GAME 7 Clemson: Just what we needed

RUChoppin

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If you are referring to 3 "supposedly" not in sync players on defense.....what happens if you increase Jones minutes....?? You will get double figures scoring, potentially way more threatening to the defense from perimeter and 3....

But this didn't bear out in reality. Jones had 21 minutes against Clemson, and scored 4 points on 2/9 shooting (0/4) from the perimeter. He's played 19 and 20 minutes the last two games, and is 1/9 from the arc.

Mulcahy is not close to our best on-ball defender, but he rarely blows an assignment. He is generally where he needs to be, but gets beaten by better offensive players. The knock on our newcomers is usually when they have not been where they need to be - whether that's Hyatt, Jones, or Agee. That will come with more game reps, and Jones looked better against Clemson than he has in prior games.
 

Greene Rice FIG

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The problem is that Mulcahy/McConnell are really designed to occupy the same role. Grit guy, scrapper, facilitator, ball protector, rebounder, fighting for loose balls, "do things that don't show up in the box score", occasional offense as a 4th option, etc. It's the sort of guy a lot of successful teams have on the court.

The only issue is we have two of them on the court at the same time for like 75% of the game. And if the other 3 guys out there with them aren't "on" offensively, we can get in trouble fast. You can only get assists if the other guy hits his shot.
Back of my napkin......
1- Geo Miller
2- Paul Caleb
3-Jones Hyatt Mag
4 Harper Hyatt Mag
5 Cliff ?????

Ron is our only 2 way perimeter player right now. We desperately need Geo right now.....
 

Greene Rice FIG

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But this didn't bear out in reality. Jones had 21 minutes against Clemson, and scored 4 points on 2/9 shooting (0/4) from the perimeter. He's played 19 and 20 minutes the last two games, and is 1/9 from the arc.

Mulcahy is not close to our best on-ball defender, but he rarely blows an assignment. He is generally where he needs to be, but gets beaten by better offensive players. The knock on our newcomers is usually when they have not been where they need to be - whether that's Hyatt, Jones, or Agee. That will come with more game reps, and Jones looked better against Clemson than he has in prior games.
Our best on ball defender played is Miller followed by Caleb. I have no idea who #3 is. Mag gives effort, but it might not be him.
 

RUChoppin

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Our best on ball defender played is Miller followed by Caleb. I have no idea who #3 is. Mag gives effort, but it might not be him.

But we're not playing 1v1. Having strong on-ball defense is one element, having guys who know where they need to be defensively at all times is a different skill - one that takes time to build. It'll come with more reps. Our vets have the concepts down but don't always execute as well as we'd like - the newcomers are still figuring some things out.
 

toby83

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We are going to disagree. Credit for Pike for how he has coached all season for this game. Pike isn't putting a band aid on our defensive woes. Making newcomers earn playing time with effort and D finally paid dividends.

Having said that Hyatt and Jones have a long way to go. The reason I want Geo back is to take their minutes. Hyatt's defense last night (along with Paul) was not close to where they need to be. Caleb was terrific on Honor. Ron took 2 charges.
there was a play in the first half where Hyatt was juked three times in one move, never seen anything like it...guy toyed with him
 

Greene Rice FIG

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But we're not playing 1v1. Having strong on-ball defense is one element, having guys who know where they need to be defensively at all times is a different skill - one that takes time to build. It'll come with more reps. Our vets have the concepts down but don't always execute as well as we'd like - the newcomers are still figuring some things out.
We are if there is no screen
 

RUChoppin

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We are if there is no screen

Unless players are just standing around waiting for a pass, you're going to have to chase and get around screens/traffic somewhere on the court, and you're going to need to provide help defense and switch at times. And zone concepts are another thing entirely. Defense isn't purely guarding a ball handler 1v1 - the best defenders can do all of those things, but just being where you need to be is foundational to a good defense.
 

Greene Rice FIG

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Unless players are just standing around waiting for a pass, you're going to have to chase and get around screens/traffic somewhere on the court, and you're going to need to provide help defense and switch at times. And zone concepts are another thing entirely. Defense isn't purely guarding a ball handler 1v1 - the best defenders can do all of those things, but just being where you need to be is foundational to a good defense.
Believe me I get all that....but the discussion was best onball defender....said in a different way best lateral quickness.

Paul does lose his man (off the ball) way too much.

I know getting beat off the dribble isn't the only metric. Things are going south quickly right now when we are as our rotations are bad.
 

cyrock3

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I’m gonna enjoy this win, but I don’t see a path to the NCAAs unless we play out of our minds in the B1G schedule.
 
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RUChoppin

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Believe me I get all that....but the discussion was best onball defender....said in a different way best lateral quickness.

Paul does lose his man (off the ball) way too much.

I know getting beat off the dribble isn't the only metric. Things are going south quickly right now when we are as our rotations are bad.

Oh, sure, Paul doesn't have a great deal of lateral quickness, and it seems Miller does. But "worst lateral quickness" is different than the "weakest defensive player" label you gave him in that post. I don't think Mulcahy is our weakest defender at the moment - I'd put him ahead of Palmquist, Reiber, Hyatt, Jones, and Agee.
 
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bac2therac

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I think there is a lack of common sense viewing effort and energy and looking for others.

I 100%+ get your frustration with people (and more importantly) Pike giving Paul slack defensively. It is as if it is OK for Paul to have defensive lapses, but not Jaden or Aundre.

We both have seen 85+% of RU minutes either live or on TV. I get that Jaden looks the part offensively and has confidence. I understand the feeling that he will figure it out. I am missing something with Aundre right now. I expected him to be a good defensive player. He is anything but right now.

The lack of common sense BS is just wrong. I think it is a valid observation that Aundre and Jaden are very bad right now. I think it is a valid observation they aren't playing hard enough. I think it is very wise for Pike to demand they play better on defense. It is not OK for Jaden to be playing zone when the defense for the possession is full court zone press to man. They had an assistant coach put it on the clipboard because we screwed up so much at UMASS. I know he can score, but he needs to do more than that.

I totally get your frustration with Paul. His D is no different than Jaden and Aundre. Maybe the fact that we will dive on the floor makes it look better, but it is just lipstick.


Good luck wanting 35 minutes each from Paul and Caleb and hoping for strong perfect offensive nights from themwhile you fret about Hyatt and Jones not being up to standards defensively in their first handful of games as they ride pine
 
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Greene Rice FIG

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Oh, sure, Paul doesn't have a great deal of lateral quickness, and it seems Miller does. But "worst lateral quickness" is different than the "weakest defensive player" label you gave him in that post. I don't think Mulcahy is our weakest defender at the moment - I'd put him ahead of Palmquist, Reiber, Hyatt, Jones, and Agee.
I don't think I said he was our weakest defender. If I did I didn't mean it. Unfortunatey he is far from our wekest right now.
 

Greene Rice FIG

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Good luck wanting 35 minutes each from Paul and Caleb and hoping for strong perfect offensive nights from themwhile you fret about Hyatt and Jones not being up to standards defensively in their first handful of games as they ride pine
That is exactly why I am very bearish about our season going forward.

I don't want Paul and Caleb playing 35 minutes, but unfortunately today, even with Geo, it is our best lineup most nights.

I have ZERO trust in Hyatt down the stretch on defense. He has made countless mistakes in big spots already. I have even less in Jaden.

It is only December 2nd, things can change. Right now we are a 5-15ish type of B1G team. Jaden and Aundre playing better and taking minutes from Paul and Caleb would be wonderful. Right now I don't see it making us any better.
 

RUinOhio

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what about Caleb being in there at the end? Clemson kept fouling him and he went like 5 for 10 I think....that will kill RU in closer games and was a big factor the other night when he missed the front end
 

Scarlet Blind

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I know basketball isn't played in a duo scenario of playing minutes together, but you can see the (Paul,Caleb) duo has true chemistry between the 2 in the backcourt, even in 2019-20 as backups they liked being on the same court together, I would love to see (Geo,Jalen) duo when Geo gets healthy, Geo becomes a mentor to Jalen as 2nd teamers. (RHJ, Jaden) duo has explosive offense feel to it as first team forwards, and (Mag,Hyatt) duo as 2nd team forwards going forward. Cliff/Agee at 5. Mag is swapping 2/3 until Geo gets healthy. I think this will be the most effective way to maximize the roster abd develop on court chemistry going forward in rotations.
 
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RUsojo

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That is exactly why I am very bearish about our season going forward.

I don't want Paul and Caleb playing 35 minutes, but unfortunately today, even with Geo, it is our best lineup most nights.

I have ZERO trust in Hyatt down the stretch on defense. He has made countless mistakes in big spots already. I have even less in Jaden.

It is only December 2nd, things can change. Right now we are a 5-15ish type of B1G team. Jaden and Aundre playing better and taking minutes from Paul and Caleb would be wonderful. Right now I don't see it making us any better.
Disagree on this personnel evaluation completely.
 
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zebnatto

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But this didn't bear out in reality. Jones had 21 minutes against Clemson, and scored 4 points on 2/9 shooting (0/4) from the perimeter. He's played 19 and 20 minutes the last two games, and is 1/9 from the arc.

Mulcahy is not close to our best on-ball defender, but he rarely blows an assignment. He is generally where he needs to be, but gets beaten by better offensive players. The knock on our newcomers is usually when they have not been where they need to be - whether that's Hyatt, Jones, or Agee. That will come with more game reps, and Jones looked better against Clemson than he has in prior games.
Paul is a very good defensive clogger and help defender but that also sometimes keeps him from closing out.
 

RUChoppin

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Paul is a very good defensive clogger and help defender but that also sometimes keeps him from closing out.

Sometimes - but a) he's generally not tasked with guarding deep-threat guards (so it's less of a problem), and b) he hasn't let up a ton of made threes because he dropped down (partly because the guys he's been on haven't been deep threats)
 
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zebnatto

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Sometimes - but a) he's generally not tasked with guarding deep-threat guards (so it's less of a problem), and b) he hasn't let up a ton of made threes because he dropped down (partly because the guys he's been on haven't been deep threats)

Maybe your right but I saw it quite a bit last year.