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Crushed on the Glass

It's a fake stat.....teams that shoot a lot of jumpers, mean that a 50-50 ball counts as a rebound. It's not like Princeton was crashing the offensive glass getting 3 and 4 opportunities.

You do realize that the team that misses more shots, is likely to get outrebounded?? I would say at least 6 to 7 of those rebounds were after RU missed point blank shots at the basket. If they make more than half of those, there's literally no tangible difference in rebounds.

RU can play more Woolfolk to help Cliff and eventually Mag will factor in for 12 to 16 minutes a game as well, when the real games matter in December and beyond.

The issue is how soon the staff ultimately decides to give Simpson and Davis more of the responsibility to run the offense and let Austin Williams and Fernandes freelance to find shots. Those 4 players are as much responsible for cleaning up rebounds and crashing the glass. The guards have to do more to help Cliff.
 
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It's a fake stat.....teams that shoot a lot of jumpers, mean that a 50-50 ball counts as a rebound. It's not like Princeton was crashing the offensive glass getting 3 and 4 opportunities.

You do realize that the team that misses more shots, is likely to get outrebounded?? I would say at least 6 to 7 of those rebounds were after RU missed point blank shots at the basket. If they make more than half of those, there's literally no tangible difference in rebounds.

RU can play more Woolfolk to help Cliff and eventually Mag will factor in for 12 to 16 minutes a game as well, when the real games matter in December and beyond.

The issue is how soon the staff ultimately decides to give Simpson and Davis more of the responsibility to run the offense and let Austin Williams and Fernandes freelance to find shots. Those 4 players are as much responsible for cleaning up rebounds and crashing the glass. The guards have to do more to help Cliff.

Hawk rebounds are not a “fake stat” lol.

We got dominated on the boards and there’s no excuse for that.

Their 6’7 forward Pierce had 15 rbs compared to a combined 13 rbs for Cliff/Hyatt.

A lot of it was a lack of hustle and determination by Cliff and Hyatt. Had very little to do with the type of shots we took.
 
Hawk rebounds are not a “fake stat” lol.

We got dominated on the boards and there’s no excuse for that.

Their 6’7 forward Pierce had 15 rbs compared to a combined 13 rbs for Cliff/Hyatt.

A lot of it was a lack of hustle and determination by Cliff and Hyatt. Had very little to do with the type of shots we took.

Lol - fake stat. The only arguable “fake” stat is the 4 defensive boards we collected off Princeton’s missed free throws since they didn’t collect any of those to offset.

You want to argue that even those rebounds are real, go for it, I won’t argue. But I will point out that even at the 9U level, if my son has the bottom spot lining up for free throws and fails to secure the defensive board, he’s going to the bench immediately. So there’s that…
 
Hawk rebounds are not a “fake stat” lol.

We got dominated on the boards and there’s no excuse for that.

Their 6’7 forward Pierce had 15 rbs compared to a combined 13 rbs for Cliff/Hyatt.

A lot of it was a lack of hustle and determination by Cliff and Hyatt. Had very little to do with the type of shots we took.
Hawk has a point regarding total rebound stats but we were beat in rebound percentage too.
Please acknowledge we are 1-0 with a healthy Mag
All else equal, probably not. Accounting for butterfly effects in the large universe? Maybe.
 
Judging by my eyes we were outhustled and out positioned in rebounds. We did not get bodies in people resulting in multiple second opportunities for Princeton that translated into very damaging conversions. Our rebounding was scary bad.
 
Hawk has a point regarding total rebound stats but we were beat in rebound percentage too.
Cliff had 2 first half rebounds. Sometimes, total rebounds don’t tell the whole story but in this particular game, it was a glaring problem.
 
Hawk has a point regarding total rebound stats but we were beat in rebound percentage too.

All else equal, probably not. Accounting for butterfly effects in the large universe? Maybe.

Stats aside…if anyone watched the game the other night it was evident we got out rebounded because Princeton was hustling and wanted the ball more.

This is where a set of eyes tell a lot.
 
You do realize that the team that misses more shots, is likely to get outrebounded??

Actually - Princeton technically missed 38 shots (when you include the 4 live ball free throw misses - which you absolutely have to do to entertain the point your trying to make) compared to our 37 missed shots….
 
Cliff had 2 first half rebounds. Sometimes, total rebounds don’t tell the whole story but in this particular game, it was a glaring problem.

Stats aside…if anyone watched the game the other night it was evident we got out rebounded because Princeton was hustling and wanted the ball more.

This is where a set of eyes tell a lot.
Yeah I agree with you. Total rebounds *can* be very misleading. I don't think it was misleading in this case.
 
It's a fake stat.....teams that shoot a lot of jumpers, mean that a 50-50 ball counts as a rebound. It's not like Princeton was crashing the offensive glass getting 3 and 4 opportunities.

You do realize that the team that misses more shots, is likely to get outrebounded?? I would say at least 6 to 7 of those rebounds were after RU missed point blank shots at the basket. If they make more than half of those, there's literally no tangible difference in rebounds.

RU can play more Woolfolk to help Cliff and eventually Mag will factor in for 12 to 16 minutes a game as well, when the real games matter in December and beyond.

The issue is how soon the staff ultimately decides to give Simpson and Davis more of the responsibility to run the offense and let Austin Williams and Fernandes freelance to find shots. Those 4 players are as much responsible for cleaning up rebounds and crashing the glass. The guards have to do more to help Cliff.
Hawk is right yet again he’s been so in point in both sports for a year and half, total change of directory for hawks career. However, that dynamic being true doesn’t mean Rutgers still did not rebound well in this particular game.
if it is a fake stat it wasnt fake that out coach pulled a captain who is the starting 4 after a sequence when Princeton got multiple OREB.

We have too many guys that wait for the ball to come them.
It’s a great point and you have to question pulling your 3rd best rebounder for a few bad bounces on one possession and then have a bad rebounding night as a team.
 
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Hawk has a point regarding total rebound stats but we were beat in rebound percentage too.

All else equal, probably not. Accounting for butterfly effects in the large universe? Maybe.
That question was not for you. Go polleniate (sp?) somewhere
 
It is true that the rebound total does not always tell the whole story, but looking at this game, and where the 50/50 balls went, and who was more likely to recover a rebound that hit the floor, it seems clear that we were out rebounded. I thought this was another manifestation of Princeton hustle and physicality along with the difficulty we had scoring through contact around the basket.
 
Last year we were 72.1% defensive rebounding...middle of the pack

Paul 9.2%
Cam 11.3%
Caleb 13.6
Hyatt 13.3% or Mag 17.0%
Cliff 24.5%

Simpson 6.7% last year
Ferrnandes 8.8% last year
Gavin 10% is a guess
Hyatt 13.3%
Cliff 24.5%
That is only 64.2%

Defensive rebounding is a problem.

This is playing man. Imagine if we play zone!
 
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By Princeton. 44-36. Ouch. And it’s even worse than it looks because we made all our free throws. 4 of our defensive board were off missed free throws…

Lots of focus on missed lay ups but this stat is pretty glaring to me going up against a mid-major. How do we fix it?
In the box score (on TKR/Yahoo Sports site) I’m seeing 34 total rebounds for both teams. Am I looking in the wrong place?
 
Are you saying Mag gets 12 to 16 minutes?

Please acknowledge we are 1-0 with a healthy Mag
Agreed when Mag is fully back he is playing a minimum of 30 minutes a game
Not sure what Hawk has against but at this point based on how he was playing before he got hurt Mag is our best player
Based on game 1 if Palmquist has to play 23 minutes a game we are in for a very long season
 
if it is a fake stat it wasnt fake that out coach pulled a captain who is the starting 4 after a sequence when Princeton got multiple OREB.

We have too many guys that wait for the ball to come them.

And that's based on one game?? LMAO.....I can isolate any basketball game and see that happen 3 to 5 times a half. If a player doesn't capture a rebound, I don't care if that player is pulled for a game and another player is put in.

At the same time, if you do that 5 times a game, you'll have the hodgepodge lineups that you saw vs Princeton and then complain about the same thing, with players put into different roles. If 3 players miss a box out and your happy with them sitting on the bench, that's fine....but how is the player supposed to correct the mistake, if he's sitting next to Coach TJ and Knight??

There's a weird level of fans seemingly married to playing rock-fight basketball in the 50s and then turning around asking why the team never improves on offense. There's no perfect basketball player.....players that typically can rebound at a high level, can't usually playmake, dribble, shoot or pass.....players that are used to shooting and scoring, usually arrive in college never being asked to box out, rebound, defend.

It's as if no one wants to see someone improve or develop, if a limited player can't defend, sit him down......if a player has no realistic offensive skills, then the coaching is bad and doesn't run an offense......Rinse/repeat.

Better players do things faster than average players do, over an extended period of time.
 
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My stats are based on last year and nothing about this year.

As for me.....I want to see meaningful games in March. I know we have a coach that has done the impossible and has made us in to a winner. I also know rock fight basketball is part of what got us here. Jacob Young went under screens at Oregon. Paul will go under screens at Washington. Rutgers defenders go over screens.

I don't want to go back and have meaningless basketball games to go to.

Yes rock fight can work. We were playing Top 15 basketball until Mag went down. It happened. It wasn't fiction. I saw a bunch of rock fight teams in the Sweet 16.
 
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By Princeton. 44-36. Ouch. And it’s even worse than it looks because we made all our free throws. 4 of our defensive board were off missed free throws…

Lots of focus on missed lay ups but this stat is pretty glaring to me going up against a mid-major. How do we fix it?
It is not a simple answer . Princeton does this to a lot of teams that are more athletic like they did against Arizona and Missouri last year . They play 5 out and our defenders are trying to deny the ball and watch out for back doors . Their guys are cutting and doing so when a shot goes up so they are already ahead of our defenders and have inside position. They hustle to the glass even before shot goes up.
Overall , we are a lousy rebounding team last year and thru 1 game this year. If it wasn’t for Caleb who was a great rebounding guard , no one else helps Cliff. Hyatt and all the guards just do not go after the ball. We stand around. Even if you box out , you are supposed to box out and then go get the ball. If we are lucky enough to box out , we don’t and let someone else get the ball. The reliance on Cliff which started last year has to stop and our damn guards have to crash the glass so they can get the rebound and go. Can be corrected but has been an issue . Harper most games as a really good rebounder helping Myles and Cliff. Hyatt , Oscar are terrible. If Hyatt isn’t going to score he better rebound or he should find himself on the bench. Oscar too. Help the damn team in other ways.
 
By Princeton. 44-36. Ouch. And it’s even worse than it looks because we made all our free throws. 4 of our defensive board were off missed free throws…

Lots of focus on missed lay ups but this stat is pretty glaring to me going up against a mid-major. How do we fix it?
FAKE NEWS. Actual rebound stats were 39 rebounds for Princeton and 35 rebounds for Rutgers.
 
Re: rebounding being a fake stat - Coach Jordan, is that you? Welcome to the forum!

Official boxscore on scarletknights.com says Princeton had 15 offensive rebounds and we had 23 defensive rebounds. That was a problem. Princeton 14 second chance points, Rutgers 11 so that mitigated some of that damage.
 
1 little hole to poke in to Princeton style in making hard to defensive rebound....

They were 195th in the country in offensive rebounding . they rebounded 28.1% of their missed shots last year (this number is not adjusted for their weak schedule. They got 39.5% against us.
 
Re: rebounding being a fake stat - Coach Jordan, is that you? Welcome to the forum!

Official boxscore on scarletknights.com says Princeton had 15 offensive rebounds and we had 23 defensive rebounds. That was a problem. Princeton 14 second chance points, Rutgers 11 so that mitigated some of that damage.
What is 15/38?
 
FAKE NEWS. Actual rebound stats were 39 rebounds for Princeton and 35 rebounds for Rutgers.
Yes - ESPN seems to have adjusted it. Weird.

That said - I wouldn’t exactly say it’s fake news. Princeton should not be outrebounding us whether by 4 or 8 rebounds. This is where we should always dominate against mid majors
 
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you took it an extra decimal point looking to get style points.
I am an engineer. How many significant digits are meaningful in this stat? I had an engineering professor at RU that would've said call it 40%, you're an engineer, not a math major, close enough.
 
Rebounding is about heart and anticipation That’s why some 6’5” player outboards that 6’9” guy. Woolfolk should be a constant 9-10 per game .Cliff needs to get his 11+ every night..
 
I am an engineer. How many significant digits are meaningful in this stat? I had an engineering professor at RU that would've said call it 40%, you're an engineer, not a math major, close enough.
Let's go with 1 decimal space...with 40 potential rebounds to be had every 5th game we could get 1 wrong by not going 1 extra spot.

How does that sound?
 
Judging by my eyes we were outhustled and out positioned in rebounds. We did not get bodies in people resulting in multiple second opportunities for Princeton that translated into very damaging conversions. Our rebounding was scary bad.
To be honest, we looked like we had practiced for about two weeks. We played hard, I'll give them that. Pike's teams always play hard, but that's not nearly enough. I know it has become taboo to mention them, but Paul and Cam were the two most fundamentally sound players we had, and both of them were pretty sound fundamentally before they even got to Rutgers.
 
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The two Rutgers misses most are Caleb and Paul only because they almost automatically together make us an NCAA tourney team.
 
So much negativity after one game. We sucked from 3 point range and that was partially because princeton played great defense and didn’t let us get good looks. Secondly our new run and gun offense was not the right approach for the Princeton game. There was no flow to it whatsoever and we were sloppy with the ball. They made their 3s whenever we threatened and out hustled us for loose balls.

We have to get our shooters the ball for good shots. Gavin, Noah, Hyatt and Oscar can all get hot from the outside. Davis and Simpson should be driving to the hoop and kicking the ball to spread the floor. Cliff and Woolf will be better in the post. Cliff should not be wasting possessions with 3 point shots. You can take those when we have significant leads. Mag is going to be a huge help when he returns. Not sure of Ogboles contributions? The kid we really could use now is Jeremiah Williams.

Again, we lost to a good team. Most other big 10 teams played cupcakes to open the season. MSUs loss was alot worse than ours.

Looking forward to Friday.
 
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