on this squad from Schiano's final class.

Flood was not a good recruiter, no doubt, but this is not a roster devoid of talent. Not to the point where we can't compete with Washington, a team that has not been a recruiting powerhouse.

UW has been destroying Rutgers in recruiting. People really need to pay attention before spouting bullshit.

 

[Caliknight]

Aight, but let's not act like it is Flood's recruiting alone that is at play.

I'm not trying to get Flood off the hook here. In fact I'm glad he was fired, but I also don't want to give Ash a free pass for 3 years waiting for his guys to come through.

You'd be best served paying attention in 2020. You are going to be miserable until then.

 

[zappaa]

I know you all think I'm crazy, but the wait for us to scare the hell out of ranked teams and be competive with others is a Holy Shite is he good QB away!

 

[Knight Shift]

Sorry, but that's 100% unfair and you know it, Shift. Many of us have been talking about the coming roster issues for a couple of years now.

No it's not unfair at all. Rutgers fans should be a little classier than throwing out "we have no talent," "we lack talent", "our receivers suck" our QBs suck or the plethora of other nasty insults hurled at our team. The board Nostrodamuses can go wet their pants in private over how "right" they are (and that's what some people seem to get off on doing on this board), but they should learn to show a little restraint and class. Do you thin anybody is going to argue that we have the talent of WU, tOSU, MIchigan State, or Michigan? No. But give it a rest, and accept it for what it is.
Sorry if I disagree with you. But that is how I feel. I think Pat Hobbs would agree with me too.

 

[RU-05]

UW has been destroying Rutgers in recruiting. People really need to pay attention before spouting bullshit.

They've recruited better, but they have one top 20 recruiting class in the last 5 years. Pretty sure they will be a top 10 team after this week. They are playing above their recruiting site rankings, which is not unheard of.

 

[mikefla]

Opening game vs a ranked team when MOST others are having cupcakes
our team is what it is
slinging blame around serves no purpose
lets just support our guys and our new regime
I think we will have some GOOD wins this year still

 

[zappaa]

No it's not unfair at all. Rutgers fans should be a little classier than throwing out "we have no talent," "we lack talent", "our receivers suck" our QBs suck or the plethora of other nasty insults hurled at our team. The board Nostrodamuses can go wet their pants in private over how "right" they are (and that's what some people seem to get off on doing on this board), but they should learn to show a little restraint and class. Do you thin anybody is going to argue that we have the talent of WU, tOSU, MIchigan State, or Michigan? No. But give it a rest, and accept it for what it is.
Sorry if I disagree with you. But that is how I feel. I think Pat Hobbs would agree with me too.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
This is a fan site, thank you for the effort we trust you, go get em next week is not very interesting.
Forgive me but I had expectations of being competitive, just like a host of other mid majors do every week to ranked opponents

 

[Caliknight]

We are accepting what is.

Ash needs talent. The only question is can he recruit. Early returns say yes.

 

[RU-05]

You'd be best served paying attention in 2020. You are going to be miserable until then.

You think this team will stink for this season, and the next 3 as well?

I'm really hoping Ash is a good enough coach to not let that happen.

 

[Caliknight]

They've recruited better, but they have one top 20 recruiting class in the last 5 years. Pretty sure they will be a top 10 team after this week. They are playing above their recruiting site rankings, which is not unheard of.

So is Rutgers. Our recruiting classes under Flood were low level BCS.

And you made the direct comparison in talent. Clearly UW had far more talent. Not disputable.

 

[Caliknight]

You think this team will stink for this season, and the next 3 as well?

I'm really hoping Ash is a good enough coach to not let that happen.

Like I said in another post. I'm not looking at scores for 3 seasons at the earliest. Effort, progress as the season goes, RECRUITING.

That will tell me where this program is headed. In or conference against some teams and resources they have, I don't think people understand what a battle this is.

 

[NickKnight 1]

+1. A dose of reality that is much needed on this site. My main worry is that a poor season may lead to decommits from this class and a poor 2018 recruiting class. Patience is usually not a virtue of youngsters.

It is very possible if the head coach makes promises he
can't keep, we will have decommitments.

 

[RUaMoose]

Feels like 2001. I thought schiano said once it's built it will last forever or something along those lines

 

[NotInRHouse]

More or less where I stand...Laviano does need to be benched and the swiss cheese secondary needs to show some improvement.

 

[miketd1]

I thought he'd at least go for it down big instead of opting for a FG...

 

[WGLTAUD]

The reason for this post is clearly shown by the people saying that they won't wait for Ash to build something here. Remember, Ash had to salvage recruiting this year and get what he could. Next years class should stay in tact for the most part. A lot of these guys are signed on for Kenny Parker as much as our coaching staff, and if you read their interviews, they are excited about early playing time.

With that said, these early contributors are going to be Freshman playing against Big Ten opponents. It's not the Big East anymore where we have 3 or 4 cupcake games. This will help these kids grow up faster, and I expect a very competitive team in year 3, but not before that. With that said, if Ash is bringing in talent (and he definitely is) then you need to give him that time to build the program. We could probably put Odin in right now.....he'll get killed.


And in regards to "trashing the roster" I don't have anything bad to say about the kids playing now. They give great effort. But facts are facts. Flood didn't recruit Florida States roster. While there might be some nice players at different positions, the holes are clearly there, and you may see some of these players playing behind incoming freshman. The same thing happened to Shea's players when Schiano came in. A lot of people were unhappy to see Ryan Neill starting over upper classmen....at the end of the day, that early experience helped players like Ryan and others as seniors. Same thing with Justice Hairston going from star running back to fulltime bench duty behind Ray Rice. I don't wish that on anyone, but the best players are going to play.

 

[JoeRU0304]

The '13 and '14 classes had about 8 guys each leave the program within a year- close to 40% of the overall haul if you include guys like Gopre, Ports and Nelson who never even made it on to campus. That's not even counting the guys who stayed but may not be able to make it up the depth chart. That's not even breaking it down by position. Using a rough estimate, we're basically depending on 30-40% of 2 key recruiting classes for this and next season, a TOTAL of about 15-20 kids or so, with 3-4 at 1 position-RB, to help fill out the 2-deep (44 spots). If this estimate is accurate, that means we're likely going to need at least like 20-25 kids from the 15-16 classes to pan out (at least 3 kids have already left from the '15 class), as well as as 5 or so immediate contributors from the '17 class, just to have an adequate 2-deep to put on the field...yet some here continued to rave about all of our "talent and depth", or wonder why special teams may be starting to suffer...

...again there's nothing wrong with supporting/ liking Flood, I wish some posters here would understand what's being discussed and how discussing it isn't attempted character assassination. He seemed to recruit the interior lines and RB fairly well; nearly everything else has been washing out faster than the blue demonstration water in a Clorox commercial.


Joe P.

They've recruited better, but they have one top 20 recruiting class in the last 5 years. Pretty sure they will be a top 10 team after this week. They are playing above their recruiting site rankings, which is not unheard of.

 

[WGLTAUD]

More or less where I stand...Laviano does need to be benched and the swiss cheese secondary needs to show some improvement.

There will probably be some improvement with the coaching staff working with these kids, but if you brought in Bill Belichek, they aren't going to become the top secondary in the league because you brought in the best coaching. Coaching can help, but you need the talent first.

 

[koleszar]

Feels like 2001. I thought schiano said once it's built it will last forever or something along those lines

Well a foundation can only stand for so long before it fails. Especially when it's constantly being beaten with a sledge hammer for three years.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

It is very possible if the head coach makes promises he
can't keep, we will have decommitments.

1) what "promises" could he possibly have made thus far?

2) IMHO there's no way in hell ANY current commit doesn't realize that this is going to be a rough year. None. That being said I highly doubt THIS season will have much, if any, effect on recruiting.

 

[JoeRU0304]

Or our fans.
ITT we crap on our roster because we lost our first game. SMH.

...actually IMO I've seen a number of posters partial to Flood cackling in glee over last Saturday, which I find bizarre and demented.


Joe P.

 

[mildone]

By the numbers, we have a talent deficit to the teams we play this season that are ranked in the top 25. That's indisputable. And recognizing the reality of that should not be considered being a bad fan.

OTOH, statements like "our talent level sucks" are hyperbolic and quite possibly inaccurate. There's a world of difference between non-top-25 talent and "sucks". We might get a sense against New Mexico where we stand, but I think it's really hard to judge our talent level against the four top 25 ranked teams we play in our first six games.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

No it's not unfair at all. Rutgers fans should be a little classier than throwing out "we have no talent," "we lack talent", "our receivers suck" our QBs suck or the plethora of other nasty insults hurled at our team. The board Nostrodamuses can go wet their pants in private over how "right" they are (and that's what some people seem to get off on doing on this board), but they should learn to show a little restraint and class. Do you thin anybody is going to argue that we have the talent of WU, tOSU, MIchigan State, or Michigan? No. But give it a rest, and accept it for what it is.
Sorry if I disagree with you. But that is how I feel. I think Pat Hobbs would agree with me too.

Yes, it IS unfair, as this is a message board and subjects are spoken about, FREELY, whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, or anything else. Now tou don't have to agree with me, however, that doesn't mean the conversation can't or won't happen NOR that it isn't the truth.

We have roster issues - MAJOR ONES - like it, or not, and some of us have been spot-on about the coming of this scenario for a couple of years now. It's not about each individual kid - kids who bust their asses for this program - which YOU seem to want to make it. It's about his recruiting and the roster as a whole. That being said, HOPEFULLY, as we move along here, we see that Coach Ash and his staff know what they're doing and, not only add lots of quality depth to this roster, but, get better play out of the guys who currently make up the 105.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

...actually IMO I've seen a number of posters partial to Flood cackling in glee over last Saturday, which I find bizarre and demented.


Joe P.

Yup. I'd bet that about 75% of the posters bashing Ash felt that Flood shouldn't have been fired and/or that Greg should have been his replacement.

 

[miketd1]

As a recruit, there are definitely some pluses as well.

If you're good enough, there is an opportunity to play right away, esp. at QB and the skill positions.

Ash is a man of his word: we are a spread, cover-4 team -- no dabbling; he's all-in, even if it means square pegs in round holes all over the field.

The coaching staff has shown an ability to make in-game adjustments(!) roster wise and schematically.

The kids have noticeably gotten bigger and stronger. It definitely shows in the run defense. They seem to tackle much better overall too. We weren't beaten by some RB running through 100 arm tackles. Their dude was faster than our dude.

 

[NickKnight 1]

1) what "promises" could he possibly have made thus far?
I surely hope you are right, if we don't lose much ,the first two
years, we will be on our way.
2) IMHO there's no way in hell ANY current commit doesn't realize that this is going to be a rough year. None. That being said I highly doubt THIS season will have much, if any, effect on recruiting.

 

[Dpgru]

First of all no one predicted that we would beat the elite teams. The most confident and optimistic of us (I included) thought, and I still think, we could be as good as 6 and 6. This was an opening game against an elite team across the country. Tough assignment. I thought they would be more competitive and they weren't. But it is unfair to all involved to say they are devoid of talent and essentially write off the year because of this loss. I will be very disappointed if this trend continues against all elite competition. I am not saying we will win any of the games against ranked teams but I expect we will improve. It is likely we will be 2 and 4 after the first six games and then we will see how it shakes out on the back end.

 

[AshCatchEm]

No it's not unfair at all. Rutgers fans should be a little classier than throwing out "we have no talent," "we lack talent", "our receivers suck" our QBs suck or the plethora of other nasty insults hurled at our team. The board Nostrodamuses can go wet their pants in private over how "right" they are (and that's what some people seem to get off on doing on this board), but they should learn to show a little restraint and class. Do you thin anybody is going to argue that we have the talent of WU, tOSU, MIchigan State, or Michigan? No. But give it a rest, and accept it for what it is.
Sorry if I disagree with you. But that is how I feel. I think Pat Hobbs would agree with me too.

"Sorry if I disagree with you, but I don't think you should argue your point of view."

That's what I just read

 

[jason21psu]

The '13 and '14 classes had about 8 guys each leave the program within a year- close to 40% of the overall haul if you include guys like Gopre, Ports and Nelson who never even made it on to campus. That's not even counting the guys who stayed but may not be able to make it up the depth chart. That's not even breaking it down by position. Using a rough estimate, we're basically depending on 30-40% of 2 key recruiting classes for this and next season, a TOTAL of about 15-20 kids or so, with 3-4 at 1 position-RB, to help fill out the 2-deep (44 spots). If this estimate is accurate, that means we're likely going to need at least like 20-25 kids from the 15-16 classes to pan out (at least 3 kids have already left from the '15 class), as well as as 5 or so immediate contributors from the '17 class, just to have an adequate 2-deep to put on the field...yet some here continued to rave about all of our "talent and depth", or wonder why special teams may be starting to suffer...

...again there's nothing wrong with supporting/ liking Flood, I wish some posters here would understand what's being discussed and how discussing it isn't attempted character assassination. He seemed to recruit the interior lines and RB fairly well; nearly everything else has been washing out faster than the blue demonstration water in a Clorox commercial.


Joe P.

As a fan of a team that is coming out of the dark of roster limitations, special teams is by far and away that unit that was impacted the most.

Here are two PSU stats to help illustrate the point and why patience is truly a virtue, i.e. as long as Ash is recruiting well you shouldn't be so fast to give up on him:

Last year:
Avg net punt: 37yds
Avg opp starting field pos: 30.9 yd line

Saturday:
Avg net punt: 43.3yds (1TB, 2 return yards)
Avg opp starting field pos: 25.7 yd line (15 possessions)

That's 75 "hidden" yards of field position. Or one long touchdown drive.

One more point, who is going to take the job if you fire a coach after one year? Not that I'm saying it's even a remote possibility but some of your posters here act like it.

 

[DanceAppreciationTA]

I know you all think I'm crazy, but the wait for us to scare the hell out of ranked teams and be competive with others is a Holy Shite is he good QB away!

Agreed...take a look at Houston and their QB. Took down Oklahoma who hasn't had a recruiting class outside the top 25 in years...meanwhile Houston class has averaged around 55 ranking wise in those same years.

 

[lighty]

The really sad thing was that Flood had the opportunity to sell playing in the Big Ten -- something Schiano never had -- and recruiting still fell apart.

So far it appears Ash is taking advantage of selling the Big Ten. That's a good sign...