Well when you can stop buying $15-20 Tix on SeatGeek and sit anywhere maybe they have leverage to raise them. Have even seen next year's schedule?
RU Deficit
- Thread starter pmvon
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Is Atheltics supposed to be run as for-profit/neutral loss business?
If so, then yes cut expenses.
If it's not - then accept the loss and stop complaining.
(Not you complaining - the University, the taxpayers and the media).
Problem is they want it both ways.
"Stop losing money!"
"Ok we'll cut funding to non-revenue sports and staff."
"Whoa! Dont get hasty. We need those activities for the public good. "
"Okay then stop f'king complaining about paying for them!"
"But we don't want to pay for them. Figure out another way to balance the books."
Hot take (that I've said before):
Having the highest AD deficit is a good thing and should be promoted.
Rutgers cares so much that they spend $70m for collegiate athletics - a generally regarded public good.
We're making opportunities happen.
Having the highest AD deficit is a good thing and should be promoted.
Rutgers cares so much that they spend $70m for collegiate athletics - a generally regarded public good.
We're making opportunities happen.
I'm agreeing with you more and more, but not sure about promoting the highest deficit. One reason I could never work in a University or government setting is the amount of waste that is tolerated and allowed with reckless abandon. Exceptions likely exist in some places, but they are probably few and far between.
But as to making opportunities happen, if athletics raises the national profile of a University, attracting better quality applicants and professors (this is debatable), then perhaps it is all worth it. The only people sounding the alarm on this stuff is NJ.com. Maybe RU athletics needs another scandal to distract them from the deficit? 😉
Don't disagree but is operating at a 50% loss the model and acceptable? I think that the rub for most. That and the fact that we've made no dent while going from $10 million to $60 million in league rev.Is Atheltics supposed to be run as for-profit/neutral loss business?
If so, then yes cut expenses.
If it's not - then accept the loss and stop complaining.
(Not you complaining - the University, the taxpayers and the media).
Problem is they want it both ways.
"Stop losing money!"
"Ok we'll cut funding to non-revenue sports and staff."
"Whoa! Dont get hasty. We need those activities for the public good. "
"Okay then stop f'king complaining about paying for them!"
"But we don't want to pay for them. Figure out another way to balance the books."
Not all ADs lose money but quite a few do. IMO, it's not the deficit as much as what should be an acceptable level of deficit and are the resources being used as efficiently and wisely as possible. Frankly, I don't think most ADs do.Is Atheltics supposed to be run as for-profit/neutral loss business?
If so, then yes cut expenses.
If it's not - then accept the loss and stop complaining.
(Not you complaining - the University, the taxpayers and the media).
Problem is they want it both ways.
"Stop losing money!"
"Ok we'll cut funding to non-revenue sports and staff."
"Whoa! Dont get hasty. We need those activities for the public good. "
"Okay then stop f'king complaining about paying for them!"
"But we don't want to pay for them. Figure out another way to balance the books."
Concessions are on Rutgers Dinings books. Yes, they need police from Piscataway etc, to ensure security for the thousands of fans who attend games. You go to any big football game and you’ll see that other schools do same.
Yes, it’s the cost of doing business, and nearly all our sports are loss leaders. Only men’s Bb might break even but I’m not even sure about that.
Only a minority make money and that’s because Football brings in huge profits like at Texas, Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State.
Pretty sure Wrestling has been even or close last couple of years
That 14.5M is part of the plug, a $1M increase from the previous year.
University Contributions are the other part. Fees will continue to rise appropriately.
There are two schools of thought on this:
1. Rutgers feels they need this much of a presence to safely protect what happens on gameday. All three RUPD combined (in someone’s opinion) would not be enough to do this and still provide coverage for each campus.
2. Since RUPD (really Athletics) is the agency administrator they have to deal with everything and everyone the other 6 days of week. So why not make the guys and gals making upwards $80 an hour as literally “the bad cop” in this scenario.
Not necessarily.
It’s by design here. Someone feels we need a little more than everyone else, relatively speaking, on gameday.
We absolutely need more security than everyone else, as targeted groups visit our stadium, especially when you consider world events.
AgreedIs Atheltics supposed to be run as for-profit/neutral loss business?
If so, then yes cut expenses.
If it's not - then accept the loss and stop complaining.
(Not you complaining - the University, the taxpayers and the media).
Problem is they want it both ways.
"Stop losing money!"
"Ok we'll cut funding to non-revenue sports and staff."
"Whoa! Dont get hasty. We need those activities for the public good. "
"Okay then stop f'king complaining about paying for them!"
"But we don't want to pay for them. Figure out another way to balance the books."
It’s a non profit. There is no profit expected. Most schools have achieved that. Now it’s run like a business because some believe students are employees too and should get paid. Well They were paid but people convoluted free school as a right and not comp.
Outside or top 10 or 20 programs the rest lose money.
The way the $70M is counted player scholarships are counted as expenses. The player pays $0 tuition. The tuition he did not pay is counted as an expense to the athletic expense line.
As it should. He attends the classes and uses facilities. It’s his pro rata cost.
Agreed.
And it should count as an expense.
1. This puts to bed "but they are amateurs". Players are being paid (and have always been paid) via scholarships and other benefits.
2. That makes the conversation about compensation level and if it should be increasing as revenues have been exponentially increasing. Like every other expense.
The University deficit is likely going to get a lot worse.
1) NIH shutdown. If this continues, close to $1 billion of research money are at risk.
2) If the DOE is shutdown, student loans will be impacted. The loss of even a small % of undergrads will have a major impact on university finances.
1) NIH shutdown. If this continues, close to $1 billion of research money are at risk.
2) If the DOE is shutdown, student loans will be impacted. The loss of even a small % of undergrads will have a major impact on university finances.
sorry, as usual you're completely either missing the point or purposely putting your head in the sand. Being a loss leader and eating 50% to the tune of $70 million are two completely different things and you know that. I bet 100% YOU don't manage your finances that way. Then again perhaps you're one of those people who don't care if the car depreciates 25% the day you drive it off the lot.
Once again, you’re frightened because you don’t understand the way things work and lack financial context. Athletic Department economics are different from your home economics and the fact that you would try to equate the two shows you are out of your depth, here. The Athletic Department revenue is never going to match the Athletic expenses. Too many sports lose money hand over fist. Competing in the Big Ten takes a great deal of resources and that’s why the AD will always lose money.
There will always be a difference and Rutgers will make it up. The President is on record saying so.
At others schools like Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State, Football is a Cash Cow and subsidizes the entire Athletic Department. At Rutgers, Football is a loss leader because our revenue base is too small.
Nevertheless, A 70 million dollar loss from the Rutgers Athletics Budget out of a 5.4 Billion Dollar Rutgers budget isn’t even a rounding error. So your concern is quite frankly laughable, and ultimately the loss is a nothing burger.
And Guess what, Rutgers actually improved its Overall Net Position by $217M. This Total Revenue - Total Expenses, for the University.
So you and everyone else need to chill out. Sargeant wrote an article to get clicks and he got clicks. Here’s Rutgers Financial Statements for last year.
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$70 Million is not even a rounding error on $5.4 billion? That's 1.3% of the budget.
That's also 32% of its overall net position improvement.
Keep sticking your head in the sand.
Sorry but this is clueless. 1.3% is not material, especially for the ENTIRE AD, which will ALWAYS be in the red.
The Previous President of Rutgers doesn’t care. The people that matter, understand that Competing in the Big Ten is expensive and spending lots of money is the cost of doing business in the Big Ten.
The AD lost money last year and every previous year. Big Whoop. You’d probably find similar ratios going back in history, though it is true that the deficits are increasing significantly, year to year, due at least partially to increased travel expenses and coaching salaries.
Recruiting Travel expenses are probably a significant reason. There’s no Fieldhouse, so most of our recruits come from out of state. For the ‘24 Class, 4 out of 27 recruits came from NJ, so 23 out of 27 recruits came from out of state. It’s costs money to recruit out of state in terms of travel costs. Airfare, rental cars, hotels, it all adds up. Coaching salaries are also likely driving the increase as we have to pay more to retain good coaches.
The 2024-2025 loss could be even worse, because we started paying Schiano 6.25M, and other coaches got increases too. Though this might be offset by the revenue boost we got by Washington, USC, and UCLA joining.
At some point, soon, we will have $100M deficits because we’ll be paying players. But you know what, it won’t be a big deal, so I hope we don’t have to go through the same song and dance every year.
What matters is our net position increase by $217M, but you won’t see the Star Ledger writing a story about that.
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Thank you. A cashflow statement would be more meaningful than the income statement.
Also, that means there's $30M in scholarships costs (more accounting than real expenses) and the university funds like 27 or 28M? That's ludicrous! That's like me saying you owe me $10 but I'll be a nice guy and give you a seven dollar credit.
Hey Fieldhouse Al, you dullard.-- take breath, and you will realize that spending is spiraling out of control. In 2020, there were 75 people listed under the Rutgers football coaching staff. In 2024, there are 95 people listed.
Each of the basketball teams have additional coaches/staff compared with 2020.
Baseball team- 6 additional coaches/staff compared with 2020
Lax- 5 additional coaches/staff compared with 2020
I'm hardly "frightened" . Frightened about what lol. Isn't my problem.
BTW... Football ISN'T THE loss leader. It is the reason we're in the B1G and where the money is coming from. Same for men's basketball. You think the $8.5+ MM donations went to the swimming team?
If he was running our country we'd have a 50 trillion deficit right now because well hey, you know it costs money to do everything and anything and we can always just print more. That's what the previous President said.
I'd like to see the expense break down before I consider "cutting the non revenues" as a legit part of this discussion. Like if we cut some sports and our deficit is $65 mil then this deficit story lives on.Is Atheltics supposed to be run as for-profit/neutral loss business?
If so, then yes cut expenses.
If it's not - then accept the loss and stop complaining.
(Not you complaining - the University, the taxpayers and the media).
Problem is they want it both ways.
"Stop losing money!"
"Ok we'll cut funding to non-revenue sports and staff."
"Whoa! Dont get hasty. We need those activities for the public good. "
"Okay then stop f'king complaining about paying for them!"
"But we don't want to pay for them. Figure out another way to balance the books."
And there is a twist there too in that our non revenues are forced to play in a high expense league because we wanted Football in the B1G. So in some sense their expenses are Football's expense.
Knight Shift:
Spending is not out of control when you compare our spending to that of peers. This the Big Ten, not the AAC. It’s the cost of doing business. Additional headcount was needed to effectively compete.
In 2020, we won 3 games. In 2024, we won 7 games, a 133% increase, so the extra spending is generating results. We are literally paying for success.
We’re not cutting non revenue sports due to Title IX requirements. The University is profitable as a whole, and we will always lose money on the Athletic department.
For the sake of the discussion I would still like to see the breakdown.
And as I say, we need to acknowledge the costs for the non revenue's are higher because we play in the B1G.
When you get the financials of our "peers" who are not Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and other schools that have much larger stadiums and fanbases that contribute to the $$$ into the Athletics department, share them, and then we can talk.
Spend within our means. The extra spending didn't do shit. It's a dumb game. There are more important things going on in the university that need $$$.
According to Sergeant’s article, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Michigan State outspent Rutgers.
No doubt we’ve increased spending to facilitate success.
You need to come to terms with the fact that the University as a whole is profitable and the Athletic Department will always lose money, hand over fist.
Robust athletics programs facilitate an appealing university environment.
It’s a slow news cycle, and the Star Ledger took its annual dump on the Athletic Department.
This years Deficit will likely increase due to increased coaching salaries and next year it will increase because we’re paying players.
But in the end, the investments are worth it.
Per the Rutgers spokesperson:
“As a member of the Big Ten, Rutgers is among the nation’s top public research universities in academics and intercollegiate athletics. Our competitive athletics programs continue to enhance Rutgers’ prominence, raise the university’s global profile, and build community among our current, future, and former students and their families,” university spokesperson Dory Devlin said in a statement to NJ Advance Media. “Our increased investments in Athletics reflect both the university’s commitment to remaining competitive in one of the best athletic conferences in America and the rising costs of travel, salaries, and benefits.
“Rutgers remains committed to, and will continue to expect, responsible investments in Scarlet Knights athletics.”
Rutgers’ athletics deficit topped $70M again in 2023-24. But it still wasn’t a record.
Rutgers spent an all-time record to support its athletics teams during the 2023-24 school year.
re-looking at that article and revenue...
where are concessions and beer sales? Naming rights for SHI and JMA? In stadium/arena advertising?
where are concessions and beer sales? Naming rights for SHI and JMA? In stadium/arena advertising?
The "Baby Bust" generation is just starting and it will have a major negative economic impact on schools and colleges through out the country for the next 12 years or more.
I realize this is a Rutgers Board (NJ) but some of the issues I am addressing in Pa will impact every state.
Pittsburgh Public Schools have facilities in place to educate 40,000 students but only have 28,000 students to educate.
School Board has plans in place to close school buildings in neighborhoods and getting a lot of criticism from the public because they don't want their neighborhood school to close but economics demand it.
Penn State University operates 19 Branch Campuses throughout the state. Many are facing declining student body and losing money.
The University has tried to address the problem but the money loss continues. The University is studying this problem and many professors and communities are concerned that some campuses may have to close (to be determined).
Pennsylvania State University system has already consolidated 3 Western Pa Campuses into One (Penn West) and 3 Eastern Pa Campuses into one (Penn EAST).
The College Football System is Broken (Economics) as it now exists for MOST Programs and will only get worse if it is not corrected.
So you have schools facing major negative financial problems resulting in school closures or cutting programs and out of of control athletic departments with million dollar HC's and coaching staffs and Taj Mahal sports facilities that some alums advocat for even more.
Net result schools that spends the most gets a "National Championship" that they will have to do again next year (BIG Deal).
By the way 22.1 million viewers watched the NC Game (ND vs Ohio State) which was 12% drop from the 25 million who watched the previous NC game.
Its no wonder you have journalists and newspapers writing and printing negative articles addressing these issues especially if the state universities want to go to the state taxpayers (politicians) for funding increases when now only 62% of students want to go to college.
Many more of these articles will be written in almost every state when the university is requesting more funding for education.
I'm sure there will be many more discussions regarding this topic going forward because it will get worse before it gets better.
And the Band Played on.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
I realize this is a Rutgers Board (NJ) but some of the issues I am addressing in Pa will impact every state.
Pittsburgh Public Schools have facilities in place to educate 40,000 students but only have 28,000 students to educate.
School Board has plans in place to close school buildings in neighborhoods and getting a lot of criticism from the public because they don't want their neighborhood school to close but economics demand it.
Penn State University operates 19 Branch Campuses throughout the state. Many are facing declining student body and losing money.
The University has tried to address the problem but the money loss continues. The University is studying this problem and many professors and communities are concerned that some campuses may have to close (to be determined).
Pennsylvania State University system has already consolidated 3 Western Pa Campuses into One (Penn West) and 3 Eastern Pa Campuses into one (Penn EAST).
The College Football System is Broken (Economics) as it now exists for MOST Programs and will only get worse if it is not corrected.
So you have schools facing major negative financial problems resulting in school closures or cutting programs and out of of control athletic departments with million dollar HC's and coaching staffs and Taj Mahal sports facilities that some alums advocat for even more.
Net result schools that spends the most gets a "National Championship" that they will have to do again next year (BIG Deal).
By the way 22.1 million viewers watched the NC Game (ND vs Ohio State) which was 12% drop from the 25 million who watched the previous NC game.
Its no wonder you have journalists and newspapers writing and printing negative articles addressing these issues especially if the state universities want to go to the state taxpayers (politicians) for funding increases when now only 62% of students want to go to college.
Many more of these articles will be written in almost every state when the university is requesting more funding for education.
I'm sure there will be many more discussions regarding this topic going forward because it will get worse before it gets better.
And the Band Played on.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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The sheriff's officers act as nothing more than very highly paid crossing guards. Stop the nonsense, Al. It's absurd to have that many different agencies at football games. It's one public agency scratching the back of another public agency.
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