Not sure about amount.
Am sure that whatever we pay, it is too much.
NIL killed college hoops its now professional hoops
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
Am sure that whatever we pay, it is too much.
That’s why I mentioned partially incentive-based compensation. Not necessarily for individual performance, but more for team performance (total wins, winning your conference, getting invited to the NCAA tournament, etc.). That way a “dud” could miss out on say, one-third of their potential compensation.
Frankly I wish we still had Simpson. I think letting him go was a mistake
They go hand in hand. More NIL money at a different school gets kids into the portal.
All of it needs to be regulated and, unfortunately, that ship has long sailed.
Ace/Dylan are getting paid & have been told that no matter how poorly RU does this year it won't affect their draft value, they are still top 5.
What is their incentive to play harder?
I understand. It seems to me, though, that team-based performance incentives are pretty unimportant in professional sports -- even where they exist, they are minor parts of the compensation package. I wonder if college sports would be any different.
But if a player had to sit out a year, then they wouldn't be offered NIL.
HC Pike isn't being fired no matter how poorly RU does this year.
He has a huge contract and buyout.
What is his incentive to coach harder or build a better team?
Did you always have such a low opinion of Dylan’s work ethic?
What’s HC Pikes incentive to turn things around?
To win next year?
What is his buyout? How much is he guaranteed regardless of results?
His ability to get another job
You keep comparing coaches to players yet head coaches are a rarity..only 1 head coach for what 13-14 players
You keep comparing coaches to players yet head coaches are a rarity..only 1 head coach for what 13-14 players
They are on 1 year deals.
Their incentive is to get another pay contract. Same as coaches.
No need for a buyout since it's 1 year.
HC Pike's buyout is $13m?
If players don't have incentive to win with a $1m payout, HC Pike is 13x less likely to have incentive since he is guaranteed much more money.
What's it matter 13 players to 1 coach?
You (and others) are saying individual players have no incentive to win because they are being paid regardless of win or losses.
Well others are guaranteed more money over longer time periods.
Using the same logic - then other contracted individuals have less incentive to win.
I’m hearing them made out to be analogs of each other in these arguments.
Coaches…who are working for years In their career field where there are relatively few job openings, naturally would seek a level of stability and assurance in order to
Take these jobs in the first place.
SAs? Players? Are not necessarily professionals, many of them, unfortunately are valuable temps/contractors. They are performing this job for a few short years and then likely moving on to another profession to be replaced by someone else. Sure they are super talented and have worked hard and are a key element here.
BUT to compare every aspect of the franchise leaders benefits to the temps should be done so with the understanding that yea…that’s they way it works with years of experience.
Mag basically sat out most of the year and was rewarded with a payday at byu
Don't you think he would have gotten an even bigger payday if he hadn't sat out? I don't think it's rational for a player to dog it because that hurts his future value. My guess is that what is happening is that it is hard to build a team concept when the players know they or their teammates may not be with the team next year. So while there is a problem with free transferabiility and compensation, I think it is a different problem than the one you identity.
Huh? Each player on the winning team of the in-season NBA Cup receives a $500,000 bonus.
The NBA champions split $12 million among their 15 players. In total the NBA Playoff teams are vying for a pool of $34 million in bonus incentives.
Including the play-in tournament, 20 out of 30 or 67% of NBA teams are included in the postseason.
In College, where making the NCAA tournament is paramount, only 68 of 352 or 19% of D1 teams get to the big dance. So team incentives should be more important in college than in the pros.
I’m sure Martini will give plenty back . . . to Princeton
You're right . . . but note that this compensation doesn't come from the contract that the player signed with the team. It may not be that easy to build performance-based incentives into the contract. That's especially true when there is a cap on compensation, as there is in the NBA and will be in college athletics: it's not easy for a school to design the package to be good enough to attract players without running the risk of exceeding the cap if the team succeeds.
He dropped down to a much lower level and is still shooting just 37% from the field. He is not a player who is going to help a high major team.
This season just needs to end as quickly and quietly as possible.
A few hours ago, I clarified this in a post.
Look, you sound like a good lawyer. Why not come up with a way to get these things done? Sure, it’ll be difficult but on the flip side it’s easy to come up with reasons why they can’t be done.
HC Ash was a horrific head coach, got himseld fired by Rutgers was rewarded with a paycheck to do nothing.
Coaches have as much (or as little) incentive to succeed as anyone else.
I think once universities can pay athletes i think you will see long term contracts.
Think 4 years for $4,000,000
Year 1 player gets $200,000 and a foregivable loan for $800,000
Year 2 players gets $400,000 and a foregivable loan for $600,000
Year 3 player gets $600,000 and a foregiveable loan for $400000
Year 4 player gets $1,000,000
After completing 4 years forgiveable loan is forgiven. If player leaves loans are due
Think 4 years for $4,000,000
Year 1 player gets $200,000 and a foregivable loan for $800,000
Year 2 players gets $400,000 and a foregivable loan for $600,000
Year 3 player gets $600,000 and a foregiveable loan for $400000
Year 4 player gets $1,000,000
After completing 4 years forgiveable loan is forgiven. If player leaves loans are due
Thanks for the compliment! As I've explained several times, there are only two solutions: congressional action to provide an anti-trust exemption of some kind for college sports; or unionization of college athletes followed by a collective bargaining agreement between the union and the schools. Neither is going to happen without some kind of consensus on what should be done. Unless either happens, we're in a world in which schools can poach players from others so long as the poachers stay within the cap.
People complaining college hoops has been killed and wish to return to the old days have a convenient option. Adopt Princeton as your team.
- Decent squad. Beat Rutgers last two seasons and made sweet 16 in 2023.
- Little NIL, few transfers.
- Most conference away games are day trips from New Jersey.
For disgruntled Rutgers fans who prioritize high quality basketball at a reasonable price, three G league teams are located a few miles across the New Jersey border - Delaware Blue Coasts, Westchester Knicks, and Long Island Nets.
- Decent squad. Beat Rutgers last two seasons and made sweet 16 in 2023.
- Little NIL, few transfers.
- Most conference away games are day trips from New Jersey.
For disgruntled Rutgers fans who prioritize high quality basketball at a reasonable price, three G league teams are located a few miles across the New Jersey border - Delaware Blue Coasts, Westchester Knicks, and Long Island Nets.
Here is the real question
If you didn’t follow recruting and know about NIL….what is your opinion of the product you see on rhe court and on TV
I think it’s pretty good …but that’s my opionon
Think , as a perspective , you need to go back and watch several games from first 30 years ago, then 20, then 10 and now
You will see
-players getting progressively bigger and faster and making the court that much snaller and tight
-guys who shoot better now than they did back then ….and turn the ball over a lot less, especially given the next point
-the level of man to man defense is much bwttwr now
Sure modern scouting made sone of this easier (technology) but the level of play is up and more distributed than ever
As an example …27 years ago. A Rutgers team upset a 20-4 Syracuse team in the RAC in late February ….what do you think the ranking of that team was ???
It was 20
How many teams will be 20-4 or better after 24 games now ?? That’s a top 5 record
More parity and spread of players now than ever , with more qualified players
I’m not saying todays game does not have issues…it has PLENTY
But maybe a lot of what we have on this forum is biased to the general popluace because this is a recruting site and it follows recruting ??? Including the NIL bias????
Different perspectives…..
If you didn’t follow recruting and know about NIL….what is your opinion of the product you see on rhe court and on TV
I think it’s pretty good …but that’s my opionon
Think , as a perspective , you need to go back and watch several games from first 30 years ago, then 20, then 10 and now
You will see
-players getting progressively bigger and faster and making the court that much snaller and tight
-guys who shoot better now than they did back then ….and turn the ball over a lot less, especially given the next point
-the level of man to man defense is much bwttwr now
Sure modern scouting made sone of this easier (technology) but the level of play is up and more distributed than ever
As an example …27 years ago. A Rutgers team upset a 20-4 Syracuse team in the RAC in late February ….what do you think the ranking of that team was ???
It was 20
How many teams will be 20-4 or better after 24 games now ?? That’s a top 5 record
More parity and spread of players now than ever , with more qualified players
I’m not saying todays game does not have issues…it has PLENTY
But maybe a lot of what we have on this forum is biased to the general popluace because this is a recruting site and it follows recruting ??? Including the NIL bias????
Different perspectives…..
Sure, but you said schools can offer any contract they want, as long as there’s no collusion. That means 2 year deals with incentives based on team wins and making the tournament are doable. That is a fact. The rest is just our opinions on whether any schools would try those things.
You can apply this to life in general,
A heart surgeon is paid the same whether you live or die on the operating table.
Hopefully you choose a surgeon with pride and integrity.
There were men from another era who didn’t miss a days work for 20 years… something other than money drives people to care
Why do i keep hearing schools have nothing to do with NIL, and the university itself can’t be involved in NIL?
Schools can try them legally, but I doubt their practicality. Take two schools. One says to its recruits, "we'll pay you as much as we can fit into the cap." The other says to its recruits,, "we'll pay you less than that, but you'll get all that we can fit into the cap if we make the tournament." If you were a recruit, which school would you pick?
As for two-year contracts without incentives, some players will pick them for security, but . . we're talking about 18-year olds who (mostly) don't have family responsibilities. How many of them will prefer security to the chance of hitting it big after the first year? I wouldn't bet on a lot wanting the two-year contract. (And, to make matters worse, notice that giving them security means the school must guarantee the contract as NBA teams often do. As an AD, do you want to commit yourself to two years salary to a player who may turn out to be a disaster? Wouldn't you rather give out one-year contracts?)
In other words, what is legal for a school to do may not be practical for it to do. The steps you suggest may be sensible, but they're not steps that a school can accomplish on its own because the school will be undercut by others. That's why Congressional action or a collective bargaining agreement are needed to make the system work rationally.
That's true right now, but it is going to change when the lawsuit settlement takes hold. At that point, schools will be directly compensating players, and NIL deals will not be valid if they are simply recruiting inducements.
Coleman Hawkins stayed four years at Illinois and got his degree. It was time for him to move on. He was a nice role player on an Elite Eight team. Kansas State was crazy to pay him “star” money. Illinois was not going to give him anywhere close to what Kansas State did, so more power to him.
For me it’s the no sit out transfers much more than the payments themselves. There need to be rules to ensure some more roster continuity.
Nah, nobody flops like a fish on the floor more efficiently than JWill. We got a bargain imo
I gave a lot of likes out in this thread. It is killing all college sports in my view. I lowered my level of interest and emotional investment on Day 1 of the wild west of NIL and Transfer Portal. The idea that everyone was doing this previously and thus we are just bringing it out in the open rang hollow with me. I guess we should not throw shade on SMU getting the death penalty but rather we view their program as forward looking. There is certainly not much more transparency now then when bags were going under the table rather than over them. I realize that trends on coaching salaries and movement fueled the narrative ,and that needs to change as well, but I don't think it is an apples to apples comparison.
I still follow but post a lot less and it is working for me. No more trouble getting to sleep after tough losses and watching games is no longer must see TV. I am too old to wait for the misplaced emphasis and resulting fever related to college athletics to break naturally. Relying on congress makes my stomach queasy. Yes I am an old guy so you can dismiss my view, but if having fans attend games and financially support teams is a differentiator for success (beyond the big time TV revenue for being in the right conference) losing the older fans is a big issue for schools like RU because I would say the pipeline of younger fans who will attend live college sporting events or directly pay players (rather than contribute to a facility that will benefit a generation of college athletes) is much narrower.
I still follow but post a lot less and it is working for me. No more trouble getting to sleep after tough losses and watching games is no longer must see TV. I am too old to wait for the misplaced emphasis and resulting fever related to college athletics to break naturally. Relying on congress makes my stomach queasy. Yes I am an old guy so you can dismiss my view, but if having fans attend games and financially support teams is a differentiator for success (beyond the big time TV revenue for being in the right conference) losing the older fans is a big issue for schools like RU because I would say the pipeline of younger fans who will attend live college sporting events or directly pay players (rather than contribute to a facility that will benefit a generation of college athletes) is much narrower.
Not sure where it all goes but I will always like college over pro. The connection to the alma mater, student sections, the band, cheerleaders, rooting for conferences, more excitement because less predictability than pros. Probably will follow recruiting less, just wait for season to begin and see who shows up.
I am fine with players getting paid but the NCAA should mandate that a Roth IRA needs to be paid in full and maybe even some portion of the money is paid out as an annuity over time, so it is not blown immediately.
I am fine with players getting paid but the NCAA should mandate that a Roth IRA needs to be paid in full and maybe even some portion of the money is paid out as an annuity over time, so it is not blown immediately.
