Farmer was a very good player who got royally screwed by the joke that was Fred Hill
Foreman Transferring
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Farmer was a very good player who got royally screwed by the joke that was Fred Hill
You don't have to do that because that is my point. I think Mitchell's number would be the same or better and Hodgson's numbers go way down. If the D keys on Hodgson, he can't create his own shot.
Big picture only matters if you dont fire the coach after three years (the short term). What happens when he has no depth year one and two, recruits two classes, including his best class containing two 4 stars, and then has 4 players miss a total of 60 games in year 3?
Yes this is a flame. But really just trying to make people realize the importance of having a full and balanced roster. I'm not worked up about these two transfers AT ALL, but eventually, people need to realized there is starting at ground zero (full roster) and starting below ground zero. If you start below ground zero, you're not gonna succeed in 3 years. It's quite simple. I don't see why the fan base will be any more patient this time around.
Key point - no more transfers is the best scenario and anything else DOES hurt us big picture.
my answer is Jordan was NEVER the answer. He didnt work hard and have the energy..all the fears were true. So its pretty easy to respond to your post. You dont need to give someone 5 years if you already know he isnt the right guy
Hate to say it, but you're probably right.
Not because you're right about Jordan, but because I would rather think the program he took over was his downfall and that doesn't look like the case anymore.
I think Jordan thought running a college program would be a lot easier then he found it to be and didn't put the work in needed to overcome what he had facing him.
Mitchell's senior year was comparable overall to Hodgson's senior year... but that was Mitchell's one really good year, while Hodgson had several.
Just comparing senior seasons:
Mitchell: 14.4 pts (.449 FG%, .392 3P%), 5.6 rbs, 0.9 ast, 0.8 stl, 0.6 blk
Hodgson: 12.8 pts (.456 FG%, .406 3P%), 5.6 rbs, 2.1 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.4 blk
Comparable offensively, but JMitch took far more shots (365 to Hodgson's 258). Hodgson had double the assists and steals.
Now compare their junior seasons:
Mitchell: 11.8 pts (.402 FG%, .346 3P%), 6.1 rbs, 1.4 ast, 0.9 stl, 0.3 blk
Hodgson: 13.2 pts (.457 FG%, .366 3P%), 5.4 rbs, 1.3 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.4 blk
Again, Mitchell took far more shots (348 to Hodgson's 248) to get his points.
And Hodgson also had two additional years at RU:
Soph: 11.9 pts (.424 FG%, .359 3P%), 4.9 rbs, 1.1 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.7 blk
Frosh: 7.3 pts (.359 FG%, .282 3P%), 4.9 rbs, 1.4 ast, 1.7 stl, 0.4 blk
Hodgson was just a consistently more efficient scorer than JMitch, getting his points on far fewer shots. Hodgson was just an overall better player on the banks than JMitch was, and spent four years here to JMitch's two - though JMitch's senior season was excellent, but still just comparable (and slightly behind) Hodgson's.
This. An AD earns his money by making the right call on whether extend or move to a new coach after 3 years. It is not just about wins and losses, but is the coach doing the things that will lead to improved performance down the road.
thank you for providing these stats as it pretty much definitively answers who was the better player. I like Mitchell but one year of similar season to Hodgson does not make him a better player when Rob had 3 other seasons over very good ball as well. Never forget the blood and guts he poured out...quite literally in the one Syracuse game
He's actually 5th all time... Mack passed him with 425 (Farmer finished with 371). In his freshman year with Douby, he had 124 assists... in his other three years, he averaged 82. Without Douby, he'd have had closer to 328 for his career (still good for 7th... but behind Coburn with 367, and Santiago with 350). Regardless, we haven't had a lot of top PGs come through... you need to average 78/year to make the top 10. Farmer's best single season of assists ranks just 18th (124), and that was the same year Douby had the single season scoring record.
He's 32nd on the all time scoring list (8th among players who saw the court in the last 20 years).
Farmer was a very good player for us - but I don't know if I'd put him on a Mt. Rushmore of the last 20-25 years.
yes I believed he did....I was always thought Jordan may have been better positioned for success if he came in after Waters but now Im not so sure, I dont think Jordan is a college coach period and understood what it entails..add in he was hired with no AD in place and he didnt get the guidance he needed, then when Julie came in she immediately had her own issues to deal with but heard she wasnt particularly a fan of Eddie.
Farmer was the only member of the FIG class that seemed to tolerate Hill and even he got done in by him. If Farmer had Waters coaching him Im convinced that Farmer would have end up with better stats and appreciated more and I also think that the IG part of the class would also have turned out better.
So did Big East Coaches. They voted him 3rd Team All Big East in 1999, the same year he was the Big East Men's Basketball Scholar Athlete of the Year.
Averaged 10 points a game once. "Terrific" defensive player? Don't remember him being some kind of defensive stopper. Decent player and a rare 4 year player. That's it.
If you noticed I said a recruit is looking ABOVE at other programs. Meaning that he was tall.....A reference to Thiam rescinding on his commitment which he did today so ok for me to state it now.
Sorry my contacts do not want some things out there totally. Just wanted everyone to know it was coming and I still feel brighter days are ahead.
I agree with you Hodgson had a better career at RU. My response was about who was the better player. Mitchell only played 2 here because he was recruited to play for FL. I will say it again. I like Hodgson's game but Mitchell is the better player. I do wish we can have similar conversations about more recent players.
I disagree with those that posted that Foreman was not improving. The fact that his numbers were the same in the very tough big 10 schedule as during the weak out of conference schedule itself shows improvement. He was at eight points and six rebounds for both, and shot about 48% for both. That is not a bad shooting percentage even for a four man. And his free-throw shooting was improving, I think he was about 64% in league play.
That said, I was very surprised when I had a conversation on Saturday with someone VERY intimately involved. He seemed less concerned with the loss then me.
Even though the person very much involved with the situation did not seem concerned, I am still very worried about going into the season lacking the two deep that is necessary to run a practice. I think that some of the people who post on the board are painfully naïve about the importance of being able to run live situations in practice.
That said, I was very surprised when I had a conversation on Saturday with someone VERY intimately involved. He seemed less concerned with the loss then me.
Even though the person very much involved with the situation did not seem concerned, I am still very worried about going into the season lacking the two deep that is necessary to run a practice. I think that some of the people who post on the board are painfully naïve about the importance of being able to run live situations in practice.
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I don't see any messages on this thread from BK? What are you referencing.
Are you saying that BK is saying that Thiam is not looking to other programs or that he feels gloomy days are ahead?
Fans will be patient when patience is warranted. If Pikiell's Year 3 looks like Jordan's - 40-point losses, blowouts to unranked teams, a record-setting home loss and a near record-setting conference losing streak - then folks will call for his head, and rightly so.
Let's hope he doesn't have 6 or 7 scholarship players for a large portion of the season.
Posted this in the Nova thread, but thought I'd post it here also.
Villanova last night started 2 Seniors, 2 Juniors and a Freshman
Kris Jenkins (Frosh): 4.1ppg/37.3% FG/1.8rpg
Kris Jenkins (Junior): 13.6 ppg/45.9% FG/3.9rpg
Josh Hart (Frosh): 7.8ppg/50% FG/4.4rpg
Josh Hart (Junior): 15.5ppg/51.3% FG/ 6.8rpg
Daniel Ochefu (Frosh): 3.5ppg/45.9% FG/4.1rpg
Daniel Ochefu (Senior): 10.0 ppg/62.7% FG/7.5rpg
The idea kids are finished products as freshman and sophomores is foolish. A bunch of Freshman and Sophs aren't leading Rutgers anywhere. And Pikiell will likely have a roster of frosh and sophs into Year 3 of his tenure as HC.
Good news is Hobbs and then after him Pat Lyons stuck with Ralph Willard for 6 years at SHU in the face of pretty much their entire fan base screaming for Willard's head. For the first time since Waters I think we are going to see an HC coaching his 5th season at Rutgers regardless of results in Year 1, Year 2 and Year 3. And that is a very good thing.
Villanova last night started 2 Seniors, 2 Juniors and a Freshman
Kris Jenkins (Frosh): 4.1ppg/37.3% FG/1.8rpg
Kris Jenkins (Junior): 13.6 ppg/45.9% FG/3.9rpg
Josh Hart (Frosh): 7.8ppg/50% FG/4.4rpg
Josh Hart (Junior): 15.5ppg/51.3% FG/ 6.8rpg
Daniel Ochefu (Frosh): 3.5ppg/45.9% FG/4.1rpg
Daniel Ochefu (Senior): 10.0 ppg/62.7% FG/7.5rpg
The idea kids are finished products as freshman and sophomores is foolish. A bunch of Freshman and Sophs aren't leading Rutgers anywhere. And Pikiell will likely have a roster of frosh and sophs into Year 3 of his tenure as HC.
Good news is Hobbs and then after him Pat Lyons stuck with Ralph Willard for 6 years at SHU in the face of pretty much their entire fan base screaming for Willard's head. For the first time since Waters I think we are going to see an HC coaching his 5th season at Rutgers regardless of results in Year 1, Year 2 and Year 3. And that is a very good thing.
answer is somewhere in between....those kids #s are down because they have a program with a foundation and send 3+ kids a year off on senior day each year playing all 4 years. take those 3 kids as frosh on RU the past few years and they have numbers as freshmen better than JR or SR years.
I agree with your original premise that players do improve a lot in 4 years and winning teams are usually junior and senior oriented.....and realisticly we need 4-5 years before sniffing .500 if done right.
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