Doucoure

[dkostus]

Was just going back and looking at clips from 2 years ago. I've linked the game at Minnesota... this was inarguably his best game that year. 12 points on 5 for 10 shooting and 9 boards.

Watching it just makes me think a few things. First, the poster that was claiming for awhile that Doucoure was only a little taller than Freeman and Gene is wildly off. Second, while it's just one game, it's hard to think this kid doesn't have potential especially with having redshirted last year.

 

[RUChoppin]

Was just going back and looking at clips from 2 years ago. I've linked the game at Minnesota... this was inarguably his best game that year. 12 points on 5 for 10 shooting and 9 boards.

Watching it just makes me think a few things. First, the poster that was claiming for awhile that Doucoure was only a little taller than Freeman and Gene is wildly off. Second, while it's just one game, it's hard to think this kid doesn't have potential especially with having redshirted last year.

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The starting lineup has Doucoure as a G/F and Thiam as a F/C? Oy. Great scouting BTN.

 

[dkostus]

The starting lineup has Doucoure as a G/F and Thiam as a F/C? Oy. Great scouting BTN.

They mess stuff up all the time

 

[kcg88]

There's potential but he needs to almost exclusively play in the paint. Too much floating around just inside the three-point line.

 

[dkostus]

There's potential but he needs to almost exclusively play in the paint. Too much floating around just inside the three-point line.

Hopefully we have coaches

 

[RU82]

Last we all saw Doucoure he was a project. He had no back to the basket game, an inconsistent mid-range game, and was a liability on defense. Let’s hope he makes strides because we’re going to need solid minutes from him this season.

 

[knight82]

He was thrown into the fire before he was ready. Sitting out last year was the best thing that could have happened to him. Maybe now we will see the player we had hoped we were getting

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

We didn't redshirt Eugene because we didnt have enough bodies and had 12 to 14 minutes a game to offer. In an ideal situation, if you take a project, you don't rush him onto the court and demand immediate impact and results.

We then reclassified Doucoure up a season, after Getty's departure and Shaq Doorson in a walking boot. Doucoure could've declined and stayed in 2018, but with Myles Johnson also needing more time to get into shape after his knee injury in HS, we played Doucoure, also looking towards the future.

With Doorson finally in a place to help and Carter, Eugene and Myles, there wasnt a need for a 5th big guy.

Unlike the dire need the year before, we reset Doucoure to his proper class. We've seen Kadeem Jack, Greg Lewis, Austin Johnson Shaq Doorson all take at least 2 full seasons before hitting their stride.

We really don't need a ton out of Doucoure this year, but with Eugene out, Carter and Doucoure will have to play better, although I don't quite see how many minutes he finds until the B1G season rolls around or we play a traditional opposing lineup.

Doucoure, Johnson and Carter need to box out, grab rebounds and alter shots, give fouls and make an occasional put back. The other hidden factor is whether all 3 bigs improve their FT shooting a bit.

 

[Scangg]

I expect Doucoure to be very matchup dependant outside of injuries or foul trouble with a minimal role in games where the opponent doesn't have a lot of big thick guys down low. Carter is the guy behind Yeboah and Myles that I think gets more of the backup minutes with some stints with Harper at the 4

Granted injuries and foul trouble happen so we will likely need Doucoure for at least a stretch this season. It would be nice to see at least one go to move for him with his back to the basketball

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I expect Doucoure to be very matchup dependant outside of injuries or foul trouble with a minimal role in games where the opponent doesn't have a lot of big thick guys down low. Carter is the guy behind Yeboah and Myles that I think gets more of the backup minutes with some stints with Harper at the 4

Granted injuries and foul trouble happen so we will likely need Doucoure for at least a stretch this season. It would be nice to see at least one go to move for him with his back to the basketball

Forget offensive moves. If we need to go to Duke in the post, we're in trouble.

I have 2 goals for Doucoure: 1. Be able to keep up with the speed of the game. The reason for his constant foul trouble was because he was a step slow, failed to anticipate, or out of position on everything he did. 2. Improve his overall basketball IQ. Too often he would make mistakes that resembled a kid just learning the game. Stop jacking up 15 footers on your first touch off the bench.

Learn how the D1 game is played, keep up, defend, rebound, make a put back. That's it for the 2019-20 season. We can talk about a little jump hook in 2 years.

.

 

[RUChoppin]

Forget offensive moves. If we need to go to Duke in the post, we're in trouble.

I have 2 goals for Doucoure: 1. Be able to keep up with the speed of the game. The reason for his constant foul trouble was because he was a step slow, failed to anticipate, or out of position on everything he did. 2. Improve his overall basketball IQ. Too often he would make mistakes that resembled a kid just learning the game. Stop jacking up 15 footers on your first touch off the bench.

Learn how the D1 game is played, keep up, defend, rebound, make a put back. That's it for the 2019-20 season. We can talk about a little jump hook in 2 years.

.

The positioning/anticipation is something that can be improved with reps, and hopefully he's gotten a lot of those over this past redshirt season and this offseason of practice. He also had some body control issues (e.g., would have been a block, but ended up as a foul), which is improved with both reps and also S&C.

Carter had similar positioning/anticipation problems on defense this past year, too, but was much better about not fouling. Really hoping they can both work on internalizing the defensive concepts so they can just act without having to think "where am I supposed to be right now".

Taking a look at what we might be getting with Doucoure backing up Johnson and taking Doorson's minutes.... if we compare Doucoure's "per 40 min" stats as a freshman starter getting 13.1 min/game to Doorson's "per 40" stats as a RS senior starter getting 17.8 min/game:

Doucoure: 8.6 pts, 9.8 rb, 0.9 blk, 2.2 tov, 7.3 pf
Doorson: 8.3 pts, 9.7 rb, 2.3 blk, 1.6 tov, 4.4 pf

The fouls really jump off the page, especially when you look at the foul-to-block ratio.

 

[rudad02]

Look out for Douc.

 

[Mr Magoo]

So I’m guessing people are expecting Yeboah to start at the 4 and Harper at the 3?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If I were to take a wild stab I think you can look at minutes Shaq Doorson got in various games last year and subtract the number 10 and that is what Doucore will play (provided he is behind Carter on the depth chart)

 

[dkostus]

So I’m guessing people are expecting Yeboah to start at the 4 and Harper at the 3?

Pretty much... I think they're interchangeable at those 2 spots. I expect Harper and Yeboah to both play 25/mpg. Yeboah 25/mpg at the 4, Harper 15/mpg at the 3, 10/mpg at the 4.

Carter 10/mpg at the 5, 5/mpg at the 4. Johnson 22/mpg at the 5. Doucoure 8/mpg at the 5

This is why I dont really think we're thin up front. Yeboah and Harper have to take almost all the minutes at the 4 to leave a lot of the minutes at the 3 for our glut of perimeter players. McConnell, etc.

So the 5 has Myles, Carter and Doucoure all getting time there and clearly we expect Myles minutes to increase this year

 

[MadRU]

The starting lineup has Doucoure as a G/F and Thiam as a F/C? Oy. Great scouting BTN.

RUChoppin, I thought that at first look also, but then realized that the / was showing Rutgers on one side and Minnesota in the other.i Coffey is the guard opposite Duke’s name F/G and Lynch the center opposite Issa’s name F/C.

 

[RUChoppin]

If I were to take a wild stab I think you can look at minutes Shaq Doorson got in various games last year and subtract the number 10 and that is what Doucore will play (provided he is behind Carter on the depth chart)

I'm interested to find out how that will break out. We haven't seen Carter play the 5 or defend opposing centers, since he was always at the 4 last year (even when he played alongside Omoruyi, it was EO that guarded the opposing 5).

 

[RUChoppin]

RUChoppin, I thought that at first look also, but then realized that the / was showing Rutgers on one side and Minnesota in the other.i Coffey is the guard opposite Duke’s name F/G and Lynch the center opposite Issa’s name F/C.

That makes much more sense - and now I see Baker and Sanders listed as "G/G". Just weird graphic layout.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You can spin to me that the Omoruyi loss will make us better offensively because there will be more perimeter offensive weapons. If we end up seeing 2 bigs on the floor for extended time than we have a problem.

I know Carter and Duke aren't really centers.

 

[dkostus]

You can spin to me that the Omoruyi loss will make us better offensively because there will be more perimeter offensive weapons. If we end up seeing 2 bigs on the floor for extended time than we have a problem.

I know Carter and Duke aren't really centers.

It's likely the only time you'll see two bigs on the floor will include Myles Johnson. Doucoure and Carter backing up Johnson for 15-18/mpg next year was always the status quo so your statement that they arent really centers is kind of meaningless.

Particularly given your endless mantra of what the new "4" looks like in college basketball, please tell me what position Doucoure and Carter do play in this brave new world? Half the teams in college basketball dont have a real center and they are as close to it as you'll find on a good portion of the others

 

[RUChoppin]

You can spin to me that the Omoruyi loss will make us better offensively because there will be more perimeter offensive weapons. If we end up seeing 2 bigs on the floor for extended time than we have a problem.

I know Carter and Duke aren't really centers.

They aren't, but Duke at least has played one on TV, lol

Carter's never been the sole big on the floor or responsible for the biggest body defensively. We'll see how he handles that shift.

 

[RUChoppin]

Doucoure and Carter backing up Johnson for 15-18/mpg next year was always the status quo so your statement that they arent really centers is kind of meaningless.

There was some expectation that Omoruyi would (again) spend some minutes at the 5 backing up Johnson, especially with Harper/Yeboah looking for minutes at the 3/4 spots. It's possible Yeboah sees some time at the 5 spot, too (I think he's seen some minutes there at SB).

I know everyone just automatically assumes Carter would be the backup 5 behind Johnson, but it's still a role change for him - since he's always been the "2nd" big on the floor while at RU. I'll be interested to see how he handles that challenge.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Pretty much... I think they're interchangeable at those 2 spots. I expect Harper and Yeboah to both play 25/mpg. Yeboah 25/mpg at the 4, Harper 15/mpg at the 3, 10/mpg at the 4.

Carter 10/mpg at the 5, 5/mpg at the 4. Johnson 22/mpg at the 5. Doucoure 8/mpg at the 5

This is why I dont really think we're thin up front. Yeboah and Harper have to take almost all the minutes at the 4 to leave a lot of the minutes at the 3 for our glut of perimeter players. McConnell, etc.

So the 5 has Myles, Carter and Doucoure all getting time there and clearly we expect Myles minutes to increase this year

We’ll be thin up front if we get the 2018 version of Doucoure. If Doucoure can give us semi-productive Doorson minutes, we’ll be ok.

 

[RUChoppin]

So I’m guessing people are expecting Yeboah to start at the 4 and Harper at the 3?

I'd say that consensus expectation is that we see Harper/Yeboah as starters, alongside Johnson and Baker, with the second backcourt position still in some debate. Whether one or the other is a 3 or 4 is less important.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Baker
Mathis (his job to lose...defensive identity)
Harper
Yeboah
Myles

 

[RUChoppin]

Baker
Mathis (his job to lose...defensive identity)
Harper
Yeboah
Myles

Agree that it's Mathis' job to lose right now - I'd imagine that Young and McConnell will push him hard for that job, though, as the season progresses.

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Doucoure has shown range on his shot as a freshman, if he can hit a couple of 15 footers a game to keep the defender honest will go a long way when he's in the game this season.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Agree that it's Mathis' job to lose right now - I'd imagine that Young and McConnell will push him hard for that job, though, as the season progresses.

I am making a guess, will sound negative, that there will be times where Pikiell will have to use PT as a carrot for PT. May be instances where best overall team is not on the floor, but best defensive unit is. The tone may need to be set and reset multiple times that a Rutgers basketball player must play defense and rebound.

 

[bowlgoal]

I never saw Douc play in high school but we certainly don't need him taking outside shots with so many other shooters on the floor. He's also not very good at the line so I'm just not sure why he was a 4 star recruit? If there was an area he could help, I would say hitting the boards hard and putting back the scraps around the hoop..........but with authority. I feel like he has it in him but even when he was healthy as a freshman, he just seemed soft. I don't know; I'm not really a fan of his game but hopefully he can contribute? Set good picks and hit the glass on both sides of ball. He has to play within himself very much like Doorsan learned to do.

 

[RutgHoops]

Look out for Douc.

We have watched bigs like Doorson, Gene and Myles get immeasurably better under the tutelage of this staff. If I were to wager I am going to say Doucoure and Carter will be better than last we saw them.

 

[rudad02]

Doucoure has shown range on his shot as a freshman, if he can hit a couple of 15 footers a game to keep the defender honest will go a long way when he's in the game this season.

Was up at the Rack the other day & Douc was shooting shot after shot from around 20', alone & then Kiss came & was feeding him. Also shooting free throws. Has a nice touch.

 

[dkostus]

I never saw Douc play in high school but we certainly don't need him taking outside shots with so many other shooters on the floor. He's also not very good at the line so I'm just not sure why he was a 4 star recruit? If there was an area he could help, I would say hitting the boards hard and putting back the scraps around the hoop..........but with authority. I feel like he has it in him but even when he was healthy as a freshman, he just seemed soft. I don't know; I'm not really a fan of his game but hopefully he can contribute? Set good picks and hit the glass on both sides of ball. He has to play within himself very much like Doorsan learned to do.

I mean, maybe what you saw was a raw 4* recruit that helped Pikiell out by reclassifying to come here a year early? Maybe now his redshirt year will allow him to grow into his potential? I guess we'll see!

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Was up at the Rack the other day & Douc was shooting shot after shot from around 20', alone & then Kiss came & was feeding him. Also shooting free throws. Has a nice touch.

Making a shot in an empty gym with no defender and making a shot in the heat of battle with a guy in your face are completely different entities.

 

[rudad02]

Making a shot in an empty gym with no defender and making a shot in the heat of battle with a guy in your face are completely different entities.

You don't say!

 

[knights1212]

Doucoure was not that bad on free throws. He was 20-33 for 60.6 % as a freshman. For much of the year he was close to 70 %.

 

[RUChoppin]

Doucoure was not that bad on free throws. He was 20-33 for 60.6 % as a freshman. For much of the year he was close to 70 %.

It's also a very small sample size - he was just 20/33 overall as a freshman in 444 minutes and 105 shots (one FT every 13 min of game time and every 3.2 shots). By comparison, Carter was 27/38 last year in 392 min and 85 shots (one FT for every 10 min and every 2.2 shots).

 

[RUsojo]

You don't say!

I hardly ever saw Corey Chandler miss when I was playing pickup in the barn. 15ft 20ft 25ft 30 ft didn’t matter. He was insane.

For some reason he would always back rim everything in games. Dude could always get his shot off though.

 

[RUonBrain]

Making a shot in an empty gym with no defender and making a shot in the heat of battle with a guy in your face are completely different entities.

Wow!

Learn something new every day!!!


Have you ever seen a guy miss shot after shot in practice, then make a high % during a game?

Which would you prefer?
Guy who can shoot in practice, or a guy who can’t?

 

[rudad02]

I hardly ever saw Corey Chandler miss when I was playing pickup in the barn. 15ft 20ft 25ft 30 ft didn’t matter. He was insane.

For some reason he would always back rim everything in games. Dude could always get his shot off though.

I didn't say anything about his success rate one way or the other. Said that I saw him shooting mucho & that he had a nice touch.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Wow!

Learn something new every day!!!


Have you ever seen a guy miss shot after shot in practice, then make a high % during a game?

Which would you prefer?
Guy who can shoot in practice, or a guy who can’t?

Everyone in D1 can shoot in practice. I can find 10 guys at my local pickup that can shoot lights out when they're standing around. It means nothing.

Remember when a bunch of people on the board got their panties all wet when they released a practice video of Issa making 10 three-pointers in a row? "Wow!! He's going to be a great shooter!!" How'd that work out for him? He was mediocre at best.

It's what's between the ears that makes you a baller. Issa never had it, and I have serious doubts about Doucoure.