Freeman
- Thread starter richthedentist
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I would argue that he has been too consistently bad against Power conference competition. His best game was against MSU when he had the flu and let the game come to him, didn’t force shots and had a couple of easy dunks. The only other good game he had v. a power conference team was against Wisconsin, who apart from Happ (who did not defend Freeman) has a a very weak front court. (Freeman did play his Best D of the year in that game against Happ). The other 6 games against power conference competition he was awful. He shot 5-18 (27%) against MN, 4-16 (25%) against FSU, 3-10 (30%) against MSU at the RAC, 4-13 (31%) against PUR, 3-14. (21%) against SHU and 1-12 (.083%) last night against OSU. Those numbers are terrible for a PF. I don’t have to even look to know that they are most likely the worst of any PF in the Big 10.
good question. I had this long discussion with my buddy before the Wisconsin game last week.
I don't know as I think it will come down to how the other pieces play off one another. If Shaq is able to make us forget about Freeman, then yes. But if Shaq also needs to play some of Sa's role, then I think we have a bit of a hole.
I think we have a tendency to think of only the bad things a departing player does, and not enough of the good things. there is no question, that DF does more good than bad. That wasn't the case last night. But there have been numerous games that Freeman is a major factor in our W. I don't know a lot about Carter other than what I have read which is that he should help a lot. If Carter can play more "in the system" then maybe we'll be better. But it's hard to say.
Put it this way, I am not doing handstands that he's graduating (like many in this thread, which I don't understand at all).
Against stronger competition (B1G, FSU, SHU), Freeman's averaging 25.5 min, 11.4 pts (.300 FG%), 7.6 rb, 0.4 ast, 0.6 blk, 1.3 TO, 2.5 PF.
Against other Div-I competition, he's averaged 27.0 min, 11.1 pts (.460 FG%), 7.0 rb, 1.2 ast, 1.3 blk, 1.9 TO, 1.9 PF
So, with the step up in competition, he's fallen off a bit in assists, blocks, fouls, and shooting percentage. He's improved in rebounds and turnovers. Points have remained the same, but he's taking almost four more shots per game to get there.
Hoping Shaq comes in and gives us strong production at that spot, and that a year-older Omoruyi does, too. Right now, though, he's one of the best players we've got - except for the few games where he doesn't seem to show up.
Against other Div-I competition, he's averaged 27.0 min, 11.1 pts (.460 FG%), 7.0 rb, 1.2 ast, 1.3 blk, 1.9 TO, 1.9 PF
So, with the step up in competition, he's fallen off a bit in assists, blocks, fouls, and shooting percentage. He's improved in rebounds and turnovers. Points have remained the same, but he's taking almost four more shots per game to get there.
Hoping Shaq comes in and gives us strong production at that spot, and that a year-older Omoruyi does, too. Right now, though, he's one of the best players we've got - except for the few games where he doesn't seem to show up.
Who are you replacing him with?
For the rest of the year I would start Eugene and bring Freeman off the bench. I'd also start Shaq and rotate in Duke and Sa every 4/5 minutes.
We have 5 losses right now. 2 to Mich. St, 1 to Ohio St., Purdue and Minn. Other than Minn who's having some problems right now the others are the top 3 teams in the league. From here on we only have 2 games left with the 'Elites' and we have 5 home games against the rest of the pack. We have 1 home game against Purdue.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
id personally give eugene more minutes than freeman, he's earned it.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Two big issues with Freeman is that
1) He is undersized and doesn't matchup up well with certain teams and
2) He often plays out of his realm and tries to do too much.
Nothing you can do about 1).
I think 2) occurs because of the lack of depth, shooters and play makers on this squad. Other than Sanders, Baker and Eugene we have nobody that can get a quality shot off on their own.
Doucoure, Sa and Doorson are nice pieces but they can't be relied on for any type of consistency. We really miss a Gettys type player who is comfortable with the ball in their hands in the post/paint to open up the floor.
Thiam still struggles to get his shot off with a man in his face. He's shown some flashes of drives to the hoop but he needs another year of S&C. Wish we could have redshirted him.
Mensah won't even take a shot with his defender giving him 8 feet. Literally adds zero value on the offensive end.
I think Freeman realizes this and tries to do too much, often resulting in erratic plays and forced shots. He sometimes comes across as selfish but I think that's a direct result of the players around him.
Anyone thinking we would be better without him is knows zilch about bball or this team. Also I hate when people constantly hype up high schoolers every year that haven't stepped foot on a college campus and say they're better than current players. Saying we would be better off with Shaq Carter vs. Freeman is laughable.
We all had huge expectations out of Doucoure this year. The dude averages a foul a minute and can't stay on the court for his life.
1) He is undersized and doesn't matchup up well with certain teams and
2) He often plays out of his realm and tries to do too much.
Nothing you can do about 1).
I think 2) occurs because of the lack of depth, shooters and play makers on this squad. Other than Sanders, Baker and Eugene we have nobody that can get a quality shot off on their own.
Doucoure, Sa and Doorson are nice pieces but they can't be relied on for any type of consistency. We really miss a Gettys type player who is comfortable with the ball in their hands in the post/paint to open up the floor.
Thiam still struggles to get his shot off with a man in his face. He's shown some flashes of drives to the hoop but he needs another year of S&C. Wish we could have redshirted him.
Mensah won't even take a shot with his defender giving him 8 feet. Literally adds zero value on the offensive end.
I think Freeman realizes this and tries to do too much, often resulting in erratic plays and forced shots. He sometimes comes across as selfish but I think that's a direct result of the players around him.
Anyone thinking we would be better without him is knows zilch about bball or this team. Also I hate when people constantly hype up high schoolers every year that haven't stepped foot on a college campus and say they're better than current players. Saying we would be better off with Shaq Carter vs. Freeman is laughable.
We all had huge expectations out of Doucoure this year. The dude averages a foul a minute and can't stay on the court for his life.
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sorry, please name what?
should I link his stats?
have you listened to any of the post game pressers where Pikiell talks about what he brings to the team? the games where his defense leads to offense (hint...watch the Wisconsin game).
or how about the article where he is named team captain?
or how about our OOC wins which have brought us much needed respectability the past 2 years...do we get there without Freeman? NFW.
just stop with this nonsense. you're embarrassing yourself.
Freeman is not perfect. But to suggest he's a net-negative is exactly why it's hard to take you seriously when you get on your drum-banging tirades.
Kyk
IMO if you did that you would have games in the 40's.
The Coach knows what he's doing let him handle it.
IMO if you did that you would have games in the 40's.
The Coach knows what he's doing let him handle it.
The most frustrating thing about Freeman is his refusal to pass to more open teammates. This must be frustrating to both coaches and teammates.
So despite some of the good things that he does, the team will be better off without him next year IMO.
So despite some of the good things that he does, the team will be better off without him next year IMO.
Freeman is very frustrating. Last year I thought he was a warrior but this year there is too much me first. I need to disagree with many on here about the offense going on a roll late in the game because Freeman was on out (although it could be a part of it). If I remember correctly a good portion of tOSU starters were out. I remember at least three or four subbing in and all of a sudden we weren't scoring. Could have been Freeman or personnel in the game or both.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
I truly can't believe that you're being serious when arguing that freeman is helping this team haha. I just can't. Being named a captain doesn't make you one of the best players or an asset to the team winning games, see dadika. I'm sorry but freeman doing well against coppin state isn't that exciting to me
He could help the team if he played under control.
If he would stop doing the following he'd become an asset to the team.
1) Shooting 3's.
2) jogging back on D
3) Trying to dunk everything when a layup will suffice
4) not pass out of double teams on the block.
5) facing up on the wing and shooting fade aways
6) facing up on the wing and backing down doing an insane spin move and turning it over for an easy transition bucket
7) not passing the rock on fast breaks
8) getting the ball at the elbow and putting his head down and driving into the trees only the get stuffed.
If he'd stop doing the above, he'd be an asset. Right now he's killing us
My opinion:
Freeman is making mistakes that hurt the team, but I feel those mistakes are because he's trying to do more than his talent calls for.
He's stepping up , but doesn't have the skill set to do some of the things he's trying to do.
On a bad shooting team, a player who is a leader, like Freeman , tries to do to much if he thinks it's needed
Freeman is making mistakes that hurt the team, but I feel those mistakes are because he's trying to do more than his talent calls for.
He's stepping up , but doesn't have the skill set to do some of the things he's trying to do.
On a bad shooting team, a player who is a leader, like Freeman , tries to do to much if he thinks it's needed
Possibly.
But isn’t effective leadership knowing your own strengths and weaknesses along with your teammates?
For example, what does he keep shooting 3s?
He’s a senior, he knows that when he has more than one player guard him then somebody is open.
I'm normally OK with Freeman but he was God awful last night, maybe even worse than that - and yeah, his shooting percentage is better than Corey, Geo and Williams, but most of his shots are only from three feet. His percentage should be better. I don't know if you were at the game last night, but he almost took us out of the game by himself.
In conference play, his shooting percentage is .329, which is behind all players but Baker, Sa, and Mensah. If you focus only on 2P%, he's at .355, which is 6th on the team ahead of Thiam, Baker, Sa, and Mensah.
Throw in FSU and SHU, and those numbers are worse. His shooting percentage has suffered against quality teams on the schedule. Other than MSU (.714) and Wisconsin (.500), he hasn't shot better than .364 against any other conference opponent (or against FSU/SHU).
He really needs to eliminate the 3P attempts unless he's got the ball outside the arc with less than 3 seconds left on the shot clock. He also needs to pass the ball back out of the post when the double team comes, and look for a teammate on the fast break. Too many empty possessions because he's trying to force the issue when there are better shots available.
Freeman and Sa are mid major players. Souf's size might make him a low level D1 player. Offensively, he's not even a D2 player. Dadika wouldn't start for a good D2 team, and probably wouldn't be the best guard in the NJAC. That's how good a job Pikiel is doing. Stay the course.
No one is a bigger fan of Freeman than I am
But he had a simply horrible game ve OSYU...no doubt
He was ill last game & didnt look well this game
He has won us a number of games. Normally he contributes but last night he was just horrible.
You geniusis that want to sit him. Are you somehow a better coach than coach P now?
I knew we would have some people turn on him....heck i could hardly believe the stats myself
I assure you he WILL play more this season and he WILL have some good games
But he had a simply horrible game ve OSYU...no doubt
He was ill last game & didnt look well this game
He has won us a number of games. Normally he contributes but last night he was just horrible.
You geniusis that want to sit him. Are you somehow a better coach than coach P now?
I knew we would have some people turn on him....heck i could hardly believe the stats myself
I assure you he WILL play more this season and he WILL have some good games
I am fine with his taking 3 point shot
Not OK with effort on D end
Definitely not OK with his decisions with the ball in the low post.
Not OK with effort on D end
Definitely not OK with his decisions with the ball in the low post.
He played 18 min last night to Omoruyi's 25, so I think Pike saw what we were seeing during that game, too. He just didn't have it against OSU.
Why are you fine with his taking 3 pointers? He's a career .238 3P shooter, and is shooting just .167 this year. And despite all that, he's shooting them more often.
He's shot 50% more threes this year than he did all of last year, and has made just 4 vs. last year's 6. He shouldn't be taking this shot unless it's very late in the shot clock and there are no other options.
.167? That would make him close to our Steph Curry.
(Don't really see the need for a whole thread dedicated to rather nasty attacks on one of our players. Thought this sort of thing wasn't supposed to happen on the board.)
This board has always dissected player performances. Sanders has gotten much more than his fair share over the last couple of years, and the microscope was definitely going to swing toward Freeman after his performance in the OSU game.
He's still one of our best players, and will still see 25+ minutes per game the rest of the way - and will certainly bounce back to turn in more strong performances. That doesn't mean he's immune to criticism, though. Or that he should have a green light to shoot threes, imo.
Don't mind criticism. But some comments are personal and uncalled for. There is a board policy on attacks against players. Again, criticism is OK, nasty attacks are not.
I think Freeman is averaging around 25 minutes a game and Omoruyi slightly under that at the PF spot .
Freeman shouldn’t be considered a top recruit but the bridge needed ( at the time he was recruited) to help the roster be more competitive as better talent was recruited.
Under Jordan that wasn’t possible, but I think many of us are expecting more out of Freeman, under Pike, than we can expect from someone recruited to fill a need by Jordan , but really doesn’t have the type of talent to excel on a constant bases.
Deshawn on a better team wouldn’t be expected to do what RU fans expect them to, but with the lack of talent Rutgers has on the roster now compared to it’s B1G opponents, our frustrations are being taken out on him and that’s not right ( in my opinion)
Freeman shouldn’t be considered a top recruit but the bridge needed ( at the time he was recruited) to help the roster be more competitive as better talent was recruited.
Under Jordan that wasn’t possible, but I think many of us are expecting more out of Freeman, under Pike, than we can expect from someone recruited to fill a need by Jordan , but really doesn’t have the type of talent to excel on a constant bases.
Deshawn on a better team wouldn’t be expected to do what RU fans expect them to, but with the lack of talent Rutgers has on the roster now compared to it’s B1G opponents, our frustrations are being taken out on him and that’s not right ( in my opinion)
Wide open 3s should be hit at a high rate. I can’t conclude off of 24 3 attempts he can’t knock down 30+% wide open 3s.
Coaching staff should know best.
No one was upset he took the shot against Illinois last year.
I could be wrong here
Coaching staff should know best.
No one was upset he took the shot against Illinois last year.
I could be wrong here
Freeman was a coveted JuCo recruit with offers from Tennessee and Arizona State among others. He is missing easy shots, forces too much and does not pass the ball often enough. He has about a dozen games to turn those things around before he moves on front Rutgers. He clearly wants to carve out a pro career for himself, but like many Rutgers seniors before him I think he is wilting a bit under the pressure he's placed on himself.
Pikiell has said time and time again that he finds it extremely disappointing and counterproductive to what he and his staff are trying to do when the fans attack players on these boards, as they all read them. Maybe some of you tough guys would like to meet up with Deshawn and tell him to his face that he's a "net negative." We should RESPECT Pikiell and the job he's trying to do and stop these ridiculous personal attacks on guys who are working their butts off for Rutgers. Besides that, Freeman has been sick with the flu - during the Wisconsin game he had to be attended to for shortness of breath and he was still sick during the MSU game. Pretty clear he played his heart out in that game and maybe feeling the effects last night.
Yea he is...brain fart on me. But the point still stands, nobody has any idea how someone's game is going to translate until they throw an RU uniform on and play against BIG10 teams.
Freeman, the kid many in this thread are bashing, was also a pretty highly touted JUCO transfer.
I'm not sure of the point of this thread. Freeman certainly had a bad game vs OSU, but I'm not sure if there is any purpose in piling on and bashing him.
We're gonna be "so much better" because the team is going to have more talent on the roster, to begin with, and the kids are all going to have another year of experience under their belts. I completely agree.
SK.com roster lists Freeman at 6-7, 227 and Omoruyi at 6-7 234, so he's not really smaller. He's also been getting more minutes at the 4 than the 3, overall.
I still want a legit 4* PG to replace Corey (I believe this will be his last year at RU). Anyone know who we are looking at as possible juco PGs?
This is the tricky one. I kind of alluded to this issue before.
Not his black or white because the issue is gray....
Pikiell has 2 choices.
1. Crackdown on Freeman. Tell him no 3 pointers. Be upset when he doesn't pass out of a double or triple team. Get on him when he has possessions where he doesn't compete defensively. Yank his starting job when appropriate
2. Let Freeman be Freeman. Occassionaly sit him when necessary. Treat him like a senior captain and give him rope.
Problem with Option 1 is you run the risk of losing him. I am not certain if he hasn't lost Freeman already.
I would definitely go with Option 1 (except for the "no" three pointers; I'm with "few" and not early in the shot clock). Starting job is less important than minutes, and Eugene is the future. "Risk of losing him" may mean one less win this year.
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