Game 15 Hartford: Same Old Rutgers

[bac2therac]

There I said it because until Rutgers show as a program that they are doing something different or headed somewhere different, they are Same Old Rutgers. Now Bac calm down you don't mean that you are just emotional after a horrific loss. Yes in some aspects Pike has moved the program forward beyond the stench of Rice and Jordan but the harsh reality is that in terms of wins/losses and expectations, Rutgers is still the favorite for the Big 10 basement this year. When a team follows up a huge win over a ranked team in Seton Hall with two horrific losses to low majors at home then yes the Same Old Rutgers label still applies.

Two big cliches we hear is "they would have lost this game last year"...well they actually won it last year in a dogfight...and "they will learn from this loss(Stony Brook)"...no they didnt they played exactly the same. Remember LeBonnaBing or losing back to back to Drexel and William and Mary. Well welcome to StonyHart. Two losses that certainly rival those losses and may be worse given the level of opponent. Lets stop with the Stony Brook/Hartford are pretty good talk..they were only good because RU let them be good. When you allow low majors to walk on to your home court and play them evenly and then when given a chance to put them away you allow them back in, you deserve to lose. RU deserved to lose these last two games...outplayed, outhustled, outcoached. Its as if this was just a continuation of the Stony Brook game with just a different opponent. Almost the same exact game where RU continually shot themselves in the foot, bricked shots, bricked foul shots and when you allow a low major team to stay in the game to the last few possessions, you get what you deserve.

I blame the coaches. I blame the players. These two games are inexcusable from both. To actually approach the game with the same mindset that lost you the last game is mind boggling. How..how? Thats on coaches, thats on players. You know why I absolutely hated playing all 13 conference games at home...why? because I felt the team would develop bad habits while not challenging themselves and thats exactly where we got the last two games. Those bad habits, those 5-10 minutes of poor play earlier in the season came back to haunt them. The SHU win may turn out to be a negative. This team developed an inflated ego and felt that all they had to do is step on the court. They lacked hunger, they went through the motions, they lacked purpose. Perhaps more road games or some tougher home games might have set this teams mindset on a different road. What is stunning is how bad fundamentally this team looked the past two games, it doesn't look well coached..that after looking extremely well coached the past few weeks. They cannot run a proper break, they cannot make a layup, they cannot hit foulshots, they cannot rebound, they do not move in their offensive sets. Just a breakdown from coach to players.

That last play with 14 seconds..what was that...for a team that has trouble executing, waaaaaaaay too much dribbling away from the basket...wtf was Pike calling there. It looked doom from the start. Would rather attack the hoop then fumble away and not even take a shot...poor job there but the game was lost way before that.

No I dont have a problem with Pike sitting Corey. Have to show discipline, that wasnt the first time, the team had many opportunities to win the game. Went up 27-20 and Freeman throws up a stupid 3 and from there it was a game...that after a 19-4 RU run which made it look like RU would take this one easy.

So yeah its all about negativity tonight because it should be. Save the excuses and sugarcoating. This team just suffered two back to back home losses that rival what Jordan and Hill did..that is not fake news. What does that mean? Well who knows, right now we are a bad team that cannot shoot and runs horrible offensive sets. I do know this team will lose ugly at Purdue and Michigan State and Wisconsin at home almost becomes a must win or do you really feel confident in this team overcoming a 0-5 league start. Confidence has dropped on whether this team can get to 6-12 and finish over 500. I think there is a shot but considering the program is 6-48 in league games over the past 3 years, that clearly will require the program shedding the Same Old Rutgers label. I get tired of posting that this team needs to play a full 40 minutes to win games and the small margin of error. I unfortunately didnt think it applied to the cupcake games but here we are. If they can whether the storm the next two weeks and go back to basics of hard work then maybe things will uptick again

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

You could have stopped at SOR but the rest was beautiful.

Sick of this craps. I really am. Year after year after year after....

 

[RU_DIO]

Second game in a row out rebounded by an inferior opponent. Not acceptable.

 

[bac2therac]

You could have stopped at SOR but the rest was beautiful.

Sick of this craps. I really am. Year after year after year after....

lol yeah but I had to unload it all out....it may have been better to not beat SHU and just win these two games by 15, I would have preferred that. At least now I have zero expectations the rest of the year and my Kool Aid thrown out, its now about focusing on the young players and phasing out the old ones

 

[BOGDANOVICH]

Given the remarkable, inexplicable collapse the last two games, you have to wonder about the emotional mindset of this team.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

There I said it because until Rutgers show as a program that they are doing something different or headed somewhere different, they are Same Old Rutgers. Now Bac calm down you don't mean that you are just emotional after a horrific loss. Yes in some aspects Pike has moved the program forward beyond the stench of Rice and Jordan but the harsh reality is that in terms of wins/losses and expectations, Rutgers is still the favorite for the Big 10 basement this year. When a team follows up a huge win over a ranked team in Seton Hall with two horrific losses to low majors at home then yes the Same Old Rutgers label still applies.

Two big cliches we hear is "they would have lost this game last year"...well they actually won it last year in a dogfight...and "they will learn from this loss(Stony Brook)"...no they didnt they played exactly the same. Remember LeBonnaBing or losing back to back to Drexel and William and Mary. Well welcome to StonyHart. Two losses that certainly rival those losses and may be worse given the level of opponent. Lets stop with the Stony Brook/Hartford are pretty good talk..they were only good because RU let them be good. When you allow low majors to walk on to your home court and play them evenly and then when given a chance to put them away you allow them back in, you deserve to lose. RU deserved to lose these last two games...outplayed, outhustled, outcoached. Its as if this was just a continuation of the Stony Brook game with just a different opponent. Almost the same exact game where RU continually shot themselves in the foot, bricked shots, bricked foul shots and when you allow a low major team to stay in the game to the last few possessions, you get what you deserve.

I blame the coaches. I blame the players. These two games are inexcusable from both. To actually approach the game with the same mindset that lost you the last game is mind boggling. How..how? Thats on coaches, thats on players. You know why I absolutely hated playing all 13 conference games at home...why? because I felt the team would develop bad habits while not challenging themselves and thats exactly where we got the last two games. Those bad habits, those 5-10 minutes of poor play earlier in the season came back to haunt them. The SHU win may turn out to be a negative. This team developed an inflated ego and felt that all they had to do is step on the court. They lacked hunger, they went through the motions, they lacked purpose. Perhaps more road games or some tougher home games might have set this teams mindset on a different road. What is stunning is how bad fundamentally this team looked the past two games, it doesn't look well coached..that after looking extremely well coached the past few weeks. They cannot run a proper break, they cannot make a layup, they cannot hit foulshots, they cannot rebound, they do not move in their offensive sets. Just a breakdown from coach to players.

That last play with 14 seconds..what was that...for a team that has trouble executing, waaaaaaaay too much dribbling away from the basket...wtf was Pike calling there. It looked doom from the start. Would rather attack the hoop then fumble away and not even take a shot...poor job there but the game was lost way before that.

No I dont have a problem with Pike sitting Corey. Have to show discipline, that wasnt the first time, the team had many opportunities to win the game. Went up 27-20 and Freeman throws up a stupid 3 and from there it was a game...that after a 19-4 RU run which made it look like RU would take this one easy.

So yeah its all about negativity tonight because it should be. Save the excuses and sugarcoating. This team just suffered two back to back home losses that rival what Jordan and Hill did..that is not fake news. What does that mean? Well who knows, right now we are a bad team that cannot shoot and runs horrible offensive sets. I do know this team will lose ugly at Purdue and Michigan State and Wisconsin at home almost becomes a must win or do you really feel confident in this team overcoming a 0-5 league start. Confidence has dropped on whether this team can get to 6-12 and finish over 500. I think there is a shot but considering the program is 6-48 in league games over the past 3 years, that clearly will require the program shedding the Same Old Rutgers label. I get tired of posting that this team needs to play a full 40 minutes to win games and the small margin of error. I unfortunately didnt think it applied to the cupcake games but here we are. If they can whether the storm the next two weeks and go back to basics of hard work then maybe things will uptick again

Couldn't agree more about the ridiculous non-conference creampuff all home schedule. No doubt in my mind that we have developed bad habits playing this schedule.

 

[bac2therac]

Couldn't agree more about the ridiculous non-conference creampuff all home schedule. No doubt in my mind that we have developed bad habits playing this schedule.

and I know I took criticism for saying it before because people said this team needs wins and to finish above 500..well listen they just lost two games...and at the end of the non conference schedule no less. RU did well in the step up in competition vs MSU, FSU and SHU for sure...at Minnesota less so, they didnt handle adversity so well..now the next road game is Purdue and then at Mich State...there is potential for ugliness. Going on the road earlier may have given this team some motivation rather than to stroll into the RAC and act like they should win just because they are in the Big 10

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Cmon bac....I really expected better of you....I sense a frustration or a sense of entitlement because of raised expectations....

I will disagree across the board because this team plays to the level of its opponent AND that makes for us looking and feeling like every other B1G team.....Penn State wins at Iowa and almost steals a game vs Wisconsin at home and loses by 1.....then PSU blows a game to Rider at the buzzer last week....This on top of the PSU roller coaster last year....hammering RU on New Years Day, then losing to RU at home after a double OT game at Indiana 2 nights before hosting RU.

I'm mentioning PSU because they also upset Michigan State at the Palestra last year and are going through the process RU is going to experience the next 2 seasons.....There is no "straight through path", without turbulence, without signs of live and then significant times where a team looks lost.

The one thing that fans tend to do is live in a vacuum, or no one seems to follow how all the rest of the B1G teams are doing.

I could nitpick and blame Corey Sanders for being late to arrive back from home and if he started, RU likely wins....I could blame lack of intensity (not true) or a rash of turnovers (only 6).....I would say a team that normally shoots 80% from the FT line, shoots under 50%, but RU doesn't shoot 80% from the line.

RU is going through the growth spurt/process and we can discuss whether the schedule makes sense, but for the growth of the fan base being brought back, more wins helps BUT lack of a close game really caught up to this roster the last 3 games.

I would actually like to see this happen now, because this 16 game run is going to have more ups and downs and more signals that we are getting better, followed by 3-4 games where RU looks lost. It is part of the process.....and next year will have these peaks and valleys with a lot of freshman and new parts as well.

There is no Same Ole Rutgers in the big picture....same ole RU would not have closed Montez Mathis, Shaq Carter, Harper Jr and would not working hard for 2018 and 2019 pieces that are true difference makers. Doucoure and Baker are solid building blocks that are going to be inconsistent as freshman.....The program is 2 years away depth, skill and talent wise from being stable and a normal B1G program.

We have to go through this process, but a true rebuild isn't for the faint of heart or can't be based on strictly results....results happen in recruiting, mixed with progress on the court. I would feel more skeptical if Florida State beat RU by 12 and Michigan State by 18 with a loss to Seton Hall, vs beating Stony Brook and Hartford....There would be many more questions about what RU is going to be, if that was the case.

Stay the course.....30+ games, recruiting, develop and grow, rinse and repeat....the ceiling is 6 B1G wins (best case scenario and requires the RAC to be alive). The Seton Hall win, the Florida State/Michigan State games were the signs that we are on the way....don't waver because of 2 OOC losses....

 

[Phil da Thrill]

Well said bac!

 

[RU-ROCS]

Second game in a row out rebounded by an inferior opponent. Not acceptable.

That is a very telling stat - all about effort and desire. This team will never shoot well, so they cannot afford to get beat on the boards by an inferior (at least on paper) opponent.

 

[RUJMM78]

There I said it because until Rutgers show as a program that they are doing something different or headed somewhere different, they are Same Old Rutgers. Now Bac calm down you don't mean that you are just emotional after a horrific loss. Yes in some aspects Pike has moved the program forward beyond the stench of Rice and Jordan but the harsh reality is that in terms of wins/losses and expectations, Rutgers is still the favorite for the Big 10 basement this year. When a team follows up a huge win over a ranked team in Seton Hall with two horrific losses to low majors at home then yes the Same Old Rutgers label still applies.

Two big cliches we hear is "they would have lost this game last year"...well they actually won it last year in a dogfight...and "they will learn from this loss(Stony Brook)"...no they didnt they played exactly the same. Remember LeBonnaBing or losing back to back to Drexel and William and Mary. Well welcome to StonyHart. Two losses that certainly rival those losses and may be worse given the level of opponent. Lets stop with the Stony Brook/Hartford are pretty good talk..they were only good because RU let them be good. When you allow low majors to walk on to your home court and play them evenly and then when given a chance to put them away you allow them back in, you deserve to lose. RU deserved to lose these last two games...outplayed, outhustled, outcoached. Its as if this was just a continuation of the Stony Brook game with just a different opponent. Almost the same exact game where RU continually shot themselves in the foot, bricked shots, bricked foul shots and when you allow a low major team to stay in the game to the last few possessions, you get what you deserve.

I blame the coaches. I blame the players. These two games are inexcusable from both. To actually approach the game with the same mindset that lost you the last game is mind boggling. How..how? Thats on coaches, thats on players. You know why I absolutely hated playing all 13 conference games at home...why? because I felt the team would develop bad habits while not challenging themselves and thats exactly where we got the last two games. Those bad habits, those 5-10 minutes of poor play earlier in the season came back to haunt them. The SHU win may turn out to be a negative. This team developed an inflated ego and felt that all they had to do is step on the court. They lacked hunger, they went through the motions, they lacked purpose. Perhaps more road games or some tougher home games might have set this teams mindset on a different road. What is stunning is how bad fundamentally this team looked the past two games, it doesn't look well coached..that after looking extremely well coached the past few weeks. They cannot run a proper break, they cannot make a layup, they cannot hit foulshots, they cannot rebound, they do not move in their offensive sets. Just a breakdown from coach to players.

That last play with 14 seconds..what was that...for a team that has trouble executing, waaaaaaaay too much dribbling away from the basket...wtf was Pike calling there. It looked doom from the start. Would rather attack the hoop then fumble away and not even take a shot...poor job there but the game was lost way before that.

No I dont have a problem with Pike sitting Corey. Have to show discipline, that wasnt the first time, the team had many opportunities to win the game. Went up 27-20 and Freeman throws up a stupid 3 and from there it was a game...that after a 19-4 RU run which made it look like RU would take this one easy.

So yeah its all about negativity tonight because it should be. Save the excuses and sugarcoating. This team just suffered two back to back home losses that rival what Jordan and Hill did..that is not fake news. What does that mean? Well who knows, right now we are a bad team that cannot shoot and runs horrible offensive sets. I do know this team will lose ugly at Purdue and Michigan State and Wisconsin at home almost becomes a must win or do you really feel confident in this team overcoming a 0-5 league start. Confidence has dropped on whether this team can get to 6-12 and finish over 500. I think there is a shot but considering the program is 6-48 in league games over the past 3 years, that clearly will require the program shedding the Same Old Rutgers label. I get tired of posting that this team needs to play a full 40 minutes to win games and the small margin of error. I unfortunately didnt think it applied to the cupcake games but here we are. If they can whether the storm the next two weeks and go back to basics of hard work then maybe things will uptick again

BAC- excellent recap because it summarizes succinctly the feelings of season ticket holders who have seen this same nonsense for decades.What fans should know by now is that changing coaches is easy but attracting players that can shoot has been a utter nightmare at Rutgers.I like Pikiell because he understands what is needed and has a coaching staff that gives Rutgers a fighting chance for future success.In the interim,however,there will be great disappointment if Rutgers fails to have a winning season with such a easy out of conference schedule.Losing to Stony Brook and Hartford at home could be the two games that makes the difference in achieving a winning season.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Cmon bac....I really expected better of you....I sense a frustration or a sense of entitlement because of raised expectations....

I will disagree across the board because this team plays to the level of its opponent AND that makes for us looking and feeling like every other B1G team.....Penn State wins at Iowa and almost steals a game vs Wisconsin at home and loses by 1.....then PSU blows a game to Rider at the buzzer last week....This on top of the PSU roller coaster last year....hammering RU on New Years Day, then losing to RU at home after a double OT game at Indiana 2 nights before hosting RU.

I'm mentioning PSU because they also upset Michigan State at the Palestra last year and are going through the process RU is going to experience the next 2 seasons.....There is no "straight through path", without turbulence, without signs of live and then significant times where a team looks lost.

The one thing that fans tend to do is live in a vacuum, or no one seems to follow how all the rest of the B1G teams are doing.

I could nitpick and blame Corey Sanders for being late to arrive back from home and if he started, RU likely wins....I could blame lack of intensity (not true) or a rash of turnovers (only 6).....I would say a team that normally shoots 80% from the FT line, shoots under 50%, but RU doesn't shoot 80% from the line.

RU is going through the growth spurt/process and we can discuss whether the schedule makes sense, but for the growth of the fan base being brought back, more wins helps BUT lack of a close game really caught up to this roster the last 3 games.

I would actually like to see this happen now, because this 16 game run is going to have more ups and downs and more signals that we are getting better, followed by 3-4 games where RU looks lost. It is part of the process.....and next year will have these peaks and valleys with a lot of freshman and new parts as well.

There is no Same Ole Rutgers in the big picture....same ole RU would not have closed Montez Mathis, Shaq Carter, Harper Jr and would not working hard for 2018 and 2019 pieces that are true difference makers. Doucoure and Baker are solid building blocks that are going to be inconsistent as freshman.....The program is 2 years away depth, skill and talent wise from being stable and a normal B1G program.

We have to go through this process, but a true rebuild isn't for the faint of heart or can't be based on strictly results....results happen in recruiting, mixed with progress on the court. I would feel more skeptical if Florida State beat RU by 12 and Michigan State by 18 with a loss to Seton Hall, vs beating Stony Brook and Hartford....There would be many more questions about what RU is going to be, if that was the case.

Stay the course.....30+ games, recruiting, develop and grow, rinse and repeat....the ceiling is 6 B1G wins (best case scenario and requires the RAC to be alive). The Seton Hall win, the Florida State/Michigan State games were the signs that we are on the way....don't waver because of 2 OOC losses....

So many things to disagree with in your post but one stands out. Regarding Pikiell's recruiting, it hasn't been nearly as good as the early hauls of Kevin Bannon, Mike Rice, or Fred Hill. That's truth. Montez Mathis seems like a solid pickup, not sure anyone has really seen Shaq Mason but optimistic that he'll immediately fill the power forward void but Harper is nothing more than a project/flyer right now. Mensah, Bullock, Sa, et. al. That's a lot of nothing and they are taking up valuable roster spots. I'm going to say that Pikiell may be a much better actual coach than a lot of his predecessors but he needs to do much better in recruiting and one solid player a class is not going to be enough. We all hope Baker is a keeper notwithstanding tonight's disappearing act but the other players in what was Pikiell's first true recruiting class are Mensah, Johnson who is redshirting because he's not in a position to outperform Shaq Doorson and Candido Sa, Kiss who is coming in from a low-major program and late arriving Doucoure who looks like he has tremendous potential but is quite a ways off from realizing it at this point. That's over 1/3 of the roster. Needs to be much better. We are in the Big Ten Conference.

 

[RUJMM78]

That is a very telling stat - all about effort and desire. This team will never shoot well, so they cannot afford to get beat on the boards by an inferior (at least on paper) opponent.

A more telling stat was that Hartford had far more turnovers compared to Rutgers and still won the game because they had a pulse on offense.

 

[bac2therac]

Rider beat Hartford by 30!

you are excusing losing to two BAD teams...consecutively...yes it matters it matters alot, its the way the games were played too. Listen Penn State is Penn State, they are not getting it done either. I do not think this is a NCAA team but these two losses have seriously put in jeopardy finishing over 500. Would you say that finishing 15-16 would be disappointing to you given such an easy OOC schedule...yeah these two games are a big difference. Tough to have confidence in a team winning many games when they only won 3 last year that by one point each and they just lost to two low majors

long term I am not down on Pike but short term this particular team is in trouble...Pike needs to land a big class for 2019 which means RU needs to do as well as possible this year. So if RU was 12-3 right now as opposed to 10-5 you cannot deny that perception bounce, well now we are not getting it..plus we see how limited this team really is.

I know this team will play to the level of competition in the Big 10..it did last year too, I expect it to, but that does not translate to wins, we saw that last year. They can win 6 but will they? I see FSU/MSU/SHU games as fools gold, alot of masking, great job by Pike and it worked but reality is we are not very good

RU is Same Old Rutgers until they actually do something different,. Pike has some recruits in the fold but listen Rice and Hill also had recruits in the fold. Yes I believe he is better positioned and suited than those two but its apparent that time for RU to be considered legit is still more than 2 years off and possible 3. The reality check has been handed to the fanbase of how far we need to go...which includes a serious roster purge turnover and the continued strong recruiting by Pike.

I have no problem being negative after these last two games because its a reflection of what I saw. No excuse. It was on players and coaches. RU was outplayed and outcoached by Hartford and Stony Brook. Plain and simple, you cannot spin that away. For long suffering fans we have seen this movie before..wake me up in 2-3 years because thats when things might be better.

 

[bac2therac]

A more telling stat was that Hartford had far more turnovers compared to Rutgers and still won the game because they had a pulse on offense.

this is an important stat because it shows how inept we were at running transition or any semblence of offense. So many missed opportunities...and this is Hartford, it aint Illinois, it aint Rider for that matter

 

[knights1212]

Bac, I think you said it well. There should be absolutely no excuse for losing these last two games. These will very possibly cause us to have another losing season. Us forever fans deserve better.

 

[bac2therac]

So many things to disagree with in your post but one stands out. Regarding Pikiell's recruiting, it hasn't been nearly as good as the early hauls of Kevin Bannon, Mike Rice, or Fred Hill. That's truth. Montez Mathis seems like a solid pickup, not sure anyone has really seen Shaq Mason but optimistic that he'll immediately fill the power forward void but Harper is nothing more than a project/flyer right now. Mensah, Bullock, Sa, et. al. That's a lot of nothing and they are taking up valuable roster spots. I'm going to say that Pikiell may be a much better actual coach than a lot of his predecessors but he needs to do much better in recruiting and one solid player a class is not going to be enough. We all hope Baker is a keeper notwithstanding tonight's disappearing act but the other players in what was Pikiell's first true recruiting class are Mensah, Johnson who is redshirting because he's not in a position to outperform Shaq Doorson and Candido Sa, and Kiss who is coming in from a low-major program. That's 1/3 of the roster. Needs to be much better. We are in the Big Ten Conference.

I worry about Johnson being at the level needed because lets be honest...how hard is it to find minutes vs Doorson/Sa. Mensah a total whiff. Next year RU will be very young...some complimentary players and some freshmen, a year to take some lumps.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

I worry about Johnson being at the level needed because lets be honest...how hard is it to find minutes vs Doorson/Sa. Mensah a total whiff. Next year RU will be very young...some complimentary players and some freshmen, a year to take some lumps.

And a coach's third year is not a great time to take lumps and start from scratch. I'm even more worried about the prospect of Corey leaving and having a really thin and inexperienced backcourt. Mathis, Geo, Mensah, and some Spring signee leftover? Don't want to think about that.

 

[RU-ROCS]

A more telling stat was that Hartford had far more turnovers compared to Rutgers and still won the game because they had a pulse on offense.

And, for once they hit FTs - and they are an awful FT shooting team.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Why we lost:

- Hartford wanted the game more - MUCH more. They were determined after last years' loss. Dunne and the PG Lynch especially.
- This team does not know how to rebound. Thus many second chance points again.
- Where are thou?...Eugene; Geo (his legs must be toast); Mamadou...all 3 were ineptly ineffective
- Stupid stupid shot selections and it's getting very frustrating. Freeman hoisting long jumpers; Sa the same; team settling for jumpers.
- Not stopping Hartford late in the game with an inbound pass with 2 secs left and Carroll hit a jumper.
- Coaching Staff not having team motivated.

I think the team won its Super Bowl against Seton Hall and it's walking thru the last 2 games in a trance thinking it's an automatic win.

What I'd like to see:

- More Mamadou defensively as he's an upgrade over Sa and Doorson.
- Penetrate more inside as Corey; Williams and Freeman are effective this way but they love the jumpers instead.
- More Thiam
- Corey and Mike Williams need to crash the boards more because they're the only ones who can rebound with vigor

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

A winning season with this schedule will be earned through the conference games...the progress is made in league games where we are undermanned, just like last year...the goals are to get Doucoure and Baker some value added experience.

If you win 3 league games and finished 16-15, would you feel a sense of relief or would you feel better with 16-15 & getting quality wins and learning how to play with freshman etc with 4-6 B1G wins??

The folks that are looking big picture are going to withhold judgement until the entire work is done...beating Hartford and Stony Brook requires better FT shooting but so does winning and learning how to perform in close games....RU has not had much of them and the schedule is tougher next year...so if you have a winning season and soft slate this year and have a losing season with tougher schedule next year, is that progress or is that still wait and see??

I'm not sure what fans expected with really 6 players right now...2 freshmen 2 senior starters a wild card in Sanders and a developmental project or two in Thiam and Eugene??

We are fine...sorry that we lost but 16 regular season and MSG with 20 B1G games next year is how you judge and grow the program...can we close the gaps in next two years and pick up some steps forward...

 

[S_Janowski]

A winning season with this schedule will be earned through the conference games...the progress is made in league games where we are undermanned, just like last year...the goals are to get Doucoure and Baker some value added experience.

If you win 3 league games and finished 16-15, would you feel a sense of relief or would you feel better with 16-15 & getting quality wins and learning how to play with freshman etc with 4-6 B1G wins??

The folks that are looking big picture are going to withhold judgement until the entire work is done...beating Hartford and Stony Brook requires better FT shooting but so does winning and learning how to perform in close games....RU has not had much of them and the schedule is tougher next year...so if you have a winning season and soft slate this year and have a losing season with tougher schedule next year, is that progress or is that still wait and see??

I'm not sure what fans expected with really 6 players right now...2 freshmen 2 senior starters a wild card in Sanders and a developmental project or two in Thiam and Eugene??

We are fine...sorry that we lost but 16 regular season and MSG with 20 B1G games next year is how you judge and grow the program...can we close the gaps in next two years and pick up some steps forward...

Really not sure what you are trying to say in these two long winded posts.

We shouldn't make any judgements off these past 2 games?

Bacs post was spot on.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

I'm not sure what fans expected with really 6 players right now...2 freshmen 2 senior starters a wild card in Sanders and a developmental project or two in Thiam and Eugene??

Fans expected to not lose to Stony Brook and Hartford at home, consecutively. Some other Big Picture fans realize that to create and maintain a narrative with media, fans, and most importantly recruits that you are changing the culture and progressing, you need to win games. Bad losses to teams like these hurts your credibility. It is isn't going to get any easier now.

 

[bac2therac]

A winning season with this schedule will be earned through the conference games...the progress is made in league games where we are undermanned, just like last year...the goals are to get Doucoure and Baker some value added experience.

If you win 3 league games and finished 16-15, would you feel a sense of relief or would you feel better with 16-15 & getting quality wins and learning how to play with freshman etc with 4-6 B1G wins??

The folks that are looking big picture are going to withhold judgement until the entire work is done...beating Hartford and Stony Brook requires better FT shooting but so does winning and learning how to perform in close games....RU has not had much of them and the schedule is tougher next year...so if you have a winning season and soft slate this year and have a losing season with tougher schedule next year, is that progress or is that still wait and see??

I'm not sure what fans expected with really 6 players right now...2 freshmen 2 senior starters a wild card in Sanders and a developmental project or two in Thiam and Eugene??

We are fine...sorry that we lost but 16 regular season and MSG with 20 B1G games next year is how you judge and grow the program...can we close the gaps in next two years and pick up some steps forward...

if RU cannot beat Hartford following up a WTF loss vs Stony Brook that most could forgive as a one off how does anyone have confidence in winning 6 league games...with a limited team who cannot shoot or make free throws...margins of errors just got slimmer. The schedule was made to go 11-2 OOC and we went 10-3 while trending downward not upward

 

[RUChow]

There I said it because until Rutgers show as a program that they are doing something different or headed somewhere different, they are Same Old Rutgers. Now Bac calm down you don't mean that you are just emotional after a horrific loss. Yes in some aspects Pike has moved the program forward beyond the stench of Rice and Jordan but the harsh reality is that in terms of wins/losses and expectations, Rutgers is still the favorite for the Big 10 basement this year. When a team follows up a huge win over a ranked team in Seton Hall with two horrific losses to low majors at home then yes the Same Old Rutgers label still applies.

Two big cliches we hear is "they would have lost this game last year"...well they actually won it last year in a dogfight...and "they will learn from this loss(Stony Brook)"...no they didnt they played exactly the same. Remember LeBonnaBing or losing back to back to Drexel and William and Mary. Well welcome to StonyHart. Two losses that certainly rival those losses and may be worse given the level of opponent. Lets stop with the Stony Brook/Hartford are pretty good talk..they were only good because RU let them be good. When you allow low majors to walk on to your home court and play them evenly and then when given a chance to put them away you allow them back in, you deserve to lose. RU deserved to lose these last two games...outplayed, outhustled, outcoached. Its as if this was just a continuation of the Stony Brook game with just a different opponent. Almost the same exact game where RU continually shot themselves in the foot, bricked shots, bricked foul shots and when you allow a low major team to stay in the game to the last few possessions, you get what you deserve.

I blame the coaches. I blame the players. These two games are inexcusable from both. To actually approach the game with the same mindset that lost you the last game is mind boggling. How..how? Thats on coaches, thats on players. You know why I absolutely hated playing all 13 conference games at home...why? because I felt the team would develop bad habits while not challenging themselves and thats exactly where we got the last two games. Those bad habits, those 5-10 minutes of poor play earlier in the season came back to haunt them. The SHU win may turn out to be a negative. This team developed an inflated ego and felt that all they had to do is step on the court. They lacked hunger, they went through the motions, they lacked purpose. Perhaps more road games or some tougher home games might have set this teams mindset on a different road. What is stunning is how bad fundamentally this team looked the past two games, it doesn't look well coached..that after looking extremely well coached the past few weeks. They cannot run a proper break, they cannot make a layup, they cannot hit foulshots, they cannot rebound, they do not move in their offensive sets. Just a breakdown from coach to players.

That last play with 14 seconds..what was that...for a team that has trouble executing, waaaaaaaay too much dribbling away from the basket...wtf was Pike calling there. It looked doom from the start. Would rather attack the hoop then fumble away and not even take a shot...poor job there but the game was lost way before that.

No I dont have a problem with Pike sitting Corey. Have to show discipline, that wasnt the first time, the team had many opportunities to win the game. Went up 27-20 and Freeman throws up a stupid 3 and from there it was a game...that after a 19-4 RU run which made it look like RU would take this one easy.

So yeah its all about negativity tonight because it should be. Save the excuses and sugarcoating. This team just suffered two back to back home losses that rival what Jordan and Hill did..that is not fake news. What does that mean? Well who knows, right now we are a bad team that cannot shoot and runs horrible offensive sets. I do know this team will lose ugly at Purdue and Michigan State and Wisconsin at home almost becomes a must win or do you really feel confident in this team overcoming a 0-5 league start. Confidence has dropped on whether this team can get to 6-12 and finish over 500. I think there is a shot but considering the program is 6-48 in league games over the past 3 years, that clearly will require the program shedding the Same Old Rutgers label. I get tired of posting that this team needs to play a full 40 minutes to win games and the small margin of error. I unfortunately didnt think it applied to the cupcake games but here we are. If they can whether the storm the next two weeks and go back to basics of hard work then maybe things will uptick again

Everything you said is spot on. And for God's sake Pikiel has got to tell Freeman that the three point shot is off limits for him. Freeman is too big a part of the offense and Geo's part isn't near big enough.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We are not fine

1. Team is up 2 at half and the team in warmups act like they are up 30.
2. Coach can't get through to Freeman. I think he is scared of disciplining him. Freeman's defense this year has been off the charts bad
3. How can you be stymied bumpy the 1-3-1
4. Out of the timeout how did u not know the 1-3-1 was coming
5. You get a life and a chance and get a free inbound with 1.6 seconds. You freeze and with 2 minutes time can't come up with anything
6. You know your team is flat and you know they have 1 ball handler. Can't you press or play full court man
7. How can you honestly look at Souf and offer him a valuable scholarship. His lateral quickness is stunningly bad.
8. Why is Freeman not on the low blocks and is always touching the ball 20 feet from the hoop
9. Why is Baker already shot and Mike Williams averages 24ish minutes a game. To play 10 cupcakes and 4 real teams and have Baker have no legs?
10. Offense just so bad and that has to be a lot on coaches.

I am sorry, but u can chose to ignore warning signs. We don't have good young talent on this team and the coach is a big question mark.

 

[newwavedave1]

I was really beginning to believe after the Seton Hall game. Should know better after all these years. :weary:

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

NJH,

Our nucleus right now is 3 seniors. there is what our eyes want to see vs reality.

 

[Joey Bacala]

BAC is 100% right. Us long timers can say nothing except SOR.

Agree with most of points in this thread, and would add that the rotations are baffling. OK Corey can't follow a plane schedule second year in a row, so you start Souf instead of Mike? Seriously? Souf's ass should be glued to the bench. Then when it counts Duke and Issa on the bench in 2nd half for a long time. Get Duke in there so he can develop, plus he's got a nice little foul line jumper that might come in handy. And Issa is the best 3pt option, and is scrappy on D. And Freeman, who flashes skill at times, is the softest player I've ever seen. I feel like I've seen him miss 100 chippies since he's arrived, and he pads his rebound stats by needing 2 or 3 chances to put a layup in - many rebounds are off his own missed layups!! Add in his defense on the Irish kid and he totally shit the bed tonight. Also, against Delgado in the SHU game we muscled up and really laid bodies on him/fronted him to keep him away from the basket, while in the last two games far inferior competition has backed our bigs down easily.

Incredibly disappointing, especially when we saw what could be in the SHU game.

Wake up men.

 

[John Otterstedt]

And a coach's third year is not a great time to take lumps and start from scratch. I'm even more worried about the prospect of Corey leaving and having a really thin and inexperienced backcourt. Mathis, Geo, Mensah, and some Spring signee leftover? Don't want to think about that.

You are forgetting the transfer, Peter Kiss. I like his tape from his freshman year. You are also forgetting Ron Harper Junior, whose tape I have more questions about, but is still another guard. There are more options than you stated.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I don't see much difference between games 1 through today in the OOCgames not named Florida State and SetonHall

There have been games where Mike Williams was off and Baker made shots...then Baker wasn't hitting and Corey made shots...and there were 22 point leads vs Fordham that went to 11 and people kinda ignored the signs because they finished as wins.

I don't think there is much wiggle room when you have 3 guards asked to score 40-50 points unless Freeman scores 12-15....Eugene is not a pure scorer and gets points on energy and putbacks...if he does those things and misses a lot of FTsit negates the contributions of earning 2nd shots....Sa and Shaq are complimentary pieces.

I think the effort has not been as much as the 2 B1G games, FSU and SHU...how that shows up in the rest of the B1G schedule is what I like to see but to say there weren't long stretches of blah play that got covered because a couple of 3s or FTswere made in other games is what I see....SHUwas just more frenetic energy with more shots made and still was 35% from the field and 12 missed.FTs....there will be games we hit shots and make FTs and RU will be in a game or two no one expects and it will benchmarked.

This is what every team gets in a rebuild, it's just not paid attention to elsewhere when it happens to another school.

 

[78CollegeAve]

You are forgetting the transfer, Peter Kiss. I like his tape from his freshman year. You are also forgetting Ron Harper Junior, whose tape I have more questions about, but is still another guard. There are more options than you stated.

Harper, Jr.? Wow, don’t know how anyone can trust the staff’s “fillers” after Bullock and Mensah. Can’t waste a scholarship in every class in a rebuild. Just imagine if RU had even marginal mid-major talent using those free rides? You know, kids that can either shoot or at least be willing to play hard at home against the likes of SB and Hart. Two losses on the staff for its recruiting failures.

 

[TDIrish27]

Agreed

At the end of the day you have to hit shots------don't over analyze it with how to attack a zone etc.

Here's how you attack a zone-----you make them extend it by hitting shots which opens up things inside for the cutters------it isn't brain surgery.

The questioning of the coach is silly-----he knows what he's doing-----he needs better players to do it with

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

The old guard needs to exit this program. This program needs new players who know and have a hunger for winning.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The old guard needs to exit this program. This program needs new players who know and have a hunger for winning.

Convenient. Very convenient.

The reality that no one wants to believe because it hurts the narrative is the there isn't much behind "the old guard".

We lose to SB and Hartford because our starting 2,3 and 5 are no different than the starting 2,3,5 of our opponent. I hope I am being hard on Baker, but I fear I am not.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Please don't tell me last night Issa or Geo wanted it more than Mike Williams.

Mike dives on the floor, Issa has to be told to rebound or dive on the floor.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

You are forgetting the transfer, Peter Kiss. I like his tape from his freshman year. You are also forgetting Ron Harper Junior, whose tape I have more questions about, but is still another guard. There are more options than you stated.

I'm not forgetting either one. Kiss looks like a swingman / small forward to me which puts him in competition for playing time with Thiam and Harper . Certainly not someone I'm going to count on to defend Big Ten guards or be a ball handler / playmaker. I've seen Harper videos and he most definitely does not look like a guard. He's a long way off from being able to defend Big East guards or handle the ball from what I've seen and just because he hoists threes as part of his game does not make him a guard. I cannot imagine him making an immediate impact.

 

[RUich]

Simply put, until this team shows something different they are SOR material.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Agreed

At the end of the day you have to hit shots------don't over analyze it with how to attack a zone etc.

Here's how you attack a zone-----you make them extend it by hitting shots which opens up things inside for the cutters------it isn't brain surgery.

The questioning of the coach is silly-----he knows what he's doing-----he needs better players to do it with

If you can't find multiple reasons to question the coaching staff last night you just clearly don't want to.

 

[higgins3]

I'm not forgetting either one. Kiss looks like a swingman / small forward to me which puts him in competition for playing time with Thiam and Harper . Certainly not someone I'm going to count on to defend Big Ten guards or be a ball handler / playmaker. I've seen Harper videos and he most definitely does not look like a guard. He's a long way off from being able to defend Big East guards or handle the ball from what I've seen and just because he hoists threes as part of his game does not make him a guard. I cannot imagine him making an immediate impact.

Most likely Harper Jr will be a small forward here. It just fits more of his play. Peter kiss, who has no injury, will be able to replace Mike Williams in near full capacity. Williams is all heart, but does not shoot well, and has never been a passer on the offensive side. That was, and is my only quarrel with Williams in the four years he has been here. His offensive woes I could care less about.