COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

[e5fdny]

This is the kind of childish trolling behavior that gets you booted from threads like this.

@T2Kplus10 is not the one to be concerned about.

Most of the time he posts info and then usually backs it up or reminds the thread the info was good. You might not like the way he does it but there are others ITT who have brought nothing to the table other than nodding yes in their posts or attacking and ganging up on those who don’t agree.

 

[RU-05]

On the politics board there was a mention of an increase in Florida deaths due to pneumonia and of course it got political. I want to avoid that if possible so I went to the internet to see if I could find death information for Florida to compare total deaths for each month. I wanted to compare the average for February through April and then May when available to see if there was an increase in 2020 and how accidental deaths were effected.

I was unable to find anything current.
Does anyone know a source I could check?

http://www.flhealthcharts.com/FLQUERY/Death/DeathCount.aspx

This gives pneumonia deaths by year(up till 2018), and by county.

Though I didn't see anything by month.

2614 pneumonia deaths reported in 2018.

 

[T2Kplus10]

@T2Kplus10 is not the one to be concerned about.

Most of the time he posts info and then usually backs it up or reminds the thread the info was good. You might not like the way he does it but there are others ITT who have brought nothing to the table other than nodding yes in their posts or attacking and ganging up on those who don’t agree.

 

[tom1944]

I found this. That is over 17,000 more deaths due to flu or pneumonia. Are other States seeing that type of increase even though there were 50,000 less overall deaths

In 2018, 485,803 people died in February and March. About 6,120 of those people were classified as having died of influenza or pneumonia.

From Feb. 1 through March 28 of this year, 435,808 people died. About 1,150 were classified as having died of COVID-19, and 23,729 were classified as having died of the flu or pneumonia.

 

[T2Kplus10]

I found this. That is over 17,000 more deaths due to flu or pneumonia. Are other States seeing that type of increase even though there were 50,000 less overall deaths

In 2018, 485,803 people died in February and March. About 6,120 of those people, or 3%, were classified as having died of influenza or pneumonia.

From Feb. 1 through March 28 of this year, 435,808 people died. About 1,150 were classified as having died of COVID-19, and 23,729 were classified as having died of the flu or pneumonia.

There is an overlap in the #'s. Most deaths that are listed as COVID deaths have a different "cause of death" on the certificate. Remember, this is what happened in Italy where 92% of "COVID" deaths had different causes of deaths on their medical records.

 

[Upstream]

@T2Kplus10 is not the one to be concerned about.

Most of the time he posts info and then usually backs it up or reminds the thread the info was good. You might not like the way he does it but there are others ITT who have brought nothing to the table other than nodding yes in their posts or attacking and ganging up on those who don’t agree.

Most of the time? It seems like only some of the time, and maybe rarely.

It seems that "most of the time", he lobs unsubstantiated claims, like claiming the risk of spreading the virus outdoors is practically zero, and then when called out on it he just moves on to his next trolling attempt.

It would be one thing if he didn't understand his claims (like not understanding that although the risk of outdoor spread is lower than indoor spread, that is not the same thing as saying the risk of outdoor spread is practically zero). But I'm pretty sure he is smart enough to understand that he is intentionally spreading misinformation which sows confusion.

His continued trolling greatly diminishes the value of discussion in this thread, which may be his intent.

 

[tom1944]

There is an overlap in the #'s. Most deaths that are listed as COVID deaths have a different "cause of death" on the certificate. Remember, this is what happened in Italy where 92% of "COVID" deaths had different causes of deaths on their medical records.

But if overall deaths drop by 50,000 and combined covid and pneumonia deaths increase by 18,000 isn't that an indication that many of the pneumonia deaths were caused by some unusual circumstance this year and that unusual circumstance would likely be covid?

If it quacks like a duck

 

[RU-05]

When a guy admits he enjoys to troll, I feel the debate as to whether that guy is a troll is not only unnecessary but it continues to derail the thread.

 

[T2Kplus10]

But if overall deaths drop by 50,000 and combined covid and pneumonia deaths increase by 18,000 isn't that an indication that many of the pneumonia deaths were caused by some unusual circumstance this year and that unusual circumstance would likely be covid?

If it quacks like a duck

There is huge overlap in the #'s. Remember, only a fraction of "COVID" death have COVID listed as the actual cause of death. So yes, many of the "pneumonia" deaths are already accounted for in the COVID trackers.

 

[RU-05]

Masks indoors and distancing everywhere are good until there's a vaccine. I do have a problem with Governor Murphy who likes to say his decisions are based on science. What science said golf courses needed to be closed? Or groups of 25 are now OK instead of 10 or Walmart and Target can open when limiting the number of customers but Kohls can't or the liquor store on LBI can be open but the T-shirt store can't?

I really feel for the small business owners who are being bankrupted by government policies that are inconsistent and unjustified.

But you can admit that the overall game plan of limiting interaction is based on good science.

Now we can nit pick the details, such as golf courses , liquor stores over t-shirts(though I for one am completely fine with the shaky science on this one), but are these really big issues is the larger picture?

 

[DanRU]

But you can admit that the overall game plan of limiting interaction is based on good science.

Now we can nit pick the details, such as golf courses , liquor stores over t-shirts(though I for one am completely fine with the shaky science on this one), but are these really big issues is the larger picture?

It's not a big issue to me. I golf once every 2 years and I'm still working but it is a big issue to the business owners and employees. I work for a county welfare office and I talk to people on a regular basis who can't work because of these policies which are hurting many.

 

[RU-05]

It's not a big issue to me. I golf once every 2 years and I'm still working but it is a big issue to the business owners and employees. I work for a county welfare office and I talk to people on a regular basis who can't work because of these policies which are hurting many.

Are you talking about the differences between the liquor store owner and the "t-shirt" business owner?

 

[tom1944]

It's not a big issue to me. I golf once every 2 years and I'm still working but it is a big issue to the business owners and employees. I work for a county welfare office and I talk to people on a regular basis who can't work because of these policies which are hurting many.

I have great concern for the small business owner and wish they could be open but I also understand that if we did not take these drastic steps and covid spread unabated than these small businesses would have seen a drastic impact and many still would have been hurt.

I don't believe it is fair to just assume it was only the government shutdown that hurt them and things would have been smooth sailing if we just went on our merry way

 

[RU-05]

I will say our #'s are getting to the point where Murphy needs to open things up.

We do have to balance the Covid vs economy considerations, and given the graphs vs the toll on the economy, it looks very weighted toward opening.

 

[RobertG]

But you can admit that the overall game plan of limiting interaction is based on good science.

Now we can nit pick the details, such as golf courses , liquor stores over t-shirts(though I for one am completely fine with the shaky science on this one), but are these really big issues is the larger picture?

I don't think that is nit picking or details as each area you open represents less strain on the economy. And no I don't think the overall game plan is based on good science it was based on logical inference with a lot of politics thrown in.

 

[albanyknight]

It’s you're,*** you’re an idiot. Plenty of people with other symptoms don’t have fevers, plenty of people are asymptomatic. It’s a good law. You hate masks you hate gloves, you know the virus cycle for every virus and know they’re all the same and are an award winning beer guy. You really are a renaissance man. Maybe listen to the people who know what they’re talking about. You don’t see doctor fauci telling you how to make or sell your beer

White Bus is clearly one angry guy and at a time when tolerance and empathy are needed most. I lost count of how many people he called stupid and clueless.

Congrats. You and a few others are rapidly devolving this thread.

 

[tom1944]

I don't think that is nit picking or details as each area you open represents less strain on the economy. And no I don't think the overall game plan is based on good science it was based on logical inference with a lot of politics thrown in.

As per politics NJ's budget situation was going great into February. Murphy was going to have an easy budget with extra money to put towards certain obligations.

He had no way to know that shutting down would be good for him politically and in fact the assumption logically would have been it would have hurt him.

For that reason I believe that people who place political motivation on Murphy are misguided.

 

[e5fdny]

White Bus is clearly one angry guy and at a time when tolerance and empathy are needed most. I lost count of how many people he called stupid and clueless.

Congrats. You and a few others are rapidly devolving this thread.

At least in @WhiteBus ’s case (as described by him) he’s having a tough go of it.

Not of fan of his approach either sometimes. But he is dealing with a lot more than most of us here. If this gets him thru the day, so be it.

 

[albanyknight]

At least in @WhiteBus ’s case (as described by him) he’s having a tough go of it.

Not of fan of his approach either sometimes. But he is dealing with a lot more than most of us here. If this gets him thru the day, so be it.

How do you know? Just because everyone is not giving a blow-by-blow description of their lives does not mean that they aren't w/o their challenges.

My wife is a front-line worker who does 10-hour shifts with a mask on. We spend all week running back and forth taking care of my 92-year old mom who lives in an apartment building.

I already know two people who are dead from this.

So now have I earned the right to call people clueless, stupid and tell fellow posters to STFU?

 

[tom1944]

How do you know? Just because everyone is not giving a blow-by-blow description of their lives does not mean that they aren't w/o their challenges.

My wife is a front-line worker who does 10-hour shifts with a mask on. We spend all week running back and forth taking care of my 92-year old mom who lives in an apartment building.

I already know two people who are dead from this.

So now have I earned the right to call people clueless, stupid and tell fellow posters to STFU?

Only T2Knottheflu

 

[RobertG]

As per politics NJ's budget situation was going great into February. Murphy was going to have an easy budget with extra money to put towards certain obligations.

He had no way to know that shutting down would be good for him politically and in fact the assumption logically would have been it would have hurt him.

For that reason I believe that people who place political motivation on Murphy are misguided.

The shutdown itself was not political, what was classified as essential businesses and what was not was in part political.

 

[RUkrazy89]

This thread is quickly disintegrating into a political BS thread. There are some quality posts sandwiched between the rehashing the discussion about the efficacy of HCQ (over and over and over) and arguing about how numbers are presented by the left or right. Would be great if this was a thread for factual posts only...

 

[tom1944]

The shutdown itself was not political, what was classified as essential businesses and what was not was in part political.

I really believe he listened to health professionals. When you say political do you mean because large stores that sell groceries as well as other products were open but stores that sell those same items but not groceries were closed?

I mean he did not close gyms for political reasons

 

[DanRU]

Are you talking about the differences between the liquor store owner and the "t-shirt" business owner?

As far as small business owners, I'm basing my opinion on news reports since I don't generally see them at my job. I'm more likely to encounter low level employees who work off the books and aren't eligible for unemployment and can't work because of selective policies in re-opening businesses.
I'm not saying there shouldn't have been a shut down initially. Nobody knew what we were dealing with and packing hospitals was a legitimate concern as was the amount of deaths. My point was these policies are allowing some to open and others not when the restrictions placed on open businesses can easily be applied to others. edit: and yes, the liquor store owner and the t shirt business are an example.

 

[tom1944]

This thread is quickly disintegrating into a political BS thread. There are some quality posts sandwiched between the rehashing the discussion about the efficacy of HCQ (over and over and over) and arguing about how numbers are presented by the left or right. Would be great if this was a thread for factual posts only...

How about also for questions?

 

[tom1944]

As far as small business owners, I'm basing my opinion on news reports since I don't generally see them at my job. I'm more likely to encounter low level employees who work off the books and aren't eligible for unemployment and can't work because of selective policies in re-opening businesses.
I'm not saying there shouldn't have been a shut down initially. Nobody knew what we were dealing with and packing hospitals was a legitimate concern as was the amount of deaths. My point was these policies are allowing some to open and others not when the restrictions placed on open businesses can easily be applied to others.

I think we should get a clear message on why certain decisions on what is allowed to open and why and what is not at this time.

I have not followed his press conferences to know if he does that

 

[RU848789]

Most of the time? It seems like only some of the time, and maybe rarely.

It seems that "most of the time", he lobs unsubstantiated claims, like claiming the risk of spreading the virus outdoors is practically zero, and then when called out on it he just moves on to his next trolling attempt.

It would be one thing if he didn't understand his claims (like not understanding that although the risk of outdoor spread is lower than indoor spread, that is not the same thing as saying the risk of outdoor spread is practically zero). But I'm pretty sure he is smart enough to understand that he is intentionally spreading misinformation which sows confusion.

His continued trolling greatly diminishes the value of discussion in this thread, which may be his intent.

Well said. His standard troll MO is to deflect and confuse people and to get them arguing about mostly trivial points and especially politics, with the ultimate intent of having the mods move this thread to the CE board, where it will die. He's done that for many threads in the past - the mods don't want a CE-board style pissing match on the football board, especially in a pinned thread and I understand that, as this is their business. The quality of this thread has certainly gone downhill since he became active in it and now a few others are starting with the bickering and name-calling and that doesn't help either.

It will be a shame if he's successful, since quite a few folks appreciate the original intent of the thread of informing people about coronavirus science, risks and impacts. It's easy to argue that people shouldn't be coming to a football message board to get such info and guidance, but many do, as they find it convenient, since they're here anyway and know there are quite a few posters here doing their best to provide that info - even if it's conflicting sometimes, which is unavoidable in such an uncertain, volatile and changing situation - and this topic is just a little bit more important than the average OT thread.

 

[RobertG]

I really believe he listened to health professionals. When you say political do you mean because large stores that sell groceries as well as other products were open but stores that sell those same items but not groceries were closed?

I mean he did not close gyms for political reasons

Construction on Affordable housing was allowed but not other construction Abortions were allowed other medical procedures were not.

 

[RUhasarrived]

66 new deaths today.

 

[tom1944]

Construction on Affordable housing was allowed but not other construction Abortions were allowed other medical procedures were not.

Was construction really stopped. There were 5 houses in my neighborhood with construction being done.

Abortion is an issue with having to wait were medical procedures stopped that had to be done immediately or was elective surgery put off that could be done later with no risk to the patient?

 

[DanRU]

Was construction really stopped. There were 5 houses in my neighborhood with construction being done.

Abortion is an issue with having to wait were medical procedures stopped that had to be done immediately or was elective surgery put off that could be done later with no risk to the patient?

The order was construction must stop unless it was for affordable housing. Many contractors ignored it and I don't blame them.

 

[tom1944]

The order was construction must stop unless it was for affordable housing. Many contractors ignored it and I don't blame them.

Are you sure? Keeping Home Depot and Lowes open kind of flies in the face of that

 

[tom1944]

Gov. Phil Murphy ordered Wednesday that all non-essential construction in New Jersey must stop by Friday at 8 p.m. in the latest escalation of his lockdown restrictions to battle the coronavirus pandemic.

Murphy included exemptions for construction projects that involve hospitals, schools, affordable housing, transportation, utility work, emergency repairs and individual housing sites that can continue to operate under strict social distancing guidelines.

So he did not close all construction except affordable housing.

 

[RU-05]

As far as small business owners, I'm basing my opinion on news reports since I don't generally see them at my job. I'm more likely to encounter low level employees who work off the books and aren't eligible for unemployment and can't work because of selective policies in re-opening businesses.
I'm not saying there shouldn't have been a shut down initially. Nobody knew what we were dealing with and packing hospitals was a legitimate concern as was the amount of deaths. My point was these policies are allowing some to open and others not when the restrictions placed on open businesses can easily be applied to others. edit: and yes, the liquor store owner and the t shirt business are an example.

I think the liquor store vs t-shirt business is a good example to discuss.

Clearly liquor stores are not essential. Certainly no more essential then t-shirts, but if we agree that closing non essentials for a time period was the correct move, then the T-shirt guy was going to close anyway. Also closing liquor stores doesn't help the t-shirt guy, it may be a stick in the craw of the t-shirt guy, but it would not have helped the the t-shirt guy or the economy as a whole, in fact in terms of the latter it would have only further crippled it.

So yeah, optically, it doesn't make sense, but it's a relatively small detail in this debate, and as someone who likes to drink beer, I'm fine that the Murphy was not strictly by the science on this point.

 

[RUevolution36]

Gov. Phil Murphy ordered Wednesday that all non-essential construction in New Jersey must stop by Friday at 8 p.m. in the latest escalation of his lockdown restrictions to battle the coronavirus pandemic.

Murphy included exemptions for construction projects that involve hospitals, schools, affordable housing, transportation, utility work, emergency repairs and individual housing sites that can continue to operate under strict social distancing guidelines.

So he did not close all construction except affordable housing.

It was also clarified later that housing construction could continue if there was a contract with legal ramifications if work was not completed by a date. I.e., if building a house that has a buyer and a closing date vs building spec homes and creating quick delivery inventory.

 

[RU-05]

I don't think that is nit picking or details as each area you open represents less strain on the economy. And no I don't think the overall game plan is based on good science it was based on logical inference with a lot of politics thrown in.

You don't think there is solid science behind the idea that if people are not in close contact that they will not spread the virus?

 

[e5fdny]

I think the liquor store vs t-shirt business is a good example to discuss.

Clearly liquor stores are not essential.

So yeah, optically, it doesn't make sense, but it's a relatively small detail in this debate, and as someone who likes to drink beer, I'm fine that the Murphy was not strictly by the science on this point.

They were left open because some people have to have a beer/drink. Like has nothing to do with it. At least that’s how it was explained to us.

That’s what makes them essential.

 

[RU-05]

It was also clarified later that housing construction could continue if there was a contract with legal ramifications if work was not completed by a date. I.e., if building a house that has a buyer and a closing date vs building spec homes and creating quick delivery inventory.

I might be mistaken, but I believe jobs that were in progress, such as an addition, were also able to continue. But only a limited # of persons were allowed to be on the site.

 

[tom1944]

I think the liquor store vs t-shirt business is a good example to discuss.

Clearly liquor stores are not essential. Certainly no more essential then t-shirts, but if we agree that closing non essentials for a time period was the correct move, then the T-shirt guy was going to close anyway. Also closing liquor stores doesn't help the t-shirt guy, it may be a stick in the craw of the t-shirt guy, but it would not have helped the the t-shirt guy or the economy as a whole, in fact in terms of the latter it would have only further crippled it.

So yeah, optically, it doesn't make sense, but it's a relatively small detail in this debate, and as someone who likes to drink beer, I'm fine that the Murphy was not strictly by the science on this point.

I believe health professionals recommended liquor stores stay open so that alcoholics were able to get liquor and not go into withdrawal and need to be hospitalized

 

[RU-05]

They were left open because some people have to have a beer/drink. Like has nothing to do with it. At least that’s how it was explained to us.

Imo the "alcoholic" angle was a cover.

My guess is two considerations were in play here, 1)the general public wants to drink and this was a pacifier of sorts 2)pressure from beer/wine/liquor makers.