Anyone who thought Ash was going to come in and compete with this roster is crazy.

[ru75]

No it's not unfair at all. Rutgers fans should be a little classier than throwing out "we have no talent," "we lack talent", "our receivers suck" our QBs suck or the plethora of other nasty insults hurled at our team. The board Nostrodamuses can go wet their pants in private over how "right" they are (and that's what some people seem to get off on doing on this board), but they should learn to show a little restraint and class. Do you thin anybody is going to argue that we have the talent of WU, tOSU, MIchigan State, or Michigan? No. But give it a rest, and accept it for what it is.
Sorry if I disagree with you. But that is how I feel. I think Pat Hobbs would agree with me too.

I think the point is that there was a talent discrepancy with #14 Wash., but too many fans expected us to be competitive. We are not there yet. Some want to blame coaches, new or old. Whatever the reason, we are not close to being a top 25 team. We have talent, just not top talent.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

There are still players on this squad from Schiano's final class.

Flood was not a good recruiter, no doubt, but this is not a roster devoid of talent. Not to the point where we can't compete with Washington, a team that has not been a recruiting powerhouse.

spot on

the apologists are out early this year.

Talent was not the issue on Saturday, preparation and coaching were lacking

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

UW has not lit it up in recruiting people, they have not recruited significantly better than we have.

 

[willisneverrana43]

There are still players on this squad from Schiano's final class.

Flood was not a good recruiter, no doubt, but this is not a roster devoid of talent. Not to the point where we can't compete with Washington, a team that has not been a recruiting powerhouse.

That must be why RU was 26 point dogs.

 

[El Curioso Impertinente]

spot on

the apologists are out early this year.

Talent was not the issue on Saturday, preparation and coaching were lacking

+1

 

[AshCatchEm]

spot on

the apologists are out early this year.

Talent was not the issue on Saturday, preparation and coaching were lacking

Sorry but this post is ridiculous...if you don't think there was a difference in talent, especially in speed, you were blind when you watched this game. The talent gap was the most prominent thing on display so you definitely missed a lot. I'm not gonna take anyone seriously who thinks our talent is the same as Washington..what a complete joke.

Also, those players being schiano recruits means relatively little when they've been ruined by Flood for four years..they are criminally underdeveloped in technique, with conditioning only just catching up to what's acceptable.

 

[D1ESEL44]

spot on

the apologists are out early this year.

Talent was not the issue on Saturday, preparation and coaching were lacking

...so when their WRs are beating our cover corners by 2 or 3 steps, because they are simply quick and faster - that is not due to a talent issue? You don't think talent plays a role when our kick and punt coverage units can't get off blocks to get to an bottle up the return man? The roster has been depleted due to attrition; we have walk-ons playing critical positions in our 2 deep and on our ST coverage units.

 

[zwicker]

The fact of the matter is, Flood was a horrific recruiter. He was the beneficiary of Schiano's final class (which if you want to give him credit for keeping it together, fine) and was not able to bring in substantial talent after that. Luckily, Coach Ash hasn't been competing with Old Dominion for recruits this year.

At the end of the day, Laviano might be our best and only choice at QB. Would I like to see what the rest of the players look like? Absolutely. Can I understand how Laviano is able to convince every coaching staff that he is beyond replacement? No....I don't get it. But we may just not have any viable replacements. Change doesn't automatically equal better.

Irregardless, a change at quarterback on Saturday was not going to change the outcome of the game. We did not have the athletic talent to compete with Washington, and I think we'll see the same thing in a number of games this year. No fault of Coach Ash and the staff, its just the state of the roster.

We have a great class coming in next year, and more bad news....an incoming Freshman class is not going to change the trajectory of the team over night. This is going to be a process, so anyone who wants to attack the coaching staff for "stubbornness" because they think the fan base knows more than they do is delusional. This thing will turn around, but we need to give the staff the chance to do it.

Doesn't that same logic apply to James Franklin inheriting PSU's sanction recruiting classes?

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Doesn't that same logic apply to James Franklin inheriting PSU's sanction recruiting classes?

and a 5 star QB....

 

[REDRICH65]

Without the special teams breakdowns and turnovers we were competitive .would have kept it wihin the spread.

 

[El Curioso Impertinente]

Without the special teams breakdowns and turnovers we were competitive .would have kept it wihin the spread.

Ge'ez

 

[zwicker]

and a 5 star QB....

Who was not accurate, had zero mobility and no OL. How is he doing with the Jets?

Only two of the top 10 ranked QBs that year were starters before this season. Max Brown was ranked #1 and had 0 starts in 3 years. The #3 kid is sitting on the bench for Michigan.


I like how you dodged the question. Does the OP's logic apply to other teams and other coaches?

 

[zwicker]

I think the point is that there was a talent discrepancy with #14 Wash., but too many fans expected us to be competitive. We are not there yet. Some want to blame coaches, new or old. Whatever the reason, we are not close to being a top 25 team. We have talent, just not top talent.

Do you think one recruiting class will fix that problem?

 

[RUSK97]

UW has not lit it up in recruiting people, they have not recruited significantly better than we have.

Not top 20 recruiting classes, but of course they have a significantly more talented roster. Saturday was the result of more talent, better coaches and more collective experience in their current schemes.

 

[RUSK97]

So here's the question. The next real game is NM. I think they've got a good coaching staff that's on a par with RU. I think they have less talent than RU. But they will have been playing under the Davie system longer. So will talent win the day?

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

So here's the question. The next real game is NM. I think they've got a good coaching staff that's on a par with RU. I think they have less talent than RU. But they will have been playing under the Davie system longer. So will talent win the day?

It depends, can our defense keep up with their fast pace offense? They recruit for speed, their players are really fast.

 

[zwicker]

spot on

the apologists are out early this year.

Talent was not the issue on Saturday, preparation and coaching were lacking

Talent is always an issue. Why do you think Urban and Saban spend so much time recruiting?

If one school has a top recruiting class EVERY year and another school has one or two good classes, do you think they are on the same level?

 

[ru75]

Do you think one recruiting class will fix that problem?

not highly probable but it moves the needle

 

[ru75]

+1

c'mon

 

[RUSK97]

c'mon

It's true.

 

[Caliknight]

UW had way more talent than RU Saturday. At almost every position, including QB.

 

[Hondo77]

Aight, but let's not act like it is Flood's recruiting alone that is at play.

I'm not trying to get Flood off the hook here. In fact I'm glad he was fired, but I also don't want to give Ash a free pass for 3 years waiting for his guys to come through.

Facing reality is hardly giving someone a free pass.

 

[ru75]

UW had way more talent than RU Saturday. At almost every position, including QB.

it is amazing anyone would persist in denying that obvious fact.

 

[ru75]

It's true.

what's true?

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Doesn't that same logic apply to James Franklin inheriting PSU's sanction recruiting classes?

nope. how many players do you really need? all 85 schollies? the 65 they had? fewer? Franklin had some lack of depth for a time.. but he still had 65 PSU-level recruits. And then he quickly got those sanctions lifted and could reely recruit JCs to fill holes and whole new classes also.

If those sanctions ran longer.. you might have a point.

 

[BoogieKnight]

They've recruited better, but they have one top 20 recruiting class in the last 5 years. Pretty sure they will be a top 10 team after this week. They are playing above their recruiting site rankings, which is not unheard of.

I don't care what their class rankings were. The guys who made plays vs us were heavily recruited.

Browning=4-star national recruit
Ross=3-star national recruit
Victor=3-star PAC 12 offer list
Their DL and TE were all mostly 4-star players.

Factor in they are well coached and they have that PAC 12 type speed all over the roster...the same we saw from WSU and even Fresno...and it was a bad match up for us. I'm not saying we are good this year but it was a bad match up opening day.

 

[RUSK97]

what's true?

What el curioso said.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

you guys are funny

Holy $hit, Ole Miss has soooooooo much more talent than FSU

I'm not sure what game you guys were watching, but Ash and staff made alot of mistakes and our schemes, if you can discern what they were, looked like they were scratched in the dirt prior to kickoff....

 

[miketd1]

Myhat: Even God of the spread Chip Kelly couldn't win without talent. He thought he could win on scheme alone and got himself fired by cutting/trading all his playmakers.

He didn't suddenly forget how to coach after winning 10 games in each of his first 2 seasons in the NFL...

 

[Pils86]

Washington is talented and well coached and I hope they kick butt the next two weeks while we get to 2-1, this will be good for the psyche. I think our starters have some talent, save for the unknowns at LB, and should be able to compete with half our schedule if not more. Remember our best offensive player did not play

My guess would be those most vociferously bashing our talent are the same that came out with the accolades when Ash was hired. Hopefully Ash brings us to the promise land but in this game Rutgers was not prepared. How many bombs would it have taken to do something different with the DB's? Did we know they had speedy receivers? Why are our kickers giving up the outside and not forcing the return man back to the middle? If we need our qb's to run were they taught how to protect the ball? I was disappointed with the O as it did not seem to spread things out or confuse the defense, I really did not see a big difference from last year. Hopefully the players and coaches improve from game to game. Winning less than 4 games this year should not happen.

 

[ru75]

What el curioso said.

That might be a first!

 

[ru75]

you guys are funny

Holy $hit, Ole Miss has soooooooo much more talent than FSU

I'm not sure what game you guys were watching, but Ash and staff made alot of mistakes and our schemes, if you can discern what they were, looked like they were scratched in the dirt prior to kickoff....

You are in the first stage of grief!

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

I'll go out on a limb and predict RU will defeat Howard.

 

[ru75]

I'll go out on a limb and predict RU will defeat Howard.

is there a line?

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

You are in the first stage of grief!

:)

gotta say ru75, I like that we can disagree in normal way. You think I'm wrong and when you disagree with me, I hear Rebecca from Wedding Crashers saying, 'yooooou shut your mouth when you're talking to me'

lol

 

[76Scarlet]

The difficulty now is that you need at least something to sell. I think we really need to improve over the coming weeks to show potential recruits we can be competitive in the B10 and hopefully snare a few wins. Good players at least want to know that a program is on an upward trend. Hopefully Ash is a good recruiter but the best selling point will be progress of the program.

 

[bitnez]

UW relies on speed -- we don't have it. So we got exposed. Ash can't coach up speed and while perhaps it took too long he did give his guys more safety help after the 1st quarter.

I am more interested to see us against NM, Iowa, etc, who love to run the ball. That's where the improvements in S&C and scheme can really be seen. They are the things that Ash can actually improve.

As for the offense, I'm with Zap. A dynamic QB, especially in this offense, can make a huge difference. One player can elevate an entire team if it's the QB.

 

[zwicker]

nope. how many players do you really need? all 85 schollies? the 65 they had? fewer? Franklin had some lack of depth for a time.. but he still had 65 PSU-level recruits. And then he quickly got those sanctions lifted and could reely recruit JCs to fill holes and whole new classes also.

If those sanctions ran longer.. you might have a point.

Not true. PSU did not have 65 PSU level recruits. PSU had 65 recruits but many of them during sanctions were not PSU level. Do you think Kyle Flood had 85 RU level recruits? During sanctions PSU had at least 5 kids with 0 other P5 offers. They had another 5-8 who only had one other P5 offer. 85 > 65. PSU lost about 20 of their top recruits and replaced them with LOWER level recruits. When sanctions ended the transfers to OSU, ND, and so on did not transfer back to PSU. Even when PSU gets up to 85 they don't have the experience for several years. PSU is not even at 85. They also had walk on punters and kickers the last two years. JCs only get you so far. PSU has two of them.

PSU has three recruiting classes hurt by sanctions. Two of them were crushed. If you don't think that is a factor then what is YOUR excuse? Shouldn't you be competing for a national championship this year?

The reality is you have a double standard. You act like it will take time for Ash but then say JF should compete immediately even though he had the tougher job.

 

[REDRICH65]

Schiano Should have fired him after we set the record for sacks with Savage .

 

[RUSK97]

UW relies on speed -- we don't have it. So we got exposed. Ash can't coach up speed and while perhaps it took too long he did give his guys more safety help after the 1st quarter.

I am more interested to see us against NM, Iowa, etc, who love to run the ball. That's where the improvements in S&C and scheme can really be seen. They are the things that Ash can actually improve.

As for the offense, I'm with Zap. A dynamic QB, especially in this offense, can make a huge difference. One player can elevate an entire team if it's the QB.

I can't think of a single FBS team on the schedule that has less team speed than us. Ash has to figure out something else to close the gap. Change the game to suit our strengths. We're not going to outspeed the speedy and relying on potential future recruits isn't going to cut it. Every team has strengths - Ash needs to figure out fast how to exploit his team's strengths.