Do we start the FAB 3 Next year?

[NewJerseyHawk]

As far as Lathan at the 4.....he would have to defend a perimeter player 90% of the time.

Why is that different from defending a 5 from Nebraska, Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin??

Will the opposing 4, going to be able stop Lathan if he cuts from the wing across the lane, catches the ball 8 feet from the basket and Lathan shoots over him, or powers to the basket??

I think everything you and others are locked into, is having a Top 5 nationally ranked defense and that if that player doesn't play to a Top 5 national standard on defense, you have questions.....

My question is, how do we get out of the mid to high 200s in offense, without sacrificing some defense for better offense?? Is that realistic?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It's literally everywhere on this board, Twitter etc.

I was co president of the Mag fan club and i resigned.

My opinion for next year is shaped a little different than most. I don't see Bailey and Harper stepping in being efficient half court offensive players. I would be worried with Jwill, Mag and a center we could have too many positions that are not perimeter threats.

If Mag stepped up his D and defensive rebounding AND Ace and Dylan were half court stars I think there could be room for Mag.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

My question is, how do we get out of the mid to high 200s in offense, without sacrificing some defense for better offense?? Is that realistic?

boom......

where we can have a nice debate is there a path to be #75 on O and top 10 in D and be a top 10 type of team. Not talking about this year, just in general.

I think that is the Pike blueprint AND I think we are going away from that.

 

[goru7]

Hawk , your continuous putting down of MAG is just ridiculous at this point. You were dead wrong about MAG last year and you are going overboard this year judging a guy coming off an ACL tear with a team with a dysfunctional offense that has guards that don’t pass the ball.
Mag has talent offensively and I am sorry you do not see it. He is a glue guy . He is a guy that will cut to the basket and not just stand on the perimeter and he will go to the offensive glass. I do not know why he is not defensive rebounding this year other than some of the time Pike has him guarding the point guard or at the head of the 1/3/1 defense and he is no where near the hoop. But a fully healthy Mag with Dylan finding him on cuts will be an important part of the offense next year and you can bet with Dylan and Ace taking a majority of the shots , MAG will be crashing the offensive boards. He also is a tremendous defensive player and plays great team defense which in your analysis totally ignore and assume someone else will do it. That is shallow reasoning and all because you were proven wrong last year.

Stop the hate on Mag , let the kid be 2 years out from ACL surgery and see if we get the MAG that was really starting to become a force offensively as well as his normal great defense before he got injured , playing with a functional offense of Dylan and Jeremiah orchestrating the offense. On a good team , which with Ace and Dylan , we will be good to very good , watch how important the glue guys are to the chemistry of the team.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Why is that different from defending a 5 from Nebraska, Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin??

Will the opposing 4, going to be able stop Lathan if he cuts from the wing across the lane, catches the ball 8 feet from the basket and Lathan shoots over him, or powers to the basket??

a little different....that could be Donta Scott or Aundre Hyatt

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Hawk , your continuous putting down of MAG is just ridiculous at this point. You were dead wrong about MAG last year and you are going overboard this year judging a guy coming off an ACL tear with a team with a dysfunctional offense that has guards that don’t pass the ball.
Mag has talent offensively and I am sorry you do not see it. He is a glue guy . He is a guy that will cut to the basket and not just stand on the perimeter and he will go to the offensive glass. I do not know why he is not defensive rebounding this year other than some of the time Pike has him guarding the point guard or at the head of the 1/3/1 defense and he is no where near the hoop. But a fully healthy Mag with Dylan finding him on cuts will be an important part of the offense next year and you can bet with Dylan and Ace taking a majority of the shots , MAG will be crashing the offensive boards. He also is a tremendous defensive player and plays great team defense which in your analysis totally ignore and assume someone else will do it. That is shallow reasoning and all because you were proven wrong last year.

Stop the hate on Mag , let the kid be 2 years out from ACL surgery and see if we get the MAG that was really starting to become a force offensively as well as his normal great defense before he got injured , playing with a functional offense of Dylan and Jeremiah orchestrating the offense. On a good team , which with Ace and Dylan , we will be good to very good , watch how important the glue guys are to the chemistry of the team.

In fairness he hasn't been wrong about Mag this year. As far as glue he has been far from it. Has he taken the freshman under his wing like upperclassmen should? Has he had many games where the intensity is down? Is he rebounding at the same level as Davis and Simpson?

 

[goru7]

In fairness he hasn't been wrong about Mag this year. As far as glue he has been far from it. Has he taken the freshman under his wing like upperclassmen should? Has he had many games where the intensity is down? Is he rebounding at the same level as Davis and Simpson?

In fairness he is coming off of ACL surgery . In fairness he didn’t play for the first 8 games. He played in the Seton Hall game for the first time and scored 4 points and grabbed 8 rebounds first time out in the win. He has missed 2-4 more games because of knee soreness. So he has missed about half of our games.

He plays with guards that do not pass to any front line player , Gavin , Hyatt or Cliff enough as the offense is often dysfunctional. He is being sat by Pike for long stretches of games and then put in for 4-5 minutes and supposed to make an impact. Do you realize how hard that is. ? Do not even attempt to defend Hawk here as his argument about Mag is disingenuous. Just like he said we wouldn’t miss Cam and Paul. Sometimes he says things that are proven so wrong and then you are there to go to his defense. Really ?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

In fairness he is coming off of ACL surgery . In fairness he didn’t play for the first 8 games. He played in the Seton Hall game for the first time and scored 4 points and grabbed 8 rebounds first time out in the win. He has missed 2-4 more games because of knee soreness. So he has missed about half of our games.

He plays with guards that do not pass to any front line player , Gavin , Hyatt or Cliff enough as the offense is often dysfunctional. He is being sat by Pike for long stretches of games and then put in for 4-5 minutes and supposed to make an impact. Do you realize how hard that is. ? Do not even attempt to defend Hawk here as his argument about Mag is disingenuous. Just like he said we wouldn’t miss Cam and Paul. Sometimes he says things that are proven so wrong and then you are there to go to his defense. Really ?

You need to listen what NJH writes. You dont have to agree with what he says. I get a lot of things right, but get my share of things wrong. He has conviction in his thoughts so when he gets them wrong we know. He hs gotten a lot of things right.

He also is a passionate fan. I will always defend a guy who answers your questions and is respectful even if i do t agree with him all the time.

 

[fluoxetine]

boom......

where we can have a nice debate is there a path to be #75 on O and top 10 in D and be a top 10 type of team. Not talking about this year, just in general.

I think that is the Pike blueprint AND I think we are going away from that.

I don't see why the path isn't to just do the exact same thing but with better players.

2020 #72 / #6
2021 #82/ #16
2023 #151 / #6

This was without all that much in the way of recruiting success.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don't see why the path isn't to just do the exact same thing but with better players.

2020 #72 / #6
2021 #82/ #16
2023 #151 / #6

This was without all that much in the way of recruiting success.

Thats kind of what i think.

Pike has built a model of success, but he has been tempted and seduced by 5 star 1 and done talent.

Lets see how this goes.

 

[goru7]

You need to listen what NJH writes. You dont have to agree with what he says. I get a lot of things right, but get my share of things wrong. He has conviction in his thoughts so when he gets them wrong we know. He hs gotten a lot of things right.

He also is a passionate fan.

I know who he is. I have been on these boards just as long as you and probably longer. Hawk knows basketball but he also has agendas and makes proclamations that at proven false and he does everything in his rants to try to tell us why he was not wrong. I am not standing by idolly and let him shit on Mag. You can. That is why this is a message board. We all have opinions and a lot of times they differ but sometimes facts appear and those facts hit someone in the head and they would rather double down. I agree and like a number of Hawk’s posts when we dive into specific basketball discussion but he misses the mark as well and we will discuss it like adults do.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I know who he is. I have been on these boards just as long as you and probably longer. Hawk knows basketball but he also has agendas and makes proclamations that at proven false and he does everything in his rants to try to tell us why he was not wrong. I am not standing by idolly and let him shit on Mag. You can. That is why this is a message board. We all have opinions and a lot of times they differ but sometimes facts appear and those facts hit someone in the head and they would rather double down. I agree and like a number of Hawk’s posts when we dive into specific basketball discussion but he misses the mark as well and we will discuss it like adults do.

What agenda does Hawk have with Mag?
He doesn't like the #3?
He doesn't like people with 1st names longer than last names?
He doesn't like Mag's smile?

 

[goru7]

What agenda does Hawk have with Mag?
He doesn't like the #3?
He doesn't like people with 1st names longer than last names?
He doesn't like Mag's smile?

Have you been in a box unable to hear , read or listen ?

 

[kcg88]

BTW I would add the premise of the thread -- that a Fab 3 exists -- is flawed.

Bailey - #2
Harper - #3
Sommerville - #101

 

[RUsojo]

Hawk , your continuous putting down of MAG is just ridiculous at this point. You were dead wrong about MAG last year and you are going overboard this year judging a guy coming off an ACL tear with a team with a dysfunctional offense that has guards that don’t pass the ball.
Mag has talent offensively and I am sorry you do not see it. He is a glue guy . He is a guy that will cut to the basket and not just stand on the perimeter and he will go to the offensive glass. I do not know why he is not defensive rebounding this year other than some of the time Pike has him guarding the point guard or at the head of the 1/3/1 defense and he is no where near the hoop. But a fully healthy Mag with Dylan finding him on cuts will be an important part of the offense next year and you can bet with Dylan and Ace taking a majority of the shots , MAG will be crashing the offensive boards. He also is a tremendous defensive player and plays great team defense which in your analysis totally ignore and assume someone else will do it. That is shallow reasoning and all because you were proven wrong last year.

Stop the hate on Mag , let the kid be 2 years out from ACL surgery and see if we get the MAG that was really starting to become a force offensively as well as his normal great defense before he got injured , playing with a functional offense of Dylan and Jeremiah orchestrating the offense. On a good team , which with Ace and Dylan , we will be good to very good , watch how important the glue guys are to the chemistry of the team.

He was right about mag. Board highly overvaluing him.

 

[RUsojo]

BTW I would add the premise of the thread -- that a Fab 3 exists -- is flawed.

Bailey - #2
Harper - #3
Sommerville - #101

Certainly does not

 

[Degaz-RU]

He was right about mag. Board highly overvaluing him.

3-8 (2-6 B1G) after Mag got injured last year says otherwise. Loudly.

This year, Mag is nursing two sore knees, one of which is surgically repaired. Not fair to judge him when he's playing injured just one year removed from ACL surgery.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Have you been in a box unable to hear , read or listen ?

yes. with noise cancelling headphones

 

[goru7]

He was right about mag. Board highly overvaluing him.

He wasn’t right about Mag. But you can try really hard to convince yourself he was. Do not let facts get in your way.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Thats kind of what i think.

Pike has built a model of success, but he has been tempted and seduced by 5 star 1 and done talent.

Lets see how this goes.

What makes you so sure the stars have a correlation to the model one way or the other? Is there evidence that Geo looked like a better defender than Ace and Harper in high school? I don’t know the answer to that question by the way. I did not follow the recruiting of Geo back when.

 

[fluoxetine]

What makes you so sure the stars have a correlation to the model one way or the other? Is there evidence that Geo looked like a better defender than Ace and Harper in high school? I don’t know the answer to that question by the way. I did not follow the recruiting of Geo back when.

I can maybe see some reasons why it would.. maybe it takes time to develop players into the kind of defenders that Pike has and so one and dones won't do it regardless of talent level.

I don't really believe that though. I think that getting more talented players and doing the same things with them will result in better results.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I can maybe see some reasons why it would.. maybe it takes time to develop players into the kind of defenders that Pike has and so one and dones won't do it regardless of talent level.

I don't really believe that though. I think that getting more talented players and doing the same things with them will result in better results.

We’re playing plenty of frosh and sophomores this year. Defense isn’t the problem. I think GG and Jaden Jones are exceptions - not the rule on frosh D.

Geo, RHJ, Tez, Mag, Simpson, and Davis came in as good defenders. Caleb is probably the only case to point to of a kid whose D game Pike transformed over time. He wasn’t awful as a frosh though - I’d call him average and he shifted to elite.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

What makes you so sure the stars have a correlation to the model one way or the other? Is there evidence that Geo looked like a better defender than Ace and Harper in high school? I don’t know the answer to that question by the way. I did not follow the recruiting of Geo back when.

Things are different today then they were even 2 years ago.

I think the buy in is easier for lower star players that, as a whole, have less egos and may be more appreciative of the opportunity.

Maybe you can make the argument that the AAU games of the ultra talented feature less defense than those of the less talented. I'd have to defer to you on this one.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We’re playing plenty of frosh and sophomores this year. Defense isn’t the problem. I think GG and Jaden Jones are exceptions - not the rule on frosh D.

Geo, RHJ, Tez, Mag, Simpson, and Davis came in as good defenders. Caleb is probably the only case to point to of a kid whose D game Pike transformed over time. He wasn’t awful as a frosh though - I’d call him average and he shifted to elite.

I can't remember Geo
Montez was an enigma..he'd play good D for 29 seconds and have a lapse all the time...to yuor point he did compete feom Day 1 on D
RHJ---i am not going to comment
Simpson--I think he is better defensively this year compared to last
Davis--for sure. I'd like to know his background. I think he defintely has been in the weight room too

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

3-8 (2-6 B1G) after Mag got injured last year says otherwise. Loudly.

This year, Mag is nursing two sore knees, one of which is surgically repaired. Not fair to judge him when he's playing injured just one year removed from ACL surgery.

NJH was wrong about Mag's injury impact last year
He was right, so far, about his impact this year. NET NET he has not been a positive for us so far this year.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Things are different today then they were even 2 years ago.

I think the buy in is easier for lower star players that, as a whole, have less egos and may be more appreciative of the opportunity.

Maybe you can make the argument that the AAU games of the ultra talented feature less defense than those of the less talented. I'd have to defer to you on this one.

I don’t know. We’ve never had 5 stars before. The only example to go along with your concern is Jaden Jones. Gavin isn’t what you describe. He’s just lost. For what it’s worth, I don’t think that will be the outcome with Dylan or Ace. If their D sucks it’s because they don’t buy into the concept of having to put 100% into it (like Jaden) not that it just doesn’t click. There’s exactly one case of that (two I guess if you include Peter Kiss but he wasn’t a frosh).

 

[Mbash93]

Since a lot of you struggle with basic talent evaluation or common sense. Let me spell it out for you.

Starting Next year - 100%

JWill - Harper - Bailey

Starting next year if he returns - 100%

Cliff

Starting next year if he returns - 50%

Mawot Mag.

The first four if they are here make up your 1/2/4/5.

Mag can be improved upon at the three and would be a lot better suited as the 6th man, but if you can't improve from him he's a capable starter on that team.

If cliff doesn't return, a 4th/5th year senior will be brought in to start.

 

[fluoxetine]

I think the buy in is easier for lower star players that, as a whole, have less egos and may be more appreciative of the opportunity.

Maybe? But Dylan's brother played in this program and I'd be hard pressed to believe that Ace doesn't know what he's getting himself into. Why would they come here if they didn't want to defend?

 

[fatsam98]

I will watch more but his defensive "effort" in high school leaves a lot to be desired. I want to watch some HS tape on a guy like Owen Freeman to see how it compares.

This is my concern with him as well... that and his conditioning.

That said, he's gonna turn some heads when the big man is knocking down 3's.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Maybe? But Dylan's brother played in this program and I'd be hard pressed to believe that Ace doesn't know what he's getting himself into. Why would they come here if they didn't want to defend?

I hear you.....I ask the same question about Gavin. He went to our games last year, sat behind the bench and nothing clicked to say if I am going to play here I am going to have to learn how to defend.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This is my concern with him as well... that and his conditioning.

That said, he's gonna turn some heads when the big man is knocking down 3's.

I am terrified about conditioning for Dylan and Ace. It will be a shock to their system playing offense after playing hard on D 20 seconds before.

 

[fatsam98]

I am terrified about conditioning for Dylan and Ace. It will be a shock to their system playing offense after playing hard on D 20 seconds before.

Terrified seems a little much for those two. They are both in good shape.

But if you watch a Somerville game and not just the highlights... it's definitely a concern for me. I think the 10-15 minute.predictions are fair, Hawk's 25 minutes seems very unrealistic to me in his freshman year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Terrified seems a little much for those two. They are both in good shape.

But if you watch a Somerville game and not just the highlights... it's definitely a concern for me. I think the 10-15 minute.predictions are fair, Hawk's 25 minutes seems very unrealistic to me in his freshman year.

I am horrified and terrified and really scared.

I do not think Dylan right now is in shape to play for Pike and have the success we expect on offense.

That doesn't mean he won't be in shape in November 2024.

 

[seansherm]

I highly dount Sommerville plays any 4

I highly doubt we go to the portal for a real guard because it will cost $, but we'll get one and hope

Mag is not right this year, should shut it down and come back. Would LOVE to have Mag on a young team next year.

Not sure why Cliff would come back again, then again, still not sure why he came back this year

This team needs big jumps in shooting from Gavin and Simpson next year.

 

[fluoxetine]

I hear you.....I ask the same question about Gavin. He went to our games last year, sat behind the bench and nothing clicked to say if I am going to play here I am going to have to learn how to defend.

I haven’t seen any indication that Gavin isn’t interested in learning how to defend.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I haven’t seen any indication that Gavin isn’t interested in learning how to defend.

I don’t understand how a player can be 18 years old and play basketball his entire life and not be able to be to in a proper defensive triangle.

 

[The RUT]

I’ll die on the JMike starts hill until it doesn’t happen.

Ace is going to be our number 1 offensive option next year, JMike will be in year 2 of the program and already has chemistry with Ace.

I think anyone that doesn’t think JMike has a significant role next season is crazy.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I hear you.....I ask the same question about Gavin. He went to our games last year, sat behind the bench and nothing clicked to say if I am going to play here I am going to have to learn how to defend.

I don’t know anything about Gavin’s high school. Don Bosco coach is solid though. I’m confident Dylan knows how to play D. It’s not the same situation. Gavin is literally clueless to the point where I wonder if his team played only zone.

Dylan strikes me as a similar type of defender to his brother. Scouting report would say - can do a solid job when he wants to but tends to take plays off. He can get away with it more in HS.

I hope he buys into not being the primary ball handler. More worried about that having seen him. I think he’ll be way more effective with J Will running the show and feeding him. That seems to be the current situation with Isiah Brown feeding him at Bosco so hopefully he will be okay with that continuing. He has great speed and looks like he can do a lot in penetration which could be huge. He doesn’t strike me as an elite passer (I don’t think we want him as the primary distributor to Ace and others).

 

[SBP]

Since a lot of you struggle with basic talent evaluation or common sense. Let me spell it out for you.

Starting Next year - 100%

JWill - Harper - Bailey

Starting next year if he returns - 100%

Cliff

Starting next year if he returns - 50%

Mawot Mag.

The first four if they are here make up your 1/2/4/5.

Mag can be improved upon at the three and would be a lot better suited as the 6th man, but if you can't improve from him he's a capable starter on that team.

If cliff doesn't return, a 4th/5th year senior will be brought in to start.

Again please tell me what Mag has done this year to deserve a start if there is someone who can replace him with more offensive firepower and play making ability ? Which is what this team needs desperately

 

[fatsam98]

Again please tell me what Mag has done this year to deserve a start if there is someone who can replace him with more offensive firepower and play making ability ? Which is what this team needs desperately

He starts this year, who is starting over him next year out of who is currently on the roster or one of the incoming freshmen?