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Doucoure

bac2therac

bac2therac

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No playing time yesterday. The guy went from starting most of the games last season..basically because there was no one else to being a total non factor this year. I suppose there is time for him to develop into a contributor but for his hype that he came can we now ask was he a recruiting miss for Pikiell? I am not looking to start a bash thread but some discussion of the situation. Obviously when you have players who are not contributing that were expected to be part of the build its a concern. No one can spin or downplay it. Add in that Issa has gone AWOL in our offense...add in that Doorson and Johnson cannot be counted on for offense and Carter is being brought along slowly, it magnfies the issues we have on offense right now and how limited our scoring options are. Doucoure showed signs that he could get perhaps be able to contribute in the paint offensively but seemingly that idea has disappeared. It would seem defensively he is a liability but I would hope on such a challenged team that Pikiell and staff can find a role for him to play on this team. We have a lot of bigs..they rebound well but they contributed very very little on the offensive end.
 
Basically our problem with our forwards/centers is they are not great at multiple things. Johnson is good at one thing, Shaq another, Carter another, and Duke at something else. I wouldn’t call it a recruiting miss. I hate that. Not every scholarship player plays
 
bac2therac said:
No playing time yesterday. The guy went from starting most of the games last season..basically because there was no one else to being a total non factor this year. I suppose there is time for him to develop into a contributor but for his hype that he came can we now ask was he a recruiting miss for Pikiell? I am not looking to start a bash thread but some discussion of the situation. Obviously when you have players who are not contributing that were expected to be part of the build its a concern. No one can spin or downplay it. Add in that Issa has gone AWOL in our offense...add in that Doorson and Johnson cannot be counted on for offense and Carter is being brought along slowly, it magnfies the issues we have on offense right now and how limited our scoring options are. Doucoure showed signs that he could get perhaps be able to contribute in the paint offensively but seemingly that idea has disappeared. It would seem defensively he is a liability but I would hope on such a challenged team that Pikiell and staff can find a role for him to play on this team. We have a lot of bigs..they rebound well but they contributed very very little on the offensive end.
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Doucoure, Johnson, Doorsen - not one of them has developed a signature post move since they've been at RU. Are we even teaching post moves? - Sikma move, drop step, face up and cross over? All I ever see is backing in and then fading away - one of the reasons our bigs are never on the line.
 
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Johnson has nice footwork, a drop step and soft touch in the lane..I saw it in the first few games. Perhaps he isn’t strong enough or confident enough to get it up against better competition yet.

Doorson’ minor improvement I believe can be attributed to him finally being healthy. He hasn’t developed any offensive game. It’s all putbacks and dunks. His defense is horrible.

Doucoure showed a nice touch last year but hasn’t shown anything this year in limited minutes.

I’m not sure what to make of Carter. I actually think he’s our best option right now in the little I’ve seen of him but think Johnson will be better by the end of the season.
 
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Bac

It’s a legit point

For what I see...doicoure is not a center ...he has a body of s center...but he has the game of a power forward...except he is way behind both Eugene and Harper (who plays most of The four minutes when Eugene isn’t in).
Thiam May even be ahead of him in the pecking order

He doesn’t have the handle on the outside to play the four or the lateral quickness to play a stretch four
 
In today’s college basketball you can have only 1 player on the floor who isn’t an offensive thrat from the outside. Essentially they are 5s.

Duke Johnson Carter doorson fighting for 30-40 minutes,

Duke and carter are undersized.
 
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soundcrib said:
Why would he transfer? 1 Shaq is graduating. He'll be right back in the big man rotation. All you guys had Shaq D transferring too.
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Guys, i say this once a week. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. At least one guy transfers. There are ways to force guys out with the actions of your coach. Duke is out of the rotation, end of season meeting pike will lay out the future and duke will be gone imo
 
Just because he started last year doesn’t mean he is supposed to be anywhere near the best of the bigs. If you think about it, he is nearly tied with Johnson in experience with the exception of game minutes. Both Shaqs are upperclassmen. Also, we play 11 if you include him. Sometimes you wonder by rotating so many people whether anyone can get into a rhythm. He’ll be needed next year though once Shaq leaves.
 
For all we heard about Myles passing ability and low post moves I have not seen much recently to suggest he is much further ahead than where Doucore was when playing last year. Saw a couple of nice post moves against Michigan State but he seems to be having the same issue that MD did with staying out of early foul trouble. Obviously Pike thinks the other three are ahead of MD and that may be about defense but none of them are doing much offensively. If this is another year about development, then he needs to get Myles and MD minutes unless he is writing MD off. Seems too early for that to me. Could he still RS?
 
The real answer could be.....(all speculation)

Pike is after Duke and other schools want Duke this year and not last. Pike pitched come to RU and you will play right away.

Pike has Johnson redshirt, Doorson still not healthy and Duke is the only option
 
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Doucoure was a 2018 recruit that reclassified to 2017. Certain players only seem to value their contributions by scoring and likely doesn't have the defensive rotations down.

I don't see any reasons why he's a transfer candidate, it literally makes no sense to transfer. Carter is junior and Doorson a senior. He plays next year and if anyone goes down up front, he's back into the rotation.

As far as players, typically 1 out of 3 recruits washes out. It's rare that every recruit hits....some under-recruited kids over achieve and others take longer...bigs take longer as well. I am confident in Doucoure but can understand the instant gratification placed on recruiting wins.
 
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2 years playing D1 basketball and he doesn't understand that when you touch the ball it doesn't mean "my turn to shoot". Pike has seen enough of the 18' bricks he launches on his first touch.

Recruiting miss. They happen. We desperately needed a big last year, so it made sense to take him. I still have faith in our staff. Bring in a freshman big that is capable of learning the game.
 
RUChow said:
Doucoure, Johnson, Doorsen - not one of them has developed a signature post move since they've been at RU. Are we even teaching post moves? - Sikma move, drop step, face up and cross over? All I ever see is backing in and then fading away - one of the reasons our bigs are never on the line.
Click to expand...
It was said by coach Pikiell that Johnson was showing strong offensive moves prior to the season.
 
These recruiting misses are starting to add up. Bullock was a reasonable miss, but souf was the worst scholarship offer I’ve ever seen and now Doucoure can’t even see the court. Not every recruit pans out but you can’t miss on a 4* this badly at this stage of the build.
 
urbanecane said:
These recruiting misses are starting to add up. Bullock was a reasonable miss, but souf was the worst scholarship offer I’ve ever seen and now Doucoure can’t even see the court. Not every recruit pans out but you can’t miss on a 4* this badly at this stage of the build.
Click to expand...

The bigger “miss” was by whoever rated him a 4*.
 
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If Doucoure doesn't get more playing time than he has so far this year then the writing is on the wall for a transfer. Sure Doucoure will be gone but next year we need to be past the stage of giving guys minutes just by default. Barring an unforseen development to his game, he's not going to see many minutes next year. And considering that he hasn't really taken a step forward from last year to this year, I think it's more realist than pessimist to have concerns about his future.
 
If Dourcore wants to play, develop interior offensive play in lieu of his horrible 15 foot shots. We lack this currently.
 
Was it Doucore who threw Powell back on to the court after he landed on the RU bench?

I had a lot of Bud Lights and havn't watched the replay yet, so not sure.

$13 per 24 oz can, and i still bought 4 , not sure what I was thinking
 
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bac2therac said:
No playing time yesterday. The guy went from starting most of the games last season..basically because there was no one else to being a total non factor this year. I suppose there is time for him to develop into a contributor but for his hype that he came can we now ask was he a recruiting miss for Pikiell? I am not looking to start a bash thread but some discussion of the situation. Obviously when you have players who are not contributing that were expected to be part of the build its a concern. No one can spin or downplay it. Add in that Issa has gone AWOL in our offense...add in that Doorson and Johnson cannot be counted on for offense and Carter is being brought along slowly, it magnfies the issues we have on offense right now and how limited our scoring options are. Doucoure showed signs that he could get perhaps be able to contribute in the paint offensively but seemingly that idea has disappeared. It would seem defensively he is a liability but I would hope on such a challenged team that Pikiell and staff can find a role for him to play on this team. We have a lot of bigs..they rebound well but they contributed very very little on the offensive end.
Click to expand...
Redshirt
 
We’re never gonna play 3 bigs it’s not the style Pike wants to implement but you will always have 3 on the roster. I don’t see any reason to believe Pike will recruit a better 5 man in 2019 sinim indifferent to whether he stays or goes.
 
bac2therac said:
No playing time yesterday. The guy went from starting most of the games last season..basically because there was no one else to being a total non factor this year. I suppose there is time for him to develop into a contributor but for his hype that he came can we now ask was he a recruiting miss for Pikiell? I am not looking to start a bash thread but some discussion of the situation. Obviously when you have players who are not contributing that were expected to be part of the build its a concern. No one can spin or downplay it. Add in that Issa has gone AWOL in our offense...add in that Doorson and Johnson cannot be counted on for offense and Carter is being brought along slowly, it magnfies the issues we have on offense right now and how limited our scoring options are. Doucoure showed signs that he could get perhaps be able to contribute in the paint offensively but seemingly that idea has disappeared. It would seem defensively he is a liability but I would hope on such a challenged team that Pikiell and staff can find a role for him to play on this team. We have a lot of bigs..they rebound well but they contributed very very little on the offensive end.
Click to expand...
Yes BAC, it is a little puzzling. Duke could get on the block or turn and hit a 10-14 footer last year. His lack of quickness hurts him defensively but also offensively. But I think Coach has to get the ball to all of our bigs on more designed plays. We are turning into the Eugene show on low block plays only and he is fading away more, forcing more shots and not passing out of the double team enough or definitely fast enough . Why isn’t Carter, or Myles or Shaquille or Duke put on the low block and allowed to make a move . Our bigs have to use the glass and make a simple bank shot. It would open things up at the three point line. Coach ‘s failure to develop Duke will hurt our chances in the Big 10 because I think he is capable of 8-10 points, points we desperately need to get over the hump in these close games , especially the last 3 against Wisconsin, Fordham, and Seton Hall .
 
You can only do so much with the lack of talent on the roster. To get better he will have to recruit better. 2020 is the key. With the goodwill he seemingly has from the fan base, the positive press from media as a result, and the new practice facility at his back he will have every resource at his disposal to finally improve in recruiting and surpass some big 10 foes.

Year 5, 6, and 7 will be Pikes best seasons on the banks and that’s not a bad thing.
 
NewJerseyHawk said:
Doucoure was a 2018 recruit that reclassified to 2017..
Click to expand...

I believe Doucoure was a 2017 recruit, who reclassified to 2018, then reclassified back to 2017.

Agree with the rest, though - no sense for him to redshirt right now. Doorson will be gone next year, and there will be minutes to be had as a junior.
 
There will be minutes but they need to be taken by somebody who can really play, not just given to someone by default.

We're only playing one big at a time anyway... I don't think it's crazy for Johnson and Carter to split 35 minutes next year plus 5 minutes of true small-ball where Eugene plays the 5.
 
goru7 said:
Yes BAC, it is a little puzzling. Duke could get on the block or turn and hit a 10-14 footer last year. His lack of quickness hurts him defensively but also offensively. But I think Coach has to get the ball to all of our bigs on more designed plays. We are turning into the Eugene show on low block plays only and he is fading away more, forcing more shots and not passing out of the double team enough or definitely fast enough . Why isn’t Carter, or Myles or Shaquille or Duke put on the low block and allowed to make a move . Our bigs have to use the glass and make a simple bank shot. It would open things up at the three point line. Coach ‘s failure to develop Duke will hurt our chances in the Big 10 because I think he is capable of 8-10 points, points we desperately need to get over the hump in these close games , especially the last 3 against Wisconsin, Fordham, and Seton Hall .
Click to expand...
Isn’t Jay Young responsible for the bigs?
 
urbanecane said:
These recruiting misses are starting to add up. Bullock was a reasonable miss, but souf was the worst scholarship offer I’ve ever seen and now Doucoure can’t even see the court. Not every recruit pans out but you can’t miss on a 4* this badly at this stage of the build.
Click to expand...

Bullock and Souf were total stretches that were unlikely to succeed, but it's hard to fault a coach who misses with a 4-star big man with lots of potential. Docoure still looks lost out there, but it is not unusual for a big man to take at least two full years to develop. I would not totally write him off just yet, although I agree that at his height he is a man without a true position. He's best suited for the center position, but under-sized there for the Big 10. He does not handle the ball well enough to be a 4, but maybe he will improve. He has shown a soft shooting touch on his mid-range jumper.
 
This may sound simple but we need a stud scorer like Powell. He made a huge difference. With our remaining scholarship, can we find one?
 
soundcrib said:
Isn’t Jay Young responsible for the bigs?
Click to expand...
I believe Young is responsible for defense and the bigs. A lot on his plate. Coach, Hobbs, and Brandon were all guards, but pretty sure they can teach the big men to drop step and make a move. A little disappointed in the coaches in general not getting our bigs to go back up strong with 2 hands with a flush or a strong move initiating contact in the process. I know they practice with the dummies hitting them but by chance why don’t Shaquille, Myles or Duke go back up strong with an offensive rebound? Myles showed early on he can drop step and has a nice back down move with a soft bank over his right shoulder. He has to have plays run for him. He has gotten timid but not sure why. At this stage, confidence is really crucial. He starts hitting a few in a row , then becomes more assertive. He has been under the basket a few feet from the hoop on offensive rebounds and almost automatically passing out. That has to be reversed. We could have used 6-8 points from him against the Hall. The same goes for Shaquille’s and Duke. We have to finally establish a low postscoring threat that will get our guards more open for kick out threes if they get doubled or cannot make their move.
 
RUChow said:
Doucoure, Johnson, Doorsen - not one of them has developed a signature post move since they've been at RU. Are we even teaching post moves? - Sikma move, drop step, face up and cross over? All I ever see is backing in and then fading away - one of the reasons our bigs are never on the line.
Click to expand...

To answer your question, yes post work is done, look at how vastly improved Eugene is at the post moves & his footwork. It is being taught & with some success. The problem is what another poster put, it seems our Bigs are good at some aspect of the game but not multiple which lead to a legit threat inside. Doorson is good on the glass & using his length/size on the defensive end but his touch in the post on moves is not strong nor does he have the shot for that 8-10ft. Myles I think has the ability with the drop step & other moves, but 10 g into his college career, he just needs to develop confidence & comfort. Carter came in as more of a clean up the glass type player if I recall, but might be the most aggressive with regards to confidence. As for Douc, the ball gets stuck with him or he gets antsy & looks for a shot that is not always there. He did knock some shots down last year (I believe in Minny he shot well) but those 15-18ft shots, there is a reason why they let you take it. Just tries to do too much with it at times when he does get in because the time is limited.
 
So is Doucore redshirting this year? Might as well unless one of the other bigs gets hurt.
 
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