GAME 11 SETON HALL: A win but I will pass on the milk and cookies

[KK1827]

It’s still Rutgers v SHU.
Means a ton to the fans.
Mets v Yankees best crowds of year.
Rutgers v SHU the same.
Everybody complaining about NIL.
Nobody complained when coaches hop, skipped and jumped from job to job….

This one isnt as complicated as youre making it. Rivalries dont mean as much when the kids playing in them havent played against each other before and have no real connection to the school.

SHU doesnt even have 1 jersey kid on their entire roster. Like 3 total kids played in this game last year between both teams. And yeS, thats because NIL

 

[Loyal_2RU]

The showing in Vegas still has me optimistic for March. We went to the wire with Alabama & Texas A&M, who won at UNC & Purdue. For some reason we play (& shoot FTs) better on Neutral floors, than at the RAC. The key is getting to the tournament, & we will be fine. I agree that this team is a work in Progress .
In the last 3 Seton Hall games, the clear underdog has played better. Do not take more from this game, other than that we won. If we get by the next 2, maybe Dylan once again follows his brothers lead at Indiana. Then we have a stretch of 3 more Q1 games at home.
Team should enjoy the win for a day, then spend hours shooting FTs at the RAC, not the practice center, with distractions. Get some students to volunteer. sometimes a few yellers, like the idiots behind the Seton Hall Bench, are more of a distraction than a roaring crowd..

Maybe with the cheerleaders foolish FT routine too

 

[Unionst]

“Dylan Harper....that's it, that is the recap.”1,000 words later, Holloway defense on last possession was dereliction of duty. And he has turned SHU into St Peter’s.

I rewatched the end of the game and coming out of the timeout 2 SHU guys were set to cover Dylan on the inbound. About 2 seconds before the inbound one of them inexplicably moved away.

 

[RuBird]

Bailey should move back to the 3 pt line to “hit” his FTs.

 

[RexMantlepiece]

People seem oblivious to the reality of rivalry games. The prediction thread had so many people predicting a blowout RU victory - totally unrealistic IMHO. Last year SHU was clearly the better team, but RU went to the Rock and led the entire game and won by 7 - even though the game was not really that close. That’s what happens in these games. Be happy with the win and don’t over analyze it. If RU just hit their FTs at their usual clip it would have been a comfortable 10 pt victory. This team continues to grow and that is what’s important.

Exactly 23 of the last 30 games have been decided by 6 points or less.

 

[Knight Shift]

So we didn’t battle toe to toe with a very good Alabama team?

Some posters, and there seem to be many of them, love to harp on Rutgers' negatives, and get total amnesia on the positives to continue to push a negative narrative. It's tiresome.

 

[RUJMM78]

But thats the issue..we can play down to the wire with #10 or 110 or 210. Thats likely to all even out since we haven't shown any sign of breaking that trend...where does that put us in March

It puts Rutgers not getting a NCAA bid .The lack of consistent scoring from the 3 other starters is troubling because league rivals probably will double team Bailey and Harper on many possessions.I can see Rutgers scoring average drop into the 65-70 point range unless there are changes in playing time .

 

[bethlehemfan]

This one isnt as complicated as youre making it. Rivalries dont mean as much when the kids playing in them havent played against each other before and have no real connection to the school.

SHU doesnt even have 1 jersey kid on their entire roster. Like 3 total kids played in this game last year between both teams. And yeS, thats because NIL

I agree with what you’re saying in a way but watching this game where it shouldn’t really mean much anymore I realized that it’s the fans and the media the coaches and the trophy that actually make this what it is now. It’s a rivalry and it’s great. They are mercenaries yes but most fans only care about the color on the jersey. The players react to all that and boom you get a rivalry worthy game. Can’t explain the emotion and what it does to athletes but it’s there. Really fun game imo and I’ve changed my mind. Keep it up - Princeton - pass nobody cares except the old guys. Q

 

[bac2therac]

Well it was certainly putrid for awhile and the whole first half with 11 turnovers. Each player took turns throwing it away , hitting the side of the basket , not executing a simple pass, bounce or chest. It really was mind numbing.
But give the team some credit for coming from 10 down to take 4 point lead and then proceed to forget how to make a foul shot. Missing 15 foul shots including by Dylan and ACE was almost impossible to believe it happened but I was there and witnessed it. So instead of going up 6, then 8, then 10 because we actually got stops on 3 straight possessions , we allow them to tie game.
As a whole the strides made in the first half against a good Penn State team disappeared. Thought because of the absence of assists , we tried to let individual guys drive on their man , Dylan , Ace , Jordan or Jeremiah instead of passing the ball. Dylan did not do a good job getting his teammates looks when it was obvious he was being doubled. Curious why no E and no Lathan looks as we finally had the height and I think toughness advantage in the front line center spot and did not go there almost the whole night. Very strange. Especially how much the offense was struggling.

Ace kept us afloat in the first half with 15 points and 6 rebounds but the fact he only ended with 21 and 8 was shocking . There was no pick and pop with Dylan , which should have been run 15 times. Eliminating PJ or Acuff from our offense is not what I would call smart. I know why Pike did it , in his mind defense was going to win the game and why he went with Jordan, Jeremiah and JMike and benched Acuff and PJ. But if he tweaked his offense to get PJ and Acuff looks then lockdown defense would not have been needed. We all watched the first half of the Penn State game and I described it as the blueprint. Pike went as far away from the blueprint as possible.
The sloppiness and lack of contest at the rim in the first half was tough to watch. Not 1 , not 2 but 3 facials of our players. Okay Seton Hall seemed to play more motivated in a rivalry game but the failure to match that intensity is a coaching failure and a player failure.

At the end of the day an ugly ugly win is still a win and we are 7-4 and only 1 game off pace but damn once we have seen high level play against Alabama , Texas A& M and Penn State , it is so hard to accept this type of performance still occurs. I know we are young and have transfers but the 2 NBA freshman are mostly doing more than their fair share. The whole rest of the team is not. I am not asking for outstanding play just competent , aggressive , competitive basketball . Asking 8 apiece from Jeremiah and Jordan and 6 from PJ , capable of so much more , 4 -6 from Acuff. Then 10-15 from Ogbole and Lathan with some rim protection and rebounding effort on both ends , will be enough most nights because we have Dylan and ACE. Pike has to get these guys to play from the jump and play 40 minutes. Not sure he has done a good job of instilling that simple mission.

Excellent assessment

 

[bac2therac]

We are slowly getting better on D

Ill agree with this. But its a race against time

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Ill agree with this. But its a race against time

I looked at the 11 games starting with Jan 2.......Oi

I thought you were being overdramatic saying a loss would have killed our NCAA hopes, but.......

if you look at the metrics......i understand and agree with arguments against doing so..... but this was our 2nd worst game of the year.

We finally held a team under 1 point per possession, but it was a 340th ranked offense and that should have been a given (in theory)

It is a race against time and I don't feel like we are progressing, but I have always said progress is NOT linear. I am seeing progress in spots.

What gets me worried.........
Our defense out of the 5 is the weak link (on D). maybe it improves a little, but not sure enough
All of the supporting cast seem to be trending lower!
We are running out of players that Pike feels comfortable with...JaMike playing by default
Harper and Bailey WILL hit a wall at sometime. It is almost a given

 

[NickRU714]

I rewatched the end of the game and coming out of the timeout 2 SHU guys were set to cover Dylan on the inbound. About 2 seconds before the inbound one of them inexplicably moved away.

Noticed this as well.
I'm assuming Holloway told him to leave?
Incredibly bad decision.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Look at the 1st 6 (5) home games in the New Year.

Holy smokes

Sorry…MSU at MSG is plain dumb

 

[FAT MOON]

Hot damn boys...two pages of posts and 90% are doom and gloom

I get it the team has major concerns but our SUPERSTAR Frosh just pulled up from the Jersey Mike's logo and buried a time expiring 3 point dagger right in our oldest rivals face. How are more people not HAPPY for one freaking day?!?!?!?! Should be at least a few hours of singing the Harper families praises, showing side by sides of the game winners, asking where Dylan ranks on the all time RU greats after 11 games (lol), no???

Did people think we were just gonna bury SHU today? Doesn't happen often in rivalry games. I mean a way down Michigan just beat natty title hopes OSU. I don't want to hear this doesn't mean anything anymore. Coaches want this win bad. Players were chippy as hell out there. Both teams wanted that trophy...badly.

We need two things. Wins. And development. We've gotten two dubs in a row. Is the development happening fast enough? Prob not, but as someone said above, it's not linear.

Enjoy the win. Lock in and get back to work at practice. Beat Princeton. Period.

 

[RUtrumpet92]

Look at the 1st 6 (5) home games in the New Year.

Holy smokes

Sorry…MSU at MSG is plain dumb

I'll drink the Kool Aid here. I see lots of Q1 chances that will make our resume look great if we cash some in.

Get to 9-4, clearly we need to do that.

Wisconsin stats look like Wisconsin. Good FT%, they don't turn it over, and they don't block shots. But they are another program we've matched up well with, or is that my imagination?

Why is Purdue scary this year? Kaufman-Renn is no Edey. They lost badly at Penn State. They get nothing from their bench most nights. I think they are overrated.

I haven't seen a second of UCLA playing. They have a couple of road wins. I dont see their team stats all that exceptional in anything. RAC should be packed for a true blue blood's first visit. It's thr start of the spring semester, so the student section should be packed.

Let their fans be thinking, oh no, how do we stop Ace and Dylan?

 

[coldsprings]

The pessimist says Pike can't coach and didn't put together a good supporting team.

The optimist says the team and Pike will put it together and make a run in the NCAAs.

The lover of reality says we have a one-in-a-lifetime opportunity to enjoy two first-round picks on the same Rutgers team.

My mindset moves between all three states. I'm happiest when I love reality.

 

[fluoxetine]

We talk alot about the transfers in, but what we really need is more out of Ace (I will admit that 1-8 FT is a strange anomoly that is unlikely to repeat itself but in general he is making enough mistakes and has been inefficient enough that he hasn't really been helping us win games) and Jeremiah Williams.

 

[zebnatto]

Mine is the obvious take: We really looked lousy, but thank God we won.

The early part of the game was unwatchable. We seemed totally unprepared for SHU's aggressive, trapping defense, thus the huge number of turnovers. That's on coaching staff.

In team terms, Ace and Dylan are on a level all their own. With everyone else you're measuring cost/benefit.

A few particulars: Jeremiah as experience captain should be settling team down when needed. The intensity and rah-rah is great, but sometimes you need the opposite--settle, get composed, we got this--which doesn't seem Jeremiah's strength.

Jordan flips my switch. From awsome to awful minute by minute (though awesome may be a bit strong).

With Lathan: be patient. The kid has both talent and a chip on his shoulder.

EO is a slightly upgraded version of EO.

JMike: Yes, I can see using him situationally, but is overall a net minus.

Tyson I tend to see as a 10-15 mpg guy. Not much to his game except the ability to put the ball in the hoop.

 

[ru66]

What a laugh about milk and cookies, your recap novels are always sour, bitter, complaining diatribes.

 

[bac2therac]

What a laugh about milk and cookies, your recap novels are always sour, bitter, complaining diatribes.

Did Sweetpea piss in your Metamucil?

 

[G- RUnit]

This one isnt as complicated as youre making it. Rivalries dont mean as much when the kids playing in them havent played against each other before and have no real connection to the school.

SHU doesnt even have 1 jersey kid on their entire roster. Like 3 total kids played in this game last year between both teams. And yeS, thats because NIL

It’s the fans that make the rivalry.
Everybody else is over complicating it.
In NJ it’s also basically Essex County vrs the rest of the State.
Our biggest rivalry for years was Rutgers v Princeton. It wasn’t ever because players from both schools came from New Jersey.

Mets v Yankees still best attendance of the season even if players are now friendly with each other. It’s the fans. Why is this so difficult to comprehend.

It’s just a weird spin. Maybe players don’t want to kill each or hate each other anymore but it still means an awful lot to the fans.

The RAC was louder for SHU than it was for PSU.

 

[ru66]

Did Sweetpea piss in your Metamucil?

Try a new line--- I have no trouble shyting everyday. You however are full of it and it's never eliminated.

 

[kt124]

Did people think we were just gonna bury SHU today?

frankly, yes, we were at home and they are a trash team this season. monmouth has one (1) win this season and it’s against seton hall. so yes, we should have buried them.

 

[Shelby65]

Holloway outcoached Pikiell today. As I said he looked like a fool on last play. The fact this was a tie game with 6 seconds is an indictment of Pike. Its not about Holloway really

Does the gaffe by the SHU coach on the last play make Pike a good coach??? Why not at least try to double him while we tried to inbound the ball? What a gift.

Pike is a terrible coach when it comes to offense. TERRIBLE. He just rolls the ball out there and says "good luck". There is no semblance of a plan. No one knows their role.

Meanwhile, opponents seem to be very effective attacking mismatches. When they get the matchup they want, the other 4 offensive players immediately recognize it and don't get in the way. Everyone's on the same page..... coaching.

Yes he does just let them play streetball with minimal structure, but that’s the strategy. That’s having your scorers beat their defenders. With this weak roster 4 through 8, Shelby sees good coaching.

God help us if Harper ever dishes to Derkack or Williams or most of the others for jump shots.

In fact, if we saw more of that there would be outrage about the tomato cans on the team taking too many shots.

 

[aplus29]

I know people think or believe what they want to believe, but Seton Hall has put together a pretty solid roster of pieces.....at some point, the talent on the roster has to improve and make them better, but the last game against Oklahoma State was hideous in the 1st half and much more competitive in the 2nd half.....and with a full week to prepare for RU, they would be ready.

RU had a hard fought, must have B1G game on Tuesday, so the let down was inevitable for today.

If Pike is such a terrible coach, how does Holloway, allow the best, 2nd best or at worst the 3rd best freshman in all of CBB, to.

A) get an inbounds ball clean.

B) Offer no pressure on Dylan advancing the ball.

C) No double team to force Dylan to give up the ball and make JWill, JMike or Ace Bailey beat them.

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Add in Chaunce Jenkins as a grad transfer from ODU (averaged 16PPG) and now averaging 12PPG at Seton Hall and the roster isn't exactly as bad as it's made out to be.....

Holloway has a Top 35, 55, 81 and 115 range kid all from the 2023 class and is 5-6, with 4 close losses and a win over a decent VCU squad.

I think some perspective on coaching needs to be really evaluated, because we have idiots on other threads parroting how great Holloway is.....you don't get credit for crapping the bed for the 1sf 5 weeks of the season, then play one solid game for 40 minutes and get a A on the exam because it's your rival in-state.

But, carry on as many fans tend to do, with literally no idea what they're talking about.

Coaching is about developing players, or putting them in position to succeed OR in the Seton Hall perspective, allowing 2 freshman with less than 10 games of experience, wipe the floor with you.....

Seton hall is able to land 3 high major transfers plus ODU… and we d*ck around with the ucsd, Princeton, Merrimack (Derkack has been good), and EMU (possibly the worst team in the country)…and never got a center

Pike screwed the pooch on the roster for DH and Ace

 

[lion1983]

We talk alot about the transfers in, but what we really need is more out of Ace (I will admit that 1-8 FT is a strange anomoly that is unlikely to repeat itself but in general he is making enough mistakes and has been inefficient enough that he hasn't really been helping us win games) and Jeremiah Williams.

I have no idea where you get this conclusion from.

Bailey is the 3rd leading freshman scorer in the country (behind only Harper and Tre Johnson). As far as consistency ... he has been in double figures scoring each of his 9 games (Flagg cannot say that), has 20+ points 4 times, a double-double 3 times and in 7 of 9 games he has scored 15 or more points.

Bailey is shooting47% FG, 35% 3-point FG, an eFG% of 51.5%, and 51% flat from 2-point range. He has hit 50% or better of his FG's in a single game 5 times of 9 games

He does have a few too many turnovers, it is true (22 in 9 games), and hardly any assists - he plays a lot of ISO - but hits his shots, so other than passing to Harper it is actually generally better for RU or him to shoot than to pass..

His defense does have to keep improving - he is not consistent there (some solid moments, some good help blocked shots, but sometimes slow to close on the 3-point line or to rotate properly). Even so, he is averaging 1.1 steals per game - mainly on sheer athleticism.

He also does have to get more consistent with his rebounding effort, but is averaging 7.1 rebounds per game as a pure WF... he is often playing the "4" and occasionally the "5" slot for RU, but by body type, skill set and inclination he is a pure WF, not a PF. Since the Alabama game where he grabbed just 4 rebounds, playing way too soft on rebounding, he has at least 7 rebounds each of the last 4 games, double digit twice, grabbing a total of 39 rebounds in those 4 games - 9.8 rebounds per game.

And we have not even seen his best game yet! Meaning he WILL very likely have a game where he really hits shots on all cylinders, and scores 30+ points.

Not sure what more you would want - except what we all want, continued (though it may not be linear) improvement and development.

 

[FAT MOON]

I have no idea where you get this conclusion from.

Bailey is the 3rd leading freshman scorer in the country (behind only Harper and Tre Johnson). As far as consistency ... he has been in double figures scoring each of his 9 games (Flagg cannot say that), has 20+ points 4 times, a double-double 3 times and in 7 of 9 games he has scored 15 or more points.

Bailey is shooting47% FG, 35% 3-point FG, an eFG% of 51.5%, and 51% flat from 2-point range. He has hit 50% or better of his FG's in a single game 5 times of 9 games

He does have a few too many turnovers, it is true (22 in 9 games), and hardly any assists - he plays a lot of ISO - but hits his shots, so other than passing to Harper it is actually generally better for RU or him to shoot than to pass..

His defense does have to keep improving - he is not consistent there (some solid moments, some good help blocked shots, but sometimes slow to close on the 3-point line or to rotate properly). Even so, he is averaging 1.1 steals per game - mainly on sheer athleticism.

He also does have to get more consistent with his rebounding effort, but is averaging 7.1 rebounds per game as a pure WF... he is often playing the "4" and occasionally the "5" slot for RU, but by body type, skill set and inclination he is a pure WF, not a PF. Since the Alabama game where he grabbed just 4 rebounds, playing way too soft on rebounding, he has at least 7 rebounds each of the last 4 games, double digit twice, grabbing a total of 39 rebounds in those 4 games - 9.8 rebounds per game.

And we have not even seen his best game yet! Meaning he WILL very likely have a game where he really hits shots on all cylinders, and scores 30+ points.

Not sure what more you would want - except what we all want, continued (though it may not be linear) improvement and development.

Feels like you are both correct here.

Ace has been fantastic for a Frosh and has elite level scoring. And since he's started focusing on rebounding he is really starting to impose his will on games.

But he hasn't been near as good as Harper overall (NO shame in that) and it does seem like with our current roster he will need to be close if we are REALLY going places this season.

As you said, defense needs to keep improving. Also want to see him play above the rim more. Shocked at how few dunks he's had. I had envisioned him THROWING down a bunch of offensive rebound "where the hell did he come from" type dunks by now. And getting his teammates more involved, esp when those double teams come.

 

[fluoxetine]

I have no idea where you get this conclusion from.

Bailey is the 3rd leading freshman scorer in the country (behind only Harper and Tre Johnson). As far as consistency ... he has been in double figures scoring each of his 9 games (Flagg cannot say that), has 20+ points 4 times, a double-double 3 times and in 7 of 9 games he has scored 15 or more points.

Bailey is shooting47% FG, 35% 3-point FG, an eFG% of 51.5%, and 51% flat from 2-point range. He has hit 50% or better of his FG's in a single game 5 times of 9 games

He does have a few too many turnovers, it is true (22 in 9 games), and hardly any assists - he plays a lot of ISO - but hits his shots, so other than passing to Harper it is actually generally better for RU or him to shoot than to pass..

His defense does have to keep improving - he is not consistent there (some solid moments, some good help blocked shots, but sometimes slow to close on the 3-point line or to rotate properly). Even so, he is averaging 1.1 steals per game - mainly on sheer athleticism.

He also does have to get more consistent with his rebounding effort, but is averaging 7.1 rebounds per game as a pure WF... he is often playing the "4" and occasionally the "5" slot for RU, but by body type, skill set and inclination he is a pure WF, not a PF. Since the Alabama game where he grabbed just 4 rebounds, playing way too soft on rebounding, he has at least 7 rebounds each of the last 4 games, double digit twice, grabbing a total of 39 rebounds in those 4 games - 9.8 rebounds per game.

And we have not even seen his best game yet! Meaning he WILL very likely have a game where he really hits shots on all cylinders, and scores 30+ points.

Not sure what more you would want - except what we all want, continued (though it may not be linear) improvement and development.

Ace is the second best player on our team. My point is not that Ace is playing badly. But he has been a merely decent to good player at the college power conference level. 51.5% eFG is fine, it's not great. The turnovers etc as you mention.

Ace is the player on our team, by far, with the biggest gap between what he is right now and what he has the potential to be. Hayes, Derkack, Martini, etc are not making some meteoric leap in the 2nd part of the season. But Ace could, and that's what we need (in addition to better production from Williams, who has shown he can do it, as well as Acuff).

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

We were horrible from line, make 20 out of 28 and we win by what 7? Bailey was 1-8. That is like Rashod Kent.

And teams are going to hack him good from now on

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

The pessimist says Pike can't coach and didn't put together a good supporting team.

The optimist says the team and Pike will put it together and make a run in the NCAAs.

The lover of reality says we have a one-in-a-lifetime opportunity to enjoy two first-round picks on the same Rutgers team.

My mindset moves between all three states. I'm happiest when I love reality.

The problem is caused by preseason hype. We all should have been more cautious. Top teams reloaded with experienced talented players vis xfer and NIL. Assuming two frosh, no matter how talented, could trump that was just dreaming. Maybe by the end of the season.. but that is when we will see reports of the freshman hitting the wall.

As others have said.. Ace and Dylan need help.. but they also need to USE the help they got. Dylan has gone one on 2 or 3 and still scored.. Ace, not so much. We need assists from Ace and Dylan as much as we need their scoring. Lets see some double-doubles including the assists column.