Got it from a coach Mr. Know It All. Why don’t you see how it plays out before you give your opinion next time. I cancallyouclueless
Eugene was a leader on the court for this team. His cowardly defection via a tweet after midnight makes me doubt he can be a leader in life.
Regardless, people can rationalize all they want. We lost arguably our best player, and definitely our toughest player by far. However, we will feel the loss most in the lack or depth we now have on the frontline. Johnson, Carter, and Doucoure are all very foul-prone.
Regardless, people can rationalize all they want. We lost arguably our best player, and definitely our toughest player by far. However, we will feel the loss most in the lack or depth we now have on the frontline. Johnson, Carter, and Doucoure are all very foul-prone.
Am I the only one who sees Mathis step right into that toughness role?
I can totally agree with the notion Harper is a more valuable player to us this year than Eugene. However, we both know our best lineup has Harper at 3 and Gene at 4.
My point is not to say Harper isn’t better. My point is to say losing Gene, his skill set, and the depth he would provide is not just a non issue. Totally agree with you on harpers talent though to me he’s not a 4 in this league.
We seem to be of two extremes here... losing Eugene is "no big deal" or "this is the worst thing ever." The answer, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. There will be games next year where we will say, "Man we could have really used Eugene" (and probably Shaq D for that matter). It is never good to lose a senior leader and it is still a horrible stat that the only player to play 4 years for the same coach is Hamady N'Diaye in the past ten years. Plus, Gene was a captain. The new guys are going to have to step up, but with a new assistant leading the defense and two of the better defenders (particularly in the front court) out the door there is going to be a lot of adjustment. I'm sure the new guys will step up, but basketball at the college level isn't just all about offense... not the way Pikiell coaches. Defense and rebounding are still key and that's where we will see the holes. But maybe Harper and Yeboah will step up and we'll be able to outscore teams more often. I expect a lot of three guard line-ups with smaller power forwards (as I think we all do).
Explain how RU was better in the 1st half of the season vs Boston University, Columbia, Wisconsin, Fordham and Seton Hall, when Eugene was completely healthy,.was the 1st option on offense.....explain how the team got better against significantly better competition winning 7 B1G games....was that all Eugene or was that a collection of others getting opportunities and expanding their roles.
Provide some details....we are all watching the same games, same team, sit in the same levels at the RAC....why is this departure different from Nigel Johnson transferring 2 years ago or Corey Sanders leaving early last year. In both cases we leaned on unknowns who never played here before.....why is this departure different....what did Eugene excel at to raise RU as a program in the 1st 14 games, when he was completely healthy???.....was RU better...??
I've added layers upon layers on why this isn't a big deal, why we would be OK with Nigel leaving and we would eventually be a better overall team, without leaning or watching Corey Sanders be the primary option.
Help us out, add details....provide some thoughts....we value your opinions, maybe I'm missing something that isn't there??
I think in any relationship, the head coach absolutely has to to talk to the player or make an attempt, because it's his job to do so and he runs an entire program. I would not expect any different from Pike, who had multiple and numerous conversations with Sanders about staying for his last season as well.
The strange dynamic of the player leaving and we want answers....what's unfortunate is fans want better for RU and yet want stability and no changes.....change only occurs if you get better players. Why is this change bad??
The larger question is how would team chemistry work, if Eugene truly wasn't better 6 months from now in comparison to Yeboah or Harper.....what would Eugene be like, in a potentially reduced role, with less minutes.....maybe he still started games, but the team performed better when he wasn't playing.
That doesn't mean having Eugene off the bench is bad...but let's see what the roster is like at the start of the season.
Honestly, I hope Pikiell flew to Canada to tell Gene “eff you” TO HIS FACE and to remind him how we scheduled a game for him in Canada. Gene was my favorite player the last 2 years, but I cannot accept a team leader defecting on instagram in the middle of the night. If I ever saw him play again, I would boo him. We won’t miss a beat next year without him. I am 100% confident that Harper and Geo will lead this team next year to where we need to be....and yes Mathis will step right in with the toughness factor.
How many wins do you think we get with eo vs without. I struggle seeing a 1 game difference
and both seasons the team still finished under 500...facts
can RU still be above 500 without Gene, sure. But the immediate spin dismissing the impact is where I take issue. I thought we would be better program wise without Corey because its accelerating the timeline and allowing others to prosper but that is year 3..year 4, this program needs to be above 500. Once again posters pinning their hopes on a transfer to provide what Eugene brought...alot of pressure on Yeboah now.
If Eugene sat out 19-20 for surgery, at RU, there is no guarantee that he would stay at RU for the 20-21 season as he would be able to grad transfer without sitting out a year. Why would RU take that risk to allow him to sit out with the possibility he could transfer, after successful surgery?
Omoruyi was hurt midway through last season (left knee dislocation) and again toward the end of last season (left knee hyperextension), and it seems like the argument is being made that he'd somehow never heal, or that there'd be know way he'd make it through next season healthy. Or that he needed a season off and surgery.
I think all of that is pretty rampant speculation. A healthy Omoruyi was a force for us last year (and the end of the year before), and he had grown each year since arriving at Rutgers. He was a "cagey vet" already as a junior, knowing how to work other players and the refs to get calls at times, and played "old man ball" a lot of times with patience and fakes under the basket. When healthy, he could be a force - even while playing undersized at PF - and he had developed a jumper in the early part of last season before being injured.
That said, he would not be 100% for spring workouts, and would still need to recover and rehab his knee back to the condition it was before the injuries. There's rumor (without anything substantiated that I've found) that he wanted to sit out this year to recover, but then there's video posted by him of getting up for a dunk (which doesn't look like his intention is surgery, rest, and rehab). Since I can't confirm any rumors of sitting out, I will dismiss them and assume he'd be in playing shape by November.
A LOT has been speculated, guessed, rumored, fantasized, etc...
1. Using his post-injury performance to speculate on his roster standing next year. That's not really valuable, because it's assuming he'll never be healthy again. He'd be much healthier in October/November of next year than he'd be in April of this year - so, saying he's being beaten 4-5 weeks after his latest injury by Harper/Yeboah may be true, but it isn't that telling vs. what he'd look like in 6 months. He's also been a hugely improved player year to year twice, and there's no reason to think he wouldn't improve further as a senior.
2. Assuming he'd get hurt again next year. No real evidence to support this, since all his injuries were freak incidents that aren't standard. Hard knee on knee contact, hit and over-rotated while in the air, and a wet spot on floor. Any of those things could have caused the same or similar injuries to any of our players - it was his bad luck that he got all three of them. His knee has never given out on its own that we're aware of, and there's no telling that either a) it would suddenly just buckle, or b) another freak incident would happen.
3. Assuming Yeboah would be better than him next year and would take his minutes. Again, no evidence here, but at least there's more to go on. Yeboah was a star at a lower level, and also dealt with an injury last year. He's got a similar frame to Omoruyi, but is much more of a shooter. It's certainly possible that he'd be better than Omoruyi - but I doubt it would have eaten much into Omoruyi's minutes. Harper/Yeboah/Omoruyi could each get 26 min across the 3/4 spots, and that's not even including time Yeboah/Omoruyi might spend at the 5 backing up Johnson. Plenty of minutes to go around, and it would have been really great depth to have.
4. We're somehow better without him. This is just crazy. He's a good player, has proven he's a competitor at this level (especially defensively), and would be a rising senior with 4 years in the program. Anyone taking this position is saying they'd rather Carter/Doucoure get more minutes than Omoruyi, because that's our depth at the 4/5 now.
5. We won't miss a beat without him. Maybe? But next year wasn't about "not missing a beat", it was about growth and challenging for higher ranking in the conference. Having both Yeboah AND Omoruyi was a big jump in talented depth and cause for real optimism that we could make some noise... Yeboah INSTEAD OF Omoruyi being a "wash" doesn't move the needle in the same way.
6. He'd cause team chemistry problems. This has the most potential for me in terms of "maybe this isn't as bad as it seems". If Yeboah and Harper really got more attention and production, and he slipped more into a 6th man role with his 25-28 min, would he have accepted that? I don't know. Did he not gel with the newer players, or not like that he might be pushed to the periphery in some way? I don't know. Was he angry at Pike for bringing Yeboah in, or angry at the team for accepting AY and ribbing him? I don't know. It's possible that any of those things could cause tremors that could crack later in the season and cause problems - and if he wasn't in step with the plan and the team goals, then he may have caused problems if focus were to shift.
Overall, to me, from a numbers perspective, it's definitely a loss - no other way to see it. From a personality/chemistry situation, that might change the nature of the math a bit.
I think all of that is pretty rampant speculation. A healthy Omoruyi was a force for us last year (and the end of the year before), and he had grown each year since arriving at Rutgers. He was a "cagey vet" already as a junior, knowing how to work other players and the refs to get calls at times, and played "old man ball" a lot of times with patience and fakes under the basket. When healthy, he could be a force - even while playing undersized at PF - and he had developed a jumper in the early part of last season before being injured.
That said, he would not be 100% for spring workouts, and would still need to recover and rehab his knee back to the condition it was before the injuries. There's rumor (without anything substantiated that I've found) that he wanted to sit out this year to recover, but then there's video posted by him of getting up for a dunk (which doesn't look like his intention is surgery, rest, and rehab). Since I can't confirm any rumors of sitting out, I will dismiss them and assume he'd be in playing shape by November.
A LOT has been speculated, guessed, rumored, fantasized, etc...
1. Using his post-injury performance to speculate on his roster standing next year. That's not really valuable, because it's assuming he'll never be healthy again. He'd be much healthier in October/November of next year than he'd be in April of this year - so, saying he's being beaten 4-5 weeks after his latest injury by Harper/Yeboah may be true, but it isn't that telling vs. what he'd look like in 6 months. He's also been a hugely improved player year to year twice, and there's no reason to think he wouldn't improve further as a senior.
2. Assuming he'd get hurt again next year. No real evidence to support this, since all his injuries were freak incidents that aren't standard. Hard knee on knee contact, hit and over-rotated while in the air, and a wet spot on floor. Any of those things could have caused the same or similar injuries to any of our players - it was his bad luck that he got all three of them. His knee has never given out on its own that we're aware of, and there's no telling that either a) it would suddenly just buckle, or b) another freak incident would happen.
3. Assuming Yeboah would be better than him next year and would take his minutes. Again, no evidence here, but at least there's more to go on. Yeboah was a star at a lower level, and also dealt with an injury last year. He's got a similar frame to Omoruyi, but is much more of a shooter. It's certainly possible that he'd be better than Omoruyi - but I doubt it would have eaten much into Omoruyi's minutes. Harper/Yeboah/Omoruyi could each get 26 min across the 3/4 spots, and that's not even including time Yeboah/Omoruyi might spend at the 5 backing up Johnson. Plenty of minutes to go around, and it would have been really great depth to have.
4. We're somehow better without him. This is just crazy. He's a good player, has proven he's a competitor at this level (especially defensively), and would be a rising senior with 4 years in the program. Anyone taking this position is saying they'd rather Carter/Doucoure get more minutes than Omoruyi, because that's our depth at the 4/5 now.
5. We won't miss a beat without him. Maybe? But next year wasn't about "not missing a beat", it was about growth and challenging for higher ranking in the conference. Having both Yeboah AND Omoruyi was a big jump in talented depth and cause for real optimism that we could make some noise... Yeboah INSTEAD OF Omoruyi being a "wash" doesn't move the needle in the same way.
6. He'd cause team chemistry problems. This has the most potential for me in terms of "maybe this isn't as bad as it seems". If Yeboah and Harper really got more attention and production, and he slipped more into a 6th man role with his 25-28 min, would he have accepted that? I don't know. Did he not gel with the newer players, or not like that he might be pushed to the periphery in some way? I don't know. Was he angry at Pike for bringing Yeboah in, or angry at the team for accepting AY and ribbing him? I don't know. It's possible that any of those things could cause tremors that could crack later in the season and cause problems - and if he wasn't in step with the plan and the team goals, then he may have caused problems if focus were to shift.
Overall, to me, from a numbers perspective, it's definitely a loss - no other way to see it. From a personality/chemistry situation, that might change the nature of the math a bit.
Personally, I think 2 - possibly 3. The depth up front is the main problem IMO. Johnson, Carter, and Doucoure often battle foul trouble....and this is assuming that Doucoure improves to where he can play against B1G competition. If not, we are down to 2 true Bigs, both of whom foul an awful lot. While I love what I see in Yeboah, I think he's more of a wing.
The loss of Omoruyi is just something that needs to be overcome.
Eugene was a big part of the team and shown a lot of heart, but he isn't irreplaceable and though missed EO's leaving might not hurt like thought if someone steps up and blunts the effect his leaving might have had .
I won't claim anyone will be better, but won't claim EO can't be replaced and the sky is falling without him.
Players come and go every year and some good ones are replaced without the team missing a beat.
It could be the style of play is changed to suit the remaining talent and replacement making the team look better, or a player steps up and makes losing a good player a non issue by his/her play .
Eugene was a big part of the team and shown a lot of heart, but he isn't irreplaceable and though missed EO's leaving might not hurt like thought if someone steps up and blunts the effect his leaving might have had .
I won't claim anyone will be better, but won't claim EO can't be replaced and the sky is falling without him.
Players come and go every year and some good ones are replaced without the team missing a beat.
It could be the style of play is changed to suit the remaining talent and replacement making the team look better, or a player steps up and makes losing a good player a non issue by his/her play .
If Doucoure/Carter step it up this year (which is definitely possible for both/either), we may forget about Omoruyi more quickly. Carter had some struggles last year adjusting to the defensive concepts and frequently found himself out of position, which is very fixable with more practice reps. Doucoure had an injury and a year of conditioning/practice to improve his game, too.
If we can get away from the "if X can just give us Y good minutes in the post" mentality, that'd be a big benefit. With Omoruyi on the roster, there would be little concern/doubt when we had to dip into depth - without him, they'll be called upon more to step in. If they can rise to the challenge of becoming quality depth behind Yeboah/Johnson, that'd go a long way toward erasing any "what if" thoughts about Omoruyi's departure.
If we can get away from the "if X can just give us Y good minutes in the post" mentality, that'd be a big benefit. With Omoruyi on the roster, there would be little concern/doubt when we had to dip into depth - without him, they'll be called upon more to step in. If they can rise to the challenge of becoming quality depth behind Yeboah/Johnson, that'd go a long way toward erasing any "what if" thoughts about Omoruyi's departure.
It will be fun when the team has one good game next year and @bac2therac writes up the game completely ignoring all his negative bullshit and condescension
Two dislocated knee injuries in two years, lead one to believe that there is structural issue with his knee. The chance of him hurting it again next is greater than average player.
He does that on many occasions.
One thing I can say for bac's game write-ups,
good or bad game bac gives a good account of it.
Which is fine to say, but speculation just the same. As someone with a history of knee dislocations, I'm more aware than most. But none of his injuries were caused by structural issues. They were each extreme conditions / events.
Just saying his chance of injury is greater than the average player (it is) is not the same as saying it would happen again without another extreme event.
If there weren't structural issues before there likely are now. Not sure it's possible to have multiple knee dislocations and have no damage as a result
Definitely damage in there - even if it's just microtears and scarring and loss of elasticity (at minimum). The stronger the muscles are around the knee joint, the more stable it will be, even with some damage to ligaments/tendons.
That makes it more likely for him to be sustain another knee injury than a player without that history, but in no way a guarantee that he would injure it again in the coming year(s) without extenuating circumstances.
My legs have never been anywhere close to the musculature of a Div-1 basketball player, nor have I ever put anywhere near the type of strain on the joint that a Div-1 player would... but in HS I would play pickup basketball with a brace for hours on a kneecap that had dislocated/subluxated literally dozens of times. We'd play until muscle fatigue set in and my stability was shot - usually resulting in some form of patellar slippage that told me I was done for the day. I dislocated/subluxated that kneecap around 50+ times over 3 years of HS.
Nothing better than the history feature on the site.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/corey-sanders-announces-decision.142608/#post-3248203
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/corey-sanders-announces-decision.142608/#post-3248203
If I am doing my stats right between Omoruyi and Doorson we are losing:
17.5 ppg
11.5 rpg
48.1 FG%
62.1 FT%
46.9 mpg
And we are adding Young, Yeboah, Mulcahy and Doucoure. Is that correct? "We are doomed" seems a bit of an overreaction to me.
17.5 ppg
11.5 rpg
48.1 FG%
62.1 FT%
46.9 mpg
And we are adding Young, Yeboah, Mulcahy and Doucoure. Is that correct? "We are doomed" seems a bit of an overreaction to me.
We are losing that from the 4/5 spot, yes.... only Yeboah and Doucoure from your list will be getting minutes at the 4/5 spot, though.
Not sure why that matters, but ok.
Last year we lost 42.1 ppg and 114.7 mpg. Yet we were better in just about every meaningful statistic/metric while losing about 66% of our production. I stopped doubting this HC's ability a while ago. Losing Eugene stinks. C'est la vie. We will be better (again) next season. Not because EO left, but rather in spite of the fact EO left.
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Because you're talking about replacing production at the 4/5 - we're not going to be playing Mulcahy or Young at the 5, so in order to get his production we have to take a guard off the board to do it.
Last year we lost 42.1 ppg and 114.7 min.... but we had players coming in at the positions where we lost that production. Mathis/McConnell/Kiss coming in for Sanders/Williams/Mensah, Harper coming in for Bullock, Carter coming in for Freeman (and Omoruyi increasing his minutes load), Johnson coming in for Doucoure.
This year we're losing three guys at the 3/4/5, adding just 2 players who will be seen at those positions. We've lost a lot of beef under the basket and will be playing more guard-heavy lineups to compensate this year.
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