Estate related car insurance question

[DJ Spanky]

I have a friend who lost his mom over the summer and is executor of her estate. She had a car that he is looking to sell, and another mutual friend (we'll call her Mary) is interested in getting the car for her son. Mary borrowed the car, has driven it and has had a mechanic look at it. My friend has been continuing to pay the insurance on the car from the estate, however, he now is not sure if the insurance will actually cover anything if Mary gets in an accident with that car. This is out of my ballpark, so I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this. He's asked Mary to park the car until he finds out for sure. He is concerned about calling the insurance company directly as they may cancel on the spot.

It's complicated because Mary wants her son to get the title to the car, and he's in another state. The preferred method would be for the car to go directly to him, but he can't come and get it. (Just out of school, new job, can't take time off before the holidays, etc.) She'd like to avoid having to buy the car, then sell the car to her son. i.e., 2 separate transactions.

So a couple of questions:

1) Can the estate continue to maintain the insurance on the car with his mom having passed?

(I know when handling my mom's estate a decade ago, for the home insurance the insurance company jacked the rates (almost 6X) because the house was unoccupied. But it was home vs. car insurance.)

2) Would Mary be able to get temporary insurance on the car even though she doesn't own it? She still needs to have her mechanic do a bit of work, then was thinking she could drive it out to her son with the title, at which point it becomes his problem.

(She is going to call her broker tomorrow, but would like to know if it's possible and how to approach it.)

3) Would my friend be able to sign the title over as executor of the estate without any issue?

Appreciate any information folks can share.

 

[mdk01]

I have a friend who lost his mom over the summer and is executor of her estate. She had a car that he is looking to sell, and another mutual friend (we'll call her Mary) is interested in getting the car for her son. Mary borrowed the car, has driven it and has had a mechanic look at it. My friend has been continuing to pay the insurance on the car from the estate, however, he now is not sure if the insurance will actually cover anything if Mary gets in an accident with that car. This is out of my ballpark, so I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this. He's asked Mary to park the car until he finds out for sure. He is concerned about calling the insurance company directly as they may cancel on the spot.

It's complicated because Mary wants her son to get the title to the car, and he's in another state. The preferred method would be for the car to go directly to him, but he can't come and get it. (Just out of school, new job, can't take time off before the holidays, etc.) She'd like to avoid having to buy the car, then sell the car to her son. i.e., 2 separate transactions.

So a couple of questions:

1) Can the estate continue to maintain the insurance on the car with his mom having passed?

(I know when handling my mom's estate a decade ago, for the home insurance the insurance company jacked the rates (almost 6X) because the house was unoccupied. But it was home vs. car insurance.)

2) Would Mary be able to get temporary insurance on the car even though she doesn't own it? She still needs to have her mechanic do a bit of work, then was thinking she could drive it out to her son with the title, at which point it becomes his problem.

(She is going to call her broker tomorrow, but would like to know if it's possible and how to approach it.)

3) Would my friend be able to sign the title over as executor of the estate without any issue?

Appreciate any information folks can share.

Can only answer #3. As executor he can sign it over.

 

[RU-Kidding]

Can only answer #3. As executor he can sign it over

I'll defer to the experts but here's what my insurance agent once told me...Remember it's the car that is insured. Coverage generally remains in effect if an occasional user not living with the owner drives the car with the owners permission.

However, if that individual drives the car on a regular basis then that person should be added to the car policy or risk denial of coverage in the event of an accident. This is why the policy likely requires the owner to name regular drivers of the car. If you misrepresent the facts, coverage could be voided.

 

[Unionst]

1. The policy should be changed to “The estate of Mom”. The premium almost surely would not increase because the carrier’s rating model would assume less use of the vehicle.
2. Mary has coverage as a permissive user of the vehicle. Additionally, if she has her own auto policy or is a resident family member of someone who does, that policy also provides coverage on an excess basis, I.e. after Mom’s policy has paid out it’s limit Of insurance.

So get the name changed and this should go smoothly. If you would like to see #2 in writing, go the the Liability Insuring Agreement and read the “covered persons” Section. It’s actually not that hard to follow.

 

[tom1944]

Call the insurance company and ask

 

[Extra Point]

As executor, he is basically his Mom and can do any insurance or financial transactions that his Mom could do. But he is unwise making a deal with Mary. If she can't afford to buy it, he should sell it to someone who can. He can sell it fast to Carvana. Letting Mary drive the car without changing the registration risks having the estate sued, if Mary has an accident and badly injures someone. If I was him I would tell her that she can't use the car without buying it outright. The son issue is irrelevant, she can do what she pleases with the car after she buys it and registers it in her name.

 

[DJ Spanky]

As executor, he is basically his Mom and can do any insurance or financial transactions that his Mom could do. But he is unwise making a deal with Mary. If she can't afford to buy it, he should sell it to someone who can.

Where did you get that? She can very well afford it, but the car is old (although with low mileage) and should be inspected by a mechanic to make sure that it's sound. I know the mechanic did some minor work, and she needs to get it back to him to replace a mirror or something. She wants a final check by the mechanic before she buys it. Other than that it's a done deal.

 

[RUtix4me]

Call the insurance company and ask

Weak answer, he needs to use the best answer he gets from the football board! What are you thinking?

 

[ClassOf02]

1. The policy should be changed to “The estate of Mom”. The premium almost surely would not increase because the carrier’s rating model would assume less use of the vehicle.
2. Mary has coverage as a permissive user of the vehicle. Additionally, if she has her own auto policy or is a resident family member of someone who does, that policy also provides coverage on an excess basis, I.e. after Mom’s policy has paid out it’s limit Of insurance.

So get the name changed and this should go smoothly. If you would like to see #2 in writing, go the the Liability Insuring Agreement and read the “covered persons” Section. It’s actually not that hard to follow.

This is all the advice OP needs. Spot on.

 

[Joey Bacala]

Park it until Mary writes you a check.

 

[Unionst]

Weak answer, he needs to use the best answer he gets from the football board! What are you thinking?

Actually, he had already gotten the correct answer from me. 😀 Sometimes you can find a real expert on a football board - just not necessarily anyone with football expertise though …

 

[RUinPinehurst]

Park it until Mary writes you a check.

Check must be made out to the estate of Mom, though. Not the OP.

 

[rutgersal]

It will depend on the policy, but Geico had a specific article in its magazine stating that someone like Mary wouldn’t be covered if she were to get into an accident, so he’s taking a chance.

The friend should call the insurance company and tell them that the parent passed away, and that he needs the insurance policy to cover the estate. Yes, they might cancel the policy and reissue one in his name. Every company has its own processes and rules.

Or he can roll the dice and let Mary take the car to the mechanic.

 

[Shelby65]

Does the engine turnover ? Too risky unless the other driver’s name is Wagner.

 

[Unionst]

It will depend on the policy, but Geico had a specific article in its magazine stating that someone like Mary wouldn’t be covered if she were to get into an accident, so he’s taking a chance.

The friend should call the insurance company and tell them that the parent passed away, and that he needs the insurance policy to cover the estate. Yes, they might cancel the policy and reissue one in his name. Every company has its own processes and rules.

Or he can roll the dice and let Mary take the car to the mechanic.

Al, are you in the insurance business- because you don’t know what you’re talking about regarding coverage. I suspect you are misinterpreting the Geico article. The correct answers have already been given by an SVP (me, retired) who was in charge of underwriting and product development for a major insurer for many, many years. There is no need for you to add confusion Where there was none.

 

[rutgersal]

Al, are you in the insurance business- because you don’t know what you’re talking about regarding coverage. I suspect you are misinterpreting the Geico article. The correct answers have already been given by an SVP (me, retired) who was in charge of underwriting and product development for a major insurer for many, many years. There is no need for you to add confusion Where there was none.

Don’t try to big time me. I’ve dealt with much higher titles than yours.

I don’t care what your title is. Do you have the persons policy in front of you? You should have the sophistication to know that what is covered is specifically spelled out in the policy, which is also a contract. You don’t know what’s in the holders policy. You’re speculating based on your past experience.

Geico had a specific magazine article, which they distributed themselves, to say that they would not pay in instances where someone lent their car to someone else, and that person got into an accident.

 

[Unionst]

Don’t try to big time me. I’ve dealt with much higher titles than yours.

I don’t care what your title is. Do you have the persons policy in front of you? You should have the sophistication to know that what is covered is specifically spelled out in the policy, which is also a contract. You don’t know what’s in the holders policy. You’re speculating based on your past experience.

Geico had a specific magazine article, which they distributed themselves, to say that they would not pay in instances where someone lent their car to someone else, and that person got into an accident.

Al, i Never mentioned my experience in this thread until you forced me too. Again, I suspect you have misinterpreted the Geico article as that approach you described is contrary to industry practice. Auto policies are commodities; any differences between companies are cosmetic only. Coverage for permissive users has been a standard for the industry since the first auto policies. A state regulator is unlikely to approve any policies that don’t provide that coverage. I am hardly speculating on what’s in the person’s policy. They are all virtually the same. Just to piss you off a bit more about me going “big time” on you, I have been an expert witness in several legal actions (federal and state) regarding insurance policy language. knowing and understanding this stuff was my entire career. Please don’t give advice on things you don’t understand.

 

[RUBubba]

We have this situation come up quite often. Very rarely will the policy be changed to "The Estate of" on an auto policy. Homeowners? Yes. Auto? No. Since the insurance policy follows the registration, you are not going to re-register the car in the Estate of...

Yes, the estate can maintain the policy, pay the premiums.. BUT, they can also be held responsible if Mary gets into an accident with the car since they provided the vehicle to her. Nine out of ten times, the person driving the car is a relative, usually alreay listed on the policy, but not always. My advice would be to have Mary buy the car outright, or get it back from her. If she has to go through two transactions, so be it. That is not your concern.

Mary can not get temporary insurance unless she is the owner of the vehicle. Again, insurance follows the owner.


And I agree that there is a misunderstanding about the Geico article. The car can be loaned to whomever, though if the driver will have full time access, they need to be listed on the policy. The company can and will balk if a non relative is added, and they will also question where the car is garaged etc.

I would love to see that Geico article.

 

[rutgersal]

Al, i Never mentioned my experience in this thread until you forced me too. Again, I suspect you have misinterpreted the Geico article as that approach you described is contrary to industry practice. Auto policies are commodities; any differences between companies are cosmetic only. Coverage for permissive users has been a standard for the industry since the first auto policies. A state regulator is unlikely to approve any policies that don’t provide that coverage. I am hardly speculating on what’s in the person’s policy. They are all virtually the same. Just to piss you off a bit more about me going “big time” on you, I have been an expert witness in several legal actions (federal and state) regarding insurance policy language. knowing and understanding this stuff was my entire career. Please don’t give advice on things you don’t understand.

You are speculating because you don’t have the policy in front of you. Named driver policies do not include permissive use. These policies have a lower premium.

Insurance companies will cover anything as long as the appropriate premium is paid to cover the additional risk that is being taken.

 

[Unionst]

You are speculating because you don’t have the policy in front of you. Named driver policies do not include permissive use.

Insurance companies will cover anything as long as the appropriate premium is paid to cover the additional risk that is being taken.

This is insurance 101, and something that seems to have escaped you, Mr. SVP.

Al, I have not called you names, but I guarantee my knowledge of insurance policy Language and products dwarfs yours. As I said, all personal auto policies are alike. Standardization is key for the industry and the regulators.You might also note that I pointed out the policy provision the OP could refer to if they didn’t trust me. The named driver exception you cite is an extreme one off. You’re now doing anything you can to win an argument. I stand by the advice I gave the OP. If he’s still paying attention to this ridiculous thread I’m sure he’s decided which of our opinions is to be trusted.

 

[RUBubba]

Couple of things that could explain the difference of opinions here...

One, different states. Are we all talking about NJ auto insurance here?

Two, different types of policies. Standard auto policy vs Non-owned auto vs Basic Auto policy. I have VERY little experience with Non-owned and no experience with a Basic, so perhaps their language is different, and perhaps that is what the Geico article was referencing.

 

[DJ Spanky]

One, different states. Are we all talking about NJ auto insurance here?

Two, different types of policies. Standard auto policy vs Non-owned auto vs Basic Auto policy. I have VERY little experience with Non-owned and no experience with a Basic, so perhaps their language is different, and perhaps that is what the Geico article was referencing.

It's a standard NJ auto policy.

 

[RUBubba]

Then what unionst and I said apply, though I disagree with him about changing the name on the policy to The Estate of...

 

[Unionst]

Then what unionst and I said apply, though I disagree with him about changing the name on the policy to The Estate of...

Either way works.

 

[Extra Point]

Where did you get that? She can very well afford it, but the car is old (although with low mileage) and should be inspected by a mechanic to make sure that it's sound. I know the mechanic did some minor work, and she needs to get it back to him to replace a mirror or something. She wants a final check by the mechanic before she buys it. Other than that it's a done deal.

I said that because she sounds hesitant to buy it. She test drove it, then she paid a mechanic to look it over and he must have said it was sound, she is going to go back to the mechanic to have a part replaced, then she says it's for her son and wants her son to buy it directly, this tells me that there is something wrong and I assumed she doesn't have the money. What other reason for her not buying it on the spot is there?

 

[Extra Point]

Maybe she is just saying that she is going to the mechanic to replace a part, and she is actually going to use the car as a get away after robbing a bank 😄 (just joking)

 

[DJ Spanky]

I said that because she sounds hesitant to buy it. She test drove it, then she paid a mechanic to look it over and he must have said it was sound, she is going to go back to the mechanic to have a part replaced, then she says it's for her son and wants her son to buy it directly, this tells me that there is something wrong and I assumed she doesn't have the money. What other reason for her not buying it on the spot is there?

Jesus, project much? She has the money, she just doesn't want to buy something that will end up costing her a lot of money to fix. Even after she robs the bank, she'll need to pay off the getaway driver so really won't realize much money from that.

 

[czxqa]

It's a standard NJ auto policy.

OMG! All this back and forth. Your friend can just sign the title and Mary can go down to the DMV and get a new one in the son's name. He doesn't have to be there. I've done it myself, in both NJ and Pa. She can register it too. The DMV doesn't care who submits the paperwork as long as she has proof of insurance, the check and the paperwork is in order.

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

OMG! All this back and forth. Your friend can just sign the title and Mary can go down to the DMV and get a new one in the son's name. He doesn't have to be there. I've done it myself, in both NJ and Pa. She can register it too. The DMV doesn't care who submits the paperwork as long as she has proof of insurance, the check and the paperwork is in order.

And a notorized power of attorney form. Tough with out of state son . They do care who does the paperwork.NJ blows.

 

[DJ Spanky]

OMG! All this back and forth. Your friend can just sign the title and Mary can go down to the DMV and get a new one in the son's name. He doesn't have to be there. I've done it myself, in both NJ and Pa. She can register it too. The DMV doesn't care who submits the paperwork as long as she has proof of insurance, the check and the paperwork is in order.

So, wait, she can register and get a title in a different state under her son's name at the NJ DMV???? Wow, I didn't know they had that type of reach!

I know he can sign the title. My friend knows he can sign the title. If Mary were buying the car and keeping it in state it's a no brainer. But that's not the case here.

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

Didn't know other guy was permanent out of state. Just not here now to do transaction. Same problem exists whether op's friend is nice or not. I'm in the take it back till it's sold camp.

 

[czxqa]

So, wait, she can register and get a title in a different state under her son's name at the NJ DMV???? Wow, I didn't know they had that type of reach!

I know he can sign the title. My friend knows he can sign the title. If Mary were buying the car and keeping it in state it's a no brainer. But that's not the case here.

Then what's the problem? When he takes the car to his state, he can re-register it there. Why would anyone want to keep paying the insurance on a car someone else has taken possession of? When my dad died, my mom had to change the policy and re-register the car to take his name off both. Your story gets more fugazy by the minute.

 

[mdk01]

Then what's the problem? When he takes the car to his state, he can re-register it there. Why would anyone want to keep paying the insurance on a car someone else has taken possession of? When my dad died, my mom had to change the policy and re-register the car to take his name off both. Your story gets more fugazy by the minute.

Question. If it's sold out if state do the NJ plates have to be turned in? On board with simply registering it in the other state.

 

[RU4Real]

Is she hot?

 

[RUsundevil]

Lots of disagreement here so let me just add my 2 cents. I know absolutely nothing about this topic so you should not listen to my advice.
Funny loophole on an entirely different topic: take your motorcycle driving test on a scooter. It's the same test and license. I had an M on my license for a few years without having the slightest clue how to ride a hog.