OT: Coaches restructuring deals

[kupuna133]

Honest question, did you watch FSU this year?
They were awful - downright terrible in damn near every aspect

The schedule should have resulted in nothing less than 8 wins
But, for reasons we're all still trying to figure out, nothing worked
In fact, everything didn't work, sans Fitz

He's gone if the team doesn't show marked improvement
Hopefully, that translates into wins
But to expect a 6 or 8 game turnaround is quite a big ask

Like I said, most rational Noles will take 6-6, no blowouts, split with Miami and UF, play competively w/Bama, and win the bowl game w/recruiting taking off and a legit change for playoffs in 2026

They don't want to fire Mike
We like him, believe in him (although some are wavering) and don't want to pay 64 million
Hence, the 2 years to fix it so he can prove he's the guy, and the buyout gets signifgantly less at that time

We won't hesitate to make a move if it needs to happen
But the preference is to let this play out, Mike to step up, and get back rolling ASAP

I did watch them. I always liked the Noles especially under Bowden. The issues weren’t talent related. The issues were awful coaching and roster management. Keeping status quo won’t really change those things no matter how the contract gets reworked. This is nothing more than kicking the can down the road. We will be having this same conversation next year or sooner if there isnt a huge delta in wins.

Again I like debating with you because you keep an even keel and can see the positive even when your team shat the bed this year. College football needs a strong FSU especially if they are stuck in the ACC. But I think the fanbase especially the big boosters are doing more than wavering at this point. In the past after a season like they just produced. “ Downright terrible in all aspects”- your words. They would have cut bait in the past.

 

[vkj91]

It is suppose to be revenue sharing, so the women’s teams should get what they bring in as far as revenue, which equals about $20 per year the other $20 MILLION gets split between Men’s basketball & football

While you aren’t wrong good luck with that. Schools don’t have the stomach for the equal pay protests, marches, sit ins and whatever other BS they can think of. And I say that as a parent of female athletes

 

[JayDogSmooth]

I did watch them. I always liked the Noles especially under Bowden. The issues weren’t talent related. The issues were awful coaching and roster management. Keeping status quo won’t really change those things no matter how the contract gets reworked. This is nothing more than kicking the can down the road. We will be having this same conversation next year or sooner if there isnt a huge delta in wins.

Again I like debating with you because you keep an even keel and can see the positive even when your team shat the bed this year. College football needs a strong FSU especially if they are stuck in the ACC. But I think the fanbase especially the big boosters are doing more than wavering at this point. In the past after a season like they just produced. “ Downright terrible in all aspects”- your words. They would have cut bait in the past.

It was a combonination of bad talent and bad coaching - not saying the talent was bad enough to only win two games, especially considering the lofty preseason rankings, but it was not top-notch like it was initially evaluated as

There is a segment of the fan base that is definitely very down on Mike, and deservedly so after only winning two games

There is the other segment who is cautiously optimistic, as you don’t win 19 in a row by accident

Everyone wants to know though is exactly what the hell happened, and if anyone knows, they are keeping it extremely close to the vest

After the Jimbo fiasco, ESPN put out an article by David Hale, that outlined everything that happened, and it was actually pretty accurate

I’d imagine things will start to trickle out sooner rather than later in regard to this year, as it’s simply an excusable to go from 13 winds to two winds, all in matter of 12 months

 

[RUTGERS95]

20.5M is the cap for all sports but I’m not sure if there is a minimum based on a school’s revenue or whatever metric.

The estimates were 15-17M of it for football but I’ve seen those numbers come down to 12-14M now for football.

I don’t know how the rest would get distributed if you’re a school that intends to spend to the full cap.

Tenn was adding a talent fee to their tickets to raise money. Clemson added an athletics fee to their tuition. Don’t know if other schools are doing similar but I’m sure some will. This restructuring of deals looks like another potential place to find some money for some schools.

every penny should go to football

one thing is for certain, not a single girls team should get a penny

 

[RUTGERS95]

Again, we never said we wanted to leave
Wanting to leave, and leaving us with no option, are two separate things

Hell, if we wanted to leave (and, in all honesty, if we were actually smart and didn't rest on our laurels and let incomponent people in charge make decisions with no consequences), we'd have been looking to leave well before we started making noise

The fact that it took this long to start making noise, after the $$ differential is what it is and will be moving forward, is criminal

FSU is going to be fine, none of this is over

 

[JayDogSmooth]

FSU is going to be fine, none of this is over

Agree, there’s a couple balls in the air and we’ll find out more by February 1

 

[Caliknight]

In fairness, Schiano didn't go 2-10 last year
Mike wouldn't doing this if they were 10-2

That’s irrelevant. LSU coach did it and he has a better record.

It’s about making your team better. This has an immediate direct impact.

 

[vkj91]

Agree, there’s a couple balls in the air and we’ll find out more by February 1

If we had a 100 dollars for every time you told us a day we’d know by we could FSU’s buyout. 😎

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

If we had a 100 dollars for every time you told us a day we’d know by we could FSU’s buyout. 😎

Lol if that happened I'd be able to pay the actual buyout

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

That’s irrelevant. LSU coach did it and he has a better record.

It’s about making your team better. This has an immediate direct impact.

Point is it's all underachieving coaches
Regardless, I don't see it as a negative and will be interesting to see if others follow suit

I'd love Greg to give back 2 million - would immensely help our NIL situation

 

[NickRU714]

If Schiano wanted to do this, wouldnt he have done it a year ago when he signed his big extension?

It's not like NIL was an unknown thing last year.

 

[RUTGERS95]

the extension was stupid and took funds away from the program

 

[WhiteBus]

the extension was stupid and took funds away from the program

What?? Took funds away??? So they get rid of Schiano at his original contract length and the next HC is going to coach for free?

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

What?? Took funds away??? So they get rid of Schiano at his original contract length and the next HC is going to coach for free?

Greg was in no danger of getting poached
Previously, during GS 1.0, there were multiple suitors (Miami and Michigan) who were after him
Hence, the extension (and well deserved at the time) was granted

This time, Pat extended him, but 95 and I, amongst others, were wondering why he did it, as it didn't make any sense at the time
GS wasn't leaving; rather, he was in the midst of building something (or rebuilding) here On The Banks
And though it looked promising at the time (and, to his credit, has gone well as of now), an extension (at least, to the length and salary it was given) was not warranted IMO

Full disclosure, I like Pat
And regardless of how he left, I appreciate all that he did here
But contract extensions, and his handling of NIL, were not two of his shining moments

 

[WhiteBus]

Greg was in no danger of getting poached
Previously, during GS 1.0, there were multiple suitors (Miami and Michigan) who were after him
Hence, the extension (and well deserved at the time) was granted

This time, Pat extended him, but 95 and I, amongst others, were wondering why he did it, as it didn't make any sense at the time
GS wasn't leaving; rather, he was in the midst of building something (or rebuilding) here On The Banks
And though it looked promising at the time (and, to his credit, has gone well as of now), an extension (at least, to the length and salary it was given) was not warranted IMO

Full disclosure, I like Pat
And regardless of how he left, I appreciate all that he did here
But contract extensions, and his handling of NIL, were not two of his shining moments

Let ask again, I'll type slower so you can actually answer my question. How did it take funds away?? Someone has to be paid right?

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Let ask again, I'll type slower so you can actually answer my question. How did it take funds away?? Someone has to be paid right?

I'll type slower so you can do the math
We have X in our budget
Greg's being paid Y

X goes up every year, but similar to life and wages not increasing commensurate with infatuation, it doesn't go up enough to justify Y, especially if Y was fine where Y was (Greg wasn't going anywhere, and giving him an extension to the length and dollars he received didn't make sense), and X wasn't going up on a Bama type level with national championships, Heisman winners, merchandise sales, etc.

There's a certain budget for things
Staff is a huge part of that
If the budget's 10 mil, and Greg's making 7, that leaves 3 for all the rest of the assistants

He could have taken less (Tom Brady)
He could donate some to NIL (Norvell, Gundy, Kelly)
He could allocate a portion to his assistants (Dillingham)

But it's his money, and he can do what he wants w/it
The issue isn't with him
It's why Pat extended him, at the length and years he did, when he did

 

[rutgersal]

Greg was in no danger of getting poached
Previously, during GS 1.0, there were multiple suitors (Miami and Michigan) who were after him
Hence, the extension (and well deserved at the time) was granted

This time, Pat extended him, but 95 and I, amongst others, were wondering why he did it, as it didn't make any sense at the time
GS wasn't leaving; rather, he was in the midst of building something (or rebuilding) here On The Banks
And though it looked promising at the time (and, to his credit, has gone well as of now), an extension (at least, to the length and salary it was given) was not warranted IMO

Full disclosure, I like Pat
And regardless of how he left, I appreciate all that he did here
But contract extensions, and his handling of NIL, were not two of his shining moments

The quickest way to get your Coach poached is to underpay him. Pat was being proactive and it was one of the most astute moves he made, ensuring stability till 2030. Stability is obviously a big factor in recruiting.

Greg has built the program despite adverse circumstances such as lack of support and the increase in attendance easily justifies his extension and salary increase. He has special skills that no one else can replicate such as being able to recruit top notch players to Rutgers, despite our weaker value proposition relative to the competition.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

The quickest way to get your Coach poached is to underpay him. Pat was being proactive and it was one of the most astute moves he made, ensuring stability till 2030. Stability is obviously a big factor in recruiting.

Greg has built the program despite adverse circumstances such as lack of support and the increase in attendance easily justifies his extension and salary increase. He has special skills that no one else can replicate such as being able to recruit top notch players to Rutgers, despite our weaker value proposition relative to the competition.

Who was going to poach him Al?
Serious question

 

[WhiteBus]

I'll type slower so you can do the math
We have X in our budget
Greg's being paid Y

X goes up every year, but similar to life and wages not increasing commensurate with infatuation, it doesn't go up enough to justify Y, especially if Y was fine where Y was (Greg wasn't going anywhere, and giving him an extension to the length and dollars he received didn't make sense), and X wasn't going up on a Bama type level with national championships, Heisman winners, merchandise sales, etc.

There's a certain budget for things
Staff is a huge part of that
If the budget's 10 mil, and Greg's making 7, that leaves 3 for all the rest of the assistants

He could have taken less (Tom Brady)
He could donate some to NIL (Norvell, Gundy, Kelly)
He could allocate a portion to his assistants (Dillingham)

But it's his money, and he can do what he wants w/it
The issue isn't with him
It's why Pat extended him, at the length and years he did, when he did

You're not going to get a great head coach for less than what Schiano is making. So if Pat didn't extend him they would be paying more or equal to what his extension is for the next guy. Either way it didn't take funds away for the coming years! His salary next year is $4+ million, near the bottom of the Big Ten!

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

You're not going to get a great head coach for less than what Schiano is making. So if Pat didn't extend him they would be paying more or equal to what his extension is for the next guy. Either way it didn't take funds away for the coming years!

Greg had no leverage this time
He wasn't being targeted by other schools
He hadn't load of success (yet) in GS 2.0
He wasn't threatening to retire or ride off into the sunset

My guy got one based off winning 19 straight with Bama up his ass, then fleeced us for 10/mil year
There's a time and place for extensions
This situation (at least, the $$ and duration) was not that time

 

[WhiteBus]

Greg had no leverage this time
He wasn't being targeted by other schools
He hadn't load of success (yet) in GS 2.0
He wasn't threatening to retire or ride off into the sunset

My guy got one based off winning 19 straight with Bama up his ass, then fleeced us for 10/mil year
There's a time and place for extensions
This situation (at least, the $$ and duration) was not that time

Again, not taking funds away from the team. Next year he still will be near the bottom of the Big Ten.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Again, not taking funds away from the team. Next year he still will be near the bottom of the Big Ten.

The team (NIL) and the coaching salary pool are two separate buckets
He can donate to NIL if he chooses or give bonuses / take less money and give to assistants for coaches salaries

 

[NickRU714]

You're not going to get a great head coach for less than what Schiano is making. So if Pat didn't extend him they would be paying more or equal to what his extension is for the next guy. Either way it didn't take funds away for the coming years! His salary next year is $4+ million, near the bottom of the Big Ten!

I won't speak for others but my point had nothing to do with the next head coach.

Instead of taking a raise 4 years into a 8 year contract, HC Schiano could have said "I'll stay at my current salary for 2025, 2026 and 2027. Put that extra millions towards revenue sharing or the upcoming player compensation."
Similar to what other coaches are now doing (the point of this thread).

Not saying anything negative about it. HC Schiano needs to look out for himself first and not helping Rutgers.
But if he wanted to, he could have done that.

Perhaps he still will?

 

[rutgersal]

Who was going to poach him Al?
Serious question

He would have been a strong candidate for the North Carolina job. It is very important to pay your employees the prevailing wage, otherwise they will leave at the first opportunity. Especially when the relevant metrics such as increased attendance and wins justify the increase.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

He would have been a strong candidate for the North Carolina job. It is very important to pay your employees the prevailing wage, otherwise they will leave at the first opportunity. Especially when the relevant metrics such as increased attendance and wins justify the increase.

According to whom?
Mack wasn't in any danger when we extended GS

Also, with all due respect to GS, UNC has bigger aspirations than hiring him
BB is a legend
GS is GS

 

[WhiteBus]

The Schiano haters are out in force today!

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

The Schiano haters are out in force today!

Nobody is hating Schiano
I have given him tons of credit for what he's done here
But he's not coaching for free; hence, if criticism is warranted, we're entitled to give it

Hell, I loved Bobby
But when Bobby started looking out for Bobby and the results suffered, it was time to go

 

[rutgersal]

According to whom?
Mack wasn't in any danger when we extended GS

Also, with all due respect to GS, UNC has bigger aspirations than hiring him
BB is a legend
GS is GS

I’m just giving you an example of an opening he might have been a candidate for. Obviously the UNC job wasn’t open when the extension was granted. But possible openings like UNCs were in mind.

You pay people what they’re worth. Period. Look at the salaries in the Big Ten and you will see that he is paid appropriately.

 

[WhiteBus]

Nobody is hating Schiano
I have given him tons of credit for what he's done here
But he's not coaching for free; hence, if criticism is warranted, we're entitled to give it

Hell, I loved Bobby
But when Bobby started looking out for Bobby and the results suffered, it was time to go

This isn't about what happened at FSU, two completely different times and situations.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

I’m just giving you an example of an opening he might have been a candidate for. Obviously the UNC job wasn’t open when the extension was granted. But possible openings like UNCs were in mind.

You pay people what they’re worth. Period. Look at the salaries in the Big Ten and you will see that he is paid appropriately.

No coach is worth what they make, sans the great ones
You pay what the market bears, and in Greg's case, we bid against ourselves

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

This isn't about what happened at FSU, two completely different times and situations.

Bus I honestly don't want to argue
We have 2 different takes on this
That's cool, as we're both passionate

Let's agree to disagree, and respect each other's opinions
Simply put, love Greg and what he's done here, but don't think an extension was justified

 

[NickRU714]

He would have been a strong candidate for the North Carolina job. It is very important to pay your employees the prevailing wage, otherwise they will leave at the first opportunity. Especially when the relevant metrics such as increased attendance and wins justify the increase.

Why would HC Schiano be interested though?
Maybe I’m wrong but didn’t he say this was his last coaching stop?
After leaving the first time he realized his mistake and didn’t want to leave Rutgers again?

 

[WhiteBus]

Bus I honestly don't want to argue
We have 2 different takes on this
That's cool, as we're both passionate

Let's agree to disagree, and respect each other's opinions
Simply put, love Greg and what he's done here, but don't think an extension was justified

Yes, we do have two takes. Mine is as a Rutgers fan and yours is influenced by what happened at FSU during the Bobby Bowden as you just mentioned as an FSU fan.
I believe the majority of Rutgers fans are happy with Schiano and the extension isn't a problem to most of us. Flood and Ash are still fresh in our minds and the extension is a sign that Rutgers isn't an overly cheap College anymore. Rutgers don't want to return to the Flood or Ash years. Besides his extension helps in recruiting.
Arguing that it "takes funds from the program" as 95 said, is incorrect and it's anti-Schiano.

 

[rutgersguy1]

20.5M is the cap for all sports but I’m not sure if there is a minimum based on a school’s revenue or whatever metric.

The estimates were 15-17M of it for football but I’ve seen those numbers come down to 12-14M now for football.

I don’t know how the rest would get distributed if you’re a school that intends to spend to the full cap.

Tenn was adding a talent fee to their tickets to raise money. Clemson added an athletics fee to their tuition. Don’t know if other schools are doing similar but I’m sure some will. This restructuring of deals looks like another potential place to find some money for some schools.

Well TT looks like it’s going to be in that initial report of 15-17M range for football.

 

[RUTGERS95]

What?? Took funds away??? So they get rid of Schiano at his original contract length and the next HC is going to coach for free?

log off, you're clearly in the deep end where you don't belong

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Yes, we do have two takes. Mine is as a Rutgers fan and yours is influenced by what happened at FSU during the Bobby Bowden as you just mentioned as an FSU fan.
I believe the majority of Rutgers fans are happy with Schiano and the extension isn't a problem to most of us. Flood and Ash are still fresh in our minds and the extension is a sign that Rutgers isn't an overly cheap College anymore. Rutgers don't want to return to the Flood or Ash years. Besides his extension helps in recruiting.
Arguing that it "takes funds from the program" as 95 said, is incorrect and it's anti-Schiano.

Yes, our two takes differ b/c you, like a lot of other on here, are willing to settle for medioricity
Greg's own words - he wants to win championships.
Not consistently go to Pinstripe and shit bowls like that

I've lived in NJ the majority of my life, been going to Rutgers games for 30 years and have season tix for 20
I donate to R Fund, NIL and have season tickets for 4 sports here OTB
I think I'm pretty in tune with all things NJ and Rutgers and am pretty invested, regardless of my fandom of FSU

Nothing I said is anti-Schiano
Rather, it's an honest assessment of how he's going about doing things, his accomplishments while here, etc.

Again, if the Pinstripe is the ultimate goal, that's fine
But his goal here, and mine / others as well, is more than that
Much more

And thus, being that we're the paying customers and have skin in the game, are free to criticize as we see fit
That doesn't make us anti-GS.... it makes us honest

 

[rutgersal]

No coach is worth what they make, sans the great ones
You pay what the market bears, and in Greg's case, we bid against ourselves

Complete nonsense. Hobbs didn’t just pick a number out of a hat. He had experts study what Schiano was worth. Those experts came back and advised Hobbs and Hobbs ultimately made his decision. We are paying what the market would bear. Look at ACC Coaches salaries and you would recognize that. Heck Mike Norvell is making $10M a year and now giving back $4M. Christobal is making $8M. Belichek is making $10M. Dabo Sweeney is making $11.1M. Bill Obrien is making $5M. In the Big Ten, Luke Fickell makes $7.7M. Matt Rhule makes $6.5M.

Schiano is worth more than he makes. The exposure we will be getting from playing in the Guaranteed Rate Bowl is immense. Landing a terrific recruiting class and great transfer prospects for Rutgers is further proof of his value.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Well TT looks like it’s going to be in that initial report of 15-17M range for football.

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[rutgersal]

Revenue generation makes the most sense, imo.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Complete nonsense. Hobbs didn’t just pick a number out of a hat. He had experts study what Schiano was worth. Those experts came back and advised Hobbs and Hobbs ultimately made his decision. We are paying what the market would bear. Look at ACC Coaches salaries and you would recognize that. Heck Mike Norvell is making $10M a year and now giving back $4M. Christobal is making $8M. Belichek is making $10M. Dabo Sweeney is making $11.1M. Bill Obrien is making $5M. In the Big Ten, Luke Fickell makes $7.7M. Matt Rhule makes $6.5M.

Schiano is worth more than he makes. The exposure we will be getting from playing in the Guaranteed Rate Bowl is immense. Landing a terrific recruiting class and great transfer prospects for Rutgers is further proof of his value.

Mike was at 6 mil, then winning 19 in a row and having Bama on his ass forced FSU's hand
He would have gotten an increase if they wouldn't have gotten snubbed, but prob to around 7-8 mil
Bama coming in got Jimmy to fleece them to the tune of 10 mil/year
Point is, he produced tangible results before getting the bump

Again, I'm not saying don't raise his salary
I'm saying the years and $$ per year are what was problematic IMO

Also, please delete the nonsense about "The exposure we will be getting from playing in the Guaranteed Rate Bowl is immense."
I know you're smarter than that