Carino Story- We R Young?

[Knight Shift]

https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/2019/12/06/rutgers-basketball-michigan-state/4350902002/

“We had 10 dunks and I said, ‘OK dudes, come back to Earth,’” Pikiell said. “We’re not getting 10 dunks in the next game. Pitt’s going to punch you in the throat. But they’re in a social-media bubble.”
This is part of the challenge when four of your five starters are sophomores. The Scarlet Knights (6-2) got beat down at Pitt and now open Big Ten Conference play with the hardest draw possible — visiting 11th-ranked Michigan State (5-3), which will be ornery coming off a loss to Duke, Sunday at 7 p.m. (Big Ten Network).


1. Center Myles Johnson is showing glimpses of a guy “who can dominate at times” if he stays out of foul trouble.


2. Don't settle. He wants to see fewer 3-point attempts and more attacking of the paint and the rim.


3. With three new players in addition to six sophomores in his 10-man rotation, Pikiell is still figuring out player combinations. For example: How can he get more out of Texas transfer Jacob Young, the team’s fastest player and, to this point, its weakest shooter (35.7 percent)?

 

[Scarlet Shack]

We are absolutely a young team


Here is how I measure that

How many years of division 1 basketball experience do we have on this year’s roster

11 played

0 years
Mulchay

1 year- Mathis/Harper/macconnell/doucoure/Johnson

1 year
Carter (juco)

2 years
Baker/young/Kiss

3 years
Yeboah

14 years/11 players ...1.27

Now...let’s place a note on there and consider that 4 of those years are playing at lower division (three by yeboah and one by kiss)

So we are a young, inexperienced team right now

The average ?

You have 12 players ...3 in each class...18/12...1.5

1.5 is an average mark.

Next year ...we are truly an above average experienced team
12 players known (assuming no transfers out)

20/12...1.666

And 2021-2022
We are 20/9...with four more freshman to give (assuming no transfer)

If we keep this roster intact ...and develop it, we have a chaxne

Why it’s so important to grow up your own players ...


FYI ...I used this calculation a while back ...and there hasn’t been many teams we have had that was over 1.5 in the last 25 years. Part of the player retention issue

 

[Mr Magoo]

We can spin this and make all the excuses we want but Pitt started two sophs, a freshman, a junior and a grad transfer and punked us. That’s not that much of a difference.

Also, all of our starters either started last year or played significant minutes last year.

Of course Pikiell is still figuring out combinations...as is almost every other coach in the country. It’s his job to have the team ready. They weren’t. Such a non-article.

 

[kcg88]

We can spin this and make all the excuses we want but Pitt started two sophs, a freshman, a junior and a grad transfer and punked us. That’s not that much of a difference.

Also, all of our starters either started last year or played significant minutes last year.

Of course Pikiell is still figuring out combinations...as is almost every other coach in the country. It’s his job to have the team ready. They weren’t. Such a non-article.

Yeah but if they just got off social media they'd win every game.

That old man complaint bugs me. Does he think Kentucky's guys aren't on social media? Thirty years ago MTV was the problem. There's always something the older generation loves to impugn the younger generation for wasting too much time.

Part of coaching college kids is relating to them, on some level.

 

[BillyC80]

We can spin this and make all the excuses we want but Pitt started two sophs, a freshman, a junior and a grad transfer and punked us. That’s not that much of a difference.

Also, all of our starters either started last year or played significant minutes last year.

Of course Pikiell is still figuring out combinations...as is almost every other coach in the country. It’s his job to have the team ready. They weren’t. Such a non-article.

Magoo, you’re right that it’s Pike’s job to have the team ready. But two factors he really couldn’t control made a big difference — we shot extremely poorly from three (even for us, it was an off night), and we were playing on the road. The litmus test is to ask, if we were playing at home and we had just our average shooting percentage from three, would we have won? I believe the answer is yes.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Magoo, you’re right that it’s Pike’s job to have the team ready. But two factors he really couldn’t control made a big difference — we shot extremely poorly from three (even for us, it was an off night), and we were playing on the road. The litmus test is to ask, if we were playing at home and we had just our average shooting percentage from three, would we have won? I believe the answer is yes.

I agree with you. Some people will say we really don’t have talent but IMO we had more talent than this Pitt team and looked horrible. We weren’t ready to play a poor Pitt team on the road in our 9th game of the season. That’s not because we are Young if the opponent is just as young. That’s on the coach and our JV schedule.

 

[RUChoppin]

Yeah but if they just got off social media they'd win every game.

That old man complaint bugs me. Does he think Kentucky's guys aren't on social media? Thirty years ago MTV was the problem. There's always something the older generation loves to impugn the younger generation for wasting too much time.

Part of coaching college kids is relating to them, on some level.

Getting caught up in your own press clippings is more easily overcome when you have Kentucky's level of talent.

 

[kcg88]

Getting caught up in your own press clippings is more easily overcome when you have Kentucky's level of talent.

Okay. Does he think Pittsburgh's players are on social media any more or less than ours?

 

[BillyC80]

I agree with you. Some people will say we really don’t have talent but IMO we had more talent than this Pitt team and looked horrible. We weren’t ready to play a poor Pitt team on the road in our 9th game of the season. That’s not because we are Young if the opponent is just as young. That’s on the coach and our JV schedule.

I agree it was not because we are young.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Bottom line......our coach gets it.

Seeing this makes me feel better about things, not worse.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

That’s on the coach and our JV schedule.

I see a few people put up rankings and they have us ahead of Wisconsin and Northwestern. I debate this, but most generally agree.

Assumptions are being made that we’d actualy win those harder games.

I am sure the fan base would be way more upset at 13-18 with a hard OOC vs. 16-15 with an easy one.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Adding.....
6-5
4-16
10-21 could be a death knell to the program.

Ask yourself harder OOC just saw you can compete better than PiTT is worth that

 

[kcg88]

Bottom line......our coach gets it.

Seeing this makes me feel better about things, not worse.

Two people can read the same coachspeak and draw very different conclusions.

Adding.....
6-5
4-16
10-21 could be a death knell to the program.

Ask yourself harder OOC just saw you can compete better than PiTT is worth that

4-16 is a killer no matter what happens in the OOC. You think it's materially better if we go 12-19 (4-16)?

 

[Mr Magoo]

I see a few people put up rankings and they have us ahead of Wisconsin and Northwestern. I debate this, but most generally agree.

Assumptions are being made that we’d actualy win those harder games.

I am sure the fan base would be way more upset at 13-18 with a hard OOC vs. 16-15 with an easy one.

To me, the Wisconsin, NW, and Nebraska type game are the ones we probably win if we are home and probably lose on the road. Doesn’t look like much of a difference between these four teams except, of the bunch, you can always expect Wisconsin to pull a few surprises because of the way they play.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Isn’t Pitt a young team?

 

[RUChoppin]

Okay. Does he think Pittsburgh's players are on social media any more or less than ours?

Very different situation being a 6-2 team playing at home who'd already been tested by 4 high major programs (FSU, WVU, KSU, NW). They had already played teams at or above our level, whereas our games were all against much lesser competition.

People puffing you up on social because you beat FSU is a different thing than people puffing you up because you beat UMass.

 

[RUChoppin]

And again, as I say every year in every sport when people scoff at a team being "young" by pointing out when a young team does well...

"Young" doesn't mean bad. It has never meant bad. It doesn't mean younger players are less talented or less capable. What it usually means is less consistency - high highs when everything clicks, and occasional faceplants when it doesn't.

Having one or two young players allows you put more experienced players on the court on days when inexperience is being exploited or when mistakes are snowballing.... having four or five younger players limits the ability to do that.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Very different situation being a 6-2 team playing at home who'd already been tested by 4 high major programs (FSU, WVU, KSU, NW). They had already played teams at or above our level, whereas our games were all against much lesser competition.

People puffing you up on social because you beat FSU is a different thing than people puffing you up because you beat UMass.

Yeah, all of that stuff you just said must have been why they lost.

 

[RUChoppin]

Yeah, all of that stuff you just said must have been why they lost.

We lost because we stunk up the joint.

Pike's comment makes it sound like they weren't taking Pitt seriously enough in practice, and were too caught up in 10 dunks against UMass and not taking it to heart when he told them Pitt was going to punch them in the throat.

It was clear watching the game that there were plenty of times we were lost out there, and totally overwhelmed by Pitt's defense. It was a big step up in intensity and physicality from anything they'd seen so far, and they weren't prepared to handle it.

Hopefully getting their asses handed to them brings them "down to earth" again as Pike put it, and helps him in getting his message to penetrate.

It also speaks clearly to several posters' position that we need to play tougher teams earlier in the schedule to better calibrate us for a higher level of play.

 

[tjb]

According to KenPom, Rutgers ranks 239 out of 353 in experience, but 70th in minutes continuity. In other words, fairly experienced for a young team. But still young.

And...

The Scarlet Knights ... now open Big Ten Conference play with the hardest draw possible — visiting 11th-ranked Michigan State (5-3)...

Penn State: “Hold our beers"

Sat Dec 7 @ KenPom No. 2 Ohio St.
Tue Dec 10 vs KenPom No. 7 Maryland

:)

Still, I deleted the other part of Carino's point - Michigan State is likely to be smarting.

 

[Russ Wood]

Okay. Does he think Pittsburgh's players are on social media any more or less than ours?

Coach Capel talked about the social media bubble after Pittsburgh lost to Nicholls State. It's the equivalent of the sports page of the newspaper to today's players.

Social media, particularly Twitter, is just an easy target for coaches.

 

[urbanecane]

The “young team” excuse eventually loses some luster. This team is young because Eugene left for greener pastures and kiss and doucore were flops.

 

[Local Shill]

I can name another prominent Rutgers coach who has been treated as a returning hero and was very fond of the phrase, “we’re a young team.”

 

[kcg88]

His answer always seem to be that the team just needs to have more energy, or be more focused, or get off their phones, or whatever. Effort only takes you so far at this level.

 

[fluoxetine]

His answer always seem to be that the team just needs to have more energy, or be more focused, or get off their phones, or whatever. Effort only takes you so far at this level.

"The team needs to become more talented" doesn't seem like a very good answer though..

 

[playorbplayd]

Played about as bad as we could, but I'd say the main issue was that it was the first game matching up with players at or above our skill level at every position. Too easy to fall into bad habits and/or think you're able to beat your man one on one when you've only played vs guys you're able to do so against.

 

[willisneverrana43]

We lost because we stunk up the joint.

Pike's comment makes it sound like they weren't taking Pitt seriously enough in practice, and were too caught up in 10 dunks against UMass and not taking it to heart when he told them Pitt was going to punch them in the throat.

It was clear watching the game that there were plenty of times we were lost out there, and totally overwhelmed by Pitt's defense. It was a big step up in intensity and physicality from anything they'd seen so far, and they weren't prepared to handle it.

Hopefully getting their asses handed to them brings them "down to earth" again as Pike put it, and helps him in getting his message to penetrate.

It also speaks clearly to several posters' position that we need to play tougher teams earlier in the schedule to better calibrate us for a higher level of play.

That's a viewpoint. Another, more-to-the-point view is that they got beat by a better team.

 

[willisneverrana43]

"The team needs to become more talented" doesn't seem like a very good answer though..

Well, as long as he understand that and understand that it will come from better recruiting, that'd be a start.

 

[fluoxetine]

That's a viewpoint. Another, more-to-the-point view is that they got beat by a better team.

Maybe, but it's pretty clear that Pitt was far from our best performance.

 

[fluoxetine]

Well, as long as he understand that and understand that it will come from better recruiting, that'd be a start.

Sure, but he's never going to say it even if he believes its true.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Coach Capel talked about the social media bubble after Pittsburgh lost to Nicholls State. It's the equivalent of the sports page of the newspaper to today's players.

Social media, particularly Twitter, is just an easy target for coaches.

Pitt certainly has been up and down like many young teams. They followed up and upset win over ranked FSU but losing to Nichols State.

 

[kcg88]

"The team needs to become more talented" doesn't seem like a very good answer though..

Well there's that, sure. But he could also take some of the blame for the stagnant offense. Pikiell can't go out there and put the ball through the hoop... I get that. It's a bad shooting team but that flaw is exacerbated by the kinds of shots they create, or fail to create.

And I found the Steve Hayn hire (hiring his senior advisor, not bringing in someone from the outside) a tacit endorsement of the idea that the way things are being run is the optimal way. I'm not so sure that's true.

 

[playorbplayd]

His answer always seem to be that the team just needs to have more energy, or be more focused, or get off their phones, or whatever. Effort only takes you so far at this level.

This team is being built/is built like a Big East team/majority of B1G team. Pretty much the only way to do it at Rutgers considering where the program was. You get overlooked players, develop them and pray everything clicks when they're upperclassmen.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Sure, but he's never going to say it even if he believes its true.

I agree, which is why relying on his stated reasons for why the team played the way it did is not a very convincing analysis. It's coach speak.

 

[Russ Wood]

Pitt certainly has been up and down like many young teams. They followed up and upset win over ranked FSU but losing to Nichols State.

True but they have won five in a row including RU plus neutral site wins over Kansas State and Northwestern. Will be interesting to see how they do in their game at Louisville.

 

[TDIrish27]

Cannot see that going very well.

But Rutgers IS a young team and you're going to have up and down nights.

No better time to play Sparty than right now as they are in the throes of an understandable funk.

Let's see what we get.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Gene really screwed this team

He's exactly what it needs

 

[FAT MOON]

We can spin this and make all the excuses we want but Pitt started two sophs, a freshman, a junior and a grad transfer and punked us. That’s not that much of a difference.

Also, all of our starters either started last year or played significant minutes last year.

Of course Pikiell is still figuring out combinations...as is almost every other coach in the country. It’s his job to have the team ready. They weren’t. Such a non-article.

I hear you but they were at home. That matters, esp for young teams.

I'd love to play Pitt at home. I think we'd win that game 7 out of 10 times.

 

[bowlgoal]

Here's the issue. When we looked at schedule in the beginning of the year; I think most of us looked at Bonnie, Pitt and SHU and said we need to win 2-3. Since we are 0-2 and SHU looks significantly more talented; it looks like it's going to an issue winning just 1-3 which imo would salvage things.

The first thing I said after the Bonnie loss was that this point guard by committee was going to be an issue and it impacted us again at Pitt. We turned the ball over way too many times. Pitt's defense was very strong and even when they doubled, once the pass was made our guy was covered immediately. They were the most athletic team we played so far. On offense, we were just too slow and I think it's because we had too many different guys beginning each set and there were no screens being set.

I'd like to see only two kids handling the point and that's Geo or Young. And we need to set high screens so they can penetrate to the hoop and either make the basket, dish the ball or get fouled and make their FTs. Jacob Young CANNOT drive into a crowd without an opening to the hoop created by a screen. The kid is fast as hell but needs to use his speed wisely. He should get more screens and opportunities but he needs to convert.

MSU is going to be tough but here are my keys to improving:

1. Get the ball in a PG's hands and don't dribble into traps or traffic. Lackadaisical passes will get picked and turn into points for the other team

2. Set good high screens for your penetrating guard and then slash to the hoop and look for the open pass coming your way. Don't waste possessions with dumb shots.

3. Continue to dump the ball into Myles but Myles, take your time on the line. Bend, take a dribble and focus. Just getting the ball and firing it up is hurting; not helping. Someone should be helping him a lot on this. Forget the rushing method; it's not working.

4. Play the defense we played against SFA and Umass. That was not the same effort versus Pitt. They stole the ball, picked off passes and scored off turnovers. MSU and every other team are faster or just as fast.


We know what we are up against. Playing on the road is not easy but if you want win any of these Big Ten road games there's an extra layer of focus and a way to psychologically block out the noise. I don't care if we are young or old. It doesn't matter.

 

[RUChoppin]

That's a viewpoint. Another, more-to-the-point view is that they got beat by a better team.

Sure, but college basketball is full of better teams losing to worse teams that play well on that night. We didn't play well on that night, or even average on that night.