Cover Four Man Press Defense..over and over again..

[BlockR]

first..after two games its pretty clear,unless linebackers improve and a few Corners get better quickly,RU can not run this defense non stop.Simple fly or go routes leave corners chasing talented WRS down the field with no saftey help.Until RU gets the talent and depth at LB and corners,I cant see this being the base defense and also why on third down calls ,say with 10 yards,or nine yards do we stay in this man press..and not switch to basic zone at times.
In b10 play..we could get seriously TORCHED ,staying in this defense call..every down.

 

[musclesmarinara]

Howard watched the UW "high" lights and exposed the corners early with the same plays.

 

[gef21]

The issue was that we were not playing the cover 4 pattern read press well. You have to understand how the cover 4 press defense works. The object of this defense is to make contact and press coverage until the zone you are responsible for is put in jeopardy.

It is a difficult concept to play but works wonders when you play it. Playing a "regular zone" is a far worse options because that is running to a place (if someone is there or not) and covering it. This defense takes time to understand and is a process but works wonders.

On the play that we picked howard off Hayes did a TERRIBLE job of engaging the #2 WR. His job is to engage #2 and get eyes to #3. #2 ran free putting our Safety and CB in a very bad spot. Luckily the howard qb made a terrible throw and we picked it off. Hayes got ripped on the side line because it was a blown coverage and luckily we made a big play.

Be patient with the process.

 

[goru7]

Howard watched the UW "high" lights and exposed the corners early with the same plays.

Corners were hardly burned and not burned badly. The only passing Td was against the nickel back , Ross, the Michigan , who pulled up lame and never returned. Hayes came in and played great at nickel most of the rest of the day until he went to corner late. Austin was almost perfect and played great.

 

[drewbagel423]

Isn't cover 4 where the two safeties and two CBs drop back and each cover one-quarter of the field width, while the three guys play underneath zones? Where is there man-to-man?

 

[BlockR]

- Cornerbacks can play Cover 4 from a press alignment and jam/re-route on the release with help from the safeties inside in a quarters technique. As you can see below, both corners are in a press look with the safeties reading through the release of the No. 2 receivers (slot receiver, tight end).

Credit: NFL Game Rewind
- The strong and free safety play with a flat-foot read (no backpedal) through their run/pass keys (fill downhill versus the run) and align on the inside eye of No. 2 (inside slot receivers in this example).

They are responsible for playing the vertical release of No. 2 (pattern match) past a depth of 12 yards. However, if there is no inside vertical threat, both safeties will look outside to "bracket" No. 1 on a possible curl, dig or post (wheel to the hip of the receiver on the post).

You have to have CBS that can play jam off the line and have speed.

 

[BlockR]

here is an even greater breakdown from Ash time at Iowa state to OSU explaining how to play man press coverage..

http://breakdownsports.blogspot.com/2015/06/football-fundamentals-ohio-state-chris-ash-on-press-coverage-technique.html

Im sure we will see this on NJ.COM tomorrow after I post this.. lol ..

 

[Yeah Baby]

Good Football thread. The play that hurt us most on the first drive was 3rd and 11 from around midfield. Howard had trips to the left and we had a LB!, CB and S to that side. We blitzed the LB on that side and apparently did not disguise it well at all because the QB audibles and then threw a quick pass to the slot leaving our S to come up at full speed and a quick sidestep made him look bad. IMO, we should not blitz both OLBs in a 4 WR set. Second we should have out Nickel on the field in that down and distance. Third, Our S did not need to fly up on 3rd and 11. He needs to break down and just slow the WR down long enough for the other S and Mike to swarm. No way that play should be a first down.

 

[gef21]

Look up cover 4 pattern read for a good description on how it works. Basically you are in a cover 4 shell but play the actual routes as opposed to running to a spot.

I ran this defense when I was a DC and people constantly thought we ran man coverage. We forced all kinds of turnovers with it. When you run it well (like MSU) it causes a lot of problems.

 

[beaced]

The issue was that we were not playing the cover 4 pattern read press well. You have to understand how the cover 4 press defense works. The object of this defense is to make contact and press coverage until the zone you are responsible for is put in jeopardy.

It is a difficult concept to play but works wonders when you play it. Playing a "regular zone" is a far worse options because that is running to a place (if someone is there or not) and covering it. This defense takes time to understand and is a process but works wonders.

On the play that we picked howard off Hayes did a TERRIBLE job of engaging the #2 WR. His job is to engage #2 and get eyes to #3. #2 ran free putting our Safety and CB in a very bad spot. Luckily the howard qb made a terrible throw and we picked it off. Hayes got ripped on the side line because it was a blown coverage and luckily we made a big play.

Be patient with the process.

Hayes is a Freshman and has a lot to learn.BUT he will. Learning from mistakes is great way to do it.Tends to stick in your memory.

 

[BlockR]

Good Football thread. The play that hurt us most on the first drive was 3rd and 11 from around midfield. Howard had trips to the left and we had a LB!, CB and S to that side. We blitzed the LB on that side and apparently did not disguise it well at all because the QB audibles and then threw a quick pass to the slot leaving our S to come up at full speed and a quick sidestep made him look bad. IMO, we should not blitz both OLBs in a 4 WR set. Second we should have out Nickel on the field in that down and distance. Third, Our S did not need to fly up on 3rd and 11. He needs to break down and just slow the WR down long enough for the other S and Mike to swarm. No way that play should be a first down.

That was my main complaint in both Wash game and Howard. for defense secondary scheme..on third downs and distance ..why not run nickel ?? OLB blitz and saftey walking up on third down..is a big roll of dice when offense needs bigger yards ..on third down..Plus our linebackers are not a postion of strength to blitz them there..

 

[RUforJERSEY]

As much as we (myself included) complained when we gave 10 yards of cushion; im not gonna complain now that we're challenging receivers.

 

[D1ESEL44]

The issue was that we were not playing the cover 4 pattern read press well. You have to understand how the cover 4 press defense works. The object of this defense is to make contact and press coverage until the zone you are responsible for is put in jeopardy.

It is a difficult concept to play but works wonders when you play it. Playing a "regular zone" is a far worse options because that is running to a place (if someone is there or not) and covering it. This defense takes time to understand and is a process but works wonders.

On the play that we picked howard off Hayes did a TERRIBLE job of engaging the #2 WR. His job is to engage #2 and get eyes to #3. #2 ran free putting our Safety and CB in a very bad spot. Luckily the howard qb made a terrible throw and we picked it off. Hayes got ripped on the side line because it was a blown coverage and luckily we made a big play.

Be patient with the process.

Great post. We have a lot of youth in that secondary, and as you described it is going to take time. I think we are recruiting the personnel to run this system. For the cover 4 to be successful, you really need cover corners who can jam the WRs hard (i.e big, physical), but it also helps to have a former B1G 10 DB to coach technique.

 

[Knight Shift]

The issue was that we were not playing the cover 4 pattern read press well. You have to understand how the cover 4 press defense works. The object of this defense is to make contact and press coverage until the zone you are responsible for is put in jeopardy.

It is a difficult concept to play but works wonders when you play it. Playing a "regular zone" is a far worse options because that is running to a place (if someone is there or not) and covering it. This defense takes time to understand and is a process but works wonders.

On the play that we picked howard off Hayes did a TERRIBLE job of engaging the #2 WR. His job is to engage #2 and get eyes to #3. #2 ran free putting our Safety and CB in a very bad spot. Luckily the howard qb made a terrible throw and we picked it off. Hayes got ripped on the side line because it was a blown coverage and luckily we made a big play.

Be patient with the process.

gef21-thank you for posting here. Your posts are a breath of fresh air and bring a world of knowledge to less knowledgeable football fans. I hope you keep posting here. I am sure that many folks here like your posts as well. Great work.

 

[gef21]

gef21-thank you for posting here. Your posts are a breath of fresh air and bring a world of knowledge to less knowledgeable football fans. I hope you keep posting here. I am sure that many folks here like your posts as well. Great work.

Thanks. I love talking football, or lacrosse, and can do it all day.

It was actually funny. On the play that we intercepted Howard I told my dad to watch Hayes because he was the most important piece in everything that was about to happen. It was almost text book that he blew the coverage. As soon as he did not put his hands on number 2 I knew there was a problem. He did nothing. We were very lucky that the Howard QB made a bad throw.

It takes time to learn the defense but it can be really effective, even with not top tier athletes.

 

[gef21]

Good Football thread. The play that hurt us most on the first drive was 3rd and 11 from around midfield. Howard had trips to the left and we had a LB!, CB and S to that side. We blitzed the LB on that side and apparently did not disguise it well at all because the QB audibles and then threw a quick pass to the slot leaving our S to come up at full speed and a quick sidestep made him look bad. IMO, we should not blitz both OLBs in a 4 WR set. Second we should have out Nickel on the field in that down and distance. Third, Our S did not need to fly up on 3rd and 11. He needs to break down and just slow the WR down long enough for the other S and Mike to swarm. No way that play should be a first down.

Once they saw that we were in the blitz we should have checked out of it. The general rule is you want 3 over 3 or 4 over 3 and in that situation we had 2 over 3. BUT the safety also missed the tackled as he screamed to the flat. We set up in a cover 4 look but went to cover 3 (the SS was robbing the flat).

The SS did a terrible job of getting to the flat. He should have crept earlier to pick that ball off or at least make the tackle.

 

[rucoe89]

Thanks. I love talking football, or lacrosse, and can do it all day.

It was actually funny. On the play that we intercepted Howard I told my dad to watch Hayes because he was the most important piece in everything that was about to happen. It was almost text book that he blew the coverage. As soon as he did not put his hands on number 2 I knew there was a problem. He did nothing. We were very lucky that the Howard QB made a bad throw.

It takes time to learn the defense but it can be really effective, even with not top tier athletes.

Did you see improvement as the day went on?

 

[gef21]

Did you see improvement as the day went on?

I did. There is still too much "peaking" instead of looking at the WRs but there was nice jobs of passing WRs off from zone to zone and contacting the WRs down field.

 

[RUScrew85]

first..after two games its pretty clear,unless linebackers improve and a few Corners get better quickly,RU can not run this defense non stop.Simple fly or go routes leave corners chasing talented WRS down the field with no saftey help.Until RU gets the talent and depth at LB and corners,I cant see this being the base defense and also why on third down calls ,say with 10 yards,or nine yards do we stay in this man press..and not switch to basic zone at times.
In b10 play..we could get seriously TORCHED ,staying in this defense call..every down.

I'm gonna go with the staff is running pretty vanilla programs against non-conference opponents. Goota save something for the games that count.

 

[tico brown]

Is this the Michigan State press defense where you can play the run with 9 within 5 yards while the safeties check 2 or play deep.

 

[LotusAggressor]

There was a pretty good article about this defense a couple of years ago. It's similar to what Michigan State does. The difference is that Michigan State generates a ton of pressure on the QB.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/michigan-state-oregon-pat-narduzzi-defense-breakdown/

 

[Yeah Baby]

Once they saw that we were in the blitz we should have checked out of it. The general rule is you want 3 over 3 or 4 over 3 and in that situation we had 2 over 3. BUT the safety also missed the tackled as he screamed to the flat. We set up in a cover 4 look but went to cover 3 (the SS was robbing the flat).

The SS did a terrible job of getting to the flat. He should have crept earlier to pick that ball off or at least make the tackle.

Agree with your comments but if the SS was robbing the flat who was covering deep? I don't think he had any chance to pick that off honestly and if you are coming hard to make that play you need to get there on time. He was a split second late which allowed for the WR to sidestep him easily. His play there was to break down and force the WR to make a move, preferably to the middle where his help was coming from.

BTW, our OLB got picked by the ref so he was late to the play forcing the WS to come all the way over to make the tackle. First down and if he jukes the WS Touchdown.

 

[kupuna133]

I did. There is still too much "peaking" instead of looking at the WRs but there was nice jobs of passing WRs off from zone to zone and contacting the WRs down field.

There has been tremendous improvement from last year to this and great improvement from game 1-2. The DB's will have growing pains. The issue is the same as last year the front 4 have to get better penetration. The DL needs to get better penetration and earlier in the game to make the QB uncomfortable. They don't have to necessarily get sacks but they need to collapse the pocket and force early throws. This alone will help the DB play.

 

[gef21]

Agree with your comments but if the SS was robbing the flat who was covering deep? I don't think he had any chance to pick that off honestly and if you are coming hard to make that play you need to get there on time. He was a split second late which allowed for the WR to sidestep him easily. His play there was to break down and force the WR to make a move, preferably to the middle where his help was coming from.

BTW, our OLB got picked by the ref so he was late to the play forcing the WS to come all the way over to make the tackle. First down and if he jukes the WS Touchdown.

We had the CB, the FS , and the opposite CB. Most likely playing 1/4 1/4 1/2 to the trips but could have been 1/3 1/3 1/3. The SS needed to start creeping before the snap to play that well.

 

[gef21]

There has been tremendous improvement from last year to this and great improvement from game 1-2. The DB's will have growing pains. The issue is the same as last year the front 4 have to get better penetration. The DL needs to get better penetration and earlier in the game to make the QB uncomfortable. They don't have to necessarily get sacks but they need to collapse the pocket and force early throws. This alone will help the DB play.

The DL played terribly. I am actually very upset at the general consistency both lines have shown so far.

 

[mildone]

The DL played terribly. I am actually very upset at the general consistency both lines have shown so far.

Agreed. And, and correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't seem to me that this week's preparation for the triple option will be all that applicable to the game against Iowa.

 

[Yeah Baby]

We had the CB, the FS , and the opposite CB. Most likely playing 1/4 1/4 1/2 to the trips but could have been 1/3 1/3 1/3. The SS needed to start creeping before the snap to play that well.

I don't think so. The FS was nowhere near the middle of the field. Then again it was a quick hitter so who knows. But the SS did not appear to be Robbing the flat in watching the replay. if he played that tight and the CB was pressing then somebody is wide open. We were giving them the underneath there on 3rd and 11.

Both lines started shaky but picked it up in q2 and dominated the second half as they should. Need to start stronger from now on.

 

[cicero grimes]

That was my main complaint in both Wash game and Howard. for defense secondary scheme..on third downs and distance ..why not run nickel ?? OLB blitz and saftey walking up on third down..is a big roll of dice when offense needs bigger yards ..on third down..Plus our linebackers are not a postion of strength to blitz them there..

Agreed. Also our blitz packages are very well disguised and seem to be easily read by the qb and picked up. One thing about GS is he always had well disguised blitzes and brought pressure from a variety of angles.

 

[miketd1]

If a team bases out of cover-4, it's rare to have second level defenders responsible for deep coverage.

So why not have a LB instead of a lighter CB if they are never defending deep anyway. The idea being you can stuff the run or blitz more effectively with a bigger player.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Gef, watched that play again and we either had a messed up call or someone blew their assignment. We were in Nickel and he blitzed. The inside Backer in (Morris) also blitzed. The other backer (Jones) was lined up on the same side as the solo WR and faked his blitz and then dropped. So we had 3 guys on the side of the field with one WR and 2 guys on the side of the field with 3 WR. Very strange. No way Hester can play that tight since the corner started in press and they both dropped to the first down marker. If he plays that WR tight then one of the other two are wide open. One ran a deep route covered by the corner and the other was short on the sidelines wide open.

My guess is blown assignment but coaches make mistakes too.

 

[gef21]

Gef, watched that play again and we either had a messed up call or someone blew their assignment. We were in Nickel and he blitzed. The inside Backer in (Morris) also blitzed. The other backer (Jones) was lined up on the same side as the solo WR and faked his blitz and then dropped. So we had 3 guys on the side of the field with one WR and 2 guys on the side of the field with 3 WR. Very strange. No way Hester can play that tight since the corner started in press and they both dropped to the first down marker. If he plays that WR tight then one of the other two are wide open. One ran a deep route covered by the corner and the other was short on the sidelines wide open.

My guess is blown assignment but coaches make mistakes too.

That can be very true because having two over three is like a huge no no. I guess I tried to rationalize it as opposed to thinking it was just a screw up (which honestly I HOPE is more likely). If I was going to bring heat off of the edge to trips, which I do, I am going to be in our roll 3 or squat call. This would bail the CB to play 1/4, bring the SS down, the inside backer out to the flat and the opposite side safety to the other strength side 1/4. This leave the backside CB in deep half but essentially it is man on the #1 on that side with the LB helping on the slant.

 

[BlockR]

since Hamptons going to be out a few more weeks,Hester better step it up.He needs to improve his tackling and play more physical.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Good stuff Gef, thanks.