are they all 6'5'' ish?
Worried about freshman defending year 1. Worried about Baker now and especially in February
Bullock & Mensah
- Thread starter RutgersMO
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are they all 6'5'' ish?
Worried about freshman defending year 1. Worried about Baker now and especially in February
Again you keep assuming that Thiam will not continue to grow and develop and we don’t know what Mathis will bring as a freshmen. Highly touted SG recruit Lonnie Walker doesn’t start for Miami so it’s not a given for Mathis.
Thiam has the highest ceiling on Rutgers right now for better or worse.
We will have to agree to disagree on Thiam, Greene. That is okay. If I am correct in my projections, I know you would actually be very happy! After all, a 6'10" WF who can average 11 ppg and 5 rpg and play solid defense (as a Junior) - with both a 3-point and an occasional driving threat ... I know you would be very happy with that.
I'd love to be wrong. He is so easy to root for, tries real hard, very unselfish, and a great teammate, and so humble.
Thiam has improved from last year. I haven't seen anything to say he won't imorove any further.
Let's reserve judgement until he plays more P5 games. Again in P5 games he hasn't improved so far. Sample size is 3
How is more than doubled rebounding and 3p shooting % going from 18% to 33% in B1G games not an improvement?
Thiam already had more rebounds this year through the FDU game (60) than he did all of last season (54) - he's definitely added that element to his game, which was largely lacking last year. His defense at the end of last year was also much better than it was at the start - and he started this year slightly better than he ended last year.
Remember, too, that last year he missed time right around the start of the conference season with the flu, and really wasn't the same for a while after that. There was some speculation if it was a combination of health, the grind of his first year on campus, and need of conditioning that caused the mid-season lull for him - but he bounced back toward the end of the year with some better play. Time will tell how he responds as we enter conference season this year, but all signs seem to indicate he'll be better.
Remember, too, that last year he missed time right around the start of the conference season with the flu, and really wasn't the same for a while after that. There was some speculation if it was a combination of health, the grind of his first year on campus, and need of conditioning that caused the mid-season lull for him - but he bounced back toward the end of the year with some better play. Time will tell how he responds as we enter conference season this year, but all signs seem to indicate he'll be better.
Let’s just say that a lot of our returning pieces look better and the frosh show lots of Promise, but we don’t have enough data against better competition yet to quantify how much better we are this year over last
Remain very optimistic
Remain very optimistic
I will add....one of my concerns coming in to season 2 was the team/players could have a let down in terms of defensive effort/rebounding. If you recall it happened Year 2 for Mike Rice.
So far it seems like the effort may be a tick higher and so far the defensive metrics (adjusted for SOS) are even better. I thought the recipe for success was keeping defense constant and significantly improving offense. So far our bad offense has stayed constant while the defense has improved.
2017 231st OFF 70th DEF
2018 219th OFF 37th DEF
Sanders will most likely be back. I would put a couple dollar dogs on it. 15, and the hospital fees.
Don't be too critical of Mike Williams. He is playing through injury and it must stink to be in his position. Baker has also outplayed him, and showed to be the leader of the team.
Don't be too critical of Mike Williams. He is playing through injury and it must stink to be in his position. Baker has also outplayed him, and showed to be the leader of the team.
I need to be proven wrong, especially Saturday!
The way I see it Pikiell HAS to be disciplined and keep minutes of Baker and Sanders low. I really think minutes 31 thru 3? is where the defense and decision making really suffers.
I view Saturday as a 30 minutes *4 players =120 minutes at 1,2 and 3. This means Issa has to score at least his share of points. 70/5 players/75% of playing time= 10.5 or 10 points.
As for substiutions, Pikiell needs early to give sanders and Baker rest.
My plan would be
20-18 0,3,35
18-13 0,3,5
13-8 0,5,35
8-3 3,5,35
3-0 0,3,35
maybe steal 35 a rest near 9 minutes and use 8 media TO and try to steal a Souf minute or bring back baker early
lol @ "steal a Souf minute"
Really hoping Thiam has a good game Saturday (and continues to improve the rest of the season). Great seeing him drive when the outside shot was pressured - and finish near the rim on a few plays. Adding that to his arsenal should help keep defenders a step off of him and give more room to shoot from outside.
He can really be a walking matchup problem. He's usually the tallest guy on the court for us, but he's also the best outside shooter - if he could add a post game, he'd be very difficult to guard. Right now, though, the most important inches are the ones between his ears - he needs to continue to build offensive confidence. Another 10+ pounds in the offseason before junior year would also go a long way.
Really hoping Thiam has a good game Saturday (and continues to improve the rest of the season). Great seeing him drive when the outside shot was pressured - and finish near the rim on a few plays. Adding that to his arsenal should help keep defenders a step off of him and give more room to shoot from outside.
He can really be a walking matchup problem. He's usually the tallest guy on the court for us, but he's also the best outside shooter - if he could add a post game, he'd be very difficult to guard. Right now, though, the most important inches are the ones between his ears - he needs to continue to build offensive confidence. Another 10+ pounds in the offseason before junior year would also go a long way.
That day will come. I am thinking at points in the game RU will put Omoyuri on Rodriguez to try to lessen his attempts to the basketball. Omoyuri is bigger, and will not allow Rodriguez shot to fall so easily.
The matchups will be very fun to watch.
A tired Sanders/Baker is better than Mensah... that's the unfortunate fact.
he stole a, as in the number 1, defensive possession last night for Baker. Certainly under a minute
a tired sanders/Baker in the last 5 minutes of a close game crushes our chances of winning. Again 30*4=120. mensah is 5
Our staff doesn't care about a cc or the relationship with it. We can burn that bridge to the ground for all I care.
Agree whole 100% about the inches between his ears. As his confidence grows so will his game. He will be a key on Saturday IMHO.
It’s interesting to compare the Criticisms and concerns here with Thiam versus SHU’s reinserting a offensively limited player into their starting lineup:
“Sanogo embodies the qualities of a defensive stopper – a high-intensity, tough, lengthy player who cares more about locking down the other team’s best players than putting up points on offense. He is what this Seton Hall team needs moving forward, as defense is what ultimately wins championships.”
http://www.thesetonian.com/2017/11/29/sanogos-return-to-starting-lineup-reignites-defense/
“Sanogo embodies the qualities of a defensive stopper – a high-intensity, tough, lengthy player who cares more about locking down the other team’s best players than putting up points on offense. He is what this Seton Hall team needs moving forward, as defense is what ultimately wins championships.”
http://www.thesetonian.com/2017/11/29/sanogos-return-to-starting-lineup-reignites-defense/
True, dat.
Thiam lacks the athleticism to be a truly elite defensive player ... in my opinion. He has the length, and looks like he is developing the focus, to be a solid, to very good defensive player. But it does not look like he will have the explosive athleticsim to be truly elite.
On the other hand, he has offensive potential that a player like Sanogo (and I am not pointing out Sanogo, but just that type of player) cannot even dream about. If I had to pick a college player - maybe from RU's past, that Thiam might be able to resemble, perhaps it is Herve Lamizana ... which would be nice. Thiam may not be quite as purely athletic as Lamizana was, but has similar length. I expect Thiam to be a more consistent and better outside shooter over his entire career than was Lamizana, but is more of a true Wing Forward, so may never have the interior moves Lamizana had - Lamizana was really a Power Forward who aspired to be a Wing Forward. Also, remember, Lamizana came into college much more polished as a player than has Thiam - who still has a lot of basketball growth ahead of him.
I am not saying Thiam will be better than Lamizana - just as a general "type." That said, Lamizana played 3 years for RU (was he ineligible as a Freshman?).
Year 1 (Soph): 6.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg - 38% FG, 41% 3-point FG (44 attempts), 67% FT, 2.7 blocks/g
Year 2 (Junior): 10.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 44% FG, 37% 3-point FG (43 attempts), 65% FT, 3.0 blocks/g
Year 3 (Senior): 13.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 43% FG, 28% 3-point FG (92 attempts), 70% FT, 3.1 blocks/g
Thiam will NOT be a shot blocker - and is NOT a power forward (nor will he be), so also fewer rebounds per game. BUT ... it looks like he has a chance to be a more efficient offensive player - and a better shooter.
I wonder if Issa become more assertive when Sanders, Freeman, and Williams leave.
I think Thiam has potential to be a high level perimeter defender, but not as much an elite overall defender who can also play closer to the basket. He's definitely improved his defense, and has done a better job denying his man the ball and fighting/slipping over screens - and his overall height/length lets him frustrate passing lanes and limit outside shooters. I don't think he's going to be that "under the basket" defensive presence, which is more the role Omoruyi is trying to carve out for himself.
I can see the comparisons to Herve, with more of an outside focus than an inside one. I think Thiam will have a better shot at developing more of an inside game than Herve did developing an outside game.
Herve was NOTHING like Issa. Maybe long and unselfish, but that's about it. I'd love Issa to have some of Herve's characteristics, but NOT all of them. Herve was not dialed in on many a defensive possession.
Was a non qualifier and had to sit his freshman year. If he graduated in 4 years he could’ve stuck around and played in his 5th year on the banks but that didn’t happen.
he left after the NIT run and we went 10-19 the next year. That was the team disfunction year with Shields and Douby alledgedly not getting along. You wonder if Herve was there things would have been different. Like Issa Herve was definitely a willing passer. His assist rate (assists/FG made while on court) was 14.1 and 14.5 his last 2 years. As a comparison Sanders is a 24.8, baker is a 24.0, williams is a 8.2, freeman is a 6.8, eugene 10.3, issa is a 3.5. issa is a willing passer, but just doesn't touch the ball enough to get assists, especially vs. man.
I hope so and he should also get better and more open looks. We’ll see what happens saturday because Thiam will have to make shots because I think those 3 will be defended very effectively in the paint.
The comparison was more on body type - tall, long, not especially beefy. Lamizana was 6-10, 215... which is still 25 lbs heavier than Thiam, though.
Finally today, Pike’s view on the topic:
“I'm really excited about him,” Pikiell said. “He's gone from averaging no rebounds to doing an unbelievable job on the backboards for us. He's become a defender that I really trust. With his length, he's gotten stronger. He's 6-foot-9, and he's getting some good looks at the rim. Those two guys who we put a lot of minutes into last year – Issa and Eugene (Omoruyi) – have improved. That's a good sign they took good care of themselves in the offseason. They've added some things. You see Issa getting to the rim now. He's posting up at times and shooting threes. Those were dimensions he didn't have last year.”
https://247sports.com/college/rutge...s-as-Sold-Out-Seton-Hall-Approaches-112268965
“I'm really excited about him,” Pikiell said. “He's gone from averaging no rebounds to doing an unbelievable job on the backboards for us. He's become a defender that I really trust. With his length, he's gotten stronger. He's 6-foot-9, and he's getting some good looks at the rim. Those two guys who we put a lot of minutes into last year – Issa and Eugene (Omoruyi) – have improved. That's a good sign they took good care of themselves in the offseason. They've added some things. You see Issa getting to the rim now. He's posting up at times and shooting threes. Those were dimensions he didn't have last year.”
https://247sports.com/college/rutge...s-as-Sold-Out-Seton-Hall-Approaches-112268965
Based on your comments I would say you responded but not very well. Don’t play the semantic game with the word “we” you and everyone else on the board knew what I was saying. And by the way you never actually answered my question. Your second point again is nonsensical. Please explain - in your opinion - what “ beat” means and how it differs from outscored. And if you think other teams are allowing teams like Duke etc to win rather than Duke being the better team I don’t know what else to say cause your logic is somewhere in the twilight zone. In fact your statement of fear being powerful inducement basically says better team putting fear into lesser team, therefore better team dictating outcome. Not lesser team letting them win
Wait until we get an injury or foul trouble. We still have a long season in front of us. This will be an issue at some point. there will be a point where mensah or Bullock or dadika or eugene (at the 3) will be called on and needed.
4 perimeter players for 3 positions leaves no margin for error.
4 perimeter players for 3 positions leaves no margin for error.
Wish he could add a little weight (muscle)....think this might help him now / open a possible spot for him @ the next level- if he keeps progressing.
MO
i am thinking he should wait 2 years. Next year a lot of talent in the draft. Maybe in a few weeks he can pull Bridges aside during a timeout and get his intentions for the end of this year.
