Derkack needs to get benched
- Thread starter red sail
- Start date
He could work very hard, and I actually feel bad for him, he is just too slow for this level.
Isn’t too slow. More athletic and quicker than Mulcahy. The issue is, he has no judgment, no handle, is a poor passer and can’t shoot. Other than those minor shortcomings, he’s fantastic.
Dribbles into traffic and hopes get fouled
The offense flowed much better without him on the floor tonight. He's inconsequential to team defense, boxing out, rebounding, and lazy to get back on D when he doesn't get calls that go his way. I'll stand by my assessment that he's a selfish player on both ends of the court. Sit him the rest of the year and let him hit the portal.
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As John Wooden said, don’t confuse activity for achievement. He works hard but doesn’t have enough talent.
I think the kid is athletic, quick, hustles, has hops and can run but needs to translate those abilities into basketball play. He has poor form on shots, poor judgment on when to shoot and when to pass, finishes poorly at the rim, inconsistent at the FT line and needs to move better without ball and when guarding man without ball.
He’s a flawed player but has ability you can’t teach and needs to improve abilities you can.
Let’s see if this sends a message and resets his mindset to earn mins.
GO RU
He’s a flawed player but has ability you can’t teach and needs to improve abilities you can.
Let’s see if this sends a message and resets his mindset to earn mins.
GO RU
Bottom line if someone needs to force offensive action I want it to be an offensive star, not an NEC step up. I haven’t seen that many triple pump fakes since middle school. P5 D1 defenders are just itching to block his shot … and often do (he might be on pace to set a record for having shots blocked per minute).
Again I like his hustle and can really see his all around game skills and how they translated to a stud level player in the NEC (players are there and not the P5 for a reason). He certainly can contribute given his skill set, toughness, and motor… but he’s not ever going to be a star at this level and needs to defer to the guys that are.
Again I like his hustle and can really see his all around game skills and how they translated to a stud level player in the NEC (players are there and not the P5 for a reason). He certainly can contribute given his skill set, toughness, and motor… but he’s not ever going to be a star at this level and needs to defer to the guys that are.
The kid is a basketball player and should be able to contribute with his toughness and hustle…. I don’t understand why he’s permitted to play the way he does.
In fairness, with Dylan sick and Ace hot and cold, there were times when hoping Jordan would draw foul in penetration was our best offense.
In terms of overall fundamental basketball skills (dribbling, catching, passing, FTs and shooting), as terrible Derkack is, Myles J #15 was far worse, as were most 5s. Myles was a defensive space eater and adequate rebounder. Am not sure if those traits make him a better basketball player. He was an afterthought on O here and 100% excluded at UCLA and mostly not allowed to touch the ball in the front court there.
This is a good and accurate assessment of his game. Not sure why the staff can’t make tweaks to his game, teach him to limit his bad drives and shots, maybe they have been trying to get that message to him and he is not listening. That would explain the benching. The guy has assets that can help, but he has plenty of liabilities as well.
Think it just takes time. He’ll be really valuable next year.
comment is over the top.
Others have said that he’s allowed to do too much (totally agree) but there’s a place for his aggression and hustle (for a team that horribly lacks both!!!!)
If channeled correctly this kid could be a solid consistent contributor. Already the kid is a solid contributor (at times), it’s the consistent part that needs a lot of work
IF he plays again, he CAN NOT bring up the ball it sticks to his hands like glue. Defensive stopper if needed. Grab some boards , get rid of it.
Our fans forget - Jordan was picked up after we signed both Acuff and Martini. He has 2 more years of eligibility after this one and was in no way expected to be a plug and play. He beat out the others for PT fair and square (in some cases due to injury) but regardless the plan was never for him to play as much as he has this year. In my view, he’s the only one of the transfers who has lived up to, if not exceeded, what could’ve been reasonably hoped from them this year at the time they were brought here. Tough crowd.
Let me add - this kid shows Pike potential defense. He previously played in an l zone system so there’s a learning curve but his ceiling on that end in terms of our program is high. He was a good pick up. The last guy anyone should be complaining about.
Let me add - this kid shows Pike potential defense. He previously played in an l zone system so there’s a learning curve but his ceiling on that end in terms of our program is high. He was a good pick up. The last guy anyone should be complaining about.
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From the 19-21 squads, Myles isn’t the guy you’re picking for 1 on 1. But college bball isn’t 1 on 1. He was the backbone of those teams. If he was in foul trouble, those teams were far worse.
If he would accept the role of playing 6-8 minutes spread between 2-3 times of subbing in, and committing those minutes to going all out on defense - that could be positive value for the team.
But there has to be a desire to accept that role. Listening to some of his interviews during the season, he likes to talk about upperclassman leadership, etc. it’s like he has a chip on his shoulder of him being an upperclassman so the freshman should be deferring to him. I’m sure that makes sense at Merrimack and even some Rutgers teams of the past. That makes zero sense this season and we just have to look at the numbers. He’s shot 25% from 3 for 3 seasons. That’s a negative value shot. He can’t convert at the rim at this level either. He needs to kick it out.
So far he doesn’t seem to get it, but if his mindset changes to accept the role above, then it would be great for him and the team.
Sorry but the things you’ve posted about him offer a completely unfair take on the kid. The worst Rutgers player ever? Huh?
1) He’s attempted 61 free throws this season. For perspective - that’s second on the team after Dylan - Ace plays 10 more mpg than him and has only taken 60 FTs. This is not a fluke. Jordan is good at getting to the line and that’s not “nothing”. Again - he’s a sophomore in terms of eligibility.
2) Your making it out like he routinely chucks 3s. That’s not true either - actually kind of the opposite. He’s taken 27 threes on the season. Most of the time when he takes a wide open 3 and misses he refrains from taking any more (10 times this season). He’s actually only taken more than 2 threes in a game three times this year. In one of those games (ND) he was 2-5 and dropped 16 points. He was 0-3 the next game against Alabama so it kind of makes sense that he came out firing a bit there following the prior game. The only other game was Merrimack where he was 1-3. Actually, he only even attempted more than one pointer in three other games. OSU (he was 2-2 so can’t be upset about those shots), he was 1-2 against Wisconsin, and the only time he was 0-2 was Princeton. I wouldn’t call taking one 3 a game on 23 mpg anything close to what you said.
3) Similar story on 2s. He’s only recorded 87 total shots on the season and 12 of them were in the ND game where he had a career day. He’s only averaging 5 shots in each of the other games in 23 mpg which seems like the right amount to keep a D honest (combined with being a threat to draw fouls),
I’m not saying he’s great - but he’s been far from awful all around. We’re not losing because of him. He wasn’t expected to be a good outside shooter.
So is he the worst player in 25 years or is he a player that could be “great for the team” if he modifies his game somewhat?
Totally agree.
Yes he absolutely needs to stop the forced drives 1000%!!!
But the kid does a lot correct. He is not a great shooter but he is hardly a chucker (you are spot on in your critique). The kid draws a LOT of fouls… and that is a very good skill. He hustles. He tries harder Han every kid on this team. He is not even close to being the biggest problem. He wasn’t expected to contribute much but absolutely does.
He makes a few key adjustments to his game and he could be a very solid glue guy.
I don’t get it. He should attempt to offer leadership to the freshman. He came in with two full prior years of D1 experience as a starter which comes as a premium on this roster. Martini was supposed to offer that but Martini has been a far bigger disappointment (not even close). Jordan has been the one out there more with the frosh as it’s turned out - just because he’s trying to offer leadership does not mean he thinks he should be taking all the shots.
This. At start of season without having seen him play, wasn’t expecting much from a kid who played well at lower level and was now making a serious jump in weight class. When I saw him get serious burn to start the season I was impressed with his physical abilities and dog mentally while his shortcomings were there but not yet obvious. After half of season play, it become obvious that he wasn’t playing winning basketball and had to be benched for a reset while new players with better efficiencies were allotted his mins. Kudos to Pike and staff. Kid got a whole half season of serious mins experience and should be clear on things he needs to improve to play at this level and get back on the court.
GO RU
You’re leaving out the most important part of my statement - worst player that plays this many minutes. And yes slight hyperbole (Courtney Nelson worse?), but not much, and it’s based on how he plays now. Can he be of some value if he changes the way he plays completely? Of course. I’m not comping him to a souf Mensah who didn’t play at all.
You guys keep leaving out, worse that plays this many minutes..
Anyway, the results speak for themselves. If you want to rationalize shooting 22% from 3 this season isn’t bad bc he doesn’t shoot many, you can go ahead. At this point in the season, for someone who plays as much as he has, the percentages are the percentages. He should shoot zero 3s. By your logic, you would’ve been ok if Cliff shot 3-4 3s per game last year.
He typically takes 1 three a game - not 3-4. So I’m not sure where you are getting that logic from. I don’t want him or Cliff taking that many. Not their game.
Junior year Andre Hyatt (similar minutes). You think he was a materially better contributor than him? Jordan gets the same number of rebounds. More steals and way more assists. He’s a much better defender than Hyatt was as a junior. Hyatt’s shooting percentage was a little better but Jordan’s also drawing all those fouls that get opponents into foul trouble - yes, he forces too much a la Tez, but you can’t just disregard that he actually gets to the line often. Thats a big thing even if the efficiency numbers don’t reflect it (getting guys in foul trouble impacts the game - you have to draw fouls to do that). He already took more FTs than Hyatt took that whole season.
Derkack the worst Rutgers player ever who got that many minutes? That's nuts.
Here are some season stat lines for players just on Pike's rosters with 20+ min and sub .300 3P%, with names removed:
26.0 min, 8.3 pts (.305 FG%, .282 3P%, .864 FT%), 3.2 rb, 2.9 ast, 1.4 stl, 1.5 tov, 1.3 pf (25 starts)
23.3 min, 8.3 pts (.390 FG%, .216 3P%, .776 FT%), 4.1 rb, 0.9 ast, 0.8 stl, 1.2 tov, 1.6 pf (6 starts)
23.1 min, 5.6 pts (.371 FG%, .222 3P%, .522 FT%), 3.1 rb, 1.9 ast, 1.1 stl, 1.3 tov, 1.0 pf (14 starts)
22.9 min, 8.5 pts (.376 FG%, .239 3P%, .556 FT%), 2.9 rb, 1.1 ast, 0.7 stl, 1.3 tov, 1.8 pf (22 starts)
22.9 min, 5.7 pts (.317 FG%, .204 3P%, .800 FT%), 4.3 rb, 1.6 ast, 1.5 stl, 0.9 tov, 2.4 pf (8 starts)
22.8 min, 7.0 pts (.356 FG%, .222 3P%, .721 FT%), 3.9 rb, 2.4 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.6 tov, 2.5 pf (8 starts)
22.6 min, 7.4 pts (.383 FG%, .297 3P%, .661 FT%), 3.5 rb, 1.2 ast, 1.0 stl, 1.0 tov, 1.9 pf (31 starts)
22.3 min, 7.8 pts (.413 FG%, .278 3P%, .667 FT%), 3.1 rb, 1.1 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.9 tov, 2.4 pf (19 starts)
21.4 min, 6.7 pts, (.411 FG%, .280 3P%, .800 FT%), 3.7 rb, 1.5 ast, 0.8 stl, 1.4 tov, 1.6 pf (21 starts)
21.3 min, 8.5 pts (.413 FG%, .277 3P%, .571 FT%), 3.5 rb, 1.2 ast, 1.0 stl, 2.1 tov, 1.5 pf (0 starts)
21.2 min, 8.3 pts (.383 FG%, .297 3P%, .574 FT%), 2.8 rb, 0.8 ast, 0.7 stl, 1.1 tov, 2.4 pf (13 starts)
20.1 min, 7.1 pts, (.374 FG%, .217 3P%, .793 FT%), 1.6 rb, 1.5 ast, 0.8 stl, 0.9 tov, 1.2 pf (6 starts)
There's a clear "worst" in this list?
Here are some season stat lines for players just on Pike's rosters with 20+ min and sub .300 3P%, with names removed:
26.0 min, 8.3 pts (.305 FG%, .282 3P%, .864 FT%), 3.2 rb, 2.9 ast, 1.4 stl, 1.5 tov, 1.3 pf (25 starts)
23.3 min, 8.3 pts (.390 FG%, .216 3P%, .776 FT%), 4.1 rb, 0.9 ast, 0.8 stl, 1.2 tov, 1.6 pf (6 starts)
23.1 min, 5.6 pts (.371 FG%, .222 3P%, .522 FT%), 3.1 rb, 1.9 ast, 1.1 stl, 1.3 tov, 1.0 pf (14 starts)
22.9 min, 8.5 pts (.376 FG%, .239 3P%, .556 FT%), 2.9 rb, 1.1 ast, 0.7 stl, 1.3 tov, 1.8 pf (22 starts)
22.9 min, 5.7 pts (.317 FG%, .204 3P%, .800 FT%), 4.3 rb, 1.6 ast, 1.5 stl, 0.9 tov, 2.4 pf (8 starts)
22.8 min, 7.0 pts (.356 FG%, .222 3P%, .721 FT%), 3.9 rb, 2.4 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.6 tov, 2.5 pf (8 starts)
22.6 min, 7.4 pts (.383 FG%, .297 3P%, .661 FT%), 3.5 rb, 1.2 ast, 1.0 stl, 1.0 tov, 1.9 pf (31 starts)
22.3 min, 7.8 pts (.413 FG%, .278 3P%, .667 FT%), 3.1 rb, 1.1 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.9 tov, 2.4 pf (19 starts)
21.4 min, 6.7 pts, (.411 FG%, .280 3P%, .800 FT%), 3.7 rb, 1.5 ast, 0.8 stl, 1.4 tov, 1.6 pf (21 starts)
21.3 min, 8.5 pts (.413 FG%, .277 3P%, .571 FT%), 3.5 rb, 1.2 ast, 1.0 stl, 2.1 tov, 1.5 pf (0 starts)
21.2 min, 8.3 pts (.383 FG%, .297 3P%, .574 FT%), 2.8 rb, 0.8 ast, 0.7 stl, 1.1 tov, 2.4 pf (13 starts)
20.1 min, 7.1 pts, (.374 FG%, .217 3P%, .793 FT%), 1.6 rb, 1.5 ast, 0.8 stl, 0.9 tov, 1.2 pf (6 starts)
There's a clear "worst" in this list?
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Too much wild swing about this kid. I've been somewhat down on him (his bully ball NEC tactics against smaller and less athletic opponents wouldnt translate to B10 and that turned out correct, and he needed to work on other parts of his game), but he shouldnt be a DNP.
He does have the athleticism to play in the B10. He just needs to learn or be taught his role:
He does have the athleticism to play in the B10. He just needs to learn or be taught his role:
- Not to be an offensive focal point
- Not to drive against trees if any shot clock left
- Never to wave off Dylan when he has the ball
- Never ever loaf on getting back on D.
- Focus on tough man D and becoming as much of a stopper as possible
- Rebound
- Move the ball and dont let it stick
- Be the 50/50 ball winner
- perpetual motion and cutting on O and NOT standing outside and calling for the ball
Lathan, Acuff and J Will all have recorded more shot attempts than Jordan per minute played. I also don’t think it’s true that he’s forcing many shots in situations where the game is on the line and he should be passing. He was awful against Purdue but in fairness, we scored 50 points total and Dylan was completely ineffective due to being ill. It wasn’t a situation where if Jordan had just kicked it out the outcome would’ve been different. Bad game - learn and move on.
your cliff analogy is factually wrong and silly.
first of all Dercack is not shooting 3-4 threes a game, he's averaging less than 2 a game. that is actually a HUGE difference. at least be factual
and comparing Dercack (a guard) shooting 3s is a lot different than Cliff (a 5 with NO OUTSIDE SHOOTING ability = has NO REASON to EVER shoot 3s).
A guard taking the occasional 3 (even if his %s arent good) is approrpriate - particularly if he's wide open (frankly I have no recollection of him forcing a 3). It keeps the defense honest - which allows him to do his pump fake, drive and VERY OFTEN get to the free throw line.
Its the same reason why I dont have a huge issue with Davis (also a guard with poor % shooting 3s) taking the occasional 3 (when wide open).
but Cliff? There is ZERO rationale for him to ever hoist a 3.
your analogy is just silly and exaggerated (3-4 times a game).
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I hate averages. Three point shooting is a streaky thing. He was 2-5 vs ND. He was 2-2 against OSU, and 1-2 vs Wisconsin. Those were three of the six games he played in where he attempted 2 or more shots. There’s nothing wrong with taking them on days your making them at those rates. Even vs Merrimack - 1-3 is respectable.
So quite literally - we’re taking about two times all season where he attempted more than one three in a game and didn’t put up a respectable percentage overall. 0-2 and 0-3 (Princeton and Alabama). Most of the time when he takes a 3, if he misses, he doesn’t attempt any more.
more reason why the "would you have been happy if Cliff took 3-4 threes a game?" question was just ridiculous/ inaccurate.
As Gene Rayburn used to say on Match Game, "This is the definitive answer."
Well said, baby.
It is silly.. just as silly as Derkack shooting 3s!! The absurdity is the entire point.
you’re talking about how many 3s for the mins played. Cliff played 30 mins, Derkack closer to 20. 2 for Derkack would be like 3 for cliff. Cliffs 3pt % is just as bad as Derkacks. The point is that neither should be shooting 3s, that’s how bad Derkack has been from 3 even when wide open.
You say a 5 with no outside shooting should shoot a 3 ever. What about a guard who shoots JUST AS BAD???
Isn’t it even worse that JD is shooting 22% while wide open? What about that says to you that’s a good shot?
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People can play a matching game. I'll give the names in alphabetical and year order:
Jamichael Davis (2023-24) (Fr)
Jordan Derkack (2024-25) (Jr)
Ron Harper Jr (2018-19) (Fr)
Montez Mathis (2018-19) (Fr)
Montez Mathis (2019-20) (So)
Montez Mathis (2020-21) (Jr)
Caleb McConnell (2019-20) (So)
Caleb McConnell (2020-21) (Jr)
Derek Simpson (2022-23) (Fr)
Derek Simpson (2023-24) (So)
Mike Williams (2017-18) (Sr)
Jacob Young (2018-19) (Jr)
I believe all of the guys who aren't still playing in college went on to play at least some level of professional ball.
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Your math isn't mathing.
Derkack has taken just 27 threes in 365 minutes, or 3.0 per 40 minutes. Omoruyi played 26.9 min as a senior... which would work out to 2.0/game, not 3.0/game.
Derkack is also .222 this year and a career .257 over 183 attempts. Cliff was a career .200 in just 35 total attempts (which isn't even enough to get a real %, as a single extra shot made or missed would swing his average from .171 to .229). Similarly, Derkack shoots so infrequently that if made his next 3P bucket, his average would jump to .250 - make two in a row tonight, and it'd jump to .276
Derkack (and Davis) need to take occasional threes as guards to keep defenses honest. Centers don't need to do that.
You're doubling down on an argument that makes no sense and makes it look like you have no idea how the game of basketball works.
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