ADVERTISEMENT

COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why? Because I have watched people I know who are young upper 30’s and low 40’s die who were perfectly healthy. I have friends in the same age group with no conditions end up in the hospital for weeks on ventilators and will have permanent long term damage. So there is a middle ground. Not saying we can’t reopen but we can do it and wear masks. Restaurants can reopen with no masks. That is a persons choice to go there. But stores and offices and parks should be mandatory to wear masks. It’s not that big of a deal to wear one. We can reopen while making it as safe as possible for everyone.
I'm in a store so you don't need to educate me. I wear a mask 8-10 hours a day. Again you are missing the point or ignoring the data. The worst is over. I was sent to Penn Hospital last week to the emergency room from their Urgent Care. I was thinking I would be in a normal full emergencie ward. I walk in and the place was vacant. Two check in personnel sitting there doing nothing. Sat down for under 10 seconds and met the admission person. 2 minutes later was in an emergency room by myself and a nurse right behind me. Followed by an emergency room doctor. Had blood tests done and was out within an hour. The crisis is over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: biker7766
Why? Because I have watched people I know who are young upper 30’s and low 40’s die who were perfectly healthy. I have friends in the same age group with no conditions end up in the hospital for weeks on ventilators and will have permanent long term damage. So there is a middle ground. Not saying we can’t reopen but we can do it and wear masks. Restaurants can reopen with no masks. That is a persons choice to go there. But stores and offices and parks should be mandatory to wear masks. It’s not that big of a deal to wear one. We can reopen while making it as safe as possible for everyone.
Some misinformed people think it's "over" simply because we greatly reduced transmission rates during the first wave and now have much lower numbers of cases/hospitalizations/deaths etc. But given that probably (and these are best guesses, based on the fact NY has 12.3% infected and NYC has ~20%) 1-3% of Americans have been infected in rural areas and most states with <100 deaths per 1MM people and probably 3-7% have been infected in most of the rest of the states and 7-20% in states with >400 deaths/1MM people (NY, NJ, CT, MA, DC, RI, LA, MI, PA, IL, MD), if we "went back to normal" (which isn't going to happen, but this is a hypothetical) we'd go right back to where we were in the first wave. And it would then be way worse in those states that have had it "easy" so far, since those states are now seeded with more cases than they had when this took off in early/mid March for most.

That's the point behind masks and social distancing - if everyone does those things, like in much of Asia, we'd be able to open just about everything back up and only have a trickle of cases and the occasional hotspot that fast testing and quick tracing with isolations could stamp out quickly. It's not hard if people aren't stupid, but my fear is we have way too many people who either don't believe in the science or simply don't care about their fellow humans, but even then, there's no way we're going to see a 2nd wave as bad as the first one, since at least half the population is not going to just stop their interventions.

What we're very likely to see is a long, slow burn with hotspots, where that long, slow burn in areas with half or more people practicing masks/SD will have pretty low rates of infection, whereas areas that have much less masks/SD could get pretty bad, especially in their densely populated areas and especially since most of the rest of the US has <7% infected vs. more than that for much of the NE US from DC to Boston and a few other states (less targets here). Even with that, we could be looking at 500 deaths per day, still, for the foreseeable future, which is still 15.000 per month or 180K in over the next year. Not trivial and we know, based on other countries doing this very well, that that death rate could be 1-10 per day. We have the ability to do much, much better, but I don't think we have the will or leadership to make that happen.
 
Why? Because I have watched people I know who are young upper 30’s and low 40’s die who were perfectly healthy. I have friends in the same age group with no conditions end up in the hospital for weeks on ventilators and will have permanent long term damage. So there is a middle ground. Not saying we can’t reopen but we can do it and wear masks. Restaurants can reopen with no masks. That is a persons choice to go there. But stores and offices and parks should be mandatory to wear masks. It’s not that big of a deal to wear one. We can reopen while making it as safe as possible for everyone.

Gov. Murphy appears to disagree since he isn't mandating masks in outdoor areas that can accommodate social distancing (such as parks or on the beach).

Everyone here keeps complaining about people not wearing masks.
Blame Gov. Murphy - not "selfish people who don't care about others".
Guarantee those "selfish" people are wearing masks to stores because it's required.

It's a simple fix - if Gov. Murphy mandated masks and it was enforced, people would wear masks.

I literally go out to pick up coffee every day and have seen zero people trying to go into a store without a mask.

If it was the required by the Gov.
then it would occur.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WhiteBus
Some misinformed people think it's "over" simply because we greatly reduced transmission rates during the first wave and now have much lower numbers of cases/hospitalizations/deaths etc. But given that probably (and these are best guesses, based on the fact NY has 12.3% infected and NYC has ~20%) 1-3% of Americans have been infected in rural areas and most states with <100 deaths per 1MM people and probably 3-7% have been infected in most of the rest of the states and 7-20% in states with >400 deaths/1MM people (NY, NJ, CT, MA, DC, RI, LA, MI, PA, IL, MD), if we "went back to normal" (which isn't going to happen, but this is a hypothetical) we'd go right back to where we were in the first wave. And it would then be way worse in those states that have had it "easy" so far, since those states are now seeded with more cases than they had when this took off in early/mid March for most.

That's the point behind masks and social distancing - if everyone does those things, like in much of Asia, we'd be able to open just about everything back up and only have a trickle of cases and the occasional hotspot that fast testing and quick tracing with isolations could stamp out quickly. It's not hard if people aren't stupid, but my fear is we have way too many people who either don't believe in the science or simply don't care about their fellow humans, but even then, there's no way we're going to see a 2nd wave as bad as the first one, since at least half the population is not going to just stop their interventions.

What we're very likely to see is a long, slow burn with hotspots, where that long, slow burn in areas with half or more people practicing masks/SD will have pretty low rates of infection, whereas areas that have much less masks/SD could get pretty bad, especially in their densely populated areas and especially since most of the rest of the US has <7% infected vs. more than that for much of the NE US from DC to Boston and a few other states (less targets here). Even with that, we could be looking at 500 deaths per day, still, for the foreseeable future, which is still 15.000 per month or 180K in over the next year. Not trivial and we know, based on other countries doing this very well, that that death rate could be 1-10 per day. We have the ability to do much, much better, but I don't think we have the will or leadership to make that happen.
Simple question. What is by far most important. Social distancing or masks. And do you agree that people wearing masks tend to ignore social distancing?
I'm not looking for a thousand word answer either. Simply yes or no to both questions
 
Last edited:
Simple question. What is by far most important. Social distancing or masks. And do you agree that people wearing masks tend to ignore social distancing?
I'm not looking for a thousand word answer either. Simply yes or no to both questions
Staying employed, then distancing, then masks.

about 1/2 ignore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T2Kplus10
4 Professors did some calculations and came up with the cost in years of life on the shutdown, I don't believe that they are advocating that no shutdown should have happened only the consequences of the shutdown can be measure in lives.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...will-cost-americans-millions-of-years-of-life

The policies have created the greatest global economic disruption in history, with trillions of dollars of lost economic output. These financial losses have been falsely portrayed as purely economic. To the contrary, using numerous National Institutes of Health Public Access publications, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Bureau of Labor Statistics data, and various actuarial tables, we calculate that these policies will cause devastating non-economic consequences that will total millions of accumulated years of life lost in the United States, far beyond what the virus itself has caused.
 
Staying employed, then distancing, then masks.
Hell I'm beginning to become jealous of those unemployed getting unemployment plus $600 a week. At least they buy a lot of beer and wine.

But answer the two questions
 
we calculate that these policies will cause devastating non-economic consequences that will total millions of accumulated years of life lost in the United States, far beyond what the virus itself has caused.
2 issues.

1)it's a model of sorts, and we know those can be faulty.

2)It's comparing the model results to the results of the virus, but the results of the virus have been limited due to the policies.

You could compare the models that these guys present against a model of the results of letting the virus run wild. I think that would be a more fitting comparison.
 
A good one.
It isn't. Let me educate your dumb ass. Before I can punch into work I have to get a temperture check. If I'm at 99.8 degrees or above I get sent home with pay. If the next day is the same I get paid for that day too but I cant return for a minimum of 14 days and must pay for a test to prove I do not have the virus. I can not file for unemployment but have to file for short term disability which never gets approved. The law prevents from us giving temp checks to customers. The law also states to enter a store a customer has to wear a mask but if they don't cover their entire mouth and nose once inside we can't trow them out. Incredibly if someone comes into the store coughing, sneezing, sweating as long as they are wearing mask we can not throw them out.
Keep believing the government is on top of this.
 
The CDC used to be the preeminent public health organization in the world, looking back at their amazing work during H1N1, Ebola, and many others. Not anymore after being eviscerated and sidelined by this Administration.

This time around they completely bungled test development and distribution and were weeks late on strongly endorsing wearing masks (although that effort has been fairly quiet and ineffective with lack of leadership from Trump on down, as seen in every public appearance) and now they're issuing what most experts think are underestimates of the potential impact from the virus. So forgive me if I chuckle when you say I and most experts will be wrong because we disagree with the CDC.
Just checking in to point out once again.....you are wrong!

CDC fatality rate = 0.25% (and will keep getting lower).

Can I get some Ric Flair?

source.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: biker7766
4 Professors did some calculations and came up with the cost in years of life on the shutdown, I don't believe that they are advocating that no shutdown should have happened only the consequences of the shutdown can be measure in lives.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...will-cost-americans-millions-of-years-of-life

The policies have created the greatest global economic disruption in history, with trillions of dollars of lost economic output. These financial losses have been falsely portrayed as purely economic. To the contrary, using numerous National Institutes of Health Public Access publications, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Bureau of Labor Statistics data, and various actuarial tables, we calculate that these policies will cause devastating non-economic consequences that will total millions of accumulated years of life lost in the United States, far beyond what the virus itself has caused.
+1
Thanks for posting. The chicken littles really screwed up the country.
 
Are you working? From home? Front line person? Essential? Working 50-60 hours a week?
I don't wear a mask while working. My home isn't that dangerous, expect for stepping on my daughter's Legos that are left around the place, ouch. :)
 
I don't wear a mask while working. My home isn't that dangerous, expect for stepping on my daughter's Legos that are left around the place, ouch. :)
It's funny those working from home or unemployed keep saying it is so easy to wear a mask all day. And yet they don't wear one at all except wearing one for 15 mins as they shop a week. Thankfully it was a cool April and May. Today was brutal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LC-88
It's funny those working from home or unemployed keep saying it is so easy to wear a mask all day. And yet they don't wear one at all except wearing one for 15 mins as they shop a week. Thankfully it was a cool April and May. Today was brutal.
Wearing a mask sucks. When I go to SR, by the time I'm leaving it's definitely time to take it off. Now this is an N95 mask, not some pointless cloth POS, but it's tough to keep it on for more than 30 mins or so.
 
Simple question. What is by far most important. Social distancing or masks. And do you agree that people wearing masks tend to ignore social distancing?
I'm not looking for a thousand word answer either. Simply yes or no to both questions

Sorry, there's no simple yes/no, as it's situationally dependent. If everyone kept 6 feet apart, there'd be no need for masks, but that's not realistic in our world, so the masks are necessary for when people are closer than 6 feet. In a sense, then, I would say the masks are more important, at least where people can't avoid close contact, like mass transit, shops, restaurants and such. Just google Japan or South Korea and subways and masks and you'll see nearly everyone wearing masks, since it's impossible to keep more than a foot or two away at times. I do agree that people wearing masks tend to ignore social distancing more.
 
Sorry, there's no simple yes/no, as it's situationally dependent. If everyone kept 6 feet apart, there'd be no need for masks, but that's not realistic in our world, so the masks are necessary for when people are closer than 6 feet. In a sense, then, I would say the masks are more important, at least where people can't avoid close contact, like mass transit, shops, restaurants and such. Just google Japan or South Korea and subways and masks and you'll see nearly everyone wearing masks, since it's impossible to keep more than a foot or two away at times. I do agree that people wearing masks tend to ignore social distancing more.
Although I agree with most of your lengthy answer. The simple answer is social distancing is by far much more important. And it is a simple answer. Situationly if people keep social distancing it blows away the value of a mask. Is that so hard to admit??
 
  • Like
Reactions: T2Kplus10
Some misinformed people think it's "over" simply because we greatly reduced transmission rates during the first wave and now have much lower numbers of cases/hospitalizations/deaths etc. But given that probably (and these are best guesses, based on the fact NY has 12.3% infected and NYC has ~20%) 1-3% of Americans have been infected in rural areas and most states with <100 deaths per 1MM people and probably 3-7% have been infected in most of the rest of the states and 7-20% in states with >400 deaths/1MM people (NY, NJ, CT, MA, DC, RI, LA, MI, PA, IL, MD), if we "went back to normal" (which isn't going to happen, but this is a hypothetical) we'd go right back to where we were in the first wave. And it would then be way worse in those states that have had it "easy" so far, since those states are now seeded with more cases than they had when this took off in early/mid March for most.

That's the point behind masks and social distancing - if everyone does those things, like in much of Asia, we'd be able to open just about everything back up and only have a trickle of cases and the occasional hotspot that fast testing and quick tracing with isolations could stamp out quickly. It's not hard if people aren't stupid, but my fear is we have way too many people who either don't believe in the science or simply don't care about their fellow humans, but even then, there's no way we're going to see a 2nd wave as bad as the first one, since at least half the population is not going to just stop their interventions.

What we're very likely to see is a long, slow burn with hotspots, where that long, slow burn in areas with half or more people practicing masks/SD will have pretty low rates of infection, whereas areas that have much less masks/SD could get pretty bad, especially in their densely populated areas and especially since most of the rest of the US has <7% infected vs. more than that for much of the NE US from DC to Boston and a few other states (less targets here). Even with that, we could be looking at 500 deaths per day, still, for the foreseeable future, which is still 15.000 per month or 180K in over the next year. Not trivial and we know, based on other countries doing this very well, that that death rate could be 1-10 per day. We have the ability to do much, much better, but I don't think we have the will or leadership to make that happen.
Let me ask you another question. This virus was different in many ways of all before. However from a cycle standpoint it is acting like most others? And we are a million miles past its peak?
 
It isn't. Let me educate your dumb ass. Before I can punch into work I have to get a temperture check. If I'm at 99.8 degrees or above I get sent home with pay. If the next day is the same I get paid for that day too but I cant return for a minimum of 14 days and must pay for a test to prove I do not have the virus. I can not file for unemployment but have to file for short term disability which never gets approved. The law prevents from us giving temp checks to customers. The law also states to enter a store a customer has to wear a mask but if they don't cover their entire mouth and nose once inside we can't trow them out. Incredibly if someone comes into the store coughing, sneezing, sweating as long as they are wearing mask we can not throw them out.
Keep believing the government is on top of this.
Many people with corona virus don’t have a fever. Go sell your crap in your store and stop acting like an authority
 
  • Like
Reactions: albanyknight
Many people with corona virus don’t have a fever. Go sell your crap in your store and stop acting like an authority
What about that do have all the symptoms? And what are you doing to make a living? Working from home? Unemployed? Do you wear a mask everyday? For 8-10 hours? Of course you don't. Your an idiot in your mom's bunker.
As far as selling crap you are clueless. I am I three time winner of the best in Philly Beer business in the last 7 years.
 
Last edited:
Let me ask you another question. This virus was different in many ways of all before. However from a cycle standpoint it is acting like most others? And we are a million miles past its peak?

This one is the worst in a long, long time, probably the worst since the 1918 pandemic (when all is said and done). It's acting pretty much like what one would expect a novel, highly transmissible virus with about 5-10X the symptomatic infection mortality rate of the flu would act. So many people miss the "novel" part of this virus - because it's new to the planet, in theory (and without a vaccine) it will simply eventually infect until roughly 55-80% are infected (herd immunity - this is the general range of estimates), eventually, which could take weeks in a densely populated, closed community like a prison or years in a sparsely populated rural community.

By contrast the flu only results in symptomatic infections for about 10% of the population, since many are immune to it - this is probably about 1/4 the number of people who will eventually have symptomatic COVID infections (if ~65% of COVID infections are symptomatic as per CDC). Multiply it out and that's 20-40X the total deaths from the flu (~35K/year x 20-40 is 700-1400K), which is why experts keep saying this ain't the flu.

And there's no simple answer to the peak question. Countries like Taiwan, South Korea, Japan and others are banking on being able to maintain their system of interventions until there is a cure/vaccine, probably limiting infections to <1% of their populations and thus hugely limiting deaths and illnesses. Their "peaks" are tiny compared to the peaks we've seen in the US/Europe. Yes, we're well past that first peak, because of stay at home orders, masks and social distancing, but anywhere with <5% infected (or even 20% like NYC) can still have raging major peaks as bad as the first one or worse, if society decided to just "go back to normal." I don't expect that, but that's what would happen if they did.

I've said this a few times now: short of a cure/vaccine, there's only one "hope" we kind of have for this being a lot less impactful than everyone thinks and that's if the cross-reactivity we've seen in some people unexposed to the virus (based on testing their serum in cell cultures against the new virus and seeing indications of potential antibody and T-cell activity) confers some immunity or at least makes for a much milder infection. There's no way of knowing the answer to this now, though and even if we did, doing these tests require days of work to assess cross-reactivity for one single person (there's no simple "test" for this), so we're very unlikely to ever "know" who might have build in defenses.
 
What about that do have all the symptoms? And what are you doing to make a living? Working from home? Unemployed? Do you wear a mask everyday? For 8-10 hours? Of course you don't. Your an idiot in your mom's bunker.
As far as selling crap you are clueless. I am I three time winner of the best in Philly Beer business in the last 7 years.
It’s you're,*** you’re an idiot. Plenty of people with other symptoms don’t have fevers, plenty of people are asymptomatic. It’s a good law. You hate masks you hate gloves, you know the virus cycle for every virus and know they’re all the same and are an award winning beer guy. You really are a renaissance man. Maybe listen to the people who know what they’re talking about. You don’t see doctor fauci telling you how to make or sell your beer
 
Last edited:
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.amp...-which-caused-who-to-halt-trials-for-covid-19

From the article:


Questions have been raised by Australian infectious disease researchers about a study published in the Lancet which prompted the World Health Organization to halt global trials of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19.

The study published on Friday found Covid-19 patients who received the malaria drug were dying at higher rates and experiencing more heart-related complications than other virus patients. The large observational study analysed data from nearly 15,000 patients with Covid-19 who received the drug alone or in combination with antibiotics, comparing this data with 81,000 controls who did not receive the drug.

The findings prompted researchers from around the world to reassess their own clinical trials of the drug for preventing and treating Covid-19. The World Health Organization halted all its trials involving hydroxychloroquine due to the concerns raised in the study about its efficacy and safety. It was once viewed as among the most promising medicines to treat the virus, though no study to date has found this to be the case, and the drug can have toxic side-effects. The Australian Department of Health had been stockpiling millions of doses of the drug in case clinical trials found it proved useful.

The study, led by the Brigham and Women’s Hospital Center for Advanced Heart Disease in Boston, examined patients in hospitals around the world, including in Australia. It said researchers gained access to data from five hospitals recording 600 Australian Covid-19 patients and 73 Australian deaths as of 21 April.

But data from Johns Hopkins University shows only 67 deaths from Covid-19 had been recorded in Australia by 21 April. The number did not rise to 73 until 23 April. The data relied upon by researchers to draw their conclusions in the Lancet is not readily available in Australian clinical databases, leading many to ask where it came from.

The federal health department confirmed to Guardian Australia that the data collected on notifications of Covid-19 in the National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance System was not the source for informing the trial.

Guardian Australia also contacted the health departments of Australia’s two most populous states, New South Wales and Victoria, which have had by far the largest number of Covid-19 infections between them. Of the Australian deaths reported by 21 April, 14 were in Victoria and 26 in NSW.

Victoria’s department confirmed the study’s results relating to the Australian data did not reconcile with the state’s coronavirus data, including hospital admissions and deaths. The NSW Department of Health also confirmed it did not provide the researchers with the data for its databases.

The Lancet told Guardian Australia: “We have asked the authors for clarifications, we know that they are investigating urgently, and we await their reply.” The lead author of the study, Dr Mandeep Mehra, said he had contacted Surgisphere, the company that provided the data, to reconcile the discrepancies with “the utmost urgency”. Surgisphere is described as a healthcare data analytics and medical education company.

In a statement, Surgisphere founder Dr Sapan Desai, also an author on the Lancet paper, said a hospital from Asia had accidentally been included in the Australian data.

“We have reviewed our Surgisphere database and discovered that a new hospital that joined the registry on April 1, and self-designated as belonging to the Australasia continental designation,” the spokesman said. “In reviewing the data from each of the hospitals in the registry, we noted that this hospital had a nearly 100% composition of Asian race and a relatively high use of chloroquine compared to non-use in Australia. This hospital should have more appropriately been assigned to the Asian continental designation.”

He said the error did not change the overall study findings. It did mean that the Australian data in the paper would be revised to four hospitals and 63 deaths,.

Dr Allen Cheng, an epidemiologist and infectious disease doctor with Alfred Health in Melbourne, said the Australian hospitals involved in the study should be named. He said he had never heard of Surgisphere, and no one from his hospital, The Alfred, had provided Surgisphere with data.

“Usually to submit to a database like Surgisphere you need ethics approval, and someone from the hospital will be involved in that process to get it to a database,” he said. He said the dataset should be made public, or at least open to an independent statistical reviewer.

“If they got this wrong, what else could be wrong?” Cheng said. It was also a “red flag” to him that the paper listed only four authors.

“Usually with studies that report on findings from thousands of patients, you would see a large list of authors on the paper,” he said. “Multiple sources are needed to collect and analyse the data for large studies and you usually see that acknowledged in the list of authors.”

He stressed that even if the paper proved to be problematic, it did not mean hydroxychloroquine was safe or effective in treating Covid-19. No strong studies to date have shown the drug is effective. Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have potentially severe and even deadly side effects if used inappropriately, including heart failure and toxicity. Other studies have found the drug is associated with higher mortality when given to severely unwell Covid-19 patients.

In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.

“This requirement allows us to only maintain collaborations with top-tier institutions that are supported by the level of data-integrity and sophistication required for such work,” the statement said. “Naturally, this leads to the inclusion of institutions that have a tertiary care level of practice and provide quality healthcare that is relatively homogenous around the world. As with most corporations, the access to individual hospital data is strictly governed. Our data use agreements do not allow us to make this data public.”

Scientists have reiterated the need to wait for the results from rigorous randomised control trials, considered the gold standard of science, and the Australian Department of Health has warned the drug should not be given to patients other than in clinical trials.

Cheng said it would be a mistake to stop strong, well-designed clinical trials examining the drug because of questionable data. The Lancet study findings have prompted the leaders of an Australian hydroxychloroquine trial, known as the Ascot trial, to review the future of their study. The outcome of that review has not yet been announced.

The Ascot study has been recruiting patients in more than 70 hospitals in every Australian state and territory, and 11 hospitals in New Zealand. The randomised control trial is exploring whether hydroxychloroquine in combination or on its own can treat Covid-19 patients and prevent deterioration in their condition. The leader of the trial, Prof Josh Davis, has written to the Lancet study authors asking for an explanation of the data.

In the meantime, patient recruitment for the study had been put on hold, an Ascot spokeswoman said. “Following an observational study published in the Lancet Ascot has paused patient recruitment pending deliberations by the governance and ethics committees overseeing the trial,” she said. “We expect these deliberations to occur rapidly and will provide further information as they arise.”

Questions about the paper’s statistical modelling have also come from other universities, including Columbia University in the US, prompting Surgisphere to issue a public statement.

Last month Australia’s chief scientist, Dr Alan Finkel, urged the public to be cautious about findings and interpretations from studies in the race to find cures and treatments for Covid-19.

Serious concerns have being raised by bioethicists, clinicians and scientists that scientific rigour and peer review is falling by the wayside in the race to understand how the virus spreads and why it has such a devastating impact on some people.
 
Sorry, there's no simple yes/no, as it's situationally dependent. If everyone kept 6 feet apart, there'd be no need for masks, but that's not realistic in our world, so the masks are necessary for when people are closer than 6 feet. In a sense, then, I would say the masks are more important, at least where people can't avoid close contact, like mass transit, shops, restaurants and such. Just google Japan or South Korea and subways and masks and you'll see nearly everyone wearing masks, since it's impossible to keep more than a foot or two away at times. I do agree that people wearing masks tend to ignore social distancing more.
https://www.sciencenewsforstudents....19-6-feet-social-distancing-not-always-enough

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/s...avel-nearly-20-feet-study/article31687126.ece

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

"The principle is viral exposure over an extended period of time. In all these cases, people were exposed to the virus in the air for a prolonged period (hours). Even if they were 50 feet away (choir or call center), even a low dose of the virus in the air reaching them, over a sustained period, was enough to cause infection and in some cases, death."

"Social distancing rules are really to protect you with brief exposures or outdoor exposures. In these situations there is not enough time to achieve the infectious viral load when you are standing 6 feet apart or where wind and the infinite outdoor space for viral dilution reduces viral load. The effects of sunlight, heat, and humidity on viral survival, all serve to minimize the risk to everyone when outside."
 
BTW, this author admits he is a lefty and yet this is what he thinks of Lancet study. There is no way any decisions should have been made on the results of that study.

https://melwy.com/blog/lancet-paper...ped-real-world-data-should-not-be-a-black-box

The use of Real World Evidence in Covid-19 is growing, and that’s a good thing. Properly implemented, RWE has the potential to deliver solid results faster than Randomized Controlled Trials, as I explained in a previous blog post.

So I couldn’t miss the largest observational study published to date on the effects of (hydroxy-)chloroquine, in 96 032 hospitalised Covid-19 patients, from an international registry comprising 671 hospitals in six continents:

Mehra, M. R., Desai, S. S., Ruschitzka, F., & Patel, A. N. (2020). ‘Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis’. The Lancet.

Unfortunately, this paper is an example of Real World Evidence and Big Data implemented in the wrong way. Data is powerful, but not a magic bullet, and this kind of low-quality literature is my inspiration for launching the COVIND Consortium of Individual Patient Data.

0*-YO-pbUhyptgO8u8.png


In this Lancet piece, I identified 3 flaws:

  • No reproducibility
  • No data traceability
  • No review transparency
No reproducibility
First, this study is not reproducible. Authors did not release their data, and it’s not even in their plans:

0*P6_KWPSheIaOrGbI.jpeg


They argue legal pretexts, but it’s still a bad professional practice. Their data is a black box. In terms of reproducibility, this paper doesn’t meet community standardswe have in machine learning, where most authors release their data and code on GitHub, and sometimes even build a ready-made container for one-click reproducibility on Google AI Hub, or other cloud platforms.

As expected, this data secrecy implies some weird stuff. For example, some critics, like in this blog from Columbia University, noted more deaths in this Lancet paper than reported by Australian authorities. Are Australian authorities hiding something, or did Lancet authors fabricated data for their cherished conclusion? I trust Australian authorities more.

A lot of other issues spill around in this crazy dataset, here and elsewhere. Garbage in, garbage out.

No data traceability
This Lancet paper also has no data traceability. Authors didn’t release the names of people who were responsible for data collection at hospitals. That’s the second black box. The paper only has 4 co-authors (ridiculously small for medical literature standards), and only one person was responsible for data acquisition: Sapan S Desai. How could he curate a huge dataset of 96 032 patients alone, so quickly? Is his company Surgisphere magical? Surgisphere only has 6 employees on LinkedIn.That’s insane.

0*O1gxl8m7A9nwAXBy.jpg


Surgisphere claims to be “a leader in healthcare data analytics”, but their LinkedIn posts only have 1 like (a self-like!), and their oldest post is 2-months old. This bold and shady company seems a bit early-stage for leadership claims. It’s not the Google of health data.

0*tDxoN1fimj09I96O.jpg


  • My tip to Sapan Desai: next time, pepper with fake LinkedIn profiles, and fake likes. It could be useful for growth hacking.
Why didn’t doctors and their labs try to stick their names on this prestigious Lancet paper? So many grants and tenures missed.

As a comparison, in particle physics, the important paper discovering the Higgs Boson particle at the Large Hadron Collider has 5,154 co-authors.

0*f0DuJ3CmptQQbCKT.jpeg


At COVIND data consortium, we are building a network of local doctors, who are also scientific partners. They put their names on all papers where their data is involved. They often tell me that’s their first condition for collaborating. That is not only to acknowledge their scholarly contribution. Their signature is also a public endorsement of the dataset they release, and a key link in the data traceability chain. That’s important when raw identified data is inaccessible for privacy reasons.

0*1s3si8DSon3ZPOJK.png


Of course, mistakes can happen, we are moving fast, but we implemented transparent error-correction procedures.

No review transparency
Lancet did not release the names of the referees (if any). Yet another black box. So the only signed editorial validation comes from Lancet editor-in-chief Richard Horton.

0*KRGP8LP4h2qPSuwQ.jpeg


Richard Horton has an old political conflict with the US President. Donald Trumphappens to be a big fan of Chloroquine, and Trump doesn’t care about Randomized Clinical Trials, and about science in general. Horton is certainly tempted to prove him wrong. In this bestial battle of egos, did Horton feel so insecure as to let a fraudulent submission slip through editorial filters? Oups!

0*S7goFM5kQWRTnBDd.jpeg


Richard Horton published several political rants against Trump in The Lancet:

0*azMTzyGJXaID9w5Y.jpeg


0*ZycrS53NY6gNWwQi.jpeg


I don’t trust Fox News about global warming, so why should I trust The Lancet about Trump-approved Chloroquine? Fake news all around.

0*-KpJ1033Y-zz-gdQ.jpeg


As written elsewhere in The Lancet (I love it as a political outlet, I am left-wing too!): “public health should not be guided by partisan politics”

That’s true both ways.

As a left-wing citizen, I agree with Richard Horton when he says that this pandemic is “the biggest science policy failure in a generation”, but I am surprised he wanted to be a part of it. So ironic.

From the ashes of the Lancet, I am still hopeful that a new era for data-driven medicine will emerge, based on three pillars: reproducibility, traceability and transparency.
 
Although I agree with most of your lengthy answer. The simple answer is social distancing is by far much more important. And it is a simple answer. Situationly if people keep social distancing it blows away the value of a mask. Is that so hard to admit??
Yes it is, because it would interfere with this quest to get everyone to wear masks for some ridiculous reason.
 
Masks indoors and distancing everywhere are good until there's a vaccine. I do have a problem with Governor Murphy who likes to say his decisions are based on science. What science said golf courses needed to be closed? Or groups of 25 are now OK instead of 10 or Walmart and Target can open when limiting the number of customers but Kohls can't or the liquor store on LBI can be open but the T-shirt store can't?

I really feel for the small business owners who are being bankrupted by government policies that are inconsistent and unjustified.
 
South Korea appears to be on the brink of losing containment
Maybe, they are reporting 79 cases today, 40 yesterday, they hadn't had a day over 40 since early April.

Those #'s are higher then they have seen in a while, but their #'s are still better then everywhere else in the world, and it's not even close. If we had those #'s in NJ we'd be declaring it over, heck some are declaring it over and we reported 1400 new cases.

For awhile I've been skeptical that SK would be able to keep this thing in check given how infectious it is, but they've done a fantastic job with it from the beginning. So based on their track record I'm going to predict they are able to reign it back in.
 
Last edited:
On the politics board there was a mention of an increase in Florida deaths due to pneumonia and of course it got political. I want to avoid that if possible so I went to the internet to see if I could find death information for Florida to compare total deaths for each month. I wanted to compare the average for February through April and then May when available to see if there was an increase in 2020 and how accidental deaths were effected.

I was unable to find anything current.
Does anyone know a source I could check?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT