Everyone could see he was inaccurate. The question was whether he could improve: some thought yes, and some thought no. I thought that his accuracy would improve as he gained more experience and the game slowed down for him. Clearly it didn't.
Athan Kaliakmanis "Clearly Won" the Starting Job Per Greg Schiano
- Thread starter Knight Shift
- Start date
Sorry. You’re wrong again Argue Bus. You’re actually a good poster generally but when you shift into this mode you’re nuts. Any rational person not named Argue Bus wouldn’t see that as a GW fanboy post. Take the L Argue Bus, take the L.
The Round Table conversations were probably a lot more heated on the topic...lol.
Simply why did you defend GW at any time. You responded for a reason lol. You are in full argument mode. I'm in full laughing at you mode.
Worth remembering AK had an All B1G WR and RU's best WR had 470 yds and 3 TDs - no TDs after September. After Sept. other teams figured out the one trick pony of RU's passing.
People here still dont get that good WRs can make rough passes look like works of art.
Accepting that the GW era is over and thinking of past QBs in Schiano era, can we expect at least a Ryan Hart level of ball-controll offense type production out of Zorba? Which previous Schiano/early Flood era QB does his QB style most resemble?
I mean he did have a winning season and won a bowl game. But it was time to move on and now we can contend !
Yeah let's overlook all the overthrown deep balls to open WRs or high passes in or near the end zone. Plenty of opportunities all missed by Gavin not defenses figuring out RUs offense.
He also shipped the bed after going 6-2. Part of that is the coaching not playing another QB after becoming bowl eligible. So many people are so happy after losing 4 in a row to end the regular season
People forget that AK had a lot more drops than GW did, according to several analyses.
Why didn't they switch to Simon if GW was doing so bad. Simon came into the Wisconsin game when Gavin got hurt and ran a good drive that ended with a TD.
Don't waste your breath. Most of our fans hate all of our QB's. I root for whoever is out there. Most of our fans accuse the coaches of playing the wrong QB. I say the best players play. These guys will be all over AK and GS as soon as things go wrong. I'm rooting for RU to win as many games as possible. The schedule is easier. Everyone is back. The table is set.
It's okay to have critical conversations, unfortunately most don't know how to separate their emotions from those conversations and make ridiculous comments. Then get upset when told they are being illogical.
This is just silly. Vedral was a way better QB than Wimsatt. It’s not even close. Honestly - your really blowing GW’s relative running accomplishments out of context. You realize that Gavin had 90+ design rush attempts where the offense was blocking specifically for him. That’s probably a conservative estimate as it’s unlikely he scrambled 40+ times last season. He was programmed to throw the ball away rather than take off.
The other guys - Noah and AK - may not have combined for even 20 designed QB run plays. Pretty much all of their rushes were in play scramble decisions. You must understand that you cannot compare these types of rush attempts to assess true run potential - right? Don’t misinterpret - Gavin still deserves credit for executing those plays against Indiana, and the one against VTech, and he’s definitely a fast runner. I’m not saying he doesn’t/isnt - I’m just saying you cannot assume that if you ran 90 or so design plays with full blocking schemes for Noah he wouldn’t have accumulated significantly more rush yards on the ground. We ran those plays for Gavin, not because Greg thought he was a Heisman runner but because his portfolio of reliable pass plays was very limited so we needed other things to mix things up from the hand offs to Kyle.
Your TDs metric also isn’t apples to apples because most other QBs don’t have close to the number of 1-2 yard rush opportunities to punch the ball in the end zone on QB draw plays with Monongai as a decoy. The above point about limited passing became even more apparent where we had a short field.
This is a weak argument. What did this “stand out” receiver do to separate himself in previous years? Don’t you think the fact that Minny lost their best rusher to injury and had limited offensive weapons in general had at least something to do with one guy emerging as a go to receiver?
Regardless - I don’t see how anyone can put even partial blame on the receiver group for Gavin’s accuracy issues when he could not execute simple cream puff laterals to receivers in wide open space a few feet away from him.
You act like being able to complete those shorter passes is meaningless and then focus on total yardage accumulated to support your narrative. No matter how hard you try, a QB who hypothetically completes 9 of 10 consecutive short passes that go for 6ish yards each to move the chains would help us more than a QB who threw incomplete on 9 of 10 passes but made one 80 yard pass. Even though the latter example netted more total yards. Do you not see this? The second scenerio gives the ball back to the opponent multiple times while the former gets us the first down to keep drives alive. Obviously - it’s an extreme example to highlight the point.
have to agree and I couldn't stand having Vedral as him under center was a clear failure on Greg's part to have BIG level QB at the helm. Vedral was light years better than Gav, not even close
Fans look stupid defending a player on their team? I think not.
OTOH, IMO, “fans” often look like total assholes when coarsely attacking players on their team.
Having critical conversations is not attacking players...lol.
Vedral was certainly no world beater, and unfortunately for him, he played on a team where a true QB difference maker was needed to be successful. In that sense - yeah a failure I guess. A game manager was never going to be good enough on a college team where the OL was so weak that Pachecho only netted 647 yards. That says it all.
Last season was a completely different story though. We had decent blocking. A servicable game manager like Vedral could’ve been huge in my opinion. Not every team needs a guy with a bullet for an arm. Noah was very reliable in the shorts and mediums when healthy. Had a pretty broad portfolio of throws he could execute consistently. His running was probably underrated too. Not explosive but also not a statue. Decent scrambler.
That all depends on how the criticism is stated. Many times, it’s attacking.
“Wimsatt sucks” is an attacking statement. Even just criticizing players strikes me as lame behavior. As if the keyboard warrior fans doing the criticism could do any better.
I don’t get it.
Vedral played for Rutgers too. We have a fan who is basically saying his 59.4% completion rate doesn’t matter because his throws were short (which isn’t even true - Gavin and Noah had an identical average distance on throws). Isn’t that a knock to Vedral who was also a player on our team???
Most of the comments were in response to that Ashokan guy commenting about what a mistake this is and how bad “the Greek” as he put is, is going to suck. So again - I don’t get it. Is it “ok” for commentary like this to be directed towards other players except Wimsatt?
It’s not malicious towards Gavin to state the reality that he had trouble executing certain types of throws that are routine for most other QBs. It’s simply the truth. The comments that “play down” Gavin’s running are also not meant as an attack to Gavin but rather a defense against what Ashokan is saying which is clearly derogatory towards AK. There is no evidence that Gavin is an elite relative runner. He did well but we didn’t ask other QBs to run all the time. Usually you don’t do this because you risk injury. We had no choice with Gavin because he couldn’t complete the easy passes.
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Why do some Rutgers fans never trust our coaches? Schiano said Athan Kaliakmanis "Clearly Won" the Starting Job.
There will be less of the QB running the ball for sure…although he’s capable of getting first downs in a scramble situation or on the occasional QB run on an option play.
Not sure what your post has to do with my posts. Where did I say it was malicious to say GW had trouble with certain passes? And where did I say it’s okay to attack ANY players, GW, AK, or Vedral?
What Ashokan posted was what he has read online from AK’s former team’s fans. It wasn’t Ashokan attacking anybody. Maybe people here don’t like him bringing up the fact that his former team’s fans seemed to not be unhappy he left. But I mean, why? That’s how those fans feel. Maybe they are wrong to feel that way, but we won’t know that until we see how the season goes.
Would it be wrong for fans of GW’s new team to cite how the majority of our fanbase speaks about GW?
Anyway, my point is that there is NEVER anything wrong or stupid for fans to defend players on their team. Even if a player is having a horrible season, it’s still NEVER wrong or stupid for fans to value kindness over abrasiveness in their online commentary. Fan commentary is entirely meaningless so why not choose kindness?
Not saying people have to be kind, I don’t much care what people do. I’m merely pointing out that it’s not stupid to be kind to the player’s on one’s chosen team(s).
Have you not read the many threads by Ashokan? He turned a feel good story about AK at Special Olympics into a discussion of how Minny fans are happy to be rid of him…
The thread I am referring to is in the original announcement when Gavin entered the portal. Ashokan posted about how “the Greek” sucks and this is a big mistake. Indesputably - direct attacks towards AK - now a current player on our roster.
His comments here on this topic have to be taken as follow-on to all he’s been saying since the decision was made - considering how vocal he’s been. Of course your going to see challenges to the things he said here that prop GW relative to AK. Fans who have followed what he’s been saying are defending the decision made by our “current” coaches in support of our “current” QB.
That’s all I’m saying - I’m simply putting context to the negativity towards Gavin. It’s not about him but rather about spinning the things that AK will likely improve for us.
I'm still not sure how any of that is relevant to my original point which was in response to someone posting that "people who defended GW look stupid now". My point in posting what I posted was, no, they really don't look stupid at all. Because there's nothing stupid about being kind to one of our players.
Whatever Ashokan said or did doesn't change that. Him raining on people's parades is an entirely different topic.
Hindsight is 20/20. "People who defended GW" may look stupid to the poster, but it's fairer to say that events proved them wrong. It's not the same thing. All of us are wrong all the time about what we think is going to happen, but that doesn't make us stupid.
As for being "kind to one of the players," I would put it differently: I would say instead that our players (and coaches) deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Saying people who defended GW were proven wrong is too broad a statement. It all depends on how they discussed GW.
Sure, if they said "GW is absolutely going to be a great CFB QB at RU", then they were wrong. If they said it's 100% certain GW will beat out AK for the starter job next season, then they were wrong.
But if they stuck to highlighting his positives and avoided bashing him (because what's to be gained from doing so), then that's not being wrong, IMO. It's having a little class.
I don't agree that posters should feel obligated to only mention positives. It's fair to point out inadequacies. At some point, that does slide into "bashing," but up to that point it's fine IMHO to say that a player isn't doing the job the team needs and to describe his weaknesses, e.g. that he isn't an accurate passer.
I never said or suggested that anybody should feel obligated to do anything. I said that avoiding bashing our players is showing a little class.
I defended people who someone said look stupid because AK was chosen over GK.
Theres been one particular guy who has been bashing AK since before a decision was made and continued on after about what a major mistake was made. Then to a slightly lesser extent - Al’s Heisman stuff indirectly taking a shot at our staff for the decision too.
The point that you challenged was just one guy’s opinion. He thinks Schiano directly coming out and calmly explaining / confirming that AK definitely beat out Gavin in spring with accuracy mentioned as a major highlight makes the comments I mentioned above seem ridiculous. Again - it’s one person’s opinion - you might disagree but based on the history here, it does not stand out as abusively derogatory or anything like that.
What stands out as uncalled for is actually the opposite - the stuff said about AK relative to Gavin with literally zero apples to apples data. The first apples to apples data? Yup you guessed it - spring training where our coaches decision came from and was confirmed verbally by Schiano according to the report Knightshift reported. In fairness - that’s likely why the poster you responded to said what they said.
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I didn't express myself well. You said:
"But if they stuck to highlighting his positives and avoided bashing him (because what's to be gained from doing so), then that's not being wrong, IMO. It's having a little class."
Why must they stick to highlighting his positives? Is it really classless to point out a player's shortcomings?
