I think the fanbase will revolt with a 4-8 record in year 3, forcing the new Rutgers President and potentially the new AD to make a move in year 3.
For Areyounuts and others--I was wrong !!!
- Thread starter HeavenUniv.
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I partially agree, but not entirely. We obviously, based on any objective measurement, do not have the players to compete with the elite Big Ten teams. I don't think you are arguing that we do.
We may have the players to compete with some mid-tier and lower-tier teams. It's hard to tell, because the players are just getting their feet wet in new systems of play.
However, what really wasn't fair to the players was being improperly coached for much of the Flood era. What isn't fair to our freshmen is not getting a chance to redshirt and develop because we lost so many players under Flood's tenure (to arrests or transfers) that they had to play right away.
None of that is Ash's fault.
Nobody is going to argue that our coaches are coaching perfectly. They are young, with two of them in their first year at their positions. So they will make some first year coach mistakes. That doesn't make them bad coaches, it makes them young coaches.
If people want to bitch about the administration not hiring any of the very many really experienced coaches with winning histories that were begging for the job, then fine. But it's not hard to see the tremendous upside of Ash and Mehringer if one looks past their disappointment over this season's results. And they (Ash at least) are simply not going anywhere for at least three years, and more likely five.
MADHAT!! Penn State suffered severe sanctions in 2012, four years later they're vying for a DAM playoff spot!! Listen this is what I expect: 2017 (4-8) 2018 (7-5) 2019 (9-3). Very reasonable.
Yes you are. I'm a realist. A realist knew this season was going to suck, and that probably next season will too. Soon as we didn't hire a huge name coach, that was inevitable without having a ton of really good luck (we got a ton of really bad luck).
But being a realist doesn't mean that I have to post all that reality in every single thread I possibly can, shitting all over the more optimistic fans hopes. Ash is not going anywhere for at least three years. Being negative in year one is pointless.
So you tell me. What is the value of you posting so negatively about the staff? Let's assume for the sake of argument that you're correct about him. What do you think you are accomplishing by being so incredibly and constantly negative? What do you win if you're right? Nobody gives a a shit if you turn out to be right. Everybody will be happy as hell if you're wrong.
So if you're not a troll, what's your motivation for posting the way you do?
The funny thing, despite what fools like Trap think, it would have been inevitable even with a big name coach. The biggest name I remember floating around last year was Richt. He's done well enough at Miami, with Miami talent, but the team has slipped from a highly ranked contender to another lackluster year in So Fl. What exactly would he be doing with our talent base? He would have hit recruiting hard and lost a bunch of games, like another coach I know. Maybe we'd have won a couple more and/or not gotten blown out so badly, but at the end of the season, we wouldn't be going to a bowl and would be looking to the future for better things.
And Richt showed exactly no interest in coming here, from what I remember, but he's kind of worth looking at because he was actually available, unlike Trap's top choice.
Look up my posts when he was hired. Both Rutgersal and I almost unilaterally said the administration cheaped out again. A head coach with no HC experience will not succeed at a school like ours in a conference like the B10. A decent HC named Charlie Strong went to a very rich Texas U. where he crashed and burned. You're 100% correct this is not Chris Ash's fault, as a matter of fact I feel for him. I blame an
Institution who will not support the program like other B10 schools.
I don't think any coach would've gotten us to a bowl game this season. But a huge name coach (none of which were coming here for double the money we are paying) would have a much easier time recruiting.
I'm not convinced even Richt wouldn't struggle some in recruiting at first up here. In Richt's case, I could see his personality not being a great fit for recruiting in NJ (although I don't know - maybe he's done really well recruiting in the North East).
Incredibly dumb, as usual. Charlie Strong disproves your point that we'd be better off with a "HC with experience." Outside of your proven P5 winners, none of whom were coming here, there's no guarantee an HC with experience will do any better than a coordinator bumped up to HC at a school like ours in a conference like the B1G. See the Purdue situation.
We also don't have the money of other B1G schools yet and we certainly don't have the alum financial support, so why exactly would you expect the same level of support (whatever that even means)?
I'll reiterate: Facts are great tools ... but you have to use them right and not smash yourself in the forehead with them.
Then what's the point?? Has anyone on this site ever competed in a sport? Do you put up your entry fees and say "I'm going to give it my all to not finish last?" This is what I mean as the Battered Fan Syndrome (BFS). Many here are ok with the status quo because real success (9-3 season) is literally out of the question. Your basically saying our chances to really succeed is not happening. You and many here just don't have the courage to speak your mind about our reality as a B10 member. If a 9-3 season is unrealistic then we are nothing more than a sparring partner. Again what's the point of competing.
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My point is that, while Ash may not work out, he is here to stay for at least another two seasons and, should he get us to a bowl in either season, he's here for at least five seasons. There is virtually nothing the fan-base can do about this.
So do we really just want to spew non-stop negativity for the next two seasons? Just for the sake of "being right about the staff"?
Personally, I think richt is one of the more overrated coaches of our era. Top recruiting classes at Georgia every year, but nothing to show for it.
The point is to not be moronic and set yourself up for perennial disappointment.
Here's where the disconnect seems to be for you: Unless you're a player on the team, or maybe a Phil Knight-type benefactor, your visions of 9-3, Rose Bowls and playoff berths have no fkn impact whatsoever on what happens. Repeat after me: NO FKN IMPACT WHATSOEVER. All they seem to do is make you a miserable, whiny mess.
There's no such thing as "Battered Fan Syndrome" or a fan's "moral victory"; those are terms for people that actually have control over their situation, despite what the cliche brigade on here will lead you to believe. Is 9-3 possible? Sure. Is there any value in expecting it in Year 3 as a fan? No. I can either choose to accept the results that I can't control or I can be miserable based on exaggerated expectations for a team I have no impact on at all. I know what I'm choosing; you'd be wise to consider same.
Not me friend. Never!! I shot for years in competitive shooting matches. I went from an amateur to a semi pro competitor with partial sponsorship in 3 short years. In NJ I dominated and have 6 Open NJ State Titles with an additional 6 RU Titles sitting in my family room. In bigger National venues I was formidable but never World Championship material. However, keep in mind that in 2002 I place 5th in San Antonio Texas at the World Championships. When my eyesight began to deteriorate and my chances of winning dwindled, I quit!! What's the point to this post. You compete to Win!!! You put together the best possible coaching staff who will claw and scratch for every win!! Recruit one dimensional athletes whose only agenda is to play on Sunday. Accepting the garbage on the field makes you the moron not me.
Hey look there you go! A positive post! A 6-win 2018 is exactly what the "expectation" should be and the schedule is, well, "favorable" to do as much or a little (7 wins) that season.
Did everyone else here think the "trap" part of his moniker was for the football play and not a type of competitive shooting?
Lol, I've seriously never seen someone miss the point so hard and thoroughly. Your prolific shooting history and ambitious fanboy goal setting will still have exactly zero impact on the actual team, the coaching staff and the record, now and forever. You're whining on the Internet incessantly while I'm out enjoying life, but I'm the moron? Nope, doesn't work that way.
I know your eyesight is bad, but can you squint and take careful aim at less whining and all-around b#&chiness? That'd be your biggest "bull's eye" to date!
Seems like there shouldn't be any condemnation ( even though did it to those that weren't happy with Flood hired) of anyone posting negative thoughts about Ash and his staff.
Flood from the moment he was hired till the moment he was let go had posters saying he was no good and beat that drum to death, but now can take credit for being right..
Though I think it's to early to claim Ash is a failure, won't say others shouldn't be allowed to think and post that way.
For those who posted frequently Flood shouldn't have been hired from the moment he was, give those who aren't thrilled about Ash the same respect you thought your opinion warranted, even if RU fans like me told you to STFU and give Kyle a chance to prove himself.
Some Ash detractors are making me feel the same way the Flood detractors made me feel. The only difference the Flood detractors were proven right. I can't say the same won't happen with those who feel Ash can't coach. I just hope they are proven
wrong, quickly.
Don't you profit off the hard work of these young kids? Did you not make enough this year? You should be very ashamed of this post.
Like many fans, I tend to buy into the positive hype on this board. I liked Coach Flood as a person. I liked the idea of continuing what Greg had started. A little success in the first year in the Big felt pretty good. We struggled a little in recruiting but being in the Big we were expecting better recruiting would come to us. But at the end after the arrests and clandestine meeting and emails, it made sense for him to go.
When we hired Ash, many posted how changing to the spread offense worked at other schools in the first year - with examples! I also listened to Coach Ash. Though I didn't like what he said, I bought in to the idea that he would evaluate the year not on wins and losses but on whether we were getting better each and every week. Kenny Parker was a motivator supreme and our guys would wear the other teams down. Well, from my limited football knowledge, I have seen no improvement on the field as the year has gone on with the one exception of Gio starting as QB. And that was after we suffered game after game of poor, and I mean really poor, QB play.
Dropped passes are not all on the receivers. At least part of that is coaching. Oline getting run through like Swiss Cheese is not all lack of talent. Some of that is on the scheme and coaching. Defense getting burned on what seems like every long pass play is not all poor DB's. Some of that is coaching. Remember when our defensive line this year was supposed to be solid and better than expected?
I want to believe that Coach Ash is going to get it done but there are valid reasons for doubt. I know basketball is easier to turn around in a hurry but the example on our own campus of how much different the basketball team looks under Piekell is a good one. The difference is night and day. It seems insufferable that we have to give football coaches 5 years (maybe 4 if we can afford to pay double salary for a year) before we can determine if they will be successful or not.
Even the Terry Shea teams could move the ball between the 20's. They couldn't score inside the 20 but they could move the ball. Even MAC and Sunbelt teams have serviceable kickers. Our guy looks like he is taking too many steps and doing that too slowly - coaching. Shouldn't be too hard to convince a high quality kicker to come here when he is probably going to get more opportunities than on any other team in the country and on a big stage.
I want to believe but until proven wrong, this year's performance has me thinking that we will be coach shopping in four years. Maybe recruiting and putting talent on the field will turn it around. Maybe changing a coordinator here and there will help. But based only on my view of the performance so far and Coach Ash's own criterion, the outlook is not good. Fortunately, Ash does not seem as stubborn as Flood or Schiano so maybe he can make changes that will matter.
When we hired Ash, many posted how changing to the spread offense worked at other schools in the first year - with examples! I also listened to Coach Ash. Though I didn't like what he said, I bought in to the idea that he would evaluate the year not on wins and losses but on whether we were getting better each and every week. Kenny Parker was a motivator supreme and our guys would wear the other teams down. Well, from my limited football knowledge, I have seen no improvement on the field as the year has gone on with the one exception of Gio starting as QB. And that was after we suffered game after game of poor, and I mean really poor, QB play.
Dropped passes are not all on the receivers. At least part of that is coaching. Oline getting run through like Swiss Cheese is not all lack of talent. Some of that is on the scheme and coaching. Defense getting burned on what seems like every long pass play is not all poor DB's. Some of that is coaching. Remember when our defensive line this year was supposed to be solid and better than expected?
I want to believe that Coach Ash is going to get it done but there are valid reasons for doubt. I know basketball is easier to turn around in a hurry but the example on our own campus of how much different the basketball team looks under Piekell is a good one. The difference is night and day. It seems insufferable that we have to give football coaches 5 years (maybe 4 if we can afford to pay double salary for a year) before we can determine if they will be successful or not.
Even the Terry Shea teams could move the ball between the 20's. They couldn't score inside the 20 but they could move the ball. Even MAC and Sunbelt teams have serviceable kickers. Our guy looks like he is taking too many steps and doing that too slowly - coaching. Shouldn't be too hard to convince a high quality kicker to come here when he is probably going to get more opportunities than on any other team in the country and on a big stage.
I want to believe but until proven wrong, this year's performance has me thinking that we will be coach shopping in four years. Maybe recruiting and putting talent on the field will turn it around. Maybe changing a coordinator here and there will help. But based only on my view of the performance so far and Coach Ash's own criterion, the outlook is not good. Fortunately, Ash does not seem as stubborn as Flood or Schiano so maybe he can make changes that will matter.
Good thing you weren't competing in reading comprehension. You missed the target by a mile.
I might have made two or three negative posts immediately after Flood was hired because it was a pretty questionable hire. However, I then stopped and switched gears and supported him until he was fired. Because I didn't want to be "that guy" that does nothing but trash the program at every opportunity.
It's "that guy" that I'm trying to reach here lately. We have Ash and crew for at least three years, with maybe some assistant changes along the way. So there's simply no point in non-stop bashing of the coach because the only thing it accomplishes is to spread misery and potentially, even if only a very small potential, it can contribute to a commit or future recruit souring on coming to RU.
Also, I recognize that I'm probably pissing into the wind. Because the same people that only show up in the in-game threads when things are going badly and then disappear when things go well are the people posting the most negative stuff now. There's probably no reaching them.
That's a tricky one, IMO. I don't think anybody thinks our players are without talent - they're talented or they wouldn't be playing D1 football. But someone, not sure who, posted the offer lists of the players currently starting for us vs. some other teams. It was quite a contrast. We had, at least at the point the post was made, more than our fair share of walk-ons and one-offer (D1) playing a lot of downs.
I wish people would say we aren't quite as talented as OSU/UM/MSU instead of the more abrasive "our players suck". Our players don't suck, but most of us that have competed in physical sports know what it feels like to be over-matched physically. And we have appeared that way when playing the elite Big Ten teams.
I had heard, indirectly but reliably, from some players that the general consensus among the players was that they didn't feel like Flood and crew were doing a great job of coaching technique and positional play. I heard again, after Ash starting coaching in the Spring, that the players fears were confirmed and that the new staff seemed to have a lot more knowledge to pass on.
If all that was true, and it seemed that way to my unqualified laypersons eyes, then our players weren't even able to play their best with the talent they do have. And that isn't fixed overnight because it takes a while to break habits that were formed over years of incorrect coaching.
I would guess that, had our current players all had several years of coaching under the current staff, that we might be seeing more talent in our players than we are seeing right now. And for sure, we would seem to be playing faster right now because the players would have formed great habits and instincts.
So yeah, I think our players got a raw deal after Schiano left (and the offensive players, to some extent, were getting a raw deal before he left). But it seems like they are back to getting good coaching again. So that's great for our young players and the incoming recruits.
This team had 3 offensive playmakers last year. Carroo graduated, Grant got hurt and Martin has a nagging injury you'd have to assume. There is no one on our offense the defense has to worry about. That is all about Floods recruiting. Hopefully we keep Melton, Lewis, Jamarion comes back and at least we someone that can at least give a defense a modicum of stress
I said it for years that the recruiting classes for Rutgers during Flood era were not good. Too many people were bragging about 2 star commits being diamonds in the rough with their FCS offers. Now you guys see it. Ash recruiting is better because he atleast got a few 4 stars.
I suspect that when a season goes as badly as this one did, that there is more than a single simple problem like (it's the players or it's the coaches). I also suspect that if the same exact group of players and coaches had been together for few years prior to this season, that this season's results would have looked a lot better.
No, it is talent! This is a result of bad recruiting for several years that has caused a domino effect which you now see on the field. Our top play makers go down and there is nobody that is fit to replace them. That is lack of depth which was caused by bad recruiting. Yes, our 1st year coaches have to get better also. I'll give you that. I think they will.
YeahBaby,
What in the world are you talking about ? What profits ? I don't own any of the stores I post about. I have told people for years that I am not the owner of Kohls,Finishline,Scarlet Fever,Rally House,etc. It is just a weird hobby.
What in the world are you talking about ? What profits ? I don't own any of the stores I post about. I have told people for years that I am not the owner of Kohls,Finishline,Scarlet Fever,Rally House,etc. It is just a weird hobby.
mildone.
In my reply that had your post in quote I really wasn't talking about you or anyone specifly in that post.
I did have some posters in mind but thought it would be taken as attacking them if I posted who I was thinking about and probably only remember a few that were constantly attacking Flood from first day to last.
The thing I was saying is if anyone did constant beat-downs all year long over what they thought of Flood's HCing ability his first year as HC, they should allow those who don't like Ash as a HC or Mehringer as the OC to speak their objections and be willing to discuss rather than just attack.
Like I said, I'm not a good example of doing that as some of those who posted their poor opinion of Flood know.
The way RU is playing right now will have some fans question Ash's ability and be down on Mehringer. Those RU fans opinions need to be respected, like the ones that defend Ash deserve to be.
This is simply not true, Ash has to play with the kids that Ash brought in. Look at the lacrosse team BB did not have real success until he was able to coach mostly his recruits. Let Ash recruit kids to his style of play before we rush him out the door.
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