Anyone who thought Ash was going to come in and compete with this roster is crazy.

[Scarlet_Scourge]

It is going to take at least 3 top recruiting classes maybe 4 before we can have a chance to beat teams like Washington, Michigan State, etc.
It will take take a lot longer before we can hang with the elite, USC can't even do that yet.

So far, this recruiting class is very good and it looks like that on paper it will blow away any of Flood's classes. As long as Ash can keep them together for signing day. If we can get top 30 classes back to back for 3-4 years in a row we can beat most teams on our schedule, yes that doesn't mean OSU or Michigan and maybe not even MSU but almost everyone else. We will all be very happy with that! If Ash can't do that with top talent, and then we can legot starting looking for someone else. But, to start those calls now is stupid on a level that I didn't think was even possible.

Every single person that was honest with themselves knew this was going to be a long process to dig ourselves out of the hole that Flood put us in. The first two seasons might be ugly, for this year and the next it will be about baby steps. Maybe we can get in an upset here and there, but I am not expecting much because like some here, we saw this coming years away... like 3 years.

Stating facts and being honest and truthful is not meant to insult any of the current players who are all trying their best. I want them to do well. However, it is important to write the truth only because there are so many clueless posters who really thought we were Michigan and just needed a new coaching staff to lead our team of 4 and 5 starts to greatness. Those people are completely insane and must have been asleep during the past 4 years.

 

[rubaseball78]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
This is a fan site, thank you for the effort we trust you, go get em next week is not very interesting.
Forgive me but I had expectations of being competitive, just like a host of other mid majors do every week to ranked opponents

My expectation is to be competitive as well. Saturday we were not. From what I saw Saturday I believe defense can be competitive. Not so sure about offense. New Mexico an Iowa will be important statement games

 

[RU#1fan]

The fact of the matter is, Flood was a horrific recruiter. He was the beneficiary of Schiano's final class (which if you want to give him credit for keeping it together, fine) and was not able to bring in substantial talent after that. Luckily, Coach Ash hasn't been competing with Old Dominion for recruits this year.


Irregardless, a change at quarterback on Saturday was not going to change the outcome of the game. We did not have the athletic talent to compete with Washington, and I think we'll see the same thing in a number of games this year. No fault of Coach Ash and the staff, its just the state of the roster.
it.

No, but a change of QB on Saturday might win RU a game or two later in the season against Illinois, PSU, and Maryland . With CL our chances of winning these games are very limited.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

My expectation is to be competitive as well. Saturday we were not. From what I saw Saturday I believe defense can be competitive. Not so sure about offense. New Mexico an Iowa will be important statement games

The odds of us beating Iowa will be slim and none. Did you see their game this weekend? I do agree with New Mexico. Washington was way better than us, Howard is way worse, but New Mexico should be at our level, so if we get blown out by them then we are worse than I thought. I think that game will be close and we will have a good to chance to win it, hopefully we can because the next 3 games after that will be brutal.

 

[rubaseball78]

The odds of us beating Iowa will be slim and none. Did you see their game this weekend? I do agree with New Mexico. Washington was way better than us, Howard is way worse, but New Mexico should be at our level, so if we get blown out by them then we are worse than I thought. I think that game will be close and we will have a good to chance to win it, hopefully we can because the next 3 games after that will be brutal.

Didn't say we would beat Iowa; need to be more competitive than we were against WU.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

My expectation is to be competitive as well. Saturday we were not. From what I saw Saturday I believe defense can be competitive. Not so sure about offense. New Mexico an Iowa will be important statement games

Iowa a "statement" game? They are a much better team, in a much better program, right now. Let's just hope we make showing that day because EXPECTING anything else is expecting, and asking, way too much right now.

 

[rubaseball78]

Iowa a "statement" game? They are a much better team, in a much better program, right now. Let's just hope we make showing that day because EXPECTING anything else is expecting, and asking, way too much right now.

By statement game not necessarily meaning a win. Show more than WU and be competitive; ie game is over in 4th quarter not 1st quarter.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

By statement game not necessarily meaning a win. Show more than WU and be competitive; ie game is over in 4th quarter not 1st quarter.

Sorry but it just isn't possible to improve that much in a few weeks. They might be a top ten team by the time we play them.

 

[rubaseball78]

Sorry but it just isn't possible to improve that much in a few weeks. They might be a top ten team by the time we play them.

Still want to see us be competitive. Don't want to see game over by end of first quarter.

 

[RedSpartan]

Feels like 2001. I thought schiano said once it's built it will last forever or something along those lines

He didn't foresee the amount of Flood damage that could happen.

 

[JoeRU0304]

As a fan of a team that is coming out of the dark of roster limitations, special teams is by far and away that unit that was impacted the most.

Here are two PSU stats to help illustrate the point and why patience is truly a virtue, i.e. as long as Ash is recruiting well you shouldn't be so fast to give up on him:

Last year:
Avg net punt: 37yds
Avg opp starting field pos: 30.9 yd line

Saturday:
Avg net punt: 43.3yds (1TB, 2 return yards)
Avg opp starting field pos: 25.7 yd line (15 possessions)

That's 75 "hidden" yards of field position. Or one long touchdown drive.

One more point, who is going to take the job if you fire a coach after one year? Not that I'm saying it's even a remote possibility but some of your posters here act like it.

Excellent post and points. Who usually is in on punts/ kick coverage? Typically positions like LB, S, CB, DE/ fast DL and WR/TE/RB...and what positions became notoriously thin under Flood? WR, LB, DE and the '15 decimation of the secondary. IMO its no coincidence.


Joe P.

 

[LevaosLectures]

You just never know re: Iowa. We could have an MSU 2015 type performance.

 

[bac2therac]

The fact of the matter is, Flood was a horrific recruiter. He was the beneficiary of Schiano's final class (which if you want to give him credit for keeping it together, fine) and was not able to bring in substantial talent after that. Luckily, Coach Ash hasn't been competing with Old Dominion for recruits this year.

At the end of the day, Laviano might be our best and only choice at QB. Would I like to see what the rest of the players look like? Absolutely. Can I understand how Laviano is able to convince every coaching staff that he is beyond replacement? No....I don't get it. But we may just not have any viable replacements. Change doesn't automatically equal better.

Irregardless, a change at quarterback on Saturday was not going to change the outcome of the game. We did not have the athletic talent to compete with Washington, and I think we'll see the same thing in a number of games this year. No fault of Coach Ash and the staff, its just the state of the roster.

We have a great class coming in next year, and more bad news....an incoming Freshman class is not going to change the trajectory of the team over night. This is going to be a process, so anyone who wants to attack the coaching staff for "stubbornness" because they think the fan base knows more than they do is delusional. This thing will turn around, but we need to give the staff the chance to do it.

I disagree with you often but this is nail on the head stuff..well done

 

[koleszar]

. Their dude was faster than our dude.

I had to laugh out loud on this one.[laughing] You basically explained all three phases of the Wahington game in one short sweet sentence.
SPEED KILLS.

 

[bac2therac]

There are plenty of posters who were tricked into believing:

- every kid Flood recruited was a "hidden gem" or a "diamond in the rough"
- every kid Flood recruited was "wanted by plenty of P5 schools" despite the complete lack of, or lack of, offers most of these kids had from such programs.

...they were, for the most part, the same posters lulled into a trance with the "Dream Team '16 bullshit that was, well, NEVER happening. They wanted to believe in something that simply wasn't there, regardless of fact-based reality, which can happen with college football. We're all emotional, passionate, "fan"atics!

preach brother

 

[bac2therac]

No it's not unfair at all. Rutgers fans should be a little classier than throwing out "we have no talent," "we lack talent", "our receivers suck" our QBs suck or the plethora of other nasty insults hurled at our team. The board Nostrodamuses can go wet their pants in private over how "right" they are (and that's what some people seem to get off on doing on this board), but they should learn to show a little restraint and class. Do you thin anybody is going to argue that we have the talent of WU, tOSU, MIchigan State, or Michigan? No. But give it a rest, and accept it for what it is.
Sorry if I disagree with you. But that is how I feel. I think Pat Hobbs would agree with me too.

too bad...listen no one is bashing individual players, the only one getting heat is Laviano and yes he probably just isnt good enough. Overall the talent is not good enough to make a bowl most likely given the changes with the coaching staff and the QB issues not to mention not having a major playmaker like Caroo

who cares what Hobbs says, that is irrelevant. Ash and Hobbs for that matter know that there needs to be a talent upgrade and if you cant understand that than maybe the board isnt for you and by the way the subpar talent comes from poor Flood recruiting and attrition. Thats the bottom line you dont want to hear it but its the truth

 

[RU-05]

Iowa's 2012 class was ranked 44. RU was ranked 25.

Iowa's 2013 recruiting class was ranked 51. RU 44.

2014 Iowa 56. Ru's 58.

2015 Iowa 59. RU 54.

2016. Iowa 42, RU 78.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Iowa's 2012 class was ranked 44. RU was ranked 25.

Iowa's 2013 recruiting class was ranked 51. RU 44.

2014 Iowa 56. Ru's 58.

2015 Iowa 59. RU 54.

2016. Iowa 42, RU 78.

...and? Iowa has a HC, staff, and system in place with the right guys for those systems. They'r a damn good squad and have been for a couple years again.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

too bad...listen no one is bashing individual players, the only one getting heat is Laviano and yes he probably just isnt good enough. Overall the talent is not good enough to make a bowl most likely given the changes with the coaching staff and the QB issues not to mention not having a major playmaker like Caroo

who cares what Hobbs says, that is irrelevant. Ash and Hobbs for that matter know that there needs to be a talent upgrade and if you cant understand that than maybe the board isnt for you and by the way the subpar talent comes from poor Flood recruiting and attrition. Thats the bottom line you dont want to hear it but its the truth

Hobbs isn't stupid; I'd bet anything he knows that our roster isn't what it needs to be and that Ash told him as much.

 

[RU-05]

...and? Iowa has a HC, staff, and system in place with the right guys for those systems. They'r a damn good squad and have been for a couple years again.

I'm hearing how we have no shot due to Flood's lack of recruiting.

And I don't deny it's an issue.

But Iowa is doing pretty darn well with unimpressive recruiting classes.

If we can admit coaching from our side is a factor then I can accept this discussion a bit more.
And by that I am not calling for Ash to be removed. But let's be honest about it.

 

[JoeRU0304]

I'm hearing how we have no shot due to Flood's lack of recruiting.

And I don't deny it's an issue.

But Iowa is doing pretty darn well with unimpressive recruiting classes.

If we can admit coaching from our side is a factor then I can accept this discussion a bit more.
And by that I am not calling for Ash to be removed. But let's be honest about it.

What's Iowa's attrition rate? Is it 40%?


Joe P.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I'm hearing how we have no shot due to Flood's lack of recruiting.

And I don't deny it's an issue.

But Iowa is doing pretty darn well with unimpressive recruiting classes.

If we can admit coaching from our side is a factor then I can accept this discussion a bit more.
And by that I am not calling for Ash to be removed. But let's be honest about it.

How the F* can we be "honest" about coaching after a single game? You can't. Shit Jim Harbaugh had back-to-back losing seasons at Stanford before he looked like a genius.

I just explained how and why Iowa is NOW doing so well again. You can't expect miracles overnight when you lack quality depth AND are implementing new systems. Unrealistic. I love Ash so far but had been realistic about the coming season, and that game being possibly lopsided, since he was hired.

 

[RU-05]

What's Iowa's attrition rate? Is it 40%?


Joe P.

I dunno but on the ESPN roster 50ish guys are listed as freshman. RS and true frosh I'm sure.

About 17 Sr's.

 

[RU-05]

How the F* can we be "honest" about coaching after a single game? You can't. Shit Jim Harbaugh had back-to-back losing seasons at Stanford before he looked like a genius.

I just explained how and why Iowa is NOW doing so well again. You can't expect miracles overnight when you lack quality depth AND are implementing new systems. Unrealistic. I love Ash so far but had been realistic about the coming season, and that game being possibly lopsided, since he was hired.

Being honest as in, he's a young coach, and he's learning.

And changing systems, and thus not having guys that fit that system, is not necessarily a knock on Flood's recruiting, which by the way was pretty similar to Iowa's during that time.

 

[higgins3]

If Ash cannot get them to compete, those commits might leave.

 

[RU-05]

Just flipping through, but Rutgers has 30+ seniors. Including some highly ranked kids from the Hamilton class.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Being honest as in, he's a young coach, and he's learning.

And changing systems, and thus not having guys that fit that system, is not necessarily a knock on Flood's recruiting, which by the way was pretty similar to Iowa's during that time.

I think I just said all that. Ash needs time to get kids who fit his system. Flood's kids not only don't fit, but, aren't highly rated classes which MIGHT be able to negate the switches. Iowa's recruits FIT what they do. Ferentz knows what he needs over there!

 

[RU-05]

I think I just said all that. Ash needs time to get kids who fit his system. Flood's kids not only don't fit, but, aren't highly rated classes which MIGHT be able to negate the switches. Iowa's recruits FIT what they do.

And I've been saying it too. Why so huffy?

 

[AreYouNUTS]

And I've been saying it too. Why so huffy?

I agree with you UNTIL you compare our current situation to Iowa's. Makes no sense. Didn't mean to be "huffy" lol sorry!

 

[RU-05]

I agree with you UNTIL you compare our current situation to Iowa's. Makes no sense. Didn't mean to be "huffy" lol sorry!

i compare it to Iowa to move away from this notion that this is strictly a Flood recruiting issue.

It's part of it, it's not all of it.

I also think the systems thing is overblown. A mobile, but more important, talented QB is huge, (agree with whoever said we are a QB away) but the other positions? Not so much.

 

[G- RUnit]

My expectation is to be competitive as well. Saturday we were not. From what I saw Saturday I believe defense can be competitive. Not so sure about offense. New Mexico an Iowa will be important statement games

Exactly. Want competitive. Keep it within the point spread. Hire some assistants with experience. Special teams performance is not how you build a program.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

i compare it to Iowa to move away from this notion that this is strictly a Flood recruiting issue.

It's part of it, it's not all of it.

I also think the systems thing is overblown. A mobile, but more important, talented QB is huge, (agree with whoever said we are a QB away) but the other positions? Not so much.

You CAN'T compare it to Iowa, that's my point, regardless of recruiting classes. Ferentz has been there for a while now and knows exactly what he needs to win there. Big difference IMHO.

 

[RU-05]

You CAN'T compare it to Iowa, that's my point, regardless of recruiting classes. Ferentz has been there for a while now and knows exactly what he needs to win there. Big difference IMHO.

If we are talking strictly talent, then it's a very apt comparison.

If you are saying that coaching experience is a major factor, then yeah, not much comparison.

 

[AshCatchEm]

Exactly. Want competitive. Keep it within the point spread. Hire some assistants with experience. Special teams performance is not how you build a program.

We don't have speed for our defense and offense..how the hell do you expect speed on special teams? Are you going to magically make these flood kids run a 4.4 or 4.5 instead of a 4.8?

 

[WGLTAUD]

Iowa's 2012 class was ranked 44. RU was ranked 25.

Iowa's 2013 recruiting class was ranked 51. RU 44.

2014 Iowa 56. Ru's 58.

2015 Iowa 59. RU 54.

2016. Iowa 42, RU 78.

Class rankings are meaningless. Mohammed Sanu was a 2 star recruit, Ray Rice was a 3 star recruit....Savon Huggins was a 5 star recruit.

That is not what we are talking about. We are talking about recruiting top talent who have the size and speed to compete with top teams. Not amass a huge number of recruits out of the 3 star bucket and add them together for a fake sense of accomplishment.

There is a difference between the players Flood recruited who were 3 stars with offers from UConn, Old Dominion, and FIU and the 3 stars that Ash is recruiting with offers from Iowa and Georgia. These ratings systems first and foremost take into account whether your are willing to pay to go to their camps so that they can rate you. If you go, you get a better rating. If you don't, you're an obscure recruit. If you want to try to judge the recruiting class, go and look at each kids offers and you'll notice the difference between Schiano and Flood, and Ash and Flood. There is a huge difference.

Another thing you would be noticing is that Ash has been trimming the fat prior to the season. Players who choose to transfer after training camp begins have been advised that they will not play here. A lot of those guys didn't make the cut.

There were a lot of people on here who actually followed the moniker of "we only want players who want to be at Rutgers" which is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's in a coaches job description to recruit kids and convince them that they want to come to your school. So of course its very easy to only recruit the ones who want to play here....and usually, those are the kids who don't have any other Power 5 offers. That was a demographic that Coach Flood dominated....that's not a good thing.

 

[C0bra Kai]

Op lost me at "irregardless"...

 

[PedroPete3]

I am going to wait a few weeks to see how this team improves before writing off the season.
I saw the defense improve after the first quarter so I feel the defense will be much improved going forward.

 

[G- RUnit]

We don't have speed for our defense and offense..how the hell do you expect speed on special teams? Are you going to magically make these flood kids run a 4.4 or 4.5 instead of a 4.8?

Also very much sbout coaching and preparation. Speed is a factor in all facets of the game.

 

[Shelby65]

nuts..it's easy to commit to a vision of the future, but when signing day comes it's a lot more difficult. Sure, '17 commits aren't expecting a playoff berth right away but when winning teams come calling on recruits, all bets are off.

 

[Mr Magoo]

So is Rutgers. Our recruiting classes under Flood were low level BCS.

And you made the direct comparison in talent. Clearly UW had far more talent. Not disputable.

Exactly. One of the bigger mistakes we have made is not firing Flood years ago, when we should have.