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OT: Retiring early

The US gov'ment isn't rated AAA anymore, so why would SS be? This has been a good discussion and the math is clear to take early and use if needed or invest if not needed.

Like ScarletNut mentioned before, are you using a bucket strategy for retirement?
Just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true. Math has been done and you are wrong. Stop telling people the wrong things.

ETA you can have a personal preference and that’s fine. Everyone will have to make their own decisions based on their circumstances. What we are talking about is set of data that people should use to make that decision.
 
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Just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true. Math has been done and you are wrong. Stop telling people the wrong things.
LOL. Post the correct math and you may have a point. Don’t yell at me for doing the wrong calculations.

Math is clear. Taking the money at 62 and investing is > waiting to 70 and investing. You never catch up.
 
LOL. Post the correct math and you may have a point. Don’t yell at me for doing the wrong calculations.

Math is clear. Taking the money at 62 and investing is > waiting to 70 and investing. You never catch up.

Why don't ur examples include income taxes?

Because you have 24k+ posts, which is the 'one' that u are referring to?

Do survivor benefits matter for your spouse?

Does putting every penny you have into equities conflict with the advice to diversify with fixed income products?

Why don't advisers (mine) who have CFP qualifications and Harvard MBAs not agree with you?

Does anyone on the board get all of their personal financial planning advice here?
 
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Why doesn't ur examples include income taxes?

Because you have 24k+ posts, which is the 'one' that u are referring to?

Do survivor benefits matter for your spouse?

Does putting every penny you have into equities conflict with the advice to diversify with fixed income products?

Why don't advisers (mine) who have CFP qualifications and Harvard MBAs not agree with you?

Does anyone on the board get all of their personal financial planning advice here?

While capable of intelligent posts, at his core he’s an obnoxious know-it-all.

Do not engage.
 
every scenario is different,.

.hard to argue with the below as your health is the variable you are unable to control..

https://www.fidelity.com/insights/retirement/social-security-early

The downside of collecting Social Security at age 62
Most people take Social Security at age 62 even though they are giving up 30% of their future income.

"If you're still working at age 62 or you have other sources of income, it might make sense to wait until full retirement age or age 70 to take Social Security," says Amy Colton, founder of the Austin, Texas-based firm Your Divorce Made Simple and co-founder of Forefront Wealth Partners. "If there are investment accounts, annuities, pensions or a reverse mortgage that they can tap into, it might make sense to wait."

If you opt to take Social Security benefits at 62, you'll receive the lowest possible monthly payouts the federal government pays out.

"The downside of doing so is longevity," Henry says. "If you live to be older than the break-even age for having waited, you will have lost out on the higher payout you would have received by waiting. However, you simply cannot predict how long you will live, so we advise taking Social Security as soon as you stop working."


Full article......................



There's no perfect formula for deciding when to take Social Security, which is unfortunate given the critical need to align one's Social Security payout date with their retirement income needs.

There are, however, plenty of good Social Security timing scenarios to choose from. First, it's important to know the parameters and payout rates of your Social Security plan.

For starters, you can start collecting Social Security benefits as early as age 62. However, your benefit amount will be reduced if you start collecting payments before your full retirement age, which is generally age 66 or 67.

If you take Social Security distributions beginning at age 62, you'll get 25% smaller payouts if your full retirement age is 66 and 30% smaller payouts if your full retirement age is 67. Waiting to claim Social Security often pays off in the long run, but there are also several reasons to start Social Security payments at the earliest possible age.

Here are some legitimate reasons to take Social Security distributions at age 62, according to financial experts.

  • You have health issues.
  • You're done working for good.
  • You need cash to cover your expenses.
  • You're facing a financial emergency.
  • You need to get out of debt.
  • You're retiring early.
  • You want to maximize spousal benefits.

You have health issues

Deciding when to take Social Security benefits is an important decision, especially if you have a health condition that may shorten your lifespan.

"In that scenario, it might make sense to take benefits at age 62," says Chuck Czajka, certified Social Security claiming strategist and founder of Macro Money Concepts in Stuart, Florida. "Remember, benefits are paid for life and cease upon death."

However, if you are married and receive significantly larger Social Security payments than your spouse, you might want to consider delaying Social Security to leave a bigger survivor's payment to your spouse.

"Another good reason to claim at 62 is a situation in which your spouse also can claim Social Security and the survivor benefit is greater than what you may receive today," says Paul Tyler, chief marketing officer at Nassau Financial Group in Hartford, Connecticut, adding that it's always best to consult with a financial advisor about your unique situation.

You're done working for good

Another reason to take benefits early is if you decide you are not going to work any longer.

"If you continue to work and earn over $21,240, for every $2 you earn over this amount, Social Security will withhold $1," Czajka says. "However, if you decide not to work and have enough retirement income, you may want to take your benefit early."

You need cash to cover your expenses

Social Security recipients need to consider three key issues – everyday living expenses, current savings and long-term health – before collecting Social Security benefits early.

"If your current everyday living expenses surpass your Social Security benefit amount, you may not have the luxury of waiting for a larger payout," says Lindsey Crossmier, a financial writer with RetireGuide.com. "You may need that money now to live comfortably."

You're facing a financial emergency

If you have experienced a financial emergency such as a layoff and are at least age 62, it can make sense to sign up for Social Security early. You could also use the funds to launch your next phase of life.

"If you need the money to start up a new business venture, then taking cash out of Social Security can be a good idea," says Jody D'Agostini, a certified financial planner with Equitable Advisors in Morristown, New Jersey. "This financial boost may help you launch your next chapter of earnings, as it can support you until you get off the ground."

If you recoup some of the money, you can also repay your Social Security benefit within the first year without penalty, which will allow your future Social Security benefit to accumulate.

You need to get out of debt

If you have debt that needs to be repaid and you are unable to increase your earnings or take money from savings, consider taking Social Security payments sooner. "That's especially the case if you have mushrooming interest charges," D'Agostini says. "I would, however, try first to consolidate the debt and look to lower interest charges."

You're retiring early

If you want to retire early and need supplemental income, taking Social Security payouts early can help.

"That's especially the case if you're eager to retire and have limited alternative income sources," says Tarek El Ali, founder at Smart Insurance Agents, a Chicago-based national insurance agency that sells Medicare plans and other insurance plans. "In that event, taking benefits early can provide necessary funds to support your lifestyle."

"Taking early Social Security benefits can also provide an early retiree the freedom to pursue part-time work or hobbies without the constraints of full-time employment," El Ali says.

You want to maximize spousal benefits

If you're married, when to collect Social Security becomes a joint decision.

"If your spouse took extended time off of work for child care or any other reason, their Social Security payouts will already be less than yours no matter what since they have contributed less over time. So you should wait to collect and receive larger payouts," says Mark Henry, founder and CEO at Alloy Wealth Management, in Greenville, South Carolina. "If your spouse outlives you, you can direct your Social Security payments to them after your death. This is also a good idea if your spouse is younger than you."
 
Why doesn't ur examples include income taxes?

Because you have 24k+ posts, which is the 'one' that u are referring to?

Do survivor benefits matter for your spouse?

Does putting every penny you have into equities conflict with the advice to diversify with fixed income products?

Why don't advisers (mine) who have CFP qualifications and Harvard MBAs not agree with you?

Does anyone on the board get all of their personal financial planning advice here?
Feel free to add taxes to my example. I doubt it will make a big deal since all the SS money is being invested whether you start at 62 or 70. Yes, 100% equities with this money, since it is extra on top of retirement savings.
 
This was a great thread until this pissing match started. Please end it.
Agreed, investment bears get very angry when their ultra conversative beliefs are challenged. Time to move on.

I would like to hear from folks in retirement. Are you using a bucket approach or something else?

 
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every scenario is different,.

.hard to argue with the below as your health is the variable you are unable to control..

https://www.fidelity.com/insights/retirement/social-security-early

The downside of collecting Social Security at age 62
Most people take Social Security at age 62 even though they are giving up 30% of their future income.

"If you're still working at age 62 or you have other sources of income, it might make sense to wait until full retirement age or age 70 to take Social Security," says Amy Colton, founder of the Austin, Texas-based firm Your Divorce Made Simple and co-founder of Forefront Wealth Partners. "If there are investment accounts, annuities, pensions or a reverse mortgage that they can tap into, it might make sense to wait."

If you opt to take Social Security benefits at 62, you'll receive the lowest possible monthly payouts the federal government pays out.

"The downside of doing so is longevity," Henry says. "If you live to be older than the break-even age for having waited, you will have lost out on the higher payout you would have received by waiting. However, you simply cannot predict how long you will live, so we advise taking Social Security as soon as you stop working."


Full article......................




There's no perfect formula for deciding when to take Social Security, which is unfortunate given the critical need to align one's Social Security payout date with their retirement income needs.

There are, however, plenty of good Social Security timing scenarios to choose from. First, it's important to know the parameters and payout rates of your Social Security plan.

For starters, you can start collecting Social Security benefits as early as age 62. However, your benefit amount will be reduced if you start collecting payments before your full retirement age, which is generally age 66 or 67.

If you take Social Security distributions beginning at age 62, you'll get 25% smaller payouts if your full retirement age is 66 and 30% smaller payouts if your full retirement age is 67. Waiting to claim Social Security often pays off in the long run, but there are also several reasons to start Social Security payments at the earliest possible age.

Here are some legitimate reasons to take Social Security distributions at age 62, according to financial experts.

  • You have health issues.
  • You're done working for good.
  • You need cash to cover your expenses.
  • You're facing a financial emergency.
  • You need to get out of debt.
  • You're retiring early.
  • You want to maximize spousal benefits.

You have health issues

Deciding when to take Social Security benefits is an important decision, especially if you have a health condition that may shorten your lifespan.

"In that scenario, it might make sense to take benefits at age 62," says Chuck Czajka, certified Social Security claiming strategist and founder of Macro Money Concepts in Stuart, Florida. "Remember, benefits are paid for life and cease upon death."

However, if you are married and receive significantly larger Social Security payments than your spouse, you might want to consider delaying Social Security to leave a bigger survivor's payment to your spouse.

"Another good reason to claim at 62 is a situation in which your spouse also can claim Social Security and the survivor benefit is greater than what you may receive today," says Paul Tyler, chief marketing officer at Nassau Financial Group in Hartford, Connecticut, adding that it's always best to consult with a financial advisor about your unique situation.

You're done working for good

Another reason to take benefits early is if you decide you are not going to work any longer.

"If you continue to work and earn over $21,240, for every $2 you earn over this amount, Social Security will withhold $1," Czajka says. "However, if you decide not to work and have enough retirement income, you may want to take your benefit early."

You need cash to cover your expenses

Social Security recipients need to consider three key issues – everyday living expenses, current savings and long-term health – before collecting Social Security benefits early.

"If your current everyday living expenses surpass your Social Security benefit amount, you may not have the luxury of waiting for a larger payout," says Lindsey Crossmier, a financial writer with RetireGuide.com. "You may need that money now to live comfortably."

You're facing a financial emergency

If you have experienced a financial emergency such as a layoff and are at least age 62, it can make sense to sign up for Social Security early. You could also use the funds to launch your next phase of life.

"If you need the money to start up a new business venture, then taking cash out of Social Security can be a good idea," says Jody D'Agostini, a certified financial planner with Equitable Advisors in Morristown, New Jersey. "This financial boost may help you launch your next chapter of earnings, as it can support you until you get off the ground."

If you recoup some of the money, you can also repay your Social Security benefit within the first year without penalty, which will allow your future Social Security benefit to accumulate.

You need to get out of debt

If you have debt that needs to be repaid and you are unable to increase your earnings or take money from savings, consider taking Social Security payments sooner. "That's especially the case if you have mushrooming interest charges," D'Agostini says. "I would, however, try first to consolidate the debt and look to lower interest charges."

You're retiring early

If you want to retire early and need supplemental income, taking Social Security payouts early can help.

"That's especially the case if you're eager to retire and have limited alternative income sources," says Tarek El Ali, founder at Smart Insurance Agents, a Chicago-based national insurance agency that sells Medicare plans and other insurance plans. "In that event, taking benefits early can provide necessary funds to support your lifestyle."

"Taking early Social Security benefits can also provide an early retiree the freedom to pursue part-time work or hobbies without the constraints of full-time employment," El Ali says.

You want to maximize spousal benefits

If you're married, when to collect Social Security becomes a joint decision.

"If your spouse took extended time off of work for child care or any other reason, their Social Security payouts will already be less than yours no matter what since they have contributed less over time. So you should wait to collect and receive larger payouts," says Mark Henry, founder and CEO at Alloy Wealth Management, in Greenville, South Carolina. "If your spouse outlives you, you can direct your Social Security payments to them after your death. This is also a good idea if your spouse is younger than you."

Great post.
 
This might be a dumb question regarding Social Security. I'm 52 now, so I'm still a ways away. I know about the different payouts at 62/67/70. What if you choose to start taking it at 65 or 68? Is it then based on the age number threshold you've passed already? IE, you get the 62 y/o amount if you take it at 65.

I hope that makes sense.
 
Agreed, investment bears get very angry when their ultra conversative beliefs are challenged. Time to move on.

I would like to hear from folks in retirement. Are you using a bucket approach or something else?

TK, I actually think you are right in general and that equities are the way to go in any scenario to maximize ur upside. My choice is to take some chips off the table while I am ahead. Either way, the coffee shop will take my cash.

That being said, one of my clients, a 38 year old woman with a super-Director job, with four children under 10 and a great husband, asked me how she should invest eight years ago. I said all equities.
 
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TK, I actually think you are right in general and that equities are the way to go in any scenario to maximize ur upside. My choice is to take some chips off the table while I am ahead. Either way, the coffee shop will take my cash.

That being said, one of my clients, a 38 year old woman with a super-Director job, with four children under 10 and a great husband, asked me how she should invest eight years ago. I said all equities.
Definitely agreed. It's fun to argue on a message board, but obviously, when it comes to finance and investments, it's never just about math. It's also about peace of mind and knowing what type of risk you are comfortable with. If certain decisions are reasonable and make you sleep better at night, that's the right decision for a given person.
 
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LOL. Post the correct math and you may have a point. Don’t yell at me for doing the wrong calculations.

Math is clear. Taking the money at 62 and investing is > waiting to 70 and investing. You never catch up.
And you are absolutely spot on. I tried to explain this 10 years ago but what happens is people get cold feet , over estimate their needs, and figure they’ll never have enough. I didn’t have 2 million but it’s been a joyous 9 years so far. I would worry more about our health from catastrophic illness. That’s the key. Still making money on the original investments and still spending sensibly.
 
And you are absolutely spot on. I tried to explain this 10 years ago but what happens is people get cold feet , over estimate their needs, and figure they’ll never have enough. I didn’t have 2 million but it’s been a joyous 9 years so far. I would worry more about our health from catastrophic illness. That’s the key. Still making money on the original investments and still spending sensibly.
I've seen this with my parents.

They saved enough to be comfortable and then Dad was diagnosed with Parkinson's.

Thank goodness they started to travel when my sister and I were still in college.

If they had waited until they had 2MM, it would have been too late...
 
This might be a dumb question regarding Social Security. I'm 52 now, so I'm still a ways away. I know about the different payouts at 62/67/70. What if you choose to start taking it at 65 or 68? Is it then based on the age number threshold you've passed already? IE, you get the 62 y/o amount if you take it at 65.

I hope that makes sense.
Not a dumb question.
The SS payout actually changes by a few percent by the month you start receiving payments. So you actually can choose to start on any month from your 62nd birthday until your 70th birthday.
All amounts are based on a percentage of your benefit amount at full retirement age.
 
My parents were able to travel for the first 15 years or so of their retirement.

They needed the social security to do the types of trips they took so while waiting to 70 would mean more money today it would have been a totally different retirement without those funds at 62.
 
I admire those with the confidence to suggest investing in 100% equities during retirement. No question the upside is tremendous.
But for me the stress of watching those investments, especially with the market volatility we have, would probably shorten my life.

My plan includes annuities as well as a mix of growth and fixed income mutual funds as I approach retirement. I’ve even split the annuities between a couple different ins cos to protect against a mutual benefit life situation.
 
I've seen this with my parents.

They saved enough to be comfortable and then Dad was diagnosed with Parkinson's.

Thank goodness they started to travel when my sister and I were still in college.

If they had waited until they had 2MM, it would have been too late...
Wishing your dad did not go through that. It is however one of my wife’s and my biggest concern. If you have relatively good health in retirement you are way ahead of the game. Money is great , Important , necessary as we age but it’s useless if you are unable to use it. Save, spend enjoy every moment.
 
The Medicare cost would be Medicare Part B $175 + Medicare supplemental $178+ drug plan 15 and eye plan $15= $383 month X 2 = $766 month for a couple. That’s assuming that you take supplemental instead of Medicare advantage where you may have no premiums. Medicare Advantage plans now come with eye and drug coverage in most cases. If you have assets which you do then you probably need supplemental then you don’t need to worry about your medical insurance. I believe before 65, your private insurance may cost about $800 or $1,600 a couple. For individual with lower income Obama Care might lower your premiums but your rental income is probably too high.
More like $2500-$3000 per month for a couple. My company retiree health care pre-65 pays about half and still costs me about $1500
 
Feel free to add taxes to my example. I doubt it will make a big deal since all the SS money is being invested whether you start at 62 or 70. Yes, 100% equities with this money, since it is extra on top of retirement savings.
If you are a married couple, it is a bad idea to collect at 62 because if the higher earning spouse dies the lower earning spouse will collect their full benefit so you are buying longevity insurance for your spouse by delaying.
 
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If you are a married couple, it is a bad idea to collect at 62 because if the higher earning spouse dies the lower earning spouse will collect their full benefit so you are buying longevity insurance for your spouse by delaying.
Collect at 62, invest, your spouse gets more money upon your passing, so don't wait. But let's move on from this conversation. We spent a lot of time on it already.
 
More like $2500-$3000 per month for a couple. My company retiree health care pre-65 pays about half and still costs me about $1500
I’m assuming you are referring to the private insurance before you reach 65. My experience was $800 a month for an individual and this was another experience from another poster, 29PAS, POST #33, which is basically the same as my experience. I guess if you have better deductible and total out of pocket cost your plan could be more expensive,

My wife retired at 60 and I at 63 and a half - that was a really quick 13 yrs ago for me. After retiring and before Medicare, health insurance cost us $1600 a month and then $800 for her until she turned 65. We never dreamed health insurance would cost that much (until we got close to retirement) but fortunately we'd saved for it.
 
I retired January 2023 and had several offers to provide some financial/tax/bookkeeping services. I make my hours and work conditions so for me I think it’s a great way to be retired. I work about 10 hours a week and tie the work in to surfing the computer.

It has extreme flexibility and I use the entire income for vacations.
 
Started SS at 62. Don’t need the money to live the way I do. Less than 2.5M net worth. Use the extra income to save/take awesome vacations etc…. Member at a real nice private golf club. When/if I’m 85 I highly doubt I’ll have the desire/energy to live the way I do now. So the fact that when I reach my 80’s I will miss out on being above the break even line, so be it. I want to maximize my enjoyment while I can.
 
I admire those with the confidence to suggest investing in 100% equities during retirement. No question the upside is tremendous.
But for me the stress of watching those investments, especially with the market volatility we have, would probably shorten my life.

My plan includes annuities as well as a mix of growth and fixed income mutual funds as I approach retirement. I’ve even split the annuities between a couple different ins cos to protect against a mutual benefit life situation.
Investing 100% in equities once near or during retirement is simply foolish, assuming one has a decent amount saved up/invested more conservatively and a good enough income stream to support a reasonably nice lifestyle. It's simply not worth the risk, since we all know there have been multiple downturns where it took 15-25 years to reach the previous peak. Maybe another one's not coming, but if there is, I'd rather be prepared for it, given maybe 20-30 years left in my life, and protect what I have (with modest growth rates if a major downturn doesn't happen) rather than worrying about getting 7-8% annual returns, which I don't need to live a very nice, comfortable retirement.

032417-djia-chart.png
 
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This might be a dumb question regarding Social Security. I'm 52 now, so I'm still a ways away. I know about the different payouts at 62/67/70. What if you choose to start taking it at 65 or 68? Is it then based on the age number threshold you've passed already? IE, you get the 62 y/o amount if you take it at 65.

I hope that makes sense.
If you go to the SS website, you can see the exact amounts you'll receive based on the age you decide to start collecting. There's a sliding scale that you can move to any age you want.
 
Collect at 62, invest, your spouse gets more money upon your passing, so don't wait. But let's move on from this conversation. We spent a lot of time on it already.
Again, not true. All depends on market performance.
 
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Trying to figure out my life based on my genes is tough. Mom died at 40 and Dad died at 90. Both smoked 2 packs a day entire lives.
Can’t count how many lives Dad lived through with his Purple Hearts and bronze star…most likely, was given more than 9 lol
I'd put you at 85, and take the over if you don't smoke.
 
I'd put you at 85, and take the over if you don't smoke.
I was 10 when Mom died of lung cancer. I swore I would never smoke anything in my life- I have never had a cig/Pot/Vape/Cigar/Pipe...2nd hand smoke of all- yes...
Most people that meet me are surprised I am in my 60's and try to stay in shape- at 5'9- still under 175 so not too bad.
all of my vitals and health measures are super strong and in line. Only issue is a bad back- I figure on 85+ myself and most likely an additional 5-10
 
And you are absolutely spot on. I tried to explain this 10 years ago but what happens is people get cold feet , over estimate their needs, and figure they’ll never have enough. I didn’t have 2 million but it’s been a joyous 9 years so far. I would worry more about our health from catastrophic illness. That’s the key. Still making money on the original investments and still spending sensibly.
Thanks, the math is super easy to figure out. The market is your friend!
 
this discussion is somewhat akin to 15/30 year mortgage term and/or paying off your mortgage early....
Now that is an interesting discussion. I guess is depends on your mortgage rate and how long you want to own/live in the house.
 
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Investing 100% in equities once near or during retirement is simply foolish, assuming one has a decent amount saved up/invested more conservatively and a good enough income stream to support a reasonably nice lifestyle. It's simply not worth the risk, since we all know there have been multiple downturns where it took 15-25 years to reach the previous peak. Maybe another one's not coming, but if there is, I'd rather be prepared for it, given maybe 20-30 years left in my life, and protect what I have (with modest growth rates if a major downturn doesn't happen) rather than worrying about getting 7-8% annual returns, which I don't need to live a very nice, comfortable retirement.

032417-djia-chart.png

I do like the data but I think the issue is it makes people look at the portfolio as a whole vs. investing of their current SS cash flows. Yes if you have a $1MM portfolio at the start of a bad and lengthy bear market, that particular $1MM may take a long time to recover - based on the above data, over a decade in some instances. But, for example, if you were putting monthly cash flows in the S&P 500 during that one 16 year recovery period leading up to 1984 or so, you would have been richly rewarded on the returns of that cash over the next 15 years, and would still be up materially on it even during the next 6 year recovery cycle. So the point is you can be conservative with portions of your overall retirement nest egg, but if you were to invest the monthly SS cash flows a age 62 and continue to do that and hold you'd most likely be way up at age 82.
 
My son told me he was up 29% last year investing more aggressively. But he’s 27.

I was up a little under 7%. Maybe too conservative. And I know we have some experts on here. But I’m 62 and that 7% was a lot. To each his own, I say.
 
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My son told me he was up 29% last year investing more aggressively. But he’s 27.

I was up a little under 7%. Maybe too conservative. And I know we have some experts on here. But I’m 62 and that 7% was a lot. To each his own, I say.
shhhhhh- but i am thinking many experts promising 8% over a 10-20 year period- may be FOS....yes, it can and has happened but...you know what I mean- if you are getting 7% be happy as shit and enjoy it.

Could you imagine if when you were a kid just starting out- someone told you that you would be guaranteed 8% for the next 30 years- How could anyone say so? Unless your name was Madoff
 
My son told me he was up 29% last year investing more aggressively. But he’s 27.

I was up a little under 7%. Maybe too conservative. And I know we have some experts on here. But I’m 62 and that 7% was a lot. To each his own, I say.
Ouch, under 7%? Last year was an amazing year for stocks. But you gotta do what makes you comfortable and sleep well at night. That's priority #1.
 
Ouch, under 7%? Last year was an amazing year for stocks. But you gotta do what makes you comfortable and sleep well at night. That's priority #1.
My 7% had two commas in actual return. You’re kind of an expert. Did you also earn a million in the market last year?

Sorry for the flex but this guy is such a dick.
 
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