Consider that A) he will be in better shape and more explosive in college B) he will receive better coaching C) he will rarely guard opposing point guards and primary ball handlers like it sounds like he did last night, and D) St Peters has some good players, Simon is a 4 star football player and Thiele is a D1 basketball player
Harper at RAC Today Thurs
- Thread starter vascosg
- Start date
When scouting a HS player, it is important that
They are clearly one of the best kids on the court. Do they stand out?
How is the competition? Is it good enough to see if the game would translate to a higher level?
Does the player look like he will be able to guard the position he is at?
Harper will most likely be seen as a wing with his skill set. A third guard, etc.
I think he checks two boxes, with the last one depending on if he can lose 10 pounds. Right now, he will be asked to guard a wing/sf. I think he could do that.
I think Harper Jr is going to be a good, complimentary player for RU. I believe he is the sleeper of this class.
We will see how it shakes out.
They are clearly one of the best kids on the court. Do they stand out?
How is the competition? Is it good enough to see if the game would translate to a higher level?
Does the player look like he will be able to guard the position he is at?
Harper will most likely be seen as a wing with his skill set. A third guard, etc.
I think he checks two boxes, with the last one depending on if he can lose 10 pounds. Right now, he will be asked to guard a wing/sf. I think he could do that.
I think Harper Jr is going to be a good, complimentary player for RU. I believe he is the sleeper of this class.
We will see how it shakes out.
As things stand now, Harper will be a deep bench player as a true freshman. He's definitely a WF (or 3rd guard), and at that spot we've got Thiam (who will play 25+ mpg based on defense alone), plus Kiss and Mathis who are both "big" guards and can back up Thiam.
So I don't think we will "need" Harper next year all that much -- unless he's a lights-out 3-point shooter, in which case all bets are off. Short of that, he's a complimentary bench player next year, and can be groomed as the WF of the future if he can reshape his body and increase his strength/speed/quickness.
So I don't think we will "need" Harper next year all that much -- unless he's a lights-out 3-point shooter, in which case all bets are off. Short of that, he's a complimentary bench player next year, and can be groomed as the WF of the future if he can reshape his body and increase his strength/speed/quickness.
For a non big to redshirt at Rutgers is an absolute TERRIBLE sign.
Pikiell is in DEEP trouble if we are recruiting non 7 footers that need a redshirt.
We all want Pikiell to succeed. Me more than most. I love his attitude and the way his team plays the game. So far his talent evaluation has been real bad.
At some point we have to ask ourselves are these assistant coaches doing an adequate job. The narrative is we have a great staff. Coaching is very good, roster formation bad.
Let’s hope Harper Jr. gets in shape and can stay in front of people ASAP. I don’t want a redshirt. Especially with the advent of grad transfers.
Pikiell is in DEEP trouble if we are recruiting non 7 footers that need a redshirt.
We all want Pikiell to succeed. Me more than most. I love his attitude and the way his team plays the game. So far his talent evaluation has been real bad.
At some point we have to ask ourselves are these assistant coaches doing an adequate job. The narrative is we have a great staff. Coaching is very good, roster formation bad.
Let’s hope Harper Jr. gets in shape and can stay in front of people ASAP. I don’t want a redshirt. Especially with the advent of grad transfers.
Closing the deal in recruiting is very difficult for Rutgers based on the won/loss record for decades.As such Rutgers has to take players not highly recruited with the hopes that a couple step up after player development.Such a strategy isn't likely to show dramatic improvement against B1G competition in the short term.Dire need for more shooters/scorers to complement the defense and rebounding improvement under Pikiell.
I have no inside information, but I don't get the sense Harper will redshirt. He might not be the first or second guy off the bench, but with the depth Pikiell should have next season, as opposed to this--I think he'll get some minutes as a spot up shooter and at the free throw line. You never know though. Lots of time between now and November.
On this team if he isn't good enough to help in Year 1 I'd find it doubtful he makes an impact year 2-5.
I suspect Harper does not redshirt, but guys like Bo Ryan (a pretty darn good coach) had success red-shirting some non-big men, who ended up starting later in their careers -- Zak Showalter and Ryan Evans come to mind and there were probably a couple of others.
I think it's just responsible program building vs a player not being able to help or not being good enough.....too many narratives being tossed around as facts, clearly we've seen enough of them to be wrong when discussing how we would be behind because of CJ Gettys or Nigel Johnson departing and Baker showed that he can play at this level.
Myles Johnson, even off a knee injury as a JR in HS, could have helped with some potential scoring punch, but there is a long term goal of wasting a kids freshman season vs not....if there is a grad transfer landed at the SF, would we still be stating that Harper shouldn't Redshirt....?? what if Aundre Hyatt falls into RU's lap and becomes a bonafide SF....should we wisely redshirt Harper or make him play "because it justifies the ship"??
Myles Johnson, even off a knee injury as a JR in HS, could have helped with some potential scoring punch, but there is a long term goal of wasting a kids freshman season vs not....if there is a grad transfer landed at the SF, would we still be stating that Harper shouldn't Redshirt....?? what if Aundre Hyatt falls into RU's lap and becomes a bonafide SF....should we wisely redshirt Harper or make him play "because it justifies the ship"??
When I spoke with Coach he was very excited about Harper, Mathis and Carter. I absolutely cannot see him being a red shirt. Too many people are being way too picky. He is doing well and I have seen him play several times.
Koenig, Dekker, Trevon Jackson and Gasser aren't on our roster. Ben Brust was a 6'1''SR who played 35 MPG...cant say I remember him.
Zac played year 1 and RS Year 2
We will beginning Year 3 and we are saying that we are doomed if Sanders doesn't come back. In those 3 years we have 7 B1G wins. That says volumes about the scholarship players we have. We shouldn't be in a position where we are going JUCO and grad transfer to fill a roster in Year 3. There is a natural progression that we should be on and we aren't remotely close.
Answering your question....yes we should land that grad transfer if Harper Jr. isn't ready. The big issue is that Issa or another player isn't the one holding Harper Jr. minutes back.
I have no idea if Harper will or should redshirt. We went thru this same discussion before the season about whether a guy should redshirt or not.
There are many here who claimed that if a Non-Center redshirts then it means he will never contribute much to the program.....I don't understand that logic because several posters here named MANY players ( non-Centers/non-injured) from other programs that redshirted and MANY coaches that regularly redshirt Freshmen......Mike Brey comes to mind.
If a talented skinny guy needs to bulk up....you redshirt him.
If a talented overweight guy needs to get in better shape....you redshirt him.
If you have a deep roster at a guys position.....you redshirt him.
There are many here who claimed that if a Non-Center redshirts then it means he will never contribute much to the program.....I don't understand that logic because several posters here named MANY players ( non-Centers/non-injured) from other programs that redshirted and MANY coaches that regularly redshirt Freshmen......Mike Brey comes to mind.
If a talented skinny guy needs to bulk up....you redshirt him.
If a talented overweight guy needs to get in better shape....you redshirt him.
If you have a deep roster at a guys position.....you redshirt him.
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This always drives me a little nuts. Pikiell started mid March 2 years ago. I've always contended the first class for a coach shouldn't be counted. He had 1 full recruiting cycle going into this year. Last year he got Baker, Doucore, Souf (oof). And then 2 guys who didn't play - Johnson and Kiss.
Let's see how everyone works out and let's see how the new guys contribute.
Way too early to say we shouldn't be in 'this' position. And we are likely going to have to add a JUCO/Grad transfer to fill gaps going forward for a couple of years - maybe longer. And for depth or to fill a gap. It takes time to develop the new guys, build depth, balance classes.
Pikiells recruits:
Geo Baker, CJ Gettys, Montez Mathis, Shaq Carter, Souf Mensah, Matt Bullock, Montez Mathis, Harper Jr, Myles Johnson, Eugene Omoyuri, Mamadou Doucoure,Candido Sa, Peter Kiss, Luke Nathan.
Looking at how he is at identifying talent, you can view those names.
It's a rebuild, and Pikiell nor any coach is not looked to be perfect. He will have to do a little better though to really push the program over where people want it to be. Pikiell did not recruit Issa, but he did recruit someone who will compete with Issa for minutes in Peter Kiss. Just like choppin said, you redshirt based on those criteria he listed. Harper Jr taking a redshirt(total speculation without a ton of basis) if he had to would not be a terrible thing.
It all depends on what kind of guard he gets if Sanders leaves.
Agree 100%. However the mistake that was made, in my opinion, was to not complete rebuild.
Pikiell went for the 50/50 and now we start Year 3 with their being no light at the end of the tunnel.
How can you go full rebuild at Rutgers? How can you let everyone transfer, go from 7 wins to say... 5 and expect to recruit off of that? I see a light in the future... but I also think it won't happen next year and is at least 2 years off. But had there been a complete rebuild where Mike and Corey and maybe Deshawn transfer and your playing walk-ons in year one... And you win 5 games... how do you recruit off of that? He can recruit off of these last 3 games...
What exactly do you mean by no light at the end of the tunnel?
There is some good young talent, a few guys with a lot of game experience and good incoming players and a transfer.
The 2019 class will bring in a few more good players.
There is zero debate on that.
Are we on path for Year 6 or 7 to be anything but what we are now?
I don’t see it. I’d love to. The new 5 guys have to be a good class. If they are anything like the 1st 2 it is probably curtains.
Sorry. B1G is a very good conference. What we do have is a coaching staff that gets players to buy in defensively. That means a lot to me. Talent.....I really don’t see it.
Consider new 5
Mathis——I am excited to see
Kiss—-transfer from A bad MAC with bad shooting metrics
Johnson—-not good enough to play over Doorson, Duke and Sa (sorry)
Carter—JUCO who isn’t even starting. I hear NJH explanation, but it raises flags to me
Harper—-people talking redshirt
Hopefully 3-4 guys will surprise me
He was gushing about Souf a year ago too. What do you expect a coach to say about any of the kids that he just signed?
One step at a time. Hiring a guy from Stony Brook was never going to be an instant fix. The realistic hope is that the 17 and 18 classes (and some coaching up) will move the talent level from 14th to 10th in the B1G. Then it’s time for the 19 and 20 classes to climb from 10th to, say, 6th or 7th. On to 2020 ... when things should start to get respectable.
You cannot be serious. Pitt did a complete rebuild and after two years, their program is garbage, they fired their coach and have to pay the coach million$!
Exactly. Pitt did a complete rebuild and the result is their program is garbage, HC is fired and he left with a HUGE check in his pocket. Total rebuilds are no bueno.
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Perhaps their issue is the coach.
We are entering Year 3 and are “doomed” if Corey doesn’t come back. We have no PG on the roster.
Pure speculation, but if Shoes wasn’t retained we’d have a PG on the roster and wouldn’t be dependent on Sanders.
How many people would be OK when Pikiell was hired that entering Year 3 we would be dependent on Sanders staying to not have a terrible year 3 AND we’d have 3 and 3 B1G wins in his 2 years.
We are entering Year 3 and are “doomed” if Corey doesn’t come back. We have no PG on the roster.
Pure speculation, but if Shoes wasn’t retained we’d have a PG on the roster and wouldn’t be dependent on Sanders.
How many people would be OK when Pikiell was hired that entering Year 3 we would be dependent on Sanders staying to not have a terrible year 3 AND we’d have 3 and 3 B1G wins in his 2 years.
I think you are underestimating how impossible it would have been to recruit coming off Jordan like seasons with a no name coach. No way Pike lands a guy like Mathis in that scenario.
The only thing I agree with in your post is that it is pure speculation on your part that a total rebuild would result in more talent here. Pitt did a total rebuild and in two years their program is in a HUGE hole that they may never get out of.
It’s rather interesting that one week after our impressive and inspired B1G tournament run, you have an over the top doom regarding our program. Seriously, don’t worry so much and watch how Pike brings us to consistently competitive in the B1G over the next few years. Pike is the real deal.
GRF, I think you are quite knowledgeable but at times I just don't get your posts. Why are you speculating so much doom for the program? Coach is working as hard as anyone to improve our team. I have spoken with him many times. Trust me he knows exactly what he is doing. He has a plan. You are wrong at times like when you said the Ridge coach was better than Phil Colicchio of Linden and that Ridge would beat Linden. Well Linden has beaten Ridge 3 or 4 times in the state tournament and this year beat them by 45 (79-34). You are not perfect . We are all wrong at times. I would not have wanted to have a few more 7-25 seasons. We are moving forward.
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