Give him a chance. He will need 5 yrs to get this place to the middle of the pack . It's one thing to observe deficiencies and point them out for the sake of discussion. ash is a good young coach who is tireless in trying to make this work. he has made mistakes and will make more. Criticize all you want about what you don't like or like. I do it frequently. Please refrain from calling for his firing. he deserves much better.
Ash will stay
- Thread starter MADHAT1
- Start date
Well, that needs to change specifically for a co-DC. How the heck did Hobbs determine he could coach. However, I still believe it's too soon to contemplate a firing. However a 5-7 record or worse in 2018 should demand tough decisions. Again not to be s broken record but this is on HOBBS and the institution, not coach Ash.
That sounds great but try to get anyone worth a damn to coach a team by offering less than a 5-year contract and you'll find yourself with Kyle Flood or some retread. And anytime you give a coordinator a shot to be the head guy you never know if it's going to work out. Even experienced HCs aren't a slam dunk, outside of maybe Saban, Meyer and a few others, all of which would be out of our price range.
When Barry Alvarez speaks, you listen. I think he knows what he's talking about. If we don't improve in year 3, then I'd be worried. Just look at Eastern Michigan. Their coach had a combined 3 wins over his first two seasons. Made a bowl last year and beat a B1G team this year. Never would've happened if the school parted ways with him after he went 1-11 in 2015.
Look at the school we love to hate. You don't go 7-6 two years in a row at Penn State. 7-6 for them is 2-10 for us. They usually won't tolerate it. But they with Franklin and in year 3 he brought them to the Rose bowl.
Not saying he's as good as Franklin. Just pointing out that it takes at least two years change the culture and identity of the program. After that, you see the results on the field. So we'll know if Ash can improve the team next year.
Schiano built the program. Ash has to try to re-build what Flood destroyed. It's very different but we do need to see some incremental progress in terms of wins, recruiting, or even just competitiveness in the not too distant future. We appeared to be making progress but yesterday certainly set perceptions back.
One final note. I just want to say that it's honestly refreshing hear fans wanting a coach to be fired for on the field performance, not for anything off of it. Ash has done a great job in that regard. I'm upset at the loss but for the fact that there aren't any of the field distractions, I will never truly be embarrassed of this team. That is all.
The challenge is that his efforts at restocking the cupboard were hindered by the on-field performance of 2016 and so far in 2017. If we had gone 5-7 last year (which was possible if he'd have prioritized an experienced OC to shore up his coaching blind spot), last year's class would have likely finished much stronger. And a second-year OC wouldn't have meant another rebuilding/retooling year on offense this year, and likely would have avoided the debacle we experienced yesterday.
Instead, we crapped the bed last year, had a poor end to recruiting after a hot start, and enter this year 0-2 with an uninspired loss to a MAC team that outplayed/outcoached us. This year's class is going to again be in the 40-55th ranked range, which isn't going to move the needle, either. So, going into the "easier" schedule of 2018, we won't have been able to really boost the talent level to where it needed to be to get back to a bowl. We might very well go into 2019 with Ash still not having double-digit wins on his career resume after three seasons. His seat will be on fire, and we'll probably be in the market for a new coach for 2020, with a 1 year ash buy out.
The decision to hire DM (without any safety net of another experienced offense assistant) may well have torpedoed Ash's chances at long term success before they got off the ground.
the DM debacle is on Ash and that has caused a ripple effect on this seasons offense, its not just hire Kill and everything is okay. Ash set the program back for a program that has so many obstacles against it, no he added another one with a bad loss yesterday. Its going to take alot to overcome all that...not say he cannot.yet but he is going to have to dig deep right now
2001 - (2-9) with four year-end Top 25 opponents (#1 Miami, #14 Cuse, #18 VTech, #21 BC)
2002 - (1-11) with four year-end Top 25 opponents (#2 Miami, #18 VTech, #19 Pitt, #25 WVU)
2003 - (5-7) with just one year-end Top 25 opponent (#5 Miami)
2004 - (4-7) with just two year-end Top 25 opponents (#21 BC, #25 Pitt.... Miami and VTech had left the conference, FBS neophyte UConn joined)
2005 - (7-5) with just two year-end Top 25 opponents (#5 WVU, #19 Ville.... BC had left the conference, added CUSA Ville/USF/Cincy, Pasqualoni fired at Cuse and Harris fired at Pitt)
Schiano's turnaround came when the BE got significantly weaker. 2003 was a down year for the Big East conference, and in 2004 the two best teams left for the ACC.
2005 was a big turn around year for Schiano, and saw his first winning season and RU's first bowl since 1978. Lots of things helped contribute to that:
- BC left the conference
- Conference added C-USA teams Louisville, Cincinnati, and USF
- Pasqualoni was fired at Cuse after having just 1 sub-.500 season in 14 years. Greg Robinson took over and went 5 consecutive sub-.500 seasons. RU's recruiting got an immediate boost when Ray Rice/Courtney Greene/Glen Lee flipped form Cuse after Pasqualoni was fired.
- Harris was also pushed out at Pitt after 5 straight bowl seasons, which lead to Wanny's hiring and a 3-year bowl drought.
With Miami, VTech, and BC out of the conference... and Cuse/Pitt entering down stretches under new coaches... Schiano capitalized on a weakened conference to float to the top, along with WVU and Louisville. Then Louisville lost Petrino after 2006, and also went into the tank.
Unlike Schiano, Ash won't see the conference suddenly crumble around Rutgers to allow us to improve in the standings.
That was actually the plan when Ash was hired. Turn everything positive with the program and be middle of the pack by year 5. We have too many unrealistic fans , some of which don't know football, and want us to win the division .
When you have expectations , you tend to overreact at times when it looks like
those expectations won't be realized under the present leadership.
Flood received harsh criticism from the day he was hired till he proved his detractors right and even proved to be worse for the program his bashers originally thought he would be.
Now Ash is getting the same treatment by some good RU FB fans, not because he's considered in the same class as Flood, but because the improvement expected to show with Ash in charge is not showing and after a year like last year absolving Ash for the mistakes he's making isn't going to be easy to do.
The years of settling for close but not good enough is over, maybe playing close ( but loseing)against the better programs will be alright right now, but no way should a loss to a program like EMU be acceptable the way the RU O played against that team
those expectations won't be realized under the present leadership.
Flood received harsh criticism from the day he was hired till he proved his detractors right and even proved to be worse for the program his bashers originally thought he would be.
Now Ash is getting the same treatment by some good RU FB fans, not because he's considered in the same class as Flood, but because the improvement expected to show with Ash in charge is not showing and after a year like last year absolving Ash for the mistakes he's making isn't going to be easy to do.
The years of settling for close but not good enough is over, maybe playing close ( but loseing)against the better programs will be alright right now, but no way should a loss to a program like EMU be acceptable the way the RU O played against that team
I see what you're saying but it's a bit of a stretch. Yes they stayed the course with Franklin but in those first two years they poured a tsunami of money in the program and hired qualified coordinators and assistants. It was only a matter of time before the program turned around. I feel the same about Texas. Their loss to MD is insignificant to me, why you ask, because they have a dam good HC, top shelf Coordinators and they're loaded with 4 & 5 star athletes. it's only a matter of time before the turn things around!! That's not the case here, not even close and everytime we lose to a EMU it hurts our already challenged recruiting efforts. IMHO his (Ash) biggest blunder to date was hiring DM as OC.
5 losing seasons will set us back another 5 years after.
Assuming this year and next year we do not get to 5 wins Ash should be canned.
Assuming this year and next year we do not get to 5 wins Ash should be canned.
Who cares what Schiano did. It has no bearing on the current matter. Through 14 games RU's head coach has failed to beat a single P5 team, looked suspect in 2 wins against sub-par opponents, likely struck out on 2/3 coordinator hires, runs the least entertaining offense I have ever seen (and I watched that 2012 offense), suffered one of the worst losses in college football history, and still struggles with time management and 4th down management. Ash's greatest accomplishment through 14 games is slow-playing his way to a 16 point home loss to Washington.
At the end of the day, all I want is a reason to watch RU football. Some entertainment and/or hope for the future. This program has been basically unwatchable for almost 3 years now. Just tough to justify spending 4 hours on a weekend watching this.
At the end of the day, all I want is a reason to watch RU football. Some entertainment and/or hope for the future. This program has been basically unwatchable for almost 3 years now. Just tough to justify spending 4 hours on a weekend watching this.
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Who is this US you refer to?...We'll know half way through next year... anything less than 4-5 wins and we will have no other choice...I like the guy ...he seems to have a plan but he needs to see the plan start to work...is it possible coach Kill's accident on the sideline caused more than just confusion ...the claim he was having headaches all game
There is not an Ash critic here who thinks we need or should win the division during the 5 years of Ash's contract.
But we have to beat EMU.
I'm like a lot of others...in my heart I want it done quickly, but, in my mind I know it's going to take a while.
A more reasonable comparison when you are in a league like the BIG 10 is the Indiana progress under Kevin Wilson or Colorado under McIntyre ...4 or 5 years to a bowl game (Maybe 4 for Rutgers.... competitive by year 3. There are only 3 coaches in the B1G who could do it faster...Meyer, Harbaugh and Franklin due to their recruiting prowess.
Both of these coaches were getting destroyed by other teams in their conference when they took over and both had Bad Losses or near losses against lower division teams early in their tenure.
2011 Indiana 1–11 0–8 6th (Leaders)
2012 Indiana 4–8 2–6 5th (Leaders)
2013 Indiana 5–7 3–5 4th (Leaders)
2014 Indiana 4–8 1–7 7th (East)
2015 Indiana 6–7 2–6 5th (East) L Pinstripe
2016 Indiana 6–6 4–5 4th (East) *Foster Farms
2013 Colorado 4–8 1–8 6th (South)
2014 Colorado 2–10 0–9 6th (South)
2015 Colorado 4–9 1–8 6th (South)
2016 Colorado 10–4 8–1 1st (South)
A more reasonable comparison when you are in a league like the BIG 10 is the Indiana progress under Kevin Wilson or Colorado under McIntyre ...4 or 5 years to a bowl game (Maybe 4 for Rutgers.... competitive by year 3. There are only 3 coaches in the B1G who could do it faster...Meyer, Harbaugh and Franklin due to their recruiting prowess.
Both of these coaches were getting destroyed by other teams in their conference when they took over and both had Bad Losses or near losses against lower division teams early in their tenure.
2011 Indiana 1–11 0–8 6th (Leaders)
2012 Indiana 4–8 2–6 5th (Leaders)
2013 Indiana 5–7 3–5 4th (Leaders)
2014 Indiana 4–8 1–7 7th (East)
2015 Indiana 6–7 2–6 5th (East) L Pinstripe
2016 Indiana 6–6 4–5 4th (East) *Foster Farms
2013 Colorado 4–8 1–8 6th (South)
2014 Colorado 2–10 0–9 6th (South)
2015 Colorado 4–9 1–8 6th (South)
2016 Colorado 10–4 8–1 1st (South)
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