Gavin needs more touches…
- Thread starter SBP
- Start date
I'll flip it back to you......below is the post I was responding to and you can tell me that this is just a fair type of discussion point on rotations and not a histrionic complaint.....especially given the facts and stats I presented for Gavin who is currently averaging 22mpg and is 2nd in shot attempts....and likely at the top in attempts per 36. To me this all just smells of people complaining about Pike not knowing what he is doing....reading between the lines people are essentially saying that Pike is good enough to get RU in a position to secure these highly ranked recruits yet not good enough to coach them. Even your post points out your lack of trust in the coach. Sorry, but I'm not on board with this at all. Gavin has work to do on the defensive side of the ball and his offensive efficiency is still very much also a work in progress. He's already starter minutes and starter level shot attempts....he needs to progress further before he also gets the ball even more.....it's likely Pike realizes this and fans are just being overly impatient with their new toy.
I’ll do my best to respond to each point:
- Gavin’s usage has clearly changed. While technically his minutes may be the same, the last 2-3 games he is not playing in the critical stretches. It doesn’t make sense for him not to get off the bench in the first 5+ minutes of each half. And his global minutes are deceiving because many have come in garbage time that won’t exist once league play arrives.
- Forget the total number of shots Gavin has taken so far this year. There is a trend over the last 4 games - 11, 9, 8, 5 shots. Now I get that some of it might be getting a better feel for the game, and that’s good, but burying him in the corner is a waste if we’re not doing anything to get him open shots. We might disagree — and that’s all good because I could be wrong — but IMO the kid needs to be a volume shooter for us to win against real competition.
- Our guards love to put their heads down and drive to the rim. It leads to mixed results and a lot of blown layups. I don’t want them to stop altogether, but they need to realize one of the main reasons Gavin is stuck in the corner is that the defense will collapse on penetration and that will open him up. As someone else mentioned, I don’t think one guard all year has driven and kicked it out to Gavin for a 3. That should be a staple in the offense.
- Gavin does need to improve on defense but he can’t learn on the bench. When we’re struggling to score — and it happens almost every game — I’d rather sacrifice a little on the defensive end to kick start the offense with Gavin.
Maybe Gavin plays 20+ on Saturday, scores 10-12 pts and we win. In that case, I might be wrong. Once again, all good with me.
- Gavin’s usage has clearly changed. While technically his minutes may be the same, the last 2-3 games he is not playing in the critical stretches. It doesn’t make sense for him not to get off the bench in the first 5+ minutes of each half. And his global minutes are deceiving because many have come in garbage time that won’t exist once league play arrives.
- Forget the total number of shots Gavin has taken so far this year. There is a trend over the last 4 games - 11, 9, 8, 5 shots. Now I get that some of it might be getting a better feel for the game, and that’s good, but burying him in the corner is a waste if we’re not doing anything to get him open shots. We might disagree — and that’s all good because I could be wrong — but IMO the kid needs to be a volume shooter for us to win against real competition.
- Our guards love to put their heads down and drive to the rim. It leads to mixed results and a lot of blown layups. I don’t want them to stop altogether, but they need to realize one of the main reasons Gavin is stuck in the corner is that the defense will collapse on penetration and that will open him up. As someone else mentioned, I don’t think one guard all year has driven and kicked it out to Gavin for a 3. That should be a staple in the offense.
- Gavin does need to improve on defense but he can’t learn on the bench. When we’re struggling to score — and it happens almost every game — I’d rather sacrifice a little on the defensive end to kick start the offense with Gavin.
Maybe Gavin plays 20+ on Saturday, scores 10-12 pts and we win. In that case, I might be wrong. Once again, all good with me.
Absolutely nailed it.
I'll keep saying it. Gavin isn't just a spot up shooter. Get him moving with off ball screens or swing it quickly with ball reversals. Even if Gavin isn't open for the 3, the defenders will be moving and he has shown that in that scenario he gets into the lane with ease. He can get all the way to the rim, top and hit in mid range, or drive to dish. He has already penetrated to the foul line and dumped it off for an easy bucket to the block multiple times.
Even if the high ball screens aren't working that well, it gets the defense moving and opens up the lane for penetration. There was a play where Cliff started to come up for a ball screen and before he even got there the guard blew by his man and got to the rim. If Cliff stayed in the low block, that lane isn't there. Guard didn't need the screen. He just needed the space
It's strange how often he uses it. Sometimes it's appropriate, but it's at sooooo many posts. Some are maybe something you disagree with but it's a reasonable point. Save it for the truly terrible takes or it loses its impact
Bro you are spot on! It almost feels like he’s getting “froze out” as we used to say. It’s silly really.. no drive and kick , he’s open so many times. He better play a lot against Illini and score in high double figures or we lose
I think he reserves it for posts where you don't explicitly state that Gavin is the second coming of Jesus Christ
Pike has to figure out how to get Gavin looks or he’ll be gone after this year, straight up.
I have no idea what the point is in recruiting a player like him to basically be another Palmquist.
I have no idea what the point is in recruiting a player like him to basically be another Palmquist.
For every point he scores he give it up on defensive end. The offense druels when Oskar or Gavin are guarding them
Lol...now do every other guard
Not only is his defense bad but he doesn’t rebound either. He really has done nothing but shoot well. Not sure how he was rated five stars. I think he will be good down the line just clearly not ready to defend in this conference
IMO he still looks very tentative offensively. He is not very athletic and doesn’t appear yet to be able to create his own shot. I still think the college game is still too fast for him
I think he can take ball to the basket for a score and spot up. He doesn’t seem like a back to the basket type player. He needs more mins because he’s our only pure shooter and has length.
GO RU
He is our best offensive player easily
Yes he is. He is the only player who can get decent looks, and the only player who looks like he knows what he is doing on offense. I would rather lose badly starting Gavin and have him play 35 minutes and be the focal point of the offense than have Simpson’s wild drives to the basket, Hyatt’s super inefficient shots and horrible ball handling and Cliff’s fall away one handed flings be our offense.
Absolutely
He’s by far the most skilled offensive player and it is criminal that Pike hasn’t bothered trying to feature him yet. With that said, he is soft on D and rebounding. Not a “tough” player yet that realizes what it takes to win at this level.
The kid is 6’8” with an excellent 3 pt shot, nice mid range game,decent handle, sees what’s developing on floor. Yes, there will be growing pains, but TODAY he’s better than Andre.
Who besides maybe Austin Williams was tough today????? We were slapped around like a redheaded stepchild today.
he is a freshmen, like J Mike...both possess something most others do not...the problem is as freshmen they are now being judged as harshly as 4 and 5 year players which isnt fair
Great point about our guards not kicking the ball out for open threes on drives. We are not seeing that. When a guard on this team drives they put their head down and out a shot up. No thought of a kick out or a dish to Cliff for a dunk. The list of things this team performs poorly at is unfortunately longer than the list of what they excel at. Looking like a long year.
Griffiths 1 reb in 19min
Hyatt 1 reb in 27min
Fernandes 1 reb in 28min
Woolf 2 reb in 24 min
Simpson 2 reb in 22 min
Now which of them are shooting well or playing great defense?
At least Gavin has the shooting and scoring ability.
If you think any of those guys are defensive liabilities compared to Gavin and Oskar than you don’t know what you are watching. As soon as either of those guys come in the offense targets whoever they are guarding. They are both 6’8”. You would expect them to rebound more than Noah and Simpson.
Don’t get me wrong. I want him to play big minutes and be featured of offense, but don’t assume we’ll immediately be a better team.
The painful reality is Gavin shouldnt get any touches because he shouldnt play.
His defense is a joke. When Shannon dribbled at him he watched him and then tapped him for a foul as he went by.
Twice Gavin was in a position to take a charge and he didnt have the guts too.
People dont want to hear this but it is true.
His defense is a joke. When Shannon dribbled at him he watched him and then tapped him for a foul as he went by.
Twice Gavin was in a position to take a charge and he didnt have the guts too.
People dont want to hear this but it is true.
Shannon had his way with everyone on our team
I’ll trade that for more offense any day. Ya got “Big Cliff” to protect the rim 👍😂
Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me
I wouldn’t say guts. I think that’s a little unfair. He just doesn’t know how to use his body yet imo. I wouldn’t write him off he’s young. I’ve already seen improvement it’s just gonna take time.
I generally refrain from criticizing Pike on rotations, but his handling of Gavin is baffling.
This is an offensively challenged team. We’re not good enough on D to beat teams if we can’t even put up 60, and limiting Gavin’s minutes seems like a good way to make sure we don’t put up 60.
This is an offensively challenged team. We’re not good enough on D to beat teams if we can’t even put up 60, and limiting Gavin’s minutes seems like a good way to make sure we don’t put up 60.
i'm beginning to suspect that Gavin isn't gonna be a one-and-done guy.
It’s a scale with pros and cons.
Are any of them offensive assets like GG could be?
Is their defense and “rebounding”adequately compensating for their defensive improvement over Gavin or Oskar?
Is the other team not salivating when Woolf is on offense?
Or when Hyatt is dribbling the ball through the floor and chucking up shoots?
Or when Simpson, Davis and Fernandes are crashing to the rim and getting blocked or missing a low percentage contested layup?
THIS!!!! Even if he is lacking in other areas we desperately need his offense right now. For example, Cliff/JMike are such a liabilities on offense wouldn't it be good to have somebody offset that? Cliff/JMike both great defensively - where Gavin is not. Seems to me you would want to have a balance - not what Pike is doing which is that every player must buy in defensively. That's great in theory, but you have to put together puzzle pieces here that have both positive and negative attributes - the perfect player doesn't exist on this team - Pike's job is to fit these pieces together. 100% Gavin should be seeing more minutes as what he is as a player right now!
He has been in this program a few months.
I am not writing him off, but right now he isnt ready.
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