Flood's 3 recruiting classes

[czxqa]

I decided to take a closer look at Flood's recruiting classes to see why depth is so bad across the board. Now I left off the 2012 class (Schiano's last) since the few guys left from there are 5th year seniors, as well as the 2016 class. So for flood's classes we have:
2013 - 22 Commits, class rank 44
2014 - 26 Commits, class rank 58
2015 - 25 Commits, class rank 54
As expected, class rank dropped drastically from the #25 in 2012. So then I pulled all the commits from the Rivals database for the 3 classes, and compared them to the current roster. From the 73 commits listed, a total of 26 kids either didn't qualify, transferred, or got kicked off the team and expelled from school. 26. That's in effect losing the entire 2014 recruiting class.

So Ash inherited seven 5th year seniors, and 47 Flood recruited scholarship players, for a total of 54. That's 9 players short of a full FCS scholarship roster.

This is the list of the non-quals/washouts/transfers:
Andre Boggs
Delon Stephenson
Nadir Barnwell
B. Gross-Armiento
Josh Klecko
Lester Liston
Nick Internicola
Dontea Ayres
Taylor Marini
Darian Dailey
Kamren Lott
Donald Bedell
Sam Blue
Sidney Gopre
Justin Nelson
Jacquis Webb
Cal Ibanez
Jacob Kraut
Logan Lister
Najee Clayton
Al-Kadair Ports
Marques Ford
Sidney Gopre
Jack Shutack
Anthony Folkerts
Dontae Owens

SO anyone banging on about coaching and our lousy OC, DC, Head Coach, these guys are freaking miracle workers considering what they have been handed to work with. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit, and there's a hole in this roster 26 scholarship players wide.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

...and last year's class, which IMHO you account to Flood, was ranked 78th.

 

[newell138]

Nice post. That's doing your homework, something more posters need to do before spouting off

 

[brodo]

You have Sidney Gopre listed twice.

 

[kjb32812]

So wait, you're making excuses for the guy four games in? Why would you need a full roster of scholarship players to compete?

JK but I've seen this post somewhere before...can't remember the exact location...and it fell on deaf ears.

 

[czxqa]

You have Sidney Gopre listed twice.

Sorry, forgot to nuke the second entry. Eric Waife, who is on the roster, was on there twice too. So that's 25 washouts from 71 individual commits.

 

[czxqa]

So wait, you're making excuses for the guy four games in? Why would you need a full roster of scholarship players to compete?

JK but I've seen this post somewhere before...can't remember the exact location...and it fell on deaf ears.

LOL, I'm guessing it probably had something to do with your team's depleted roster from the sanctions. Then again, I wouldn't expect much sympathy for our plight over on your main board either...

 

[RUskoolie]

I have said for 3 years Kyle Flood was a walking NCAA sanction.

 

[ScarletKnightRider]

I decided to take a closer look at Flood's recruiting classes to see why depth is so bad across the board. Now I left off the 2012 class (Schiano's last) since the few guys left from there are 5th year seniors, as well as the 2016 class. So for flood's classes we have:
2013 - 22 Commits, class rank 44
2014 - 26 Commits, class rank 58
2015 - 25 Commits, class rank 54
As expected, class rank dropped drastically from the #25 in 2012. So then I pulled all the commits from the Rivals database for the 3 classes, and compared them to the current roster. From the 73 commits listed, a total of 26 kids either didn't qualify, transferred, or got kicked off the team and expelled from school. 26. That's in effect losing the entire 2014 recruiting class.

So Ash inherited seven 5th year seniors, and 47 Flood recruited scholarship players, for a total of 54. That's 9 players short of a full FCS scholarship roster.

This is the list of the non-quals/washouts/transfers:
Andre Boggs
Delon Stephenson
Nadir Barnwell
B. Gross-Armiento
Josh Klecko
Lester Liston
Nick Internicola
Dontea Ayres
Taylor Marini
Darian Dailey
Kamren Lott
Donald Bedell
Sam Blue
Sidney Gopre
Justin Nelson
Jacquis Webb
Cal Ibanez
Jacob Kraut
Logan Lister
Najee Clayton
Al-Kadair Ports
Marques Ford
Sidney Gopre
Jack Shutack
Anthony Folkerts
Dontae Owens

SO anyone banging on about coaching and our lousy OC, DC, Head Coach, these guys are freaking miracle workers considering what they have been handed to work with. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit, and there's a hole in this roster 26 scholarship players wide.

FInally... FINALLY someone paints the FULL picture here. It wasnt just the quality of players that was being recruited... but it was the absurd number of guys who ended up leaving the program before even making it to the field. THIS is what stands out to me more than anything.

Before the season started a couple guys I know kept calling me a pessimist whenever I gave my prediction. All they would do is rant and rave about how much better coaching we have and how they were expecting improvement. I simply responded by rattling off the ridiculous number of players that left the team over the past 3 years and the jaws dropped. People dont realize this because it didn't all happen at once but it adds up sooner or later.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

I said this before and I will say it again, when Flood was hired we basically gave ourselves the death penalty.

 

[kjb32812]

LOL, I'm guessing it probably had something to do with your team's depleted roster from the sanctions. Then again, I wouldn't expect much sympathy for our plight over on your main board either...

My point is that sometimes you just don't have the horses. I was as critical as the next guy about our OL (and still am) but after two OL coaches and two OC's I have to think that maybe the kids we have playing the OL just aren't very good. That's not meant to be taken as an attack on their character or as anything more than exactly what I said. I mean, our DL is young and we have a couple kids playing LB who were either supposed to be on spot duty or RS and you can see the potential and even improvement after just a few games. That just hasn't transpired (at least enough) along our OL in what is now the third year for most of them.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

FInally... FINALLY someone paints the FULL picture here. It wasnt just the quality of players that was being recruited... but it was the absurd number of guys who ended up leaving the program before even making it to the field. THIS is what stands out to me more than anything.

Before the season started a couple guys I know kept calling me a pessimist whenever I gave my prediction. All they would do is rant and rave about how much better coaching we have and how they were expecting improvement. I simply responded by rattling off the ridiculous number of players that left the team over the past 3 years and the jaws dropped. People dont realize this because it didn't all happen at once but it adds up sooner or later.

Those guys are bitching about coaching now. They're the guys who predicted 7-8 wins this year.

 

[czxqa]

Those guys are bitching about coaching now. They're the guys who predicted 7-8 wins this year.

Before the season I thought 6 was doable. I said that a lot. Not to be expected, but within reach. If Grant and Quanzilla don't go down, I think we would have beaten Iowa, and we'd be at 3 wins now, with enough winnable games left on the schedule to get to 6. We can't replace Grant, there's a hole where Quanzilla used to be (as we can see OSU ran to that side a ton and we had no answer) so the remainder of the schedule is a crap shoot at this point. I'm not sure the offense can recover from the loss of Grant. I hope that we will see Oden play more and get more comfortable the rest of the year. That's the improvement on offense I will be looking for, as well as Jawuan getting more comfortable at receiver, having some success, and everyone staying healthy. This is a developmental season for the guys that are playing. Hopefully, we can have several early enrollees, and a full 25 for the fall. Do it again next year. They're building relationships with the HS programs in the state and that should pay dividends. Like Cali says, recruit, recruit, recruit.

 

[rivals1982]

None of this is rocket science. I think everyone thought our first year in the B1G was indicative of something. I mean the fact that people thought we can beat Michigan on the regular was silly. They were at a historically fractured state and we were actually "favored" in that game since they were so bad.

Right now, we are looking at working to compete with the Indiana's and the Maryland's of the world. If we can do that well, then that is enough until 2020 when we can compete with the PSU's of the world and then hopefully by 2025 we can compete with Michigan and OSU.

 

[RobertG]

I decided to take a closer look at Flood's recruiting classes to see why depth is so bad across the board. Now I left off the 2012 class (Schiano's last) since the few guys left from there are 5th year seniors, as well as the 2016 class. So for flood's classes we have:
2013 - 22 Commits, class rank 44
2014 - 26 Commits, class rank 58
2015 - 25 Commits, class rank 54
As expected, class rank dropped drastically from the #25 in 2012. So then I pulled all the commits from the Rivals database for the 3 classes, and compared them to the current roster. From the 73 commits listed, a total of 26 kids either didn't qualify, transferred, or got kicked off the team and expelled from school. 26. That's in effect losing the entire 2014 recruiting class.

So Ash inherited seven 5th year seniors, and 47 Flood recruited scholarship players, for a total of 54. That's 9 players short of a full FCS scholarship roster.

This is the list of the non-quals/washouts/transfers:
Andre Boggs
Delon Stephenson
Nadir Barnwell
B. Gross-Armiento
Josh Klecko
Lester Liston
Nick Internicola
Dontea Ayres
Taylor Marini
Darian Dailey
Kamren Lott
Donald Bedell
Sam Blue
Sidney Gopre
Justin Nelson
Jacquis Webb
Cal Ibanez
Jacob Kraut
Logan Lister
Najee Clayton
Al-Kadair Ports
Marques Ford
Sidney Gopre
Jack Shutack
Anthony Folkerts
Dontae Owens

SO anyone banging on about coaching and our lousy OC, DC, Head Coach, these guys are freaking miracle workers considering what they have been handed to work with. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit, and there's a hole in this roster 26 scholarship players wide.

Did you count transfers in? Hester and Rettig are 2. Jones is a walk on. Any other transfers i missed?

 

[rufeelinit]

very telling. going to be a lean couple of years.

 

[BoroKnight]

An excellent point. The level of recruiting (before this past year) was not horrible, just mediocre overall and bad by Big Ten standards. But the number of players lost, while not unique to Rutgers, is crippling to a program.

I totally understood keeping him to keep that recruiting class together. But I think we now know it should ave been "interim" until a full search could have been done the following December. Six days is not enough time to conduct a search, and nobody good would have come here even if we could have afforded to get somebody good.

Incidentally, I thought the same thing back in 1985 when Tom Young left late in the summer. Wrong time for a coaching search. Ask Joe Boylan -- who was a really great guy, by the way -- if he would be willing to run the team just for that season and do a real search in March. We could have been spared Littlepage AND Flood. Even if we didn't thrive -- and the odds were against that, especially in basketball at that time in the shadow of the Big East -- really, really bad things probably wouldn't have happened.

 

[Plum Street]

Flood recruited BIG stinkers . Give ash a few years to recruit . By 2018 we need to see progress

 

[rivals1982]

To put this in perspective, there are only 64 schools in the Power Five conferences. Therefore, if you are anywhere near rank 64, you are bottom of the barrel in the Power Five. Here's a calculation below since the names of the conferences are no longer indicative of the number of schools.

SEC = 14 schools
B1G 10 = 14 schools
Big 12 = 10 schools
Pac 12 = 12 schools
ACC = 14 schools

 

[devoted2ru]

Man, I knew we'd lost quite a few guys during the Flood regime, but you don't really get the full impact until someone does the research and you see a list like that. (Thanks, czxqa, for putting in the time to do that, by the way.) And clearly, while all programs lose a few guys here and there, that amount is really over the top.

I hope as this season goes on, anyone who feels the need to rag on the new staff keeps that list in mind. -As I mentioned in another thread, Ash & Co. basically inherited a gutted building, (particularly regarding the talent differential between us and the upper half of the B1G), and you don't turn that kind of thing into a showplace overnight, no matter how much you try to tweak and adjust what you do in order to accommodate the skill sets of the current personnel you have at hand.

 

[Hondo77]

The OP has given us facts. Facts are of no consequence to many on this board.

 

[ArminRU]

I said this before and I will say it again, when Flood was hired we basically gave ourselves the death penalty.

Was just thinking this.

We were harsher on ourselves than the NCAA was on PSU. :joy::gun:

 

[Bleed_Scarlet]

Was just thinking this.

We were harsher on ourselves than the NCAA was on PSU. :joy::gun:

Wrong

Flood was harsher on us than the NCAA was on PSU

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Before the season I thought 6 was doable. I said that a lot. Not to be expected, but within reach. If Grant and Quanzilla don't go down, I think we would have beaten Iowa, and we'd be at 3 wins now, with enough winnable games left on the schedule to get to 6. We can't replace Grant, there's a hole where Quanzilla used to be (as we can see OSU ran to that side a ton and we had no answer) so the remainder of the schedule is a crap shoot at this point. I'm not sure the offense can recover from the loss of Grant. I hope that we will see Oden play more and get more comfortable the rest of the year. That's the improvement on offense I will be looking for, as well as Jawuan getting more comfortable at receiver, having some success, and everyone staying healthy. This is a developmental season for the guys that are playing. Hopefully, we can have several early enrollees, and a full 25 for the fall. Do it again next year. They're building relationships with the HS programs in the state and that should pay dividends. Like Cali says, recruit, recruit, recruit.

Even 6 would still be a major stretch WITH Grant and Lambert IMHO. Possible? Eh. Probable? No.

 

[RU-ROCS]

So wait, you're making excuses for the guy four games in? Why would you need a full roster of scholarship players to compete?

JK but I've seen this post somewhere before...can't remember the exact location...and it fell on deaf ears.

Difference is we've got the same depleted roster as a team with historic sanctions, but without the load of 3 and 4 stars that OB and Franklin have brought in. Hopefully, Ash will change that. But I'd be willing to bet my paycheck that PSU's top 57 scholarship players far outranked the guys Flood left behind, especially since many of his highest rated recruits were kicked off the team.

 

[kjb32812]

Difference is we've got the same depleted roster as a team with historic sanctions, but without the load of 3 and 4 stars that OB and Franklin have brought in. Hopefully, Ash will change that. But I'd be willing to bet my paycheck that PSU's top 57 scholarship players far outranked the guys Flood left behind, especially since many of his highest rated recruits were kicked off the team.

Whose fault is that? I could play that same card and RU fans would tell me (rightfully so) to GTFOH.

Maybe the * difference is also the difference between winning three or four games (Ash) vs. six or seven (Franklin). Not quite sure your point.

 

[RU848789]

I decided to take a closer look at Flood's recruiting classes to see why depth is so bad across the board. Now I left off the 2012 class (Schiano's last) since the few guys left from there are 5th year seniors, as well as the 2016 class. So for flood's classes we have:
2013 - 22 Commits, class rank 44
2014 - 26 Commits, class rank 58
2015 - 25 Commits, class rank 54
As expected, class rank dropped drastically from the #25 in 2012. So then I pulled all the commits from the Rivals database for the 3 classes, and compared them to the current roster. From the 73 commits listed, a total of 26 kids either didn't qualify, transferred, or got kicked off the team and expelled from school. 26. That's in effect losing the entire 2014 recruiting class.

So Ash inherited seven 5th year seniors, and 47 Flood recruited scholarship players, for a total of 54. That's 9 players short of a full FCS scholarship roster.

This is the list of the non-quals/washouts/transfers:
Andre Boggs
Delon Stephenson
Nadir Barnwell
B. Gross-Armiento
Josh Klecko
Lester Liston
Nick Internicola
Dontea Ayres
Taylor Marini
Darian Dailey
Kamren Lott
Donald Bedell
Sam Blue
Sidney Gopre
Justin Nelson
Jacquis Webb
Cal Ibanez
Jacob Kraut
Logan Lister
Najee Clayton
Al-Kadair Ports
Marques Ford
Sidney Gopre
Jack Shutack
Anthony Folkerts
Dontae Owens

SO anyone banging on about coaching and our lousy OC, DC, Head Coach, these guys are freaking miracle workers considering what they have been handed to work with. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit, and there's a hole in this roster 26 scholarship players wide.

Great post, thanks.

 

[greenknight]

You forgot Thomas quit, rejoined then quit again

 

[250andCounting]

Don't forget the problems the poor performance in 2015 , the bad publicity and the firing of Flood caused with the 2016 class. We only signed 18 recruits (7 short of a full class).

The 2016 class was ranked 78th by Rivals.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Whose fault is that? I could play that same card and RU fans would tell me (rightfully so) to GTFOH.

Maybe the * difference is also the difference between winning three or four games (Ash) vs. six or seven (Franklin). Not quite sure your point.

Ash hasn't even coached a full season yet.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Did you count transfers in? Hester and Rettig are 2. Jones is a walk on. Any other transfers i missed?

No. You don't build your program on transfers. Schiano made this very clear when he got here. You build it on recruiting and SUPPLEMENTING with a JUCO/grad transfer here and there.

 

[RobertG]

No. You don't build your program on transfers. Schiano made this very clear when he got here. You build it on recruiting and SUPPLEMENTING with a JUCO/grad transfer here and there.

Not questioning the philosophy or standing up for Floods recruiting I'm just commenting on the accuracy of the numbers. The OP stated that RU was 9 shy of a full compliment. I know of three transfers that would make it 6, I think there may have been more.

 

[ScarletRunner]

This post is eye-opening, even to folks like myself who recognized the depth/talent problems.

That is like an entire starting offense and defense off the team.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Not questioning the philosophy or standing up for Floods recruiting I'm just commenting on the accuracy of the numbers. The OP stated that RU was 9 shy of a full compliment. I know of three transfers that would make it 6, I think there may have been more.

True and sorry I misunderstood. Still, we have too many walk-ons on the 2-deep.

 

[kupuna133]

Not questioning the philosophy or standing up for Floods recruiting I'm just commenting on the accuracy of the numbers. The OP stated that RU was 9 shy of a full compliment. I know of three transfers that would make it 6, I think there may have been more.

9 scholarships short of an FCS (div 1aa) full complement not an FBS (D1). Flood should have been nothing more than a space saver until the AD could do a full national search. Never impressed me as a position coach/recruiter much less a head coach/closer.

 

[letterman]

So,is there a rule that says we can't bring in the extra recruits to make up for this deficit? How many recruits are we allowed in any given year?

 

[RU in P-Tucky]

So we have basis for comparison, what is the medians for this metric across the country?

 

[RU in P-Tucky]

No. You don't build your program on transfers. Schiano made this very clear when he got here. You build it on recruiting and SUPPLEMENTING with a JUCO/grad transfer here and there.

2 transfers is 'building a program'?

 

[RU in P-Tucky]

So,is there a rule that says we can't bring in the extra recruits to make up for this deficit? How many recruits are we allowed in any given year?

I think you can sign 25. Then, grey shirts allow some flexibility.

 

[Knight Shift]

NIU Recruiting Ranks
2011: 85
2012:NR
2013: NR
2014: 83

September 19, 2015: tOSU 20-NIU 13.

Minnesota:
2011: 55
2012: 78
2013: 61
2014: 54

Nov. 7, 2015: OSU 28 NIU 14