College Realignment Attractability Index

[RUTGERS95]

Objectively, the B1G is very top heavy
Mich, Buckeye, Nitts and USC are the top 4

I'd put Rutgers in the 2nd group with UCLA, Nebraska and Sconnie
It's about brand and eyeballs; top 4 bring that, as do the Bruins

Sconnie is certainly reputable, and Nebby has an illustrious history, but a lot of this has to do w/potential

4 may be a stretch IMO, but top 6 is reasonable

Which, given our subpar history and lackluster results, is amazing
Throw in some future success and I can see us cracking the top 5

my point is that aside from the Michigan, OSU, USC, PSU, who is going to provide more dollars to the bottom line? you guys want to look at on field as part of the equation but it's dollars and mkt penetration and now the increasing subscription numbers. That alone warrants a top half
in addition, RU was (with the new additions) #13 in viewership for the conference last year.

its NOT brand and eyeballs when 46% of the country is still on cable. It's mtk penetration, brand, subscription. BTN 50mm subscribers and it's not an auto added the way SEC is with ESPN. you think without NY DMA it's 50mm?

there is zero way you put RU in bottom half for value to the league. That's almost remedial
BIG revs doubled in 3yrs post addition of RU and MD and RU was the cornerstone dollars for that expansion piece. Now absent any other deals etc etc, who the fk is doubling the BIG revs if not RU and MD?

 

[PSU_Nut]

numbers don't lie and Delaney suggested as much.
1.Rutgers was looked at in the 90s as a partner to PSU
2.the BTN, in the genius of how it was created, owned, and operated is why expansion is the way it is. it's about mkts, penetration rates, subscriptions

Why did Big Ten add Nebraska, Rutgers, Maryland? Jim Delany reflects on realignment impact

Delany outlines the Big Ten’s 2009-10 expansion process and how it shook up multiple conferences and created more instability.

theathletic.com

The game has changed and the old model is quickly becoming obsolete so while the addition of Maryland/Rutgers was a huge financial boost subscription fee model outdated. In 2014 100.5 million homes had paid live tv packages, in 2024 that number has dropped to 56.6 million. So the days of we can get $1.10 per customer in state are over. The game has changed back to how many eye balls actually watch the game.

 

[PSU_Nut]

there is zero way you put RU in bottom half for value to the league. That's almost remedial
BIG revs doubled in 3yrs post addition of RU and MD and RU was the cornerstone dollars for that expansion piece. Now absent any other deals etc etc, who the fk is doubling the BIG revs if not RU and MD?

It doubled three years later do to broadcast deals and not because of BTN money. Rutgers and Maryland was not the reason the broadcast rights value tripled.

New Deals With Fox, ESPN And CBS Nearly Triple Big Ten Television Revenue

You didn't really think ESPN was going to give up its decades old relationship with the Big Ten did you? Despite cost cutting in recent months, SportsBusiness Daily is reporting that ESPN will pay an average of $190 million per year over the next six years for half of the Big [...]

www.forbes.com

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

my point is that aside from the Michigan, OSU, USC, PSU, who is going to provide more dollars to the bottom line? you guys want to look at on field as part of the equation but it's dollars and mkt penetration and now the increasing subscription numbers. That alone warrants a top half
in addition, RU was (with the new additions) #13 in viewership for the conference last year.

its NOT brand and eyeballs when 46% of the country is still on cable. It's mtk penetration, brand, subscription. BTN 50mm subscribers and it's not an auto added the way SEC is with ESPN. you think without NY DMA it's 50mm?

there is zero way you put RU in bottom half for value to the league. That's almost remedial
BIG revs doubled in 3yrs post addition of RU and MD and RU was the cornerstone dollars for that expansion piece. Now absent any other deals etc etc, who the fk is doubling the BIG revs if not RU and MD?

I agree brother, was just saying imagine if we actually put a component product on the field, things would be better

What's mind boggling to me is why a Penn State fan would be on this site, and openly mocking anything anyone says

They're the last school that should be talking shit about anyone - ever

From the 40 year child rape scandal, to the Joe Pa shrine, etc... that is the last school, or fanbase, that should be mocking anyone in regard to athletics

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

It doubled three years later do to broadcast deals and not because of BTN money. Rutgers and Maryland was not the reason the broadcast rights value tripled.

New Deals With Fox, ESPN And CBS Nearly Triple Big Ten Television Revenue

You didn't really think ESPN was going to give up its decades old relationship with the Big Ten did you? Despite cost cutting in recent months, SportsBusiness Daily is reporting that ESPN will pay an average of $190 million per year over the next six years for half of the Big [...]

www.forbes.com

Nut I'm talking to you in my last post
You come onto this board and are laughing at our assertions, which 95 backed up with data

Lest you forgot your school's head coach, D coordinator and fan bases transgressions?

It's beyond arrogant for anyone associated with Penn State to mock anyone - ever - after what you guys pulled.

You guys are the absolute last school that should be talking shit about anyone, on our board no less

That takes some serious balls

 

[RUTGERS95]

It doubled three years later do to broadcast deals and not because of BTN money. Rutgers and Maryland was not the reason the broadcast rights value tripled.

New Deals With Fox, ESPN And CBS Nearly Triple Big Ten Television Revenue

You didn't really think ESPN was going to give up its decades old relationship with the Big Ten did you? Despite cost cutting in recent months, SportsBusiness Daily is reporting that ESPN will pay an average of $190 million per year over the next six years for half of the Big [...]

www.forbes.com

you better do more research here

it would have been more if renegotiated rate on the BTN wasn't as low it was

 

[RUTGERS95]

The game has changed and the old model is quickly becoming obsolete so while the addition of Maryland/Rutgers was a huge financial boost subscription fee model outdated. In 2014 100.5 million homes had paid live tv packages, in 2024 that number has dropped to 56.6 million. So the days of we can get $1.10 per customer in state are over. The game has changed back to how many eye balls actually watch the game.

outdated? 46% of us households still hold cable and that number is higher in the BIG mkts. BIG gets a piece of every one of those boxes with any sports package or add on. Subscriptions and streaming is slowing in penetration.

c'mon, I thought you PSU guys were better at this

 

[50 yd line RR]

Our numbers are skewed due to how atrocious we were under the Ash era. I expect our numbers to continue to trend upward as Schiano continues to build up the program.

When I see these charts I think about one of our games on the ( BIG Network) we were on the same time as Iowa. Our fans all over the country couldn’t see us. I think even in Jersey some people had a tough time getting the game. We will be much improved no doubt just hope the BIG gives us the exposure.

 

[RUTGERS95]

When I see these charts I think about one of our games on the ( BIG Network) we were on the same time as Iowa. Our fans all over the country couldn’t see us. I think even in Jersey some people had a tough time getting the game. We will be much improved no doubt just hope the BIG gives us the exposure.

this is very true

 

[Eagleton96]

I don’t think it is a horrible effort for this kind of thing, but I think the rankings have one omission that skews things a lot.

They only have negative deductions for things like scandals and school leadership issues.

There needs to be deductions for things that completely remove a school from consideration for addition by one or more conferences (thereby lowering their “attractiveness”).

For example, the B1G won’t take Pittsburgh because of geography regardless of them fitting their model. They also won’t take a Deep South school like Mississippi or a school considered “lesser” in their state like NC St or Kansas St.

Since there are only a few conferences left that can be looking to add teams, being eliminated from consideration by certain conferences by things other than their listed criteria should have an impact.

If the Big Ten won’t take the second fiddle school in a state or go into the deep south, then why is Florida State in the running?

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

If the Big Ten won’t take the second fiddle school in a state or go into the deep south, then why is Florida State in the running?

B1G would take Texas A & M in a heartbeat
Likewise, they'd take UNC in a hot minute

Football wise, UCLA is the clear 2nd fiddle to USC

And if the rumors of Georgia Tech are true (not saying they are, that's 95's and others in the know fortay), there's no comparison between them and GT

Clemson is similar to FSU, as both are not the most popular teams in their respective states (South Carolina and Florida hold that distinction), but are both more national brands then their instate counterparts

 

[Eagleton96]

B1G would take Texas A & M in a heartbeat
Likewise, they'd take UNC in a hot minute

Football wise, UCLA is the clear 2nd fiddle to USC

And if the rumors of Georgia Tech are true (not saying they are, that's 95's and others in the know fortay), there's no comparison between them and GT

Clemson is similar to FSU, as both are not the most popular teams in their respective states (South Carolina and Florida hold that distinction), but are both more national brands then their instate counterparts

I'd think general prestige of the schools comes into play. Even if they went on a 20 year football run, NC State is always second fiddle to North Carolina. FSU is always second fiddle to University of Florida, etc. So I 100% get why the Big Ten wouldn't want any school that isn't the clear flagship in their state. I guess Florida is so big that being second fiddle there is still pretty good.

 

[RUTGERS95]

B1G would take Texas A & M in a heartbeat
Likewise, they'd take UNC in a hot minute

Football wise, UCLA is the clear 2nd fiddle to USC

And if the rumors of Georgia Tech are true (not saying they are, that's 95's and others in the know fortay), there's no comparison between them and GT

Clemson is similar to FSU, as both are not the most popular teams in their respective states (South Carolina and Florida hold that distinction), but are both more national brands then their instate counterparts

GT would be surprising and would mean something else fell through

FSU, UNC, ND are the big 3 and have been saying for a while, these are the primary targets

 

[bigmatt718]

I'd think general prestige of the schools comes into play. Even if they went on a 20 year football run, NC State is always second fiddle to North Carolina. FSU is always second fiddle to University of Florida, etc. So I 100% get why the Big Ten wouldn't want any school that isn't the clear flagship in their state. I guess Florida is so big that being second fiddle there is still pretty good.

If the B1G could raid the SEC for UF, you bet your sweet ass they would. That's the one SEC school (outside of perhaps Texas) that fits the B1G identity the most.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I'd think general prestige of the schools comes into play. Even if they went on a 20 year football run, NC State is always second fiddle to North Carolina. FSU is always second fiddle to University of Florida, etc. So I 100% get why the Big Ten wouldn't want any school that isn't the clear flagship in their state. I guess Florida is so big that being second fiddle there is still pretty good.

FSU isn't really second fiddle however given they get greater eyeballs nationally

again, this is about market penetration, subscriptions, national eyeballs and then all the ancilliary stuff and make zero mistake, academics are not a main driver. Oregon and Nebraska validate the back seat academics take

 

[Eagleton96]

B1G would take Texas A & M in a heartbeat
Likewise, they'd take UNC in a hot minute

Football wise, UCLA is the clear 2nd fiddle to USC

And if the rumors of Georgia Tech are true (not saying they are, that's 95's and others in the know fortay), there's no comparison between them and GT

Clemson is similar to FSU, as both are not the most popular teams in their respective states (South Carolina and Florida hold that distinction), but are both more national brands then their instate counterparts

Generally UCLA and UC Berkley are considered the flagship schools in the UC system. USC is private and, off of the football field, considered a big rung down. So, overall (not just academic rankings) UCLA I think is considered the more important school and not second fiddle.

 

[Eagleton96]

FSU isn't really second fiddle however given they get greater eyeballs nationally

again, this is about market penetration, subscriptions, national eyeballs and then all the ancilliary stuff and make zero mistake, academics are not a main driver. Oregon and Nebraska validate the back seat academics take

If they get greater eyeballs is it just because they have been highly ranked recently, which also gets them on more national broadcasts? That could flip in a heartbeat. Florida still out recruits FSU most years.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

I'd think general prestige of the schools comes into play. Even if they went on a 20 year football run, NC State is always second fiddle to North Carolina. FSU is always second fiddle to University of Florida, etc. So I 100% get why the Big Ten wouldn't want any school that isn't the clear flagship in their state. I guess Florida is so big that being second fiddle there is still pretty good.

It's really all about money and the conference's mission at this point

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

If the B1G could raid the SEC for UF, you bet your sweet ass they would. That's the one SEC school (outside of perhaps Texas) that fits the B1G identity the most.

I agree

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Generally UCLA and UC Berkley are considered the flagship schools in the UC system. USC is private and, off of the football field, considered a big rung down. So, overall (not just academic rankings) UCLA I think is considered the more important school and not second fiddle.

I agree with that, and should have specified that football wise, they would be
In all other metrics, definitely not

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

If they get greater eyeballs is it just because they have been highly ranked recently, which also gets them on more national broadcasts? That could flip in a heartbeat. Florida still out recruits FSU most years.

Without looking it up, I guarantee FSU routinely outdraws Florida (at least in the last 40 years) in ratings.

Going on the road and playing all those prime time tv games. having the "anyone, anywhere, anytime" mantra (along with the uni's, winning, traditions, Bowden, etc.) is what got the Seminoles legions of fans nationally in the 80's and 90's (including myself)

I'll give UF an edge during and right after the Tebow years, as I'm sure their ratings surpassed FSU's (also, FSU was terrible back then)

Re. recruiting, and again without looking it up, I'd venture to say over the past 40 years (or whenever they started keeping track of this), FSU has either out recruited them on a regular basis or it's been about even

Spurrier even commented recently about FSU having the edge in that

Given all the great players to come out of Tallahassee during the past 4 decades, and even a lot of the guys that didn't pan out, they were bringing in very high level recruits

Bobby was always known as a strong closer, and the Dynasty Era, and even the Lost Decade, they were recruiting at a very high level (lost decade kids didn't pan out for numerous reasons, but were highly ranked)

Again, I'll give UF the nod during the Urban years (especially 2005-2010) as Bobby stopped going on the road to recruit, and Urban was young and hungry (we lost the Pouncey twins b/c Bobby refused to come see them while Urban was persistent)

Those UF teams with Tebow, the Pouncey, Hernandez, Spikes, Rainey, percy harvin, etc. had some straight ballers

 

[thegock]

Without looking it up, I guarantee FSU routinely outdraws Florida (at least in the last 40 years) in ratings.

Going on the road and playing all those prime time tv games. having the "anyone, anywhere, anytime" mantra (along with the uni's, winning, traditions, Bowden, etc.) is what got the Seminoles legions of fans nationally in the 80's and 90's (including myself)

I'll give UF an edge during and right after the Tebow years, as I'm sure their ratings surpassed FSU's (also, FSU was terrible back then)

Re. recruiting, and again without looking it up, I'd venture to say over the past 40 years (or whenever they started keeping track of this), FSU has either out recruited them on a regular basis or it's been about even

Spurrier even commented recently about FSU having the edge in that

Given all the great players to come out of Tallahassee during the past 4 decades, and even a lot of the guys that didn't pan out, they were bringing in very high level recruits

Bobby was always known as a strong closer, and the Dynasty Era, and even the Lost Decade, they were recruiting at a very high level (lost decade kids didn't pan out for numerous reasons, but were highly ranked)

Again, I'll give UF the nod during the Urban years (especially 2005-2010) as Bobby stopped going on the road to recruit, and Urban was young and hungry (we lost the Pouncey twins b/c Bobby refused to come see them while Urban was persistent)

Those UF teams with Tebow, the Pouncey, Hernandez, Spikes, Rainey, percy harvin, etc. had some straight ballers

I love Tallahassee. Took the GMATs there around '78. The night before, the girl, who i had taken to my junior prom, made me leave the bar early. Before we left, i may have done that magician trick, where u rip off the tablecloth and the beer bottles stay upright. Overestimated my skilz a bit...

Stadium looked like an erector set, but a B1G one.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

I love Tallahassee. Took the GMATs there around '78. The night before, the girl, who i had taken to my junior prom, made me leave the bar early. Before we left, i may have done that magician trick, where u rip off the tablecloth and the beer bottles stay upright. Overestimated my skilz a bit...

Stadium looked like an erector set, but a B1G one.

It’s a great college town and city overall

Doak used to affectionately be known as the “erector set”

Eventually we got the state to pay for renovations and the Moore Center by adding classrooms to the stadium

It’s currently the largest continuous brick structure in the US and second largest in the world to the great wall of China

I’m definitely biased, but I think it’s by far the most beautiful stadium in the country, with the bricks surrounding it it looks like a castle and is very picturesque

 

[srru86]

I would need to see their actual data in the Market Potential criteria to see if they are scoring Rutgers correctly.

Do their Local Market numbers include the NYC TV market that RU is in? If so, does that mean RU gets no credit for South Jersey as “local” to them?

The Football Success numbers likely make RU look bad (and RU has no one to blame but RU for that) because several of the criteria would have RU obliterated by the Ash years and the early Schiano 2.0 years having such a big negative impact.

All in all, these rankings aren’t horrendous when I look at where other schools fall, except that I think RU’s “natural” number would be somewhat higher without the Ash nightmare having a big impact because of its recency.

Yes, NJ is about a third of the massive #1 NYC market and a little less of the #4 Philly market. If they are not taking that into account to some extent a pointless exercise.

The metric I'd really like to see is the amount of the increase in TV rights since joining a conference.

I know that's not all us, and the Big Ten was big before we joined. But not a complete coincidence that a firehose of cash has been sprayed at the Big Ten since they added schools in the massive and very affluent DC and NYC markets.

 

[bigmatt718]

Yes, NJ is about a third of the massive #1 NYC market and a little less of the #4 Philly market. If they are not taking that into account to some extent a pointless exercise.

The metric I'd really like to see is the amount of the increase in TV rights since joining a conference.

I know that's not all us, and the Big Ten was big before we joined. But not a complete coincidence that a firehose of cash has been sprayed at the Big Ten since they added schools in the massive and very affluent DC and NYC markets.

And we are T-minus 3 months and 3 days from the B1G officially adding the LA and PNW markets once July 1st hits and USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington officially become B1G members.

 

[RU#1fan]

There’s no way NW, Purdue & Illinois are ahead of us

Minnesota ahead of Oregon? Stop

Stanford ahead of FSU, and Clemson ahead of UNC?

Apparently common sense gets thrown out the window and metrics in the world have taken over

Article is total BS right there